New printing pod feature

[Lilalaunekuh]

I think most of us started a discussion about what´s good or bad about the new printing pod feature.

So why not collect your ideas/opinions without us all spamming the patch thread

 

If you got an other ideas for when/what/... should be available please tell me so I would be able to add it quickly

 

So the last hotfix (306670) changed something about how the printing pod sends out "Care Packages":

• Some balance changes to the portal Care Packages
• Some portal Care Packages are now gated by discovery, others have had their minimum cycle altered

 

This means the current system is unlocked by the cycle we reached and a discovery condition.

(If I think of the different playstyles I am not sure if that is the best option. Some have a rocket on cycle 100 and some players don´t have one cycle 1000 ...)

 

The current (hopefully) complete list of care packages available: (Thanks to SakuraKoi)

Spoiler

• Sandstone 1000 kg (new!)
• Dirt 500 kg (new!)
• Algae 500 kg (no change)
• Oxylite 100 kg (no change)
• Water 2000 kg (no change)
• Sand 3000 kg (no change)
• Coal 3000 kg (no change)
• Fertilizer 3000 kg (new!)
• Ice 4000 kg, Cycle 12 (no change)
• Copper 2000 kg, Cycle 12, needs to be discovered (-1000 kg, discovery condition) 
• Gold Amalgam 2000 kg, Cycle 12, needs to be discovered (new!)
• Refined Copper 400 kg, Cycle 24, needs to be discovered (new!)
• Refined Iron 400 kg, Cycle 24, needs to be discovered (new!)
• Lime 150 kg, Cycle 48, needs to be discovered (-350 kg, discovery condition)
• Plastic 500 kg, Cycle 48, needs to be discovered (new!)
• Glass 200 kg, Cycle 48, needs to be discovered (new!)
• Steel 100 kg, Cycle 48, needs to be discovered (-400kg, discovery condition)
• 3 Flower Seeds (Bluff Briar or Mirth Leaf or Jumping Joya) (no change)
• 1 Mushroom Seed (no change)
• 2 Blossom Seeds (no change)
• 1 Wheezeworth Seed, Cycle 24 (cycle condition) 
• 5 kg Nutrient Bars (4000 kcal) (no change)
• 6 kg Muckroot (4800 kcal) (no change)
• 3 kg Omelette, Cycle 6 (new!)
• 3 kg Bristle Berry, Cycle 12 (new!)
• 3 kg Fried Mushroom, Cycle 24 (new!)
• 3 kg BBQ, Cycle 48 (new cycle condition)
• 1 Baby Critter (Nymph, Hatchling, Drecko (24), Mole (24), Puft, Slickster (12)) (new cycle condition)
• 8 Pacu, Cycle 24 (new cycle condition)
• 3 Eggs (Nymph, Hatchling, Drecko (24), Mole (48), Puft, Slickster (48)) (new cycle condition)
• 3 Vitamin Supplement
• 1 Snazzy Suit

Own additions:

• 1 Vole pup
• 3 Shove vole eggs

 

[KittenIsAGeek]

I rather like how it is right now. ... although, I do have 3 pufts floating around my base that I really need to move into a corral at some point.

[Giltirn]

I really like the idea but it makes more sense for it to just be restricted to biological entities. I really like the idea of having lore buildings to find to unlock new species as it adds a nice element of exploration. While it would also be fun to take samples to obtain DNA blueprints, which seems more realistic, I would not like to get stuck in a situation where an animal species dies out and I haven't taken a sample.

[Nitroturtle]

The fact that you can recover lost critters is by far the best part of the feature IMO.  Every single game I end up realizing that at least one of my critters has become extinct accidently.  I couldn't care less about the other stuff, because I never seem to have much of a shortage of anything else.  I suppose it's nice to have some use for the printing pod when I have no need for extra dupes.

[Lilalaunekuh]

29 minutes ago, KittenIsAGeek said:

I rather like how it is right now. ...

Does it mean you like the chance for something advaned to appear early, like a slickster on cycle 3 or refined metals without any downside ?

(Would render the rock crusher for metals a bit obsolete and we don´t want to talk about smooth hatches. This eliminates a couple challenges of the early game.)

Right now the printing pod makes cargo rockets feel useless and slow.

Just want to clarify what you like about the current system.

 

[KittenIsAGeek]

So far, its offered me mostly stuff like seeds, critters, etc.  It was nice getting two wheezewart seeds around cycle 30.   I had reached an ice biome, but hadn't dug into it yet and that saved me the effort until later.  Also, you're going to want your rock crusher anyway.  I haven't been offered refined metals, but it appears that you get things offered in chunks of 500kg -- which will build a couple items, but it isn't game changing.  I've been offered 3 vitamin chews 5 times, which is great, because I am playing on infectious and don't have a balm lily farm set up yet. Once I was offered 8000kcal of bbq that really hit the spot.  In 80 cycles, I've only been offered minerals/metals/etc twice.  Once was algae and I can't remember the other.

Sometimes the really weird stuff is great, especially for new players, because they'll see it and wonder, "This is great! How can I get more??"  Anyway, like I said, nothing has been game-changing.  You have to remember that this is a completely random once every 4 cycles event.  If the frequency were higher, or the items offered substantially greater, then I might be concerned.   

[lilibat]

Maybe add a checkbox to the custom game as to whether you want gifts staggered by level or not. 

[lunazone]

I don't really like how you can print glass and steel, it kind of removes the challenge and purpose of producing them in the first place.

[camelot]

50 minutes ago, Lilalaunekuh said:

Does it mean you like the chance for something advaned to appear early, like a slickster on cycle 3 or refined metals without any downside ?

(Would render the rock crusher for metals a bit obsolete and we don´t want to talk about smooth hatches. This eliminates a couple challenges of the early game.)

Right now the printing pod makes cargo rockets feel useless and slow.

Just want to clarify what you like about the current system.

 

I think Klei should adjust the quantity and maybe categorize the resources a bit. Something like:

• Common: 500-1000kg. 87% chance to get
• Rare: 100kg maximum. 10% chance to get
• Super rare: trace amount. 3% to get. Need to unlock by reading specific ruin log files.

Something like steel, refine metals, dirt, plastic, glass... could be categorized as rare and any space-only resources could be categorized as super rare

[KittenIsAGeek]

3 minutes ago, gary9996 said:

I don't really like how you can print glass and steel, it kind of removes the challenge and purpose of producing them in the first place.

How often have you had either of these elements get printed in your current map?  What cycle are you on, and how much did you receive per print?  I'm curious, because 500kg of glass is 10 aero pots (not game changing) or 5 window tiles (enough for an early bristle farm, but again, not game changing).  And 500kg of steel is equally frustrating.  Enough for a couple of items, but hardly enough to remove the purpose of producing them.  As of cycle 80, I haven't seen either of these two elements.

[Lilalaunekuh]

42 minutes ago, KittenIsAGeek said:

It was nice getting two wheezewart seeds around cycle 30.

I liked the challenges provided by the at least in the early game limited wheezewort seeds.

The question was do I really need to keep that cold biome frozen, or do I need the cooling power inside my base ?

 

42 minutes ago, KittenIsAGeek said:

Also, you're going to want your rock crusher anyway.

The first smart battery provides a huge benefit for a new colony. So all I want early would be ~300kg refined metal.

Creating refined metals:

Spoiler

So here are our available options to get some refined metal:

1) Rock granulator- wastes some resources

2) Metal refinery - will take much more time and effort to get it running if your going for your first refined metal

3) Smooth hatch - luck and/or some wastes resources to increase the chance for one

4) Metal volcano - dealing with the heat and finding one

5) Printing pod - opportunity cost of not taking something else ...

 

With limited ores it was a challenge for me to not waste anything and go for solution 2.

But in my last base (ravanging hunger + mouth breather ...) building a rock granulator to crush 500kg ore was close to necessary. Just so I was able to build a smart battery and the automation wire to control my generator.

Keep in mind you need an additional research to build a rock granulator.

 

42 minutes ago, KittenIsAGeek said:

Sometimes the really weird stuff is great

Sure, that´s a reason I started this discussion. But like garry9996 said there are many challenges that will just be removed by the right blueprint. (500kg glass early is a huge benefit if you want to farm some bristle blossom around your printing pod ...)

But if your able to print all resources with up to 4t every 3 cycles (yeah I saw 4t) that makes cargo rockets even less attractive ...

 

 

and any space-only resources could be categorized as super rare

I hope at least something stays space-only ...

[KittenIsAGeek]

1 minute ago, Lilalaunekuh said:

I liked the challenges provided by the at least in the early game limited wheezewort seeds.

The question was do I really need to keep that cold biome frozen, or do I need the cooling power inside my base ?

 

The first smart battery provides a huge benefit for a new colony.

Creating refined metal:

  Reveal hidden contents

So here are our available options to get some refined metal:

1) Rock granulator- wastes some resources

2) Metal refinery - will take much more time and effort to get it running if your going for your first refined metal

3) Smooth hatch - luck and/or some wastes resources to increase the chance for one

4) Metal volcano - dealing with the heat and finding one

5) Printing pod - opportunity cost of not taking something else ...

 

With limited ores it was a challenge for me to not waste anything and go for solution 2.

But in my last base (ravanging hunger + mouth breather ...) building a rock granulator to crush 500kg ore was close to necessary. Just so I was able to build a smart battery and the automation wire to control my generator.

Keep in mind you need an additional research to build a rock granulator.

Sure, that´s a reason I started this discussion. But like garry9996 said there are many challenges that will just be removed by the right blueprint. (500kg glass early is a huge benefit if you want to farm some bristle blossom around your printing pod ...)

But if your able to print all resources with up to 4t every 3 cycles (yeah I saw 4t) that makes cargo rockets even less attractive ...

You have some valid points, but I would like to point out that unless you're using your rock granulator on continuous...

Spoiler

.. the wasted resources aren't really an issue.  Most maps have plenty of copper in the starting biome, and the last 4 maps I've played have also had iron accessible without having to open up chambers of chlorine or hydrogen and without having to dig through abyssalite.  Additionally, almost every map has a metal geyser of some sort. 

The first smart battery requires 200kg of refined metals, which I routinely have (via rock crusher!) by cycle 15 to 20, at which point I upgrade from hamster wheels to coal generators.  Does 500kg of refined metals make it easier? Sure.. but I think you're making a bigger deal out of it than it really is.  

I can see where you're coming from, but I don't share the same view.  Personally, I feel that if you don't want to use something, then don't use it.  The printer has the option to 'reject all,' after all.  A new player isn't going to get as much benefit off these printed resources as a more experienced player.  Glass tiles? Gotta research to the 5th tier first.  Smart batteries? 3rd tier.  I often have a rock crusher built before I've even unlocked my super computer.

[Lilalaunekuh]

11 minutes ago, KittenIsAGeek said:

I can see where you're coming from, but I don't share the same view. 

That´s a reason I love to discuse with you

 

14 minutes ago, KittenIsAGeek said:

Most maps ... I've played have also had iron accessible without having to open up chambers of chlorine or hydrogen

That´s my preferred solution since iron ore is unlimited, but copper ore is still finite

 

16 minutes ago, KittenIsAGeek said:

Glass tiles? Gotta research to the 5th tier first.

Totally missed that

[NonFat]

I got a wheezewort before cycle 30 from the printer

 

I was elated to get it... but it is too op imo

 

also, omg the crashes atm!!!

[KittenIsAGeek]

6 minutes ago, NonFat said:

I got a wheezewort before cycle 30 from the printer

I was elated to get it... but it is too op imo

also, omg the crashes atm!!!

One wheezewart? OP?  Heh.  If you say so.  I completely disagree.  Useful? Yes.  OP?  No.  With a well-designed base you can easily get to cycle 100 without doing anything thermal.   With a poorly designed one, a single wheezewart isn't going to make a difference.

And.. I played for 6 hours straight without a single crash.  If you're crashing, submit a bug report.

[badgamer123]

the critter egg should stay for free coz most of the time shrine bug die off too easy,also some pacu dying in hot/cold water pool etc I think they try to fix the critter die out randomly by giving you free critter so you stop worrying the die off somewhere due to u not recuse them

[Christophlette]

I'm pretty happy with the way it works now. The only thing I'm seeing is an enormous amount of "wild" critters in a base with 1000+ cycle if you pick the eggs every time. Like 200 wild pacus that die every 25 cycle and produce free meat without any input of resources.

[Yunru]

I'm fine with it as is mechanically, but thematically wish it'd only print organics (so seeds, critters, stuff like dirt and algae).

[Craigjw]

Pacu's are potentially an issue, as they are not truly self sustaining in the wild, they do die off without intervention and would go extinct of their own accord.

[Flydo]

Just now, Craigjw said:

Pacu's are potentially an issue, as they are not truly self sustaining in the wild, they do die off without intervention and would go extinct of their own accord.

Don't have wild pacu issue extinct in my base (cycle 800) but have wild slickster and wild hatch extinction

[Christophlette]

1 minute ago, Craigjw said:

Pacu's are potentially an issue, as they are not truly self sustaining in the wild, they do die off without intervention and would go extinct of their own accord.

They die if they are in a pool of water that is changing temperature OR because you're unlucky and get a gulp fish with 1% in a pool of 70°C water.

[Craigjw]

I'm a little against advanced materials being introduced into the gameplay via the printing pod too early.  If I received plastic on turn 10, that would change everything, I wouldn't have to venture into the oil biome and build a plastic press, the urgency for this would cease to be.

3 minutes ago, Christophlette said:

They die if they are in a pool of water that is changing temperature OR because you're unlucky and get a gulp fish with 1% in a pool of 70°C water.

Not true at all.

I have pools, untouched at ~30c which used to have pacu's in, but now, they only contain egg shells and nothing more.  How did they die and how did the egg shells get there?

[Christophlette]

5 minutes ago, Craigjw said:

Not true at all.

I have pools, untouched at ~30c which used to have pacu's in, but now, they only contain egg shells and nothing more.  How did they die and how did the egg shells get there?

I've had the case happen too. I suspected it was a gulp fish problem. But maybe a pacu blocked himself and couldn't do the animations where it would lay an egg ? 

[Lilalaunekuh]

1 minute ago, Yunru said:

I'm fine with it as is mechanically, but thematically wish it'd only print organics

Would be a good distinction between what the printing pod and a cargo rocket would be able to offer.

 

Regarding printable wild critters:

1.) Shine bugs

Additional wild shine bugs are just producing more egg shells/lime and could possibly eat dropped food.

=> No problem if your able to print infinite ones.

 

2.) Hatches

Additional wild hatches offer you something above 50kcal each cycle (meat not BBQ). If you want more coal, you should go and tame some hatches.

If your putting to many hatches in a stop they will start to eat the meat they are dropping before your able to sweep it away.

=> You can´t scale the food production infinitely, but you can build setups producing coal without an input.

 

3.) Pacus

Nice that you don´t have to build a temperature controlled aquarium (between 10°C and 25°C) to prevent extinction by random morphs.

But there is nothing new about (close to) infintite numbers of pacus.

=> Even 3 pacu eggs every 3 cycles isn´t that bad compared to printing/obtaining algae and growing your (tamed) population that way.

 

4.) Slicksters/dreckos/pufts

This are the problematic critters in my opinion. Your able to have on demand production without the risk of starving your critters if the food gets scare.

=> Easy way to produce infinite duplicant interaction free food and nothing makes to large populations problematic.

[Craigjw]

I placed something to be built in each pool that has a pacu in, it never gets built, but is just there so I know that at one point in time, there was definitely a pacu in the pool.

I tend to make a safety deposit pool to hold all the spare wild pacu's, as i've sometimes cocked up and caused my entire tamed pacu population to die out for what ever reason.