Abuse of Rollback

[Finx]

Hello I want to discuss something that as been frankly irritating me especially recently this something is known as rollback.

Nowadays when I play either with friends or random people in both public and friend only server rollback pretty much became a crutch. They abuse of it in so many ways that kill the survival aspect of Don't Starve in my opinion. They straight up hit the rollback button as soon as the following event occurs, they die, don't get a walrus tusk on the first try, manipulate the drop from klaus, are not prepare for a hound attack, forgot something at base I could keep giving example but you get the point.

Personally when I play Don't Starve I expect to play a survival game where if I die or something goes wrong I have to deal with it. By abusing of rollback this survival thrill vanish. I mean you already have game mode like endless if you don't want to lose all your progress because you died. Which makes me wonder what is the point of having game mode if they all become mostly the same because 99% of the player abuse of rollback? Or if you are using rollback to get that walrus tusk on the first try instead just cheat and use console command to give it to yourself (that is only possible for PC player bur still some do that for real). Most people that got 1000+ days server likes to brag about it when they can't even at the very least admit that they did rollback 13 574 986 times to reach that days count.

In the case of random people from public dedicated server I can just vote no to make the vote fail which work half of the time. But the worst for me is when I play with friend and something happen to me they quickly rollback even if I tell them that I don't want to rollback but even that they don't care and just go for it. I usually end up leaving not knowing what to do to convince them stopping doing so. I tried giving them in game tips so they don't need to rollback but I guess the temptation of rollback became stronger than acquiring skill and knowledge sadly.

In the end, I made this topic so that maybe people would have suggestion to give me that I could apply so that at least my friend would be more considerate when we play together (I play on PS4 so my option are limited) plus I was wondering if there was other people who was tired of this as well... I kind of doubt but who know?

[Quyzbuk]

Get better friends or host the worlds yourself.

[Lem3n]

47 minutes ago, Finx said:

Hello I want to discuss something that as been frankly irritating me especially recently this something is known as rollback.

Nowadays when I play either with friends or random people in both public and friend only server rollback pretty much became a crutch. They abuse of it in so many ways that kill the survival aspect of Don't Starve in my opinion. They straight up hit the rollback button as soon as the following event occurs, they die, don't get a walrus tusk on the first try, manipulate the drop from klaus, are not prepare for a hound attack, forgot something at base I could keep giving example but you get the point.

Personally when I play Don't Starve I expect to play a survival game where if I die or something goes wrong I have to deal with it. By abusing of rollback this survival thrill vanish. I mean you already have game mode like endless if you don't want to lose all your progress because you died. Which makes me wonder what is the point of having game mode if they all become mostly the same because 99% of the player abuse of rollback? Or if you are using rollback to get that walrus tusk on the first try instead just cheat and use console command to give it to yourself (that is only possible for PC player bur still some do that for real). Most people that got 1000+ days server likes to brag about it when they can't even at the very least admit that they did rollback 13 574 986 times to reach that days count.

In the case of random people from public dedicated server I can just vote no to make the vote fail which work half of the time. But the worst for me is when I play with friend and something happen to me they quickly rollback even if I tell them that I don't want to rollback but even that they don't care and just go for it. I usually end up leaving not knowing what to do to convince them stopping doing so. I tried giving them in game tips so they don't need to rollback but I guess the temptation of rollback became stronger than acquiring skill and knowledge sadly.

In the end, I made this topic so that maybe people would have suggestion to give me that I could apply so that at least my friend would be more considerate when we play together (I play on PS4 so my option are limited) plus I was wondering if there was other people who was tired of this as well... I kind of doubt but who know?

I don’t thinks it’s abuse nor wrong to do so. It’s ones choice to roll back if they choice to. Some will stop like myself because like you said. It feel wrong and personally it’s feel that it take away the aspect of the game for me. Basically not a abuse. It’s a reason it’s there. I have my own moral codes of never rolling backing though I admit I did tried it at one point or another. Honestly. It’s up to the person to decide. Like with mods. Some feel it’s perfectly fine and some don’t feel quite they same as it feel like “abuse” but it really isn’t . It’s there to for a reason. Klei want us to enjoy the game in our OWN way & that’s what makes the game appealing for many other players

[Pruinae]

The rollback feature was made with the griefers of public servers in mind, but it isn't the best option most of the time. When it is used to combat griefers it forces everyone playing in the server to redo everything they already did, which, in a way, gives sort of an accomplishment to the griefer.

Servers prepared to deal with griefers will have moderators using anti-griefing mods to help manage the server (mods that make them able to put out fires, drop inventory, etc), making, most of the time, unnecessary the use of the rollback.

That said, you also have to acknowledge the people who uses rollback to undo mistakes who have already merged the habit into their play-style, making safe to assume that they would be upset if the feature was removed. 

In the end, it comes down to finding people with the same mindset to play with.

[Dalek]

in my current world me and my friend used rollback 2 times - when we died on the first Klaus cuz of lags, and when I went to WC straight before hounds started barking, so when I came back, I was ded, not big soup rice.

[BellumOmnes]

OP will probably hate me for typing this, but I always rollback and kill Klaus until he drops his sack on the very first winter. I also rolled back a few times in my last world when two russian kids started burning most of my world and planted all my berry bushes kinda resembling a ****ty swastika.

Now I roll with an admin panel, like a badass.

[CarlZalph]

20 minutes ago, BellumOmnes said:

OP will probably hate me for typing this, but I always rollback and kill Klaus until he drops his sack on the very first winter. I also rolled back a few times in my last world when two russian kids started burning most of my world and planted all my berry bushes kinda resembling a ****ty swastika.

Now I roll with an admin panel, like a badass.

Could just install/make a mod that makes the droprate 100% or spawn the item in when it doesn't.  Would save you time and have the effective outcome.

[PuffinBy]

I don't like rollback feature either, but I also dislike losing my progress.

So, sadly, I'm always left cowering in my little base, refuse to fight bosses or explore the caves....

......At least I have my beefalo, right? 

[BellumOmnes]

2 hours ago, CarlZalph said:

Could just install/make a mod that makes the droprate 100% or spawn the item in when it doesn't.  Would save you time and have the effective outcome.

I can spawn it with the console too, but I really don't mind fighting Klaus. Normally I just want to get it out of the way, because I had couple of worlds where it dropped on day 200+ and 300+. What I do is, I get him really low and wait for the new day save and just hit once, open the bag and loot the presents, rollback if needed.

[Finx]

17 hours ago, Quyzbuk said:

Get better friends or host the worlds yourself.

I have a fantastic idea to give them a taste of their own medicine. Lure these friends in a PvP world so I can kill them over and over with the power of rollback so they have a taste of my wrath. Their pain will be so unbearable that they will beg me to put an end to it. I won't stop until they kneel to me... Oh wait they never join when I host, R.I.P sadistic dream lol.  

 

16 hours ago, SavageLemon said:

I don’t thinks it’s abuse nor wrong to do so. It’s ones choice to roll back if they choice to. Some will stop like myself because like you said. It feel wrong and personally it’s feel that it take away the aspect of the game for me. Basically not a abuse. It’s a reason it’s there. I have my own moral codes of never rolling backing though I admit I did tried it at one point or another. Honestly. It’s up to the person to decide. Like with mods. Some feel it’s perfectly fine and some don’t feel quite they same as it feel like “abuse” but it really isn’t . It’s there to for a reason. Klei want us to enjoy the game in our OWN way & that’s what makes the game appealing for many other players

 I don't see it in a moral way its just that it literally kill the fun of a survival game. Also saying that its an intended feature like mod is an argument that could be use the other way around. Look at solo Don't Starve rollback isn't there compare to mod which they do. So the reason for the existance of rollback must be something that as to do precisely with DST being a multiplayer game. I don't know the intended reason why Klei implemented rollback in DST but my guess would be to prevent griefer rather than to be use as a cheaper life giving amulet.

 

16 hours ago, Pruinae said:

That said, you also have to acknowledge the people who uses rollback to undo mistakes who have already merged the habit into their play-style, making safe to assume that they would be upset if the feature was removed.

Doing so is like leaving a glitch or an non-intended feature that is game changer in a bad way for the game. For example back in the days in Call of Duty 4 people would dashboard so that their K/D ratio doesn't get affected by a bad game. The consequence was that when the host would do that the game would end which was annoying when it happen 90% of the game you would be in. So in the end not fixing these feature to please these people is pretty much rewarding them for doing so and leaving the victim of these feature left aside.

[TipherethB]

48 minutes ago, Finx said:

I have a fantastic idea to give them a taste of their own medicine. Lure these friends in a PvP world so I can kill them over and over with the power of rollback so they have a taste of my wrath. Their pain will be so unbearable that they will beg me to put an end to it. I won't stop until they kneel to me...

*User* Has left the game.

[GetNerfedOn]

18 hours ago, Finx said:

Look at solo Don't Starve rollback isn't there

You can, with quickest of reflexes, pause the game before death and exit Don't Starve directly by pressing the Close button or opening Task Manager and ending its process.. You can start up the game again and continue on from your latest save... which may be a drag depending on when the game last autosaved, especially if it saved right before you exited.

This also works if you die and have a Touch Stone/Meat Effigy active. Exiting rolls you back to the previous save, possibly restoring those precious Effigies/Touch Stones.

so.... i guess this counts as a rollback, too?

 

Anyways...

As a pretty guilty rollback abuser myself, my deepest apologies, kind sir. I have to admit myself that rollbacking indeed takes the punishment of permadeath out of Don't Starve, which was one of its' selling points anyhow.

However, I rollback A LOT because i'm still in the process of exploring the game's mechanics and have far too many untoward accidents which require constant Bites The Dust triggers to solve.

However, once I feel confident enough with myself and my skills to finally approach Don't Starve without mods and exploits, then shall come the time where I shall no longer rollback/use mods/the exit exploit i mentioned.

 

[Xenologist]

18 hours ago, Finx said:

 I don't know the intended reason why Klei implemented rollback in DST but my guess would be to prevent griefer rather than to be use as a cheaper life giving amulet.

Yes, it can entirely prevent or even stop a griefer's problems, even going back to before it happened

[Finx]

5 hours ago, GetNerfedOn said:

You can, with quickest of reflexes, pause the game before death and exit Don't Starve directly by pressing the Close button or opening Task Manager and ending its process.. You can start up the game again and continue on from your latest save... which may be a drag depending on when the game last autosaved, especially if it saved right before you exited.

This also works if you die and have a Touch Stone/Meat Effigy active. Exiting rolls you back to the previous save, possibly restoring those precious Effigies/Touch Stones.

so.... i guess this counts as a rollback, too?

Oh I wasn't aware of that feature I mostly play DST. I don't think they intended it though is it very hard if not impossible to make a saving system in any game that cant be exploited in any shape or form. Especially nowadays with cloud saving. Anyway I guess you could call that pseudo rollback yes.

5 hours ago, GetNerfedOn said:

However, I rollback A LOT because i'm still in the process of exploring the game's mechanics and have far too many untoward accidents which require constant Bites The Dust triggers to solve.

However, once I feel confident enough with myself and my skills to finally approach Don't Starve without mods and exploits, then shall come the time where I shall no longer rollback/use mods/the exit exploit i mentioned.

You have my respect since unfortunately player who rollback are the one with lots of game time spend playing this game not beginner who are still learning the game.

I wish this mentality was more common but thats asking way too much.

[NSAiswatchingus]

55 minutes ago, Finx said:

You have my respect since unfortunately player who rollback are the one with lots of game time spend playing this game not beginner who are still learning the game.

I wish this mentality was more common but thats asking way too much.

So if a group of players is attempting to defeat the Ancient Fuelweaver having no prior knowledge of the fight (as intended), are they expected to eat the cost of every failed attempt or even potentially restart the server? Is it fun to stop to resupply everyone each attempt? What happens when you're out of armor and healing supplies? Do you just give up to try again another day and hope all the same people are available?

No, I just roll it back so the fun can continue and people can enjoy the game they paid for instead of worrying about tryhards thinking they did a "legit" run. 

How many people do you think would play this game if it wasn't for the rollback feature? 

 

On 1/24/2019 at 1:26 PM, BellumOmnes said:

I can spawn it with the console too, but I really don't mind fighting Klaus. Normally I just want to get it out of the way, because I had couple of worlds where it dropped on day 200+ and 300+. What I do is, I get him really low and wait for the new day save and just hit once, open the bag and loot the presents, rollback if needed.

If I've already grinded legitimately to lvl 80 in Skyrim once I'm not doing it again on subsequent playthroughs. Same with the Krampus sack. If you've gotten it legitimately once, as not to rob yourself of the experience, then go ahead and spawn one in your later worlds. This game is monotonous enough. If a player can alleviate that even a little I say go for it. 

[Finx]

1 minute ago, NSAiswatchingus said:

So if a group of players is attempting to defeat the Ancient Fuelweaver having no prior knowledge of the fight (as intended), are they expected to eat the cost of every failed attempt or even potentially restart the server? Is it fun to stop to resupply everyone each attempt? What happens when you're out of armor and healing supplies? Do you just give up to try again another day and hope all the same people are available?

No, I just roll it back so the fun can continue and people can enjoy the game they paid for instead of worrying about tryhards thinking they did a "legit" run. 

How many people do you think would play this game if it wasn't for the rollback feature? 

99% of the DST player base watch Youtube tutorial or go on the wiki to know how to prep and fight it and just to get to Ancient Fuelweaver it is nearly impossible for someone that play DST fully blind to get to it because all the step that you need to accomplish are hidden and very vague.

That pretty much invalide your point since it is base on the idea that most people fight Fuelweaver without knowing anything about it.

A final note, using the term tryhard to justify your point is an easy and very poor argument that doesn't make for an interesting discussion.

[NSAiswatchingus]

4 minutes ago, Finx said:

99% of the DST player base watch Youtube tutorial or go on the wiki to know how to prep and fight it

Yupp, which includes a variety of different ways to be done. All the way from cheeses, 6 player runs, to solo runs. It's up to the player to decide which one based on their skills and playstyle.

7 minutes ago, Finx said:

and just to get to Ancient Fuelweaver it is nearly impossible for someone that play DST fully blind to get to it because all the step that you need to accomplish are hidden and very vague.

Not impossible though. Given enough time and problem solving skills, a player could absolutely figure out this game blind. Which, could be argued is how the game is "intended" to be played. 

13 minutes ago, Finx said:

That pretty much invalide your point since it is base on the idea that most people fight Fuelweaver without knowing anything about it.

But that IS the point. Nobody is playing the game "as intended". 

15 minutes ago, Finx said:

A final note, using the term tryhard to justify your point is an easy and very poor argument that doesn't make for an interesting discussion.

How else would you describe the group of players that say only the most difficult and skill necessary methods are the ones that should be used? 

[Finx]

20 minutes ago, NSAiswatchingus said:

Not impossible though. Given enough time and problem solving skills, a player could absolutely figure out this game blind. Which, could be argued is how the game is "intended" to be played. 

It is easy to say but do you know at least 1 player that was able to access Ancient Fuelweaver fully blind? I don't, which is why I remain doubtful about it until it happen of course.

23 minutes ago, NSAiswatchingus said:

But that IS the point. Nobody is playing the game "as intended". 

I dont know if you met the dev or something but you seem to know the intended way the game is suppose to be played so could you explain me this "intended way" please?

25 minutes ago, NSAiswatchingus said:

How else would you describe the group of players that say only the most difficult and skill necessary methods are the ones that should be used?

These player doesn't say you should only be playing the game only the difficult and skill way but rather to not purely cheese and cheat it to the point were its worth wondering what is the point of playing this survival game if you remove all the danger component that makes the fun of it? People really have fun destoying bosses that never stand a chance?

Oh boy I could go on about this idea that DST is a "difficult" game but it isn't the point of this topic so I will keep it for myself.

[NSAiswatchingus]

5 hours ago, Finx said:

I dont know if you met the dev or something but you seem to know the intended way the game is suppose to be played so could you explain me this "intended way" please? 

It seems pretty obvious. The intended way to play is using any combination of items, in game mechanics, and strategies to overcome to game's challenges. That's it. The combinations and strategies used are up to the player to figure out. Players can seek outside knowledge if they choose, but the game provides everything needed to solve the it's own mysteries. 

5 hours ago, Finx said:

These player doesn't say you should only be playing the game only the difficult and skill way but rather to not purely cheese and cheat it to the point were its worth wondering what is the point of playing this survival game if you remove all the danger component that makes the fun of it?

The problem is that nobody agrees on what is considered "cheating" or even "cheesing". The core of the entire game is about slowly removing the danger element as you become more comfortable through the seasons. The most difficult part of the game is the first year. Everyone has a different idea of what fun is and plays to achieve their personal balance of struggle and fun. 

5 hours ago, Finx said:

People really have fun destoying bosses that never stand a chance?

Some people do. Who are we to judge?

 

[Yuuko]

7 hours ago, NSAiswatchingus said:

So if a group of players is attempting to defeat the Ancient Fuelweaver having no prior knowledge of the fight (as intended), are they expected to eat the cost of every failed attempt or even potentially restart the server? Is it fun to stop to resupply everyone each attempt? What happens when you're out of armor and healing supplies? Do you just give up to try again another day and hope all the same people are available?

No, I just roll it back so the fun can continue and people can enjoy the game they paid for instead of worrying about tryhards thinking they did a "legit" run. 

How many people do you think would play this game if it wasn't for the rollback feature? 

As I've recently practiced the raid bosses, something I hadn't ventured to before, I've found its very easy to make a new world and use a few console commands / admin panel to practice the fight many times, with whatever supplies I want, endlessly...  So when I want to make a world I can be proud of, something with good base lasting hundreds of days, where I truly tackled the bosses, I don't use any rollbacks.

I'm pretty much against rollbacks as a crutch for bad game play.  Yeah, I lost my 250 day world to a hound attack I wasn't prepared for...  it sucked...  I really liked the map...  but its a survival game.  In a survival game the risk of losing is part of the game.  I am more impressed by the most cheese tactics to defeat a boss without dying than any hard-core, no armor fight where a player used rollbacks a dozen times to actually do it...

What I wouldn't mind seeing is a compromise.  Rather than having the world auto-save every day with a 5 day rollback log I'd like to see the option to flag a save for rollback.  In this way you can choose to add that feature in if you want, but it won't be there by default.  What this means is if someone wants to play with rollbacks - either because they have used many console commands to set themselves up for a practice with fuel weaver and want to easily repeat that fight many times, or because they are about to do something risky in their "real world" and don't want to really risk it all they can hit a console button to grab that 1 rollback point, and play on from there.  However the standard state of the world would then be the unforgiving survival game that has you playing without a safety net.

I think this would remove the crutch angle as people would need to consciously say "we're saving at this point in case xyz happens" without always having that backup available for when someone forgets about a hound attack, or swings their torch at a gobbler in their berry bush farm.

 

Quote

If I've already grinded legitimately to lvl 80 in Skyrim once I'm not doing it again on subsequent playthroughs. Same with the Krampus sack. If you've gotten it legitimately once, as not to rob yourself of the experience, then go ahead and spawn one in your later worlds. This game is monotonous enough. If a player can alleviate that even a little I say go for it. 

Just use the console commands then...  I am kinda particular about the maps I keep.  I played several times through 7-10 days exploring maps before considering if I really wanted to stay in that world, or burn it down and re-roll.  Now I just reveal the map on spawn and check it out.  If the map is cool I'll roll back to world gen, hide the map, and play.

If you feel that killing Klaus merits a Krampus Sack regardless of the drop rate, just spawn it in.  It isn't any more / less earned because you last-hit Klaus one more time lol

----------------------------

Edit - I should add in - my concern about griefing is 0%.  I don't care at all if someone joins a world I'm playing, which is open to the public, and does something stupid.  To me that's part of playing the game.  There isn't much they can do that current console commands / admin panel can't fix without rollbacks.  I see rollbacks as a useful way of repeating a scenario multiple times in quick succession to become more familiar with them, possibly preventing the risk of your world because you want to try something fun / stupid / new.  Beyond that I don't really like rollbacks.  From my perspective I will always know ahead of time that I want to create a rollback point before I would ever need a rollback point.

[Finx]

10 hours ago, NSAiswatchingus said:

The problem is that nobody agrees on what is considered "cheating" or even "cheesing".

The definition of cheating, cheesing or glitching are pretty set in stone for quite a while a now. If anyone doesnt know what they mean they can easily google it to find out.

The problem isn't that nobody agrees on what is considered cheating or cheese but rather that people try to pretend that they are part of the game design and game mechanic of the game when they are not.

Of course people will pretend that these are intended feature they will do everything they can just so they remain there since it is easier to cheese the game and use something that they already know how to use than get out of your comfort zone and gather friends to take out the content that gives trouble which was I think is more intended for a game made to be played together.

Because klei never did an update to fix the out of bound that allow you to kill bee queen without having the grumble bee harassing you for example doesn't  mean that  it is intended. I just mean that Klei slacked off by prioritising skin and event over polishing the buggy main game over the last few year which resulted to people thinking that it is intended. You in particular should know that since you play on PS4.

[NSAiswatchingus]

28 minutes ago, Finx said:

The definition of cheating, cheesing or glitching are pretty set in stone for quite a while a now. If anyone doesnt know what they mean they can easily google it to find out.

I honestly can't tell if you don't understand what I'm saying or are intentionally misrepresenting my arguements so I'm just gonna be done with this "discussion". 

[Finx]

17 minutes ago, NSAiswatchingus said:

I honestly can't tell if you don't understand what I'm saying or are intentionally misrepresenting my arguements so I'm just gonna be done with this "discussion". 

I understand what you are saying but I have the feeling that you are expecting from me to straight up blindly agree with you when none of your argument were mastodon solid enough for me to be like : "Hey you have a good point, I was wrong". Which in the end leads me to disagree with you which you don't seem to be able to handle unfortunately.

I know that in these forum you have plenty people who will only want to hear and say what they want to hear but im not one of those. I believe that for these kind of topic you need to be able to go above that or else you simply end up with bland uninteresting discussion.

[Yuuko]

12 hours ago, Finx said:

The problem isn't that nobody agrees on what is considered cheating or cheese but rather that people try to pretend that they are part of the game design and game mechanic of the game when they are not.

If you wanted to go by the standard definition of cheating then anything which changes the memory of the game, gives access to information not typically available, modifies input, or requires a console code entry is cheating.  This includes areal view, view all characters, shared map, view health info, combined status, and smart crock pot.  Are these a part of the game?  If you just hate all mods then no they are not.  If you are okay with mods, odds are you're using these.  Many consider these mods as making the game complete by making it more playable.  QOL mods.  Almost any mod would be considered cheating.

Glitching is performing actions in the game which will cause you to defy the obvious design of the game.  Not everyone wants to utilize glitches (or has the skill to,) and considers only the non-glitched play to be "legit."  The validity of this tends to hinge on the reliability of the company to patch out the glitches.  If they don't patch out the glitches then it becomes part of the game.  Glitches are heavily exploited for many speed runs, high score runs, and even accepted in pvp play.  Often they can be time savers, sometimes they are just fun to do.  Until a company patches it out these are as legit as normal play.  This includes pushing yourself off the map to fight bee queen, or to get to the fuel weaver, and opening ancient chests to bug thulecite crowns (I don't know if this one still works.)

Cheesing is utilizing unorthodox tactics to disable challenging functions of the game.  Especially things that ultra-simplify or completely ez-mode a normal obstacle.  If the company has the ability to patch the game and never fixes these, they are essentially considered part of the game, acceptable use for speed runs, high score runs, and even pvp play. The main difference between glitching and cheesing is that glitching exploites mechanics which are obviously against the intention of the game where cheesing simply uses mechanics in unconventional ways.  This includes planting lure plants and using a shootius to ace the fuel weaver, leaving food lures surrounded by walls to keep pigs out at night, trapping bishops to farm bunnies, using a wall to trap lavae or grumble adds away from the boss fight, and many other common elements of DST.

When you say "people try to pretend they are part of the game" you postulate that these are not commonly accepted practices.  The main evidence against this as mentioned in both my comment about glitching and cheesing is that if you look at speed runs, high score runs, and even pvp play through out the history of video games and still true today these tactics are considered 100% valid.  The only thing that wouldn't be considered valid are mods.

PS - Exploiting rollbacks to get the drop you want from a mob, or to recover from some misplay that jeopardizes your game is cheesing.

[Finx]

45 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

When you say "people try to pretend they are part of the game" you postulate that these are not commonly accepted practices.

In the DST community if you look at forum as soon as you talk about wall, out of bound or other similar stuff people will jump at you if you aren't accepting these practices like they do so yeah it is seems reasonable to say at this point to say that they are accepted in this community but I don't want to personally use these practise since I feel I would be insulting myself more than anything else for doing so but if you want to use these method feel free to do so.

54 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

The main evidence against this as mentioned in both my comment about glitching and cheesing is that if you look at speed runs, high score runs, and even pvp play through out the history of video games and still true today these tactics are considered 100% valid.  The only thing that wouldn't be considered valid are mods.

DST is an exception. I use to have a passion for watching speedrun and from my experience and knowledge of it I can say that the use of glitch is ambiguous to the point were it is each game community who will handle it each on their own. The Dark Souls community for every game of the franchise do separate speedrun into distinct category depending on if some specific glitch were use. In Dark Souls 1 speedrun using the kiln skip will be separated from other run or in Dark Souls 2 speedrun using the binoboost glitch have their own category. On the other hand you have game like Splinter Cell were every speedrun are put into the same category with no consideration to glitch used and other stuff that could compromise the validy of the leaderboard of the game (unless it actually did change since last time I checked).

Also there are speedrunner who ended up stopped running specific game because they became too glitch heavy.

For high score you have the famous case of Billy Mitchell who was caught for cheating and many other masty stuff which he lost his world record for it lol... I must admit this one makes me laugh everytime I talk about it so I had to brought it up sorry.