What does the game actually mean by "Total Decor"

[Alfons100]

A new prompt was added in QoL upgrade, where if you got more than 120 Decor, it will say that it is (Maximum Decor), what does the game actually mean by this? That 120 average decor a cycle is the max amount of decor? Or that the average decor a cycle doesn't increase faster past 120? It would be a bit disappointing if the average decor increase was capped at 120, makes Shinebug ranching less useful

[KittenIsAGeek]

27 minutes ago, Alfons100 said:

A new prompt was added in QoL upgrade, where if you got more than 120 Decor, it will say that it is (Maximum Decor), what does the game actually mean by this? That 120 average decor a cycle is the max amount of decor? Or that the average decor a cycle doesn't increase faster past 120? It would be a bit disappointing if the average decor increase was capped at 120, makes Shinebug ranching less useful

That any additional decor items in that area will not have any benefit.  You've reached the maximum decor for wherever your mouse pointer is.

[Mariilyn]

11 hours ago, Alfons100 said:

That 120 average decor a cycle is the max amount of decor?

An average of 120 decor per cycle is required to get +12 morale - the highest bonus - but there is still no cap on that value. You can see the real environmental decor value by looking at the tooltip when hovering over the decor value shown in a dupes status menu.

.. I don't think capping the maximum decor value in some way or another is a bad idea - after all too much of a good thing can be detrimental or creepy (like the notion of putting a row of statues in my bathroom) but 120 would be too low.

[SakuraKoi]

25 minutes ago, Mariilyn said:

You can see the real one by looking at the decor tooltip in a dupes profile.

well, it actually caps at 1000 but it is rather weird to say the least (not to mention the hover tool tip being wrong&outdated). "Average Decor this Cycle" can still reach silly values beyond that. The shown value might as well have no real effect since the mechanic of "decor rising with a speed that is faster than when it falls" is replaced entirely with average decor being calculated with the very current decor value.

[Mariilyn]

1 hour ago, SakuraKoi said:

well, it actually caps at 1000 but it is rather weird to say the least (not to mention the hover tool tip being wrong&outdated). 

The hover tooltip might be wrong but was recently modified in the QoL update. Maybe some changes are going to happen. 

Also which value exactly is capped at 1000? 

[SakuraKoi]

1 minute ago, Mariilyn said:

The hover tooltip might be wrong but was recently modified in the QoL update. Maybe some changes are going to happen. 

Also which value exactly is capped at 1000? 

I took a look with the most recent version and it is in the status menu visible value without hover which caps at 1000 and told me that dupes would be stressed in low decor areas upon hovering (and showing what the average decor is in this and the last cycle). 

[Mariilyn]

8 hours ago, SakuraKoi said:

I took a look with the most recent version and it is in the status menu visible value without hover which caps at 1000 and told me that dupes would be stressed in low decor areas upon hovering (and showing what the average decor is in this and the last cycle). 

This one... I frankly have no idea what this number is supposed to represent.

Also this is the tooltip that was recently modified and is now a source of confusion :

[KittenIsAGeek]

1 hour ago, Mariilyn said:

 

LOL!  +2200 from shine bugs!

[chemie]

look a dups in a room with 500 decor and then see what their 1 cycle number is

[Sasza22]

2 hours ago, KittenIsAGeek said:

LOL!  +2200 from shine bugs!

People underestimate the 2 highest morphs. +80 decor for one is pretty big.

[KittenIsAGeek]

1 minute ago, Sasza22 said:

People underestimate the 2 highest morphs. +80 decor for one is pretty big.

Once I get longhair slicksters, I place them around my base in areas that are normally low decor.

[Gurgel]

Dupes still see and use the real decor. At this time the 120 cap just makes it harder to see what real decor in a place is...

 

I have to say I find limiting decor a really bad idea. It reduces the options players have to deal with stress and forces them in a specific direction. That is not good.

[JeP2k3]

Or it shows that beyond a certain point, we should care a little about the look of the base rather than being slaves to optimization (at least for the decor). I never went far, but I like that.

[xenoborg]

This change would be dumb as hell if they go through with it, even if they capped negative decor to -120, in order to get that +12 morale you would have to get every single tile in base / out of base / around industrial areas to 120, to get an average of 120, instead of a few areas full of decor items, decor will be spammed in every conceivable space and industrial areas would be built so odd to keep that 120 decor per tile.

Klei - We don't want people to spam decor in one single area.

Klei - We want people to spam decor on every single tile.

Logic....

[Xuhybrid]

Adding a cap just makes people spam even more decor...

Their current changes to decor already make early decor a much harder struggle, where you have to ulitize something besides paintings. I actually like that aspect. I can't just plop down Masterpieces the moment i have time to build them.

[SakuraKoi]

3 hours ago, xenoborg said:

This change would be dumb as hell if they go through with it[...]

Klei - We don't want people to spam decor in one single area.

Klei - We want people to spam decor on every single tile.

Logic....

I suppose you did not consider that it might be...

Klei - We want people to see how much decor on average is needed for a full moral bonus

... even though they have yet to actually limit anything and may not ever or not to this point?

Now I just hope that you do not go too much further with your interpretations, being like "We (I) prevented its implementation before it was even implemented!"

Speculation (worry) on possibilities is fine, along with pointing out and judging the outcome of each but your post leaves no room for speculation.

 

To actually be constructive: If they ever consider to limit decor (concentrated spam), which I hope they do, then the target value would probably be around twice (240) or thrice (360) the cap.

As example, spending half the time in the beautiful base (240) and half the time working in an industry area with a humble 60 decor, the average would still be 150. Dupes by the by spend around 200s of 600s in the base late game. 360 sounds like a fair fit since there should be still room for Radiant Bugs and Longhair Slickster Pets.

[xenoborg]

52 minutes ago, SakuraKoi said:

To actually be constructive: If they ever consider to limit decor (concentrated spam), which I hope they do, then the target value would probably be around twice (240) or thrice (360) the cap.

As example, spending half the time in the beautiful base (240) and half the time working in an industry area with a humble 60 decor, the average would still be 150. Dupes by the by spend around 200s of 600s in the base late game. 360 sounds like a fair fit since there should be still room for Radiant Bugs and Longhair Slickster Pets.

The last thing Klei should be doing is limiting player choice, If players want to decor bomb their base they should be able to, if players want to decorate everything they should be able to. This doesn't affect you from playing the way you want, but changing it will force other players to play how you want to play.

I think its fair to remove decor going through air / mesh tiles, so late game when you can build floor out of glass you can be rewarded by better decor spread.

Unless they do cap bad decor to the same level they cap plus, you'll get to a situation where no matter how much decor you can fit in an area, if your dupe spends time there they are going to have a bad average. +360 isn't going to do much if you have a -1000 power plant. Your industry build shouldn't be revolved around decor either, thats the point of making a nice base.

[Coolthulhu]

31 minutes ago, xenoborg said:

The last thing Klei should be doing is limiting player choice

The whole thing about games is that they require restrictions.

Klei has the right idea - stopping decor spam, because decor spam actually limits player choice, because when the player has a fake choice between obviously good and obviously bad, that's not a choice.

The way Klei choose to attempt that isn't very good, since limiting max decor in area will just result in having to spread the decor spam around, but the idea of limiting decor effects is good, partly because it gives players choice and not just an illusion of it.

[xenoborg]

45 minutes ago, Coolthulhu said:

The whole thing about games is that they require restrictions.

The changes they seem to be doing to decor (minus max decor) and artist job has already fixed the "problem" of an easy early game decor morale bonus though. Need glass to spam rows of statues below rooms, need a good amount of morale already to get your artist through the jobs to get better decor items.

 

No matter what you do if you give players the option of optimised vs non, players will always choose optimised, the illusion of choice is in pretty much every game, but its still a choice, you can choose to make your experience "worse" rather than the game dev just making your experience "worse".

Do I put decor in one place or do I put decor in lots of places, I need decor so I have to have it Klei made that choice for me already. This change would limit the two choices I actually have to one to put decor in lots of places.

Aesthetic choice is probably the only actual choice players really have with decor, and room types.

If they want to give a "choice" how about two types of decor, one that ups your average decor to get that + morale ie the decor now, and another one that ups dupes stats in the vicinity.

[Coolthulhu]

58 minutes ago, xenoborg said:

No matter what you do if you give players the option of optimised vs non, players will always choose optimised, the illusion of choice is in pretty much every game, but its still a choice

No, it's not a choice. The "choice" to press the exit button doesn't count either.

If anything, removing illusion of choice often makes actual choices possible. For example, when Klei nerfed oil boiling, they removed the no-brainer and thus brought back options like petroleum generator, coal generator, solars.

With decor spam, the also removed a no-brainer, but uncovered another one. The number of choices regarding decor is still the same as before: 0. Maybe they'll figure something out later.