The Curator

Monster Meatballs

27 posts in this topic

That is it really. Make it so that they are created instead of regular meatballs when monster meat is the primary ingredient.

Monster meat is supposed to be what players resort to when desperate, or can be used through more obscure ways to produce healthy food. The fact that meatballs convert them into a healthy sustenance for no reason defeats this balance, and is a blatant meta you can find in any match.

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The fairness I saw about monster meat into meatballs is that you still need 3 fillers to go with it; you can use one monster meat in any meaty recipe, but ONLY one. And I figured, that's fair enough. It would hella bump up the value/importance of the other meat items if it was disallowed from meat recipes (not just meatballs; honey ham, meaty stew!) which could be interesting, but, that's something for mods.

Monstermeat werepigging is pretty strong but you do have to do some fighting (granted, being able to mostly get 'em during the transformation is what -really- makes it strong...) but pigs are a "limited" resource so, I guess that's fine too.

Monster meat in the birdcage is the real offender, but when Klei realized you could do that they tried to patch it out and there was enough complaining they undid it; for that you just have to resort to mods. (Someone made one for me in the mod section, but I never did upload it to the workshop... hrm. It felt like it'd be awkward since I didn't make it, but it's probably better to have it up somewhere for people to use?)

Well, and monster meat with ice (now there's some cheese...), but there's also a good mod on workshop for removing ice as a valid filler in all non-ice-requiring recipes.

 

 

 

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Unfortunately wouldn't achieve that much. Meatballs are only good if you've got lots of monster meat and fillers lying around or if it's the only recipe you could make at the moment. I still prefer eating ingredients outright instead of turning them into meatballs.

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8 hours ago, JohnWatson said:

Unfortunately wouldn't achieve that much. Meatballs are only good if you've got lots of monster meat and fillers lying around or if it's the only recipe you could make at the moment.

The situation your are referring to however is the classic system players default to. Horde berries and or ice, which are relatively easy to gather; then all you need is to kill spiders. If monster meat was disallowed, players would actually have to find healthy meat which is significantly less common. Killing rabbits, moleworms, birds and koalephants requires significantly more effort.

Monster meat is easy to get because it is not meant to be eaten normally unless you are desperate, and that is why regular meat is more obscure in turn. Meatballs contradict this entire system, allowing you to make monster meat edible by sacrificing a paltry amount of filler.

While there are ways to acquire healthy meat from monster meat, these are more unusual and strategic methods. Meatballs are neither, which is why it is the meta.

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LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

if you exclude monster meat of meatball ...

All players will craft Kabob ! 

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9 hours ago, petitpers said:

LOOOjuOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

if you exclude monster meat of meatball ...

All players will craft Kabob !

I guess that means it's overpowered and that Klei should remove Kebab in order to maintain game balance.

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1 hour ago, Arlesienne said:

Here. The community listened. The horde of berries and ice, gathered under the single banner, about to lay siege to the spider kingdom.

unknown.png

(Honestly though, the reason for one monster meat being fine in meatballs, to me, is that it's okay since you really don't get much meat in meatballs, so the toxicity is negligible.)

A High-Quality post like none other. Gave me a good laugh.

Now, I don't think we need Monster Meatballs. Punishing players further when they already have so much to worry about already seems a bit much.

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Posted (edited)

Kabobs unbalanced ? Yeah Kabobs Recipe isn't very cost efficient ( i think it's the worst meat recipe ).

So why I think players will turn all their food into Kabobs ?
Because Kabobs is super easy to craft and to remember !

Meatballs Unbalanced ? I don't know and i don't think so ! (Ok i agree Meatball is super (too) strong with 3 ice)
The crockpot must be a avantage for survivability. I'm a experienced player and i start to craft meatballs when I store (share...) all my food in fridge. I generally eat roasted birchnuts, berries, cooked monster meat, green caps ... and often my first craft in cooking pot is some trail mix because my health is generally 50% low. and starting to craft bacon in winter but we don't care about my life xD

Sometimes i see newbies using foods like juicy berries, jerkys, cactus flesh,... to craft meatballs, but isn't very cost efficient !!
I think, if they do that, it's because it's the only recipe they know, because this is the only recipe people will learn you and you should to know for survive your first autumn and also the recipe is very simple to memorize.

Not because meatballs is super broken recipe ! ( shut up dragonpie stay quiet we don't talk about you I promise! )

Edited by petitpers
missing one word
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6 hours ago, Maslak said:

Charlie is a serb.avi

58590808b1a9f_removestarve.png.050184414caae245887c15b9c636f8bc.png

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Posted (edited)

On 3/20/2017 at 2:26 PM, TheKingDedede said:

Now, I don't think we need Monster Meatballs. Punishing players further when they already have so much to worry about already seems a bit much.

So, Monster Lasagna already and clearly exists to punish players for using too much monster meat in a recipe that is meant to be healthy.

But meatballs are the magical exception, which is made even more ironic by the fact that Monster Lasagna forces players to balance healthy and monster meat if they wanted to conserve healthy meat. Adding another interesting dynamic to using monster meat to create healthy food indirectly; which is the entire point. It is an unhealthy resource players need to finagle in order to benefit from.

 

But meatballs are just, the one exception the developers made for zero reasons. And because of it, they are the blatant meta every group clearly uses because it is so easy and is the one exception to the rules.

Ignoring the break in logic meatballs create, and the fact the developers obviously intended to punish players for using monster meat in recipes; just keep it in there. Because we wouldn't want the unforgiving infamously difficult wilderness survival game to be too harsh, when meta already makes it borderline effortless.

Edited by The Curator
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3 minutes ago, The Curator said:

But meatballs are the magical exception

Nope. There are more recipes that can use monster meat as the only meat input, for example pierogis. They're not only safe to eat, they also restore 40 hp. Even weirder then why you sticked to talking about meatballs.

5 minutes ago, The Curator said:

And because of it, they are the blatant meta every group clearly uses

5 minutes ago, The Curator said:

meta

Since when meatballs are meta and everyone uses them? People already gave good examples of better foods that should be used. Meatballs are often mentioned as good for beginners, because... Those advices are given by other beginners!

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I only use meatballs if I have nothing else its better to go with: Fishsticks,froggy bunwich,buttermiffins,pierogis,bacon and eggs or spicy chili even.

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16 minutes ago, Maslak said:

Nope. There are more recipes that can use monster meat as the only meat input, for example pierogis. They're not only safe to eat, they also restore 40 hp. Even weirder then why you sticked to talking about meatballs.

Since when meatballs are meta and everyone uses them? People already gave good examples of better foods that should be used. Meatballs are often mentioned as good for beginners, because... Those advices are given by other beginners!

Which, is even worse, because that means there are more exceptions. Which seems to be consistent with single inputs. So the developers coded monster lasagna to appear when using more then one monster meat in a recipe. Which means, recipes with only one input get a free pass because they avoid this stipulation.

That is still an illogical exception. The point of monster lasagna is to punish using monster meat as a primary ingredient because it is unhealthy. The fact that certain recipes are exempt from this because the rules of monster lasagna do not cover them, is unbalanced and inconsistent.

 

And meatballs are hardly beginners only. Perhaps in certain servers and groups they have all adapted to using other recipes, but public servers are filled with players of all kinds of experience levels and they all still default to meatballs.

This is the second time people have inappropriately linked game-play choices to game-play experience because of their own bias.

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You know that fugu fish or stuff? It's pretty toxic, chef needs to prepare it in the right way to make it non-dangerous for organism.

 I can't understand why suddenly some people wake up and think "Oh my goodnes, this one feature is dumb and should be removed!". The game has a couple of years already, it was like this almost all this time. And now suddenly someone decides that it needs to be changed.
 I don't know what else I can say. You're starting to repeat yourself, I'll avoid doing this.

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I am not a big fan of Meatballs myself, it makes so many other meals for most players completely redundant.

Meatballs have a hunger value of 62.5, so two of them can almost fill every char in the game.

All the following meals have only a food value of 37.5 and there sanity or health boosts arn't very good either:

Kabobs

Fish Tacos

Fist full of jam

Froggle Bunwich

Guacamole

Honey Nuggets

Spicy Chilli

And of corse some have better spoil time or can be cooked faster, but the hunger bonus from Meatballs is just so much higher. That is the main reason why so many people don't bother to cook the other recipes above, not because the players are stupid, but because it just isn't worth another stack in you inventory or ice box most of the time.

 

And Meatballs are easier to cook than everything above:

3x ice + monster meat

3x eggs (made from monster meat in the birdcage) + monster meat

3x red caps + monster meat

 

You can basically just survive of 1 spider den (with all the monster meat) after you got the bird cage (that is not hard) and just heal your sanity and health with a tent, you get enough silk after all.

 

I am a bit sad that so many people did ***** about the bird cage change, monster meat (raw, cooked, dried) costs health when ate and birds have only very little health.

The bird should die after a couple of monster meat, so you have atleast to get a new bird for converting monster meat in eggs or you should heal the bird with health restoring food or items when he ate to much monster meat or durian.

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1 hour ago, HeilerderWelten said:

The bird should die after a couple of monster meat, so you have atleast to get a new bird for converting monster meat in eggs or you should heal the bird with health restoring food or items when he ate to much monster meat or durian.

Just saying, I don't remember being able to heal allied pigs and so on.

And the recipes mentioned have other benefits. Temperature changes, for one. Ease of preparation in certain biomes. Topmost, food with less satiation lets you micromanage less. Unless you're Wolfgang or WX with upgrades, to eat something like a meaty stew, you have to wait till you reach 1 hunger point to lose just 1 hunger point upon eating. If you have a few bunwiches, you eat in a more relaxed way, because you don't have to risk being prevented from eating (like when fighting) only as you waited to reach a certain level of hunger to maximise the use of your more filling meal.

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Cooked Monster Meat isn't very punishing, people just have an aversion to losing stats even when they're easy to recover. Getting 6.25 extra satiation isn't much given common fillers have 12.5, even including the aspects of extending freshness and unhealthy-healthy meat conversion.

Other weaker recipes should at least have superior stats to their components in some way over looking pretty. Did you know 3 Twigs used to be allowed as filler for Kabobs?

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Posted (edited)

As someone who is all for difficult games, (I put all of my rpgs on the hardest difficulty setting when I first start playing them, and I have sunk quite a few hours into the Dark Souls series...) I see no reason to make this change. For the following reasons...

 I would say the assumption that meatballs are the meta for inexperienced players is probably quite accurate. You yourself (Curator) have admitted to not playing Wolfgang and believing that Wigfrid is overpowered... That preference to Wigfrid naturally leads to a preference for meatballs.... (A character that can only eat meat and can restore health and sanity by fighting rather than through food) For the record, I mean no offense in all this I am just offering a logical explanation for the perception that meatballs need a fix.

But in my own experience, (Have in fact played every character with the exception of Willow, who is banned in my playgroup due to troll shenanigans) Meatballs are mostly used in the early stages of the game or when resources are scarce. Once we have a base set up our food supply mostly consists of Bacon and Eggs, Honey Ham, Jerky, and Dragon Pie, and I would say I am moderately experienced.

Meatballs just happens to be the easiest and fastest way to sanitize monster meat, so naturally you would see it frequently in short lived games or games with even one inexperienced player. But there are other more efficient ways... For example the previously mentioned bird cage, and I personally have a pig farm in my base where I specifically use my monster meat to either make manure through Werepigs or start a civil war among my Pigs to produce meat for my drying racks. As such, I can only imagine a change like this would deter new players while only making the early stages of the game more difficult, which is already where most of the difficulty is. As a result, I would not expect this to be a good design choice for the game at all.

Edited by G0dsend
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On 3/20/2017 at 5:00 PM, JohnWatson said:

I guess that means it's overpowered and that Klei should remove Kebab in order to maintain game balance.

Let's just turn all recipes that make dishes with 50+ of any stat into Wet Goop instead. We can't have OP foods!

jk

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37 minutes ago, Vixrotre said:

Wet Goop instead. We can't have OP foods!

dude what are you talking about, wet goop is op as hell.

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I do think wet goop should hurt you
it's weird it does nothing

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