Rant about prediction (UPDATE)

[TheKingofSquirrels]

This is a rant, be prepared.

I ******* hate multiplayer, I ******* hate it with everything I have in my ******* body. But I go back to it? Why? BECAUSE EVERYTHING COOL IS EXCLUSIVE TO ONLINE NOW APPARENTLY: Clothes, Beefalo riding and EVERYTHING. I'm sick of it.

My biggest problem is the movement prediction crap. It makes half the players invisible. It's ******* ********. Can't Klei deactivate that? Surely, it must make sense right?!? WHY THE **** IS THERE A ******* MAGIC TRICK THAT MAKES YOU ******* INVINCIBLE IN THE GAME!?!? HOW THE **** HAS THIS NOT BEEN CHANGED YET!?!?

Anyway, this is me after 3 hours of playing, where I was prepping up and arming myself up for hours. When I was finally ready, I found a Wigfrid, with barely any armour, but FOR SOME REASON, I CAN'T GET A SINGLE ******* HIT!!! AND I DIE, JUST LIKE THAT. I am loosing my ******* mind here. 

IF YOU ARE USING PREDICTION, YOU ARE CHEATING. END OF STORY.

**** this ******* broken game AND **** EVERYONE WHO USES PREDICTION. 

EDIT

So now that I've had some time to calm down and reflected a bit about this, I would like to share some thoughts in a calm and mature manner.

First off, I like to apologise for my previous transgression. I was very upset, but that is still no excuse for my awful behaviour. I am deeply sorry. 

Second, It is to my view that the use of movement prediction disablement is a very large problem in PvP, one that Klei should address immediately. At the moment (to my knowledge) they have not made a single comment on this, which does not surprise me, I believe that this is likely due to the fact that they are simply not aware of how large a scale this issue is causing for the PvP side of DST. This is because most players are not aware of it, and those that are aware of it, are more than happy to keep it secret so they can exploit it and continue cheating. Most of the players that show up on the "Strictly Non Profesional PVP" servers are part of this group of cheaters, players such as Flappy (can't remember his full name) and SummerScorcher are cheating.

From day 1, people have been cheating and disabling movement prediction, giving them invulnerability against half the players out there. This divides the community and makes PvP an unpleasant experience. 

If Klei has any respect for their customers, they will comment on this issue immediately. 

If this prediction issue canno't be fixed, a solution I propose is having more indirect methods of defends towards players who are using it. The use of player traps (Toothtraps and Bee Mines) that players can put down I believe would work. The amount of times a Wolfgang has popped from the corner of my screen and there being nothing I can do because fighting him is impossible because he has prediction off is unbearable. 

 

[TheKingofSquirrels]

I'm done. I uninstalled it. Klei fix your ****. 

[Mikeadatrix]

Sadly... I agree 100% with this. I was Wigfrid and playing with my mate who was also Wigfrid and because of them using prediction, I got royally screwed when we had equal odds of beating each other. In the end he took 4% damage to his helm and 1 hit point....      

[Mario384]

A moment of silence for our fallen comrades.

 

Anywho, I'm just saying that everyone should still have access to turning off prediction, though maybe allow it to be changed in the options instead instead of using a command.

Also, thanks for telling me to love myself, beats me why you censored it.

[or1239]

Movement Prediction aside,

This uh...should be more constructive.

[TheKingofSquirrels]

21 minutes ago, Mario384 said:

A moment of silence for our fallen comrades.

 

Anywho, I'm just saying that everyone should still have access to turning off prediction, though maybe allow it to be changed in the options instead instead of using a command.

Also, thanks for telling me to love myself, beats me why you censored it.

or maybe just take out entirely....

14 minutes ago, or1239 said:

Movement Prediction aside,

This uh...should be more constructive.

I was constructive... A year ago, but they never listen, they havent even mentioned this as an issue. This has been a long time coming

[TheKingofSquirrels]

22 minutes ago, Mario384 said:

A moment of silence for our fallen comrades.

 

Anywho, I'm just saying that everyone should still have access to turning off prediction, though maybe allow it to be changed in the options instead instead of using a command.

Also, thanks for telling me to love myself, beats me why you censored it.

sorry about that, I'm just so furious

[or1239]

5 minutes ago, TheKingofSquirrels said:

I was constructive... A year ago, but they never listen, they havent mentioned this as an issue. This has been a long time coming

Always be constructive,

Just because you think they didn't hear you doesn't mean you should swich to caps.

[CarlZalph]

As it stands movement prediction is pretty bad due to the lack of client-server synchronization and no lag compensation.

 

I wouldn't recommend anyone using it for any reason at the moment.

[TheKingofSquirrels]

16 minutes ago, CarlZalph said:

As it stands movement prediction is pretty bad due to the lack of client-server synchronization and no lag compensation.

 

I wouldn't recommend anyone using it for any reason at the moment.

then it should be disabled by default

[oCrapaCreeper]

 

 

I'm sorry. Generally speaking, I think the situation with movement prediction needs to be handled with but I'm not quite sure how. Some better alternative to it for start would be obvious, that way one doesn't have an advantage over another because they know a console command.

[Mikeadatrix]

6 minutes ago, oCrapaCreeper said:

 

I'm sorry

Creeper, I love ya man. But this is not helpful in any sense of the matter.

[Schism_989]

I'm sorry to sound like a know-it-all, you do realize there's a command you can use to disable it, right? Can't remember what it was. There's also that client mod that disables it automatically (No More Lag on SteamWorkshop). Plus, I'm sure Klei has much more things to worry about than this, as well as the constant other ******** that gets thrown at them, like Shipwrecked in PS4 or DST (I agee, but it's making too much of a hassle) Multiplayer benefits in the original Don't Starve (Again, I agree, but people complain about it too much for me to care). This is all my personal experience and personal opinion.

[CarlZalph]

20 minutes ago, TheKingofSquirrels said:

then it should be disabled by default

It's the tradeoff of the illusion of good movement and not.

If it's off by default then there will be a lot of complaints from the folks who don't know of networking about how the input is laggy and/or unresponsive.

 

I feel that the movement prediction portion of the engine should be worked on more if it isn't already.

[Mikeadatrix]

18 minutes ago, Schism_989 said:

I'm sorry to sound like a know-it-all, you do realize there's a command you can use to disable it, right? Can't remember what it was. There's also that client mod that disables it automatically (No More Lag on SteamWorkshop). Plus, I'm sure Klei has much more things to worry about than this, as well as the constant other ******** that gets thrown at them, like Shipwrecked in PS4 or DST (I agee, but it's making too much of a hassle) Multiplayer benefits in the original Don't Starve (Again, I agree, but people complain about it too much for me to care). This is all my personal experience and personal opinion.

Why even have it in the first place?! I've used the mod and it's horrid. The command is decent. But why have prediction anyway? There is none. That's why this thread is here. To change something, not to live with it.

[Schism_989]

4 minutes ago, Mikeadatrix said:

Why even have it in the first place?! I've used the mod and it's horrid. The command is decent. But why have prediction anyway? There is none. That's why this thread is here. To change something, not to live with it.

True. I agree, the system is bad, and should be either removed or at least have a manual on/off switch, but I feel like it'll be a while before it gets worked on.

[ButterStuffed]

I just want to feasibly play new updates without having to delve into the game files every single time.

Please.. Just an option would make things a whole lot easier..

[ConfusedCourier]

Why are you even playing PVP if you just want the DST exclusive content?...

[verm1ll1on]

Hey, noob here.

 

What is Movement Prediction and how does it work?

[rezecib]

I think an important explaining part of this got glossed over...

First, what is movement prediction? Basically, there's delay between when you say "move left" and when the server hears "move left", and there's also delay between when the server says "dude, you moved left" and the client hears it back. Movement prediction is about the client trying to predict what's happening on the server. This can work well for some things, but it can interfere with actions that rely on knowing your exact position, because the client is kinda fudging it.

Second, there are two main (and really separate) issues with movement prediction that I know of:

1. PvE: While it makes the game feel smoother, it actually harms your play in several ways. First, it seems to result in "stutter-stepping" on the server when you get lag, which basically just results in you moving more slowly. Second, because you're not actually where it looks like you are, you get hit by things that look like they shouldn't be able to. Third, using F or space bar can result in weird targeting because of the differences in position.
2. PvP: Apparently there are bugs in the server-side checking of some actions that are possible when using movement prediction. This allows, among perhaps other things (I really don't play PvP, but I hear about it), attacking while moving. It sounds like something like that was the source of the OP's anger.

Solutions to these issues:

1. This is difficult to really "fix", because many of these problems are pretty inherent to movement prediction. The stutter-stepping, however, should definitely be possible to fix. I'm guessing this is due to how movements are communicated, and changing that communication should result in better behavior. However, one thing that could help a lot would be having a toggle for movement prediction in the options. That would not at all solve #2, though.
2. The only way to really fix this is to shore up the server-side code to make sure that it really does prevent these actions that are only possible by the obviously mangled client prediction code, and then ideally also fix the mangled client prediction code.

I just want to say that both of these things are really hard to do. Movement prediction is difficult to code, difficult to understand, and because of the complex nature, hard to get good feedback from players about. This is why I've always been against movement prediction, but I guess that's kind of besides the point now...

[Faintly Macabre]

The only thing that looks sillier than writing a post with the f-bomb every other word is writing a post that would have the f-bomb for every other word but has asterisks where they would be instead.

2 hours ago, ConfusedCourier said:

Why are you even playing PVP if you just want the DST exclusive content?...

This. It baffles me that someone who despises the online play is engaging in the one thing truly impossible in single player (mods could (possibly have?) put riding and clothes in). Honestly DST PvP in general confuses me. It seems unbalanced and un-fun, and I never would have expected the game to be very well-optimized for it. Good PvP isn't really something you can wing.

I wonder if anybody's considered the possibility that there's a reason they don't want to can this feature. It's something people complain about all the time, and certainly it must be simpler to put in an on/off switch than it is to implement the saltlick we just got. There must be something else to it, right? I suppose you could argue they should share that with us, but everybody seems to be assuming it doesn't serve any purpose but to annoy you.

[rezecib]

1 hour ago, TheHalcyonOne said:

it must be simpler to put in an on/off switch than it is to implement the saltlick we just got. There must be something else to it, right?

Yup, and nope. There's already a console command for toggling it, which can be done arbitrarily in-game, so all they have to do is make a button for it somewhere.

[CaptainChaotica]

I never PvP, but even in PvE, as far as I've been able to tell?  Movement-prediction is just ANNOYING.  It's fine on servers without lag, but the second you run into one that does have some, things get jerky and slow and it just..._feels_...weird.  I don't know how to describe it, but when you're really into a game and the controls suddenly don't respond in the natural way you're used to, it's just...geh.

I've tried the No More Lag mod, but only briefly.  I'll have to give it another go before I decide whether I like it or not.  There's got to be some programming/bandwidth reason why movement prediction is a thing to begin with, but beats me how it works.

Also thanks for explaining it, rezecib.  This is definitely the kind of thread that could leave a lot of people confused.  Me, I had _kind_ of an idea what movement prediction was? but not entirely. 

Last but not least, KingofSquirrels' original post is the reason why I go around using such...creatively colourful metaphors, on this forum--I'd rather censor myself by choice than have a program do it for me.  Also that way I have an excuse to use British slang, foreign words, and even sci-fi references*.  You can KEEP your frakking movement prediction and kick it straight in the mivonks!

So much more fun. 

...Notorious

*Or you can be all formal like in this one WTFIWWY story--an old man stormed into a supermarket, yelled at them for not having his favourite soda, tried to get his money back on a soda _he hadn't bought there_ (?) and swore up a blue streak in so doing. The article censored him...creatively:

"Sexual intercourse you, posterior-hole!  This is the excrement you should sexual intercoursing have!"

(dies laughing)

[AnonymousKoala]

7 hours ago, TheKingofSquirrels said:

This is a rant, be prepared.

I ******* hate multiplayer, I ******* hate it with everything I have in my ******* body. But I go back to it? Why? BECAUSE EVERYTHING COOL IS EXCLUSIVE TO ONLINE NOW APPARENTLY: Clothes, Beefalo riding and EVERYTHING. I'm sick of it.

Did you ignore the 500 responses to your thread about content being sepereted between multiplayer and singleplayer?

The quite a few responses of "Klei already said they'll import the content when they can" and the fact THEY'RE NOT EVEN DONE MAKING THE CONTENT, so why would the port of it be done already?

28 minutes ago, CaptainChaotica said:

I never PvP, but even in PvE, as far as I've been able to tell?  Movement-prediction is just ANNOYING.  It's fine on servers without lag, but the second you run into one that does have some, things get jerky and slow and it just..._feels_...weird.  I don't know how to describe it, but when you're really into a game and the controls suddenly don't respond in the natural way you're used to, it's just...geh.

I've tried the No More Lag mod, but only briefly.  I'll have to give it another go before I decide whether I like it or not.  There's got to be some programming/bandwidth reason why movement prediction is a thing to begin with, but beats me how it works.

Also thanks for explaining it, rezecib.  This is definitely the kind of thread that could leave a lot of people confused.  Me, I had _kind_ of an idea what movement prediction was? but not entirely. 

Last but not least, KingofSquirrels' original post is the reason why I go around using such...creatively colourful metaphors, on this forum--I'd rather censor myself by choice than have a program do it for me.  Also that way I have an excuse to use British slang, foreign words, and even sci-fi references*.  You can KEEP your frakking movement prediction and kick it straight in the mivonks!

So much more fun. 

...Notorious

*Or you can be all formal like in this one WTFIWWY story--an old man stormed into a supermarket, yelled at them for not having his favourite soda, tried to get his money back on a soda _he hadn't bought there_ (?) and swore up a blue streak in so doing. The article censored him...creatively:

"Sexual intercourse you, posterior-hole!  This is the excrement you should sexual intercoursing have!"

(dies laughing)

You have no idea how hard I laughed when I read this.

[CaptainChaotica]

I KNOW!  : P  Ohmygod.  This isn't an _exact_ quote, but the article was pretty much like that every time it quoted the guy.  Way funnier than just using asterisks or things like "fudge", "dang", or "flip".

(Also, how much sense does:  "You should sell this drink here and since you don't and I'm angry, I want my money back on this bottle of soda you don't sell!" make.  Ummmm...huh?  And that's _mild_ by the weirdness standards of that show.)

ANYway.  Movement prediction and lag.  Right, right...

Is movement prediction the thing that causes rubberbanding/boomeranging, sometimes--or is it the thing meant to help prevent it?  Speaking of things that startle the crap out of me by throwing off my "flow" while playing, that's WORSE than Wolfgang going "I don't feel so good" in the middle of a hound-chase.

...Notorious