Are either fertilizer makers or electrolizers net power positive?

[ProfMembrane]

i've made a room with a bunch of oxidizers, a gas pump and a filter to filter out hydrogen into a generator, same with fertilizer makers and a gas generator, is the amount of hydrogen or natural gas enough to produce enough energy to power these things themselves?  Is there some amount I need to get to?  

[BlueLance]

if by oxidisers you mean Electrolyzers then yes they can be, if not im not sure. as for fert makers no they cannot be

[ProfMembrane]

1. Edited, yes, I did mean electrolizers, thank you.

2. How do I get them to be, so far it's not producing a reliable amount of hydrogen.

[blash365]

There used to be a way to gain more power out of fertilizer makers. So if you stumble across youtube videos saying so, they might be a bit old.

Just now, ProfMembrane said:

2. How do I get them to be, so far it's not producing a reliable amount of hydrogen.

 

[Kabrute]

by removing the power cost of filtering hydrogen.

using a valve and an in pipe element sensor or build the room so that the hydrogen pump is in a restricted space, and use an element sensor to only turn the pump on when its flooded(i do mean flooded) with hydrogen, or use a mechanical filter.

[ProfMembrane]

1. What do you mean a mechanical filter

2. How can I both isolate them so the hydrogen only goes other generator ,but also let the oxygen they make get to the colony?

3. Also, why do I need so many weezeworts for this?

[0xFADE]

Mechanical filter let’s an electrolyzer room give off a lot of excess power. Do a search for it on this forum. Mechanical filters are great.

I use a mostly over pressure room with 4 electrolyzers and 2 pumps that is open on the bottom. 

[Pyrrus]

15 minutes ago, Kabrute said:

by removing the power cost of filtering hydrogen.

Even with powered filtering the electrolizers are (just barely) power positive. Using 2 pumps and 2 filters for each electrolizer you can make an entirely self contained system needing just a coal gen to jump start it.

[Neotuck]

52 minutes ago, Pyrrus said:

Even with powered filtering the electrolizers are (just barely) power positive. Using 2 pumps and 2 filters for each electrolizer you can make an entirely self contained system needing just a coal gen to jump start it.

Why coal gen?

Wouldn't a hamster wheel be easier to jumpstart?

[Pyrrus]

35 minutes ago, Neotuck said:

Why coal gen?

Wouldn't a hamster wheel be easier to jumpstart?

Ah, heh, Any power works of course. I just tend to use coal gens for all my early power needs so I defaulted to that...

[Soulwind]

1 hour ago, Pyrrus said:

Even with powered filtering the electrolizers are (just barely) power positive. Using 2 pumps and 2 filters for each electrolizer you can make an entirely self contained system needing just a coal gen to jump start it.

If you're going with a gas filter setup, you really only need 1 filter. Build the room in a vacuum and it will only ever contain O2 and H2.  Filter the H2 and let the O2 pass through (or vice versa). 

Personally, I prefer the gas shutoff/element sensor method.  That's just my preference though, I have had issues with occasional packet slippage using gas separation method and I like a 100% safe method even if it does cost me some refined metal and 20 watts of power.

[Pyrrus]

Just now, Soulwind said:

If you're going with a gas filter setup, you really only need 1 filter. Build the room in a vacuum and it will only ever contain O2 and H2.  Filter the H2 and let the O2 pass through (or vice versa). 

True, but I wanted a design that idled the electrolizer the least, was robust (no potential for gas slipping where it shouldn't), and easily expandable. I've had issues with packet slippage on the gas shutoff filter method when the game lags, or when the system backs up.

Spoiler

So

So... this is waaay overbuilt (supplies a potential 200 dupes) but it works without trouble under all load conditions.

 

[avc15]

3 hours ago, Pyrrus said:

Even with powered filtering the electrolizers are (just barely) power positive. Using 2 pumps and 2 filters for each electrolizer you can make an entirely self contained system needing just a coal gen to jump start it.

The biggest point of brokenness with electrolyzers is the following. Throw away any oxygen they're producing (vent it to space for instance) and just capture the hydrogen. Now you are just plain converting water into electrical power at break neck speeds. Since your H2 production will be completely unrestricted by oxygen pressure (as it usually is restricted by o2 pressure) you can just make as much power as you want.

Who will do that? Well, anyone that has extra water.

You end up powering just the following:

- Just barely enough cooling to condense the output of your steam vents to water at 99C

- A fraction of a pump to pipe water in from steam vents

- Electrolyzers

- A fraction of a gas pump to pipe hydrogen out

- A tiny bit extra to cycle doors and vent your low pressure oxygen tank to space, or some other method for venting (might be able to get this for free but it would take some careful arrangement)

See, unlimited power throughput from electrolysis only limited by how much extra water your seed has. Now you just need my seed (two very above average geysers lined up perfectly one on top of the other):

[beowulf2010]

@avc15, dude, what seed is that? I love seeds that have multiple complementary geysers close like that.

I really miss that 3 Nat Gas Geyser in 1 screen seed... 

[Neotuck]

2 minutes ago, beowulf2010 said:

@avc15, dude, what seed is that? I love seeds that have multiple complementary geysers close like that.

I really miss that 3 Nat Gas Geyser in 1 screen seed... 

try this one Seed: 1949537531

[avc15]

I also just posted mine in the seed thread here. I don't know activity cycles but both vents have an eruption rate over 5kg /s and around 50% eruption cycle. And mine has a gold volcano, and a PO2 vent, and all 4 are very near the start biome.

[beowulf2010]

Thanks @avc15and @Neotuck. 

[ProfMembrane]

What are those weird tanks 

2 hours ago, Pyrrus said:

True, but I wanted a design that idled the electrolizer the least, was robust (no potential for gas slipping where it shouldn't), and easily expandable. I've had issues with packet slippage on the gas shutoff filter method when the game lags, or when the system backs up.

  Hide contents

So

So... this is waaay overbuilt (supplies a potential 200 dupes) but it works without trouble under all load conditions.

What are those weird tanks under the generators?

 

[Pyrrus]

Just now, ProfMembrane said:

What are those weird tanks

Those are the new gas storage tanks. I wanted to have some buffer for the hydrogen to allow for fluctuations in the system.

[ProfMembrane]

2 minutes ago, Pyrrus said:

Those are the new gas storage tanks. I wanted to have some buffer for the hydrogen to allow for fluctuations in the system.

I don't see those in the tech tree, where are they?

[avc15]

industrial storage

below celestial detection

[beowulf2010]

Just now, ProfMembrane said:

I don't see those in the tech tree, where are they?

To research them, scroll the research window to the right. (Click on the background and move the mouse left) 

Once researched, they appear in the Base (1) building tab. 

[ProfMembrane]

Ok, here is my setup, it's barely generating any hydrogenany advice? I tried filling that whole thing with electrolizers, still nothing.

[QuQuasar]

Attach a smart battery to your generator. At the moment you're burning hydrogen without consuming the power it produces. 

[Neotuck]

11 minutes ago, ProfMembrane said:

Ok, here is my setup

never block the top and bottom of an electrolizer, you'll end up with too much gas deletion