BadlyBurned Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 Can someone explain to me why anyone would wants Pufts over Dense Pufts? Dense Pufts are so much easier to ranch.. like a million times easier. They eat oxygen and their output is actually useful for something now. If you were using Pufts for eggs/lime, then switching to Dense Pufts would get you the same result If you were using Pufts for slime, the only reason I can think of would be that you want to then convert it to algae, as in the late late game you shouldn't be on mushrooms anymore with the QoL changes. Am I missing something here to the usefulness of Pufts and the efforts I see above to creating a proper stable and food supply? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/95039-the-lack-of-po2-production-and-puft-ranching-is-out-of-balance/page/2/#findComment-1079667 Share on other sites More sharing options...
KittenIsAGeek Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 Just now, BadlyBurned said: Can someone explain to me why anyone would wants Pufts over Dense Pufts? Dense Pufts are so much easier to ranch.. like a million times easier. They eat oxygen and their output is actually useful for something now. If you were using Pufts for eggs/lime, then switching to Dense Pufts would get you the same result If you were using Pufts for slime, the only reason I can think of would be that you want to then convert it to algae, as in the late late game you shouldn't be on mushrooms anymore with the QoL changes. Am I missing something here to the usefulness of Pufts and the efforts I see above to creating a proper stable and food supply? Slime. For mushrooms. Pufts produce slime, which is a necessary component of mushroom farming. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/95039-the-lack-of-po2-production-and-puft-ranching-is-out-of-balance/page/2/#findComment-1079669 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Raptor Posted August 31, 2018 Author Share Posted August 31, 2018 1 hour ago, BadlyBurned said: Can someone explain to me why anyone would wants Pufts over Dense Pufts? Dense Pufts are so much easier to ranch.. like a million times easier. They eat oxygen and their output is actually useful for something now. If you were using Pufts for eggs/lime, then switching to Dense Pufts would get you the same result If you were using Pufts for slime, the only reason I can think of would be that you want to then convert it to algae, as in the late late game you shouldn't be on mushrooms anymore with the QoL changes. Am I missing something here to the usefulness of Pufts and the efforts I see above to creating a proper stable and food supply? Because normal pufts produce slime, which is very useful for mushroom farming. Also, you can't just "move to dense pufts" after you get the first one. This is not how it works with pufts, dense pufts won't create more dense pufts by themselves, they need a prince around them, and a prince needs PO2. Basically you always need to keep a breeding ranch with 1 prince + X pufts to keep producing squeeky/dense pufts. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/95039-the-lack-of-po2-production-and-puft-ranching-is-out-of-balance/page/2/#findComment-1079670 Share on other sites More sharing options...
suicide commando Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 You're missing @BadlyBurned main point, that mushrooms are a quality 1 food, so in the late game you do not want to rely on them as your source of food. Which means the only other product you can make with pufts, algae, is the reason you're farming them. Feeding Pacu with it algae produced in this manner is a terrible idea however, as the amount of pufts you need to feed even 1 pacu is something like 27 or so. EDIT: you also produce pH2O from slime, so if you're really short on water, you can get it through cleaning this, in which case offgassing pH2O is a bad idea as you're not going to make more water this way. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/95039-the-lack-of-po2-production-and-puft-ranching-is-out-of-balance/page/2/#findComment-1079692 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadlyBurned Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 2 minutes ago, suicide commando said: You're missing @BadlyBurned main point, that mushrooms are a quality 1 food, so in the late game you do not want to rely on them as your source of food. Which means the only other product you can make with pufts, algae, is the reason you're farming them. Feeding Pacu with it algae produced in this manner is a terrible idea however, as the amount of pufts you need to feed even 1 pacu is something like 27 or so. You nailed it.. also, I know Dense Pufts don't have a 100% laying rate for more Dense Pufts, but I thought it was enough to maintain some autoranching. You'd only need one Dense Puft egg from a Dense Puft in its entire life cycle to make it renewable. All my critters go to meat now.. I use slime for maybe the first 150 days before my auto-slaughter houses are set up. Even at that point, I have tons and tons and tons of slime left over that I never used. Mushrooms don't need much, and again, with the QoL change why would you want to stay on them forever and need a renewable source? Its not a complaint of this post or anything like that, I just want to see if I'm missing something about Pufts that makes them more useful than I thought they were. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/95039-the-lack-of-po2-production-and-puft-ranching-is-out-of-balance/page/2/#findComment-1079697 Share on other sites More sharing options...
psusi Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 How the hell are you going to get 100 tonns of liquid in there? The vent stops once it is covered in 1t of liquid. Algae and slime can be fed to sage hatches for coal. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/95039-the-lack-of-po2-production-and-puft-ranching-is-out-of-balance/page/2/#findComment-1079701 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasza22 Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 No machines output polluted oxygen. A while ago i was thinking of a tier 3 toilet and thought we could use one that vaporizes "the output" and turns it into pO2. I didn`t find this useful but maybe with a puft setup it might be something worth considering. As for slime we probably need to rely on rockets bringing some from the organic mass. At least for next patch. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/95039-the-lack-of-po2-production-and-puft-ranching-is-out-of-balance/page/2/#findComment-1079703 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cantouki Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 imo Morbs should expell 50g/s Polluted Oxygen, not 25g/s and the slime conversion rate should be bumped up to 0.9 for the Puft and 0.5 for the Puft Prince. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/95039-the-lack-of-po2-production-and-puft-ranching-is-out-of-balance/page/2/#findComment-1079707 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saturnus Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 12 minutes ago, psusi said: How the hell are you going to get 100 tonns of liquid in there? The vent stops once it is covered in 1t of liquid. There will never be 1t liquid covering the vent. Build it and you'll see A pocket of gas will be trapped where the vent is and will never go away no matter how much liquid you pump in. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/95039-the-lack-of-po2-production-and-puft-ranching-is-out-of-balance/page/2/#findComment-1079708 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Raptor Posted August 31, 2018 Author Share Posted August 31, 2018 47 minutes ago, suicide commando said: You're missing @BadlyBurned main point, that mushrooms are a quality 1 food, so in the late game you do not want to rely on them as your source of food. Which means the only other product you can make with pufts, algae, is the reason you're farming them. Feeding Pacu with it algae produced in this manner is a terrible idea however, as the amount of pufts you need to feed even 1 pacu is something like 27 or so. EDIT: you also produce pH2O from slime, so if you're really short on water, you can get it through cleaning this, in which case offgassing pH2O is a bad idea as you're not going to make more water this way. They are perfectly fine for a late game food. The morale bonuses can be gotten elsewhere. My 800+ base lives on mushrooms, and all dupes are 30+ morale because I use shine bug farms to keep them at +12 constant morale, from there its easy to get up to 30. Furthermore, if you leave 2-3 ice biomes intact, you can harvest a lot of sleet wheat every now and then. By late game you generally have secondary food source, such as BBQ if you ran a pacu farm for steel production, so there is that as well. Anyway thats off topic. So to sum up till now...there is no way to get enough PO2 to sustain any reasonable puft farm without using shady game mechanics that are probably going to be fixed one way or another, or a gazillion of morbs... So the problem remains... Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/95039-the-lack-of-po2-production-and-puft-ranching-is-out-of-balance/page/2/#findComment-1079711 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnis Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 1 hour ago, Steve Raptor said: Anyway thats off topic. So to sum up till now...there is no way to get enough PO2 to sustain any reasonable puft farm without using shady game mechanics that are probably going to be fixed one way or another, or a gazillion of morbs... So the problem remains... Something I cooked up earlier & I tested a 50% PO / 50% PW stable will feed your pufts 100%. 64 tiles so 4 pufts, but you can continue it horizontally, for 6 pufts/96 tiles. Never actually used it, my current save has a famine (outgrowing food production), but still we have 100t of slime unused: Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/95039-the-lack-of-po2-production-and-puft-ranching-is-out-of-balance/page/2/#findComment-1079736 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hpongledd Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 5 hours ago, Steve Raptor said: A gazillion of morbs..that is the problem i'm discussing. PW has no weight compared to the insane amount of morbs you have there... i tend to overkill stuff but generelly speaking you need around ~3-4 morbs per puft Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/95039-the-lack-of-po2-production-and-puft-ranching-is-out-of-balance/page/2/#findComment-1079793 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagdar Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 Se mantiene bien Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/95039-the-lack-of-po2-production-and-puft-ranching-is-out-of-balance/page/2/#findComment-1079800 Share on other sites More sharing options...
suicide commando Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 For the rocketry upgrade, +30 morale might not be enough, as the astronaut job is like tier 7 or 8, so it needs a very high morale boost, which means every point counts, including food. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/95039-the-lack-of-po2-production-and-puft-ranching-is-out-of-balance/page/2/#findComment-1079815 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flydo Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 New liquid reservoir creating polluted oxygen like hell when fill with polluted water Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/95039-the-lack-of-po2-production-and-puft-ranching-is-out-of-balance/page/2/#findComment-1079830 Share on other sites More sharing options...
KittenIsAGeek Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 3 minutes ago, Flydo said: New liquid reservoir creating polluted oxygen like hell when fill with polluted water That was patched yesterday. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/95039-the-lack-of-po2-production-and-puft-ranching-is-out-of-balance/page/2/#findComment-1079832 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flydo Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 Is for that, but it always create some polluted oxygen? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/95039-the-lack-of-po2-production-and-puft-ranching-is-out-of-balance/page/2/#findComment-1079835 Share on other sites More sharing options...
clickrush Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 Did everyone just completely forget about morbs or did I miss something? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/95039-the-lack-of-po2-production-and-puft-ranching-is-out-of-balance/page/2/#findComment-1079836 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slvrsrfr Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 If pO2 is a moving liquid not vastly deep, being circulated, is that a better scenario? Kinda like drip cooling, only just giving it the most time and space to vent. A circuitous tunnel is what I imagine, two or three tiles tall, with obtrusion's and drops to ventilate and disperse? And additionally, how productive could composting be as a supplement to pO2 production? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/95039-the-lack-of-po2-production-and-puft-ranching-is-out-of-balance/page/2/#findComment-1079888 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Raptor Posted September 1, 2018 Author Share Posted September 1, 2018 9 hours ago, clickrush said: Did everyone just completely forget about morbs or did I miss something? Yeah....you missed the original post. 10 hours ago, suicide commando said: For the rocketry upgrade, +30 morale might not be enough, as the astronaut job is like tier 7 or 8, so it needs a very high morale boost, which means every point counts, including food. Although I think that with arcade + jukebox and espresso you can get to 30+ morale, that was before the showers buff even. Il check my save. Out of the entire colony, you will probably have at the maximum 1-2 astronauts. Those two can eat BBQs and pepperbreads while the rest of the colony, mushrooms. EDIT: just checked my save file, and all dupes run from 24-28, that was before the showers buffs. There is no re-creation room, and there is no downtime buff, that was also added in RU. So you can get to 30 naturally with just adding showers and the +1 downtime block minimum buff. Then there are omelettes and frost buns which are even more cost effective than pepperbread, that can push you to ~35 -40 morale. Anyway, point is its very easy to push past 30 morale without spending water on bristles/sleet wheat or high food in general. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/95039-the-lack-of-po2-production-and-puft-ranching-is-out-of-balance/page/2/#findComment-1079948 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neotuck Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 Usually I don't ranch Pufts anymore unless I find an infectious polluted O2 vent and I still end up adding a few Morbs to feed a full ranch If they adjust the PO2 vents like they did with the natural gas vents then maybe Puft farming will be worth it Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/95039-the-lack-of-po2-production-and-puft-ranching-is-out-of-balance/page/2/#findComment-1079992 Share on other sites More sharing options...
NanoD Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 Here you go a easy to setup system that produces 300 kg/ cycle polluted oxygen with out any cheats. It wasnt that hard. Sure I made it in debuge mode but it is not hard to build it if you want. If you dont think it is cheaty you can build if you want 300 kg a cycle about 16 metal refineries filled with polluted water produces that. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/95039-the-lack-of-po2-production-and-puft-ranching-is-out-of-balance/page/2/#findComment-1080036 Share on other sites More sharing options...
KittenIsAGeek Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 6 minutes ago, NanoD said: Here you go a easy to setup system that produces 300 kg/ cycle polluted oxygen with out any cheats. It wasnt that hard. Sure I made it in debuge mode but it is not hard to build it if you want. If you dont thing it is cheaty you can build if you want 300 kg a cycle about 16 metal refineries filled with polluted water produces that. You can get a decent output from the runoff from your generators as it traces a similar path on its way down to the reservoir. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/95039-the-lack-of-po2-production-and-puft-ranching-is-out-of-balance/page/2/#findComment-1080038 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slvrsrfr Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 thanks guys those examples are perfect! Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/95039-the-lack-of-po2-production-and-puft-ranching-is-out-of-balance/page/2/#findComment-1080040 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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