Gender "X"?

[Bluckles]

2 hours ago, watermelen671 said:

 

Personality refers to individual differences in characteristic patterns of thinking, feeling and behaving.

Gender refers to the state of being male or female (typically used with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones).

 

2

So what is the state of being male or female in reference to social and cultural differences?

Can you give me an example?

[watermelen671]

49 minutes ago, Bluckles said:

So what is the state of being male or female in reference to social and cultural differences?

Can you give me an example?

Askin the wrong person dude.

2 hours ago, Oozinator said:

Mhh sounds not really logic to me, because of suits..

Suits are clothing, they can wear the suits on their own, without the helm on...and besides, I saw ACTUAL clothing...in you know where.

Spoiler

 

[leomunoz]

...gender not included...

[Bluckles]

2 hours ago, watermelen671 said:

Askin the wrong person dude.

 

im going to take what you said with a grain of salt then.

[watermelen671]

Just now, Bluckles said:

im going to take what you said with a grain of salt then.

Brug, I'm just going off of what friends who have actual knowledge on this matter told me. I'm cis, and as such I can't really make a statement that's informative on the matter, because I don't have the experience needed to mate such a statement. I just suggest doing some digging for yourself, is all.

[ExtollerOfTrolls]

I agree with @watermelen671, the dupes are probably created from DNA that's been taken from humans, but modified them to be printed without genitals. They are unable to reproduce. They decide what they want to be, and if they consider themselves genderless, so be it.

I have my own view on these issues, but I don't think the forums is a place for these discussions, and I think that conclusion offends the least amount of people.

[CaptainChaotica]

...wow.  All I meant with my original post is, _binary is not all there is_, and that's real life we're talking about.  In case anyone was wondering, I'm not one of those "15 genders Tumblrtards"--if a form asking for your gender or sex includes "other" (or even "prefer not to say"), I consider that plenty good enough.  All you need is to acknowledge at all, and that's fine.  If you're freaked out or confused by my saying "humans can be other things besides just BOY or GIRL", then...too bad, it's the 21st century.  Non-binary people exist.  Don't know what to tell you, they just do.  And in some non-western/European-based cultures, they've been around for a long time.

(If the "REAL small furry creatures from Alpha Centauri!" bit confused you--that's from Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy and was meant as a joke.  Also thrown in because ONI is sci-fi as well.  There's a bit where they're talking about the Old Galactic Empire or whatever and a line about "Back in those days, men were REAL men.  Women were REAL women!  And small furry creatures from Alpha Centauri, were REAL small furry creatures from Alpha Centauri!")

As for dupes...well, first of all, like I said, this is a modern-day game.  Thumbs up to Klei for acknowledging that there _are_ other options, and doing so in a small, not-noticeable-unless-you-dig way is the perfect way to do so.  Not IN YOUR FACE, but just there.

Anyway.  The dupes also live in a FUTURE society, anyway, so there's even less reason they have to conform to our modern norms.  I mean, they've got magic guns that can do anything if you change the setting.  And PEOPLE-printing!  We don't..._quite_ have that yet. : P  They could also quite easily be from a whole other universe, so it might not even be _our_ future at all...

As to the "their clothes are their body" thing...now I'm thinking of the Gems from Steven Universe, and how the idea of "clothes that aren't part of you?  Whatever will they think of next!" was a shocking idea.  I dunno, but I have seen Sims, for example, do their business on the toilet with their pants still all the way on; maybe it's like that.  Aka It's Just a Game, We Should Really Just Relax.  Heh.

...Notorious

[watermelen671]

6 minutes ago, CaptainChaotica said:

Aka It's Just a Game

UNACCEPTIBRU!! I EXPECT FULL REALISM IN MY COMPLETELY FICTIONAL VIDEO GAMES!!! WHERE IS MY HOVER BOARD DAMMIT?! IT'S 2018!!

[thewreckedangle]

so.. if non-binary people are.. not .. "100% stereotypical fe/male".. does that mean, binary people "100% are"? wow

[Skrivener]

13 hours ago, Yunru said:

Actually it's the end point of evolution, as noted in certain lizard species.

Eventually any given DNA based lifeform will result in a asexual, mono-gendered species. Which is sad because that's an end to evolution to, as they basically clone themselves.

Sorry, but no, evolution has no goal nor end point, it's simply a process. There is no peak or pinnacle. Nor does asexual reproduction prevent mutation and thus evolution, and it's an earlier form of reproduction than sexual. Sexual reproduction hastens the speed of evolution by mixing genes in offspring as well as introducing competitive mating practices to bias selection for viability, but again it's just a process. 

[JustAPineapple]

It's representation which matters and Klei is cool for doing it nuff said

[eggsvbacon]

Honestly I thought Nails for example was just a male not giving a care about gender norms, or that hairstyles are just fun in the steampunk universe future. The bio sort of changed the ambiguity of it all, which is fine, I didn't really see the need, I found it meaningful when for example lifegrow would assume Nails was female. (At the time I thought Nails was just a really cool dude with a sick hairstyle I wish I could have.) (I paid attention to the eyes and the eyebrows for characteristics as at the time before the bio tab it was ambiguous.)

I like to think that someday we all won't give a care and can appear how ever we wish to and that everything be regarded as an expression of ones self and regarded as such. By all appearances Dupes appear to have overcome that.

[Yunru]

6 hours ago, Skrivener said:

Sorry, but no, evolution has no goal nor end point, it's simply a process. There is no peak or pinnacle. Nor does asexual reproduction prevent mutation and thus evolution, and it's an earlier form of reproduction than sexual. Sexual reproduction hastens the speed of evolution by mixing genes in offspring as well as introducing competitive mating practices to bias selection for viability, but again it's just a process. 

Nope. Once you reach the point where you're producing full clones, there is no deviance to drive evolution.

With asexual reproduction you've either full or half clones. Full clones are genetically identical to their parents and thus evolution waves goodbye.

 

Even if you introduce some trickery to do the genetic shuffle with yourself, you've a 50% chance of your offspring inheriting a double recessive or double dominant trait, permanently locking it for all future offspring.

 

And with the gender differences being caused by a ever-denaturing chromosome, eventually any DNA based species ends up mono-gendered.

 

EDIT: To summarize, evolution does have an end point, because... it stops. Processes can do that y'know.

[PhailRaptor]

33 minutes ago, Yunru said:

Nope. Once you reach the point where you're producing full clones, there is no deviance to drive evolution.

What exactly leads you to believe all evolution leads to producing clones?  Just because a few species of lizards have chosen that evolutionary route?

[Yunru]

15 minutes ago, PhailRaptor said:

What exactly leads you to believe all evolution leads to producing clones?  Just because a few species of lizards have chosen that evolutionary route?

Because leading to monogender-ness(?) is an inevitability, at which point parthenogenesis seems inevitable. 

[PhailRaptor]

4 minutes ago, Yunru said:

Because leading to monogender-ness(?) is an inevitability

Where on Earth are you getting this?

[Yunru]

3 minutes ago, PhailRaptor said:

Where on Earth are you getting this?

The Y chromosome is a slowly deteriorating one, getting shorter with each generation. Eventually, XY sexed creatures end up monogendered as a result.

[Skrivener]

17 hours ago, Yunru said:

The Y chromosome is a slowly deteriorating one, getting shorter with each generation. Eventually, XY sexed creatures end up monogendered as a result.

I'm sorry to correct you again, but you're misinformed as to how mutation and evolution work. There is variation even with asexual reproduction. , More than that, there are mechanisms to distribute mutations within a population even without reproduction at all (eg. bacterial plasmids). And if a species were to evolve to a state of zero variation (zero mutations, more or less impossible practically) then natural selection would eventually remove it and other, more adaptable, species would fill the niche and continue evolving.

[Yunru]

6 hours ago, Skrivener said:

I'm sorry to correct you again, but you're misinformed as to how mutation and evolution work. There is variation even with asexual reproduction. , More than that, there are mechanisms to distribute mutations within a population even without reproduction at all (eg. bacterial plasmids). And if a species were to evolve to a state of zero variation (zero mutations, more or less impossible practically) then natural selection would eventually remove it and other, more adaptable, species would fill the niche and continue evolving.

Oh yes, as a whole evolution marches on (I guess unless the area has been rendered completely inhospitable), but for a specific species...

Of course that also brings up the tricky semantics of "when does a species stop being that species"? 

It also doesn't work against my initial point: Species will tend towards (and with enough time, reach) a state of being mono-gendered and asexually reproducing.

[PhailRaptor]

13 minutes ago, Yunru said:

Species will tend towards (and with enough time, reach) a state of being mono-gendered and asexually reproducing.

I don't think the point has sufficient evidence to really need a counterpoint.  Unless we have a strong understanding of why the Y chromosome is deteriorating, and why none of the X chromosomes are doing so.  That itself may well be an evolutionary process that species must get around to continue adapting to shifting conditions.  A condition for which asexual reproduction is a viable evolutionary response, but not necessarily the only response.

[Skrivener]

9 hours ago, PhailRaptor said:

I don't think the point has sufficient evidence to really need a counterpoint. 

Precisely. Not to mention that our taxonomy and the label of "species" is a human construct and irrelevant to evolution as a process. Nor has the fact of asexual reproduction pre-dating sexual been addressed, nor that asexual reproduction does not prevent evolution. Heck, we can't prevent mutations in one lifespan, let alone across generations.

[NathairNimheil]

On 6/23/2018 at 5:06 AM, Yunru said:

Nope. Once you reach the point where you're producing full clones, there is no deviance to drive evolution.

 

You made the leap from asexual reproduction to exclusively "producing full clones". In reality, asexual reproduction allows a number of mechanisms for genetic variation even in organisms that also "produce full clones" . This should be obvious, really, since asexual reproduction is where evolution began and is still the way most organisms reproduce. Sexual reproduction evolved from asexual reproduction.

[Oozinator]

So much interesting knowledge!
Good that this thread is still alive.

[Raspberry Shake]

Is this entire thread people overthinking the genders of little videogame sprites to the point where it becomes as philosophical argument?

Spoiler

Now I'm just waiting for the part where the scientist kills his wife with a machine showing her the importance of fairy cake.

 

[TheOlz]

Klei is Canadian, Canada takes this self determined gender stuff seriously. (they've made laws around it)

They are either ahead of the rest of the world, or on some overly PC tangent.  It's really too early to tell from a western cultural perspective.

All I know is when I was growing up a dude in a skirt was funny, now apparently it's not and I'm supposed to be cool with them going to girls bathrooms.