Unlocking Characters

[kertinker]

So... you don't have to unlock characters in DST. But if you did, I was thinking of some neat ways to unlock them instead of just "experience points."

• Wilson and Winona come unlocked.
• Other characters unlock by finding their skull, and burying it in a grave.
• Wendy gets unlocked by finding her skull in a grave, so she's easy to unlock
• Willow's skull drops after you've burned enough stuff, maybe your own structures, or trees. Wildfires and lightning don't count.
• Woodie's skull drops after you've chopped enough trees.
• Maxwell's skull gets unlocked by dying, then haunting the Florid Postern, whereupon he spawns from it, says, "There's no escape from there." ...then dies and drops his skull.
• Wolfgang's skull drops when defeating Bearger, because they're both stronk, and they both eat all your food
• Wigfrid's skull drops once you've defeated enough monsters, that drop real meat.
• Wickerbottom's skull drops from defeating tentacles, where she perished searching for papyrus
• Webber's skull continues to drop from killing spiders, or possibly as a drop only from the spider queen
• WX-78's skull drops from defeating clockworks, but only if Webber lands the final blow
• Wes's skull drops if you construct an altar surrounded in thulecite walls, from all the defeated boss sculptures in a certain pattern around the Stagehand, sacrificing Glommer there on the full moon with 0% sanity.

[Nino123]

but webber's skull is lorewise. I guess he came from this island (maybe a Maxwell experience).

Other ones came with a portal.

[Zeklo]

34 minutes ago, kertinker said:

Willow's skull drops after you've burned enough stuff, maybe your own structures, or trees. Wildfires and lightning don't count.

You somehow made it even more griefy than what you original suggested.

[kertinker]

33 minutes ago, Zeklo said:

You somehow made it even more griefy than what you original suggested.

...it's Willow.

But yes, probably only trees should count, not structures.

38 minutes ago, Nino123 said:

but webber's skull is lorewise. I guess he came from this island (maybe a Maxwell experience).

Other ones came with a portal.

Webber was fooled into entering the world by Maxwell, just as the other characters were. No reason not to use the skulls that already exist, and work good as a game mechanic. Obviously any characters being actually played would spawn from the Florid Postern. The skull thing would only govern which characters you yourself are given in the character select.

[Sinister_Fang]

43 minutes ago, Nino123 said:

but webber's skull is lorewise. I guess he came from this island (maybe a Maxwell experience).

Other ones came with a portal.

MAXWELL = "That jerk tricked us."

STATUEMAXWELL = "That's the guy who said he could help us."

Not to mention that he also has many, many quotes mentioning his life from before entering the Constant.

[Naveil]

I mean, I don’t really see a point to an unlock system in DST. It was fine in DS because of how dynamically scaled it was, for lack of a better term.

You start off as Wilson, and after a few days you get stung to death by bees or some other shenanigans.

Afterwards, you pick beautiful pre-nerf Willow, who’s abilities are suited towards a newer player: infinite light source, fire immunity, sanity regeneration, but don’t go insane or you’ll pay the price.

In DST, with everyone’s kits being so much more “gerneralised”, a point of an unlock system is kinda nullified. It also means that once you unlock a new character, any incentive to play older characters (such as Wilson) is slim to none.

Also, some of your tasks seem very specific. Who’s supposed to know that killing clockworks as a spider boy will unlock a robot as a playable character? Not to mention the fact that one in particular seems a bit counter productive. At the very least, we’d see some griefers that aren’t Willow, amirite 

[dread3ddie]

4 hours ago, kertinker said:

Wes's skull drops if you construct an altar surrounded in thulecite walls, from all the defeated boss sculptures in a certain pattern around the Stagehand, sacrificing Glommer there on the full moon with 0% sanity.

This should unlock Charlie as a playable character 

[KoreanWaffles]

c_give("wendyskull")
c_give("willowskull")
c_give("woodieskull")
c_give("waxwellskull")
c_give("wolfgangskull")
c_give("wigfridskull")
c_give("wickerbottomskull")
c_give("webberskull")
c_give("wx78skull")
c_give("wesskull")

[Sinister_Fang]

39 minutes ago, KoreanWaffles said:

c_give("wendyskull")
c_give("willowskull")
c_give("woodieskull")
c_give("waxwellskull")
c_give("wolfgangskull")
c_give("wigfridskull")
c_give("wickerbottomskull")
c_give("webberskull")
c_give("wx78skull")
c_give("wesskull")

I was thinking more along the lines of the unlock everything command from DS, but that works too.

[Starlogy]

1 hour ago, KoreanWaffles said:

c_give("wigfridskull")

um it would actually be wathgrithrskull, thank you very much

[kertinker]

3 hours ago, machete_kills said:

This should unlock Charlie as a playable character 

Charlie wishes she could be as OP as Wes.

2 hours ago, KoreanWaffles said:

c_give("wendyskull")
c_give("willowskull")
c_give("woodieskull")
c_give("waxwellskull")
c_give("wolfgangskull")
c_give("wigfridskull")
c_give("wickerbottomskull")
c_give("webberskull")
c_give("wx78skull")
c_give("wesskull")

Yes, someone who is not new to the game, who understands how it works can get around these restrictions. The point is to limit choices to acceptable values for new people, and to reward people who play the game instead of using the debug console, by letting them unlock the characters.

[kertinker]

6 hours ago, Naveil said:

You start off as Wilson, and after a few days you get stung to death by bees or some other shenanigans.

Afterwards, you pick beautiful pre-nerf Willow, who’s abilities are suited towards a newer player: infinite light source, fire immunity, sanity regeneration, but don’t go insane or you’ll pay the price.

Clearly she's a good second character in the singleplayer game. In multiplayer, I think Wendy or Webber might be good first characters to unlock. But this is achievement based, not tier based. Like if you're a player who doesn't like killing a lot of spiders, you probably don't want to play as Webber. But if you're good at killing tallbirds and pigmen for meat, you'd probably be good at playing Wigfrid.

Honestly Wilson is the best character for starting players. Yes he dies a lot, but playing him you need to learn to craft torches, avoid being set on fire, and regain sanity in ways that work for every character. Plus, and this is not my opinion at all but rather hard, scientific fact, but it's so much more fun to die as Wilson. Oh no, there he goes again. The poor guy!

6 hours ago, Naveil said:

some of your tasks seem very specific. Who’s supposed to know that killing clockworks as a spider boy will unlock a robot as a playable character? Not to mention the fact that one in particular seems a bit counter productive.

It's just based on the somewhat obscure theory that Webber's father is Wagstaff, who became an emotionless robot so he wouldn't have to care about what was lost in the fire that destroyed his factory, possibly because of crippling burns Anakin Skywalker style. I suppose Winona could be the one to unlock WX-78, since she actually worked at the factory, and that's actually not a crazy crack theory just as baseless as it is awesome.

Either way, the clues to finding out how to unlock a character that way would have to be in the lore somewhere. Once someone figured it out, then people could just check the wiki.

Not sure how killing clockworks is counter-productive. You certainly do not want to play as WX-78 if you can't kill clockworks.

[minespatch]

7 hours ago, KoreanWaffles said:

c_give("webberskull",40)

Time to unlock my fluffbutt brigade.

[Naveil]

4 hours ago, kertinker said:

Not sure how killing clockworks is counter-productive.

You clearly didn't read my next sentence, but if i have to spell it out for you:

13 hours ago, kertinker said:

Willow's skull drops after you've burned enough stuff,

 

[Nino123]

12 hours ago, Sinister_Fang said:

MAXWELL = "That jerk tricked us."

STATUEMAXWELL = "That's the guy who said he could help us."

Not to mention that he also has many, many quotes mentioning his life from before entering the Constant.

I mean, in DS (the solo game), every character come from portal but webber is the only one unlocked by skull (maybe an exception for Wes). I think he was here before DST. In DST, they all come from  florid postern, even webber. I think that when he has quote like " That's the guy who said he could help us " or " That jerk tricked us " he refers to DST.

Maybe i'm wrong but i belive that Wilson was alone on his island (like every characters, and that's DS timeline) and they gather, according to the lore in DST. So webber was on wilson's island in DS. That's why i think he beklong to this world. And that's just my opinion.

Unlocking characters with skulls is ok in DST. I don't think it fit with DS. I prefer unlocking by "quest" like for Woodleg or Wes, more lorewise.

Again, that's only my opinion...

[Sinister_Fang]

23 minutes ago, Nino123 said:

I mean, in DS (the solo game), every character come from portal but webber is the only one unlocked by skull (maybe an exception for Wes).

I don't see what you're getting at here. Just because he is unlocked as a playable character by using his skull doesn't mean that's how he arrived in the Constant. His skull had to come from somewhere. That, and he makes many references to his previous home and family. You have to remember that he wasn't always a spider. That didn't really happen until after he entered the Constant.

44 minutes ago, Nino123 said:

I think he was here before DST.

Excluding Winona, everyone was here before DST.

45 minutes ago, Nino123 said:

I think that when he has quote like " That's the guy who said he could help us " or " That jerk tricked us " he refers to DST.

Those were quotes from DS. Those have been there ever since Webber's introduction in RoG (although they have changed in DST). I find it extremely unlikely they planned DST that far ahead. Especially since they were against multiplayer at the time.

[fimmatek]

9 hours ago, kertinker said:

12 hours ago, KoreanWaffles said:

c_give("wendyskull")
c_give("willowskull")
c_give("woodieskull")
c_give("waxwellskull")
c_give("wolfgangskull")
c_give("wigfridskull")
c_give("wickerbottomskull")
c_give("webberskull")
c_give("wx78skull")
c_give("wesskull")

Yes, someone who is not new to the game, who understands how it works can get around these restrictions. The point is to limit choices to acceptable values for new people, and to reward people who play the game instead of using the debug console, by letting them unlock the characters.

The unlocking system would surely work for some new players, but as there are players who read guides to get all achievements, I'm sure there would be guides about this method and people would use it to try every character straight from the beginning. Not to mention that most likely there would be a mod for this as well.

[GuyNamedChris]

I doubt people would like seeing millions of clueless Wilsons and Winonas scouring the servers instead of beneficial characters. We know there would be more than a fair share of players who don't know what to do or would complain about the unlocking means. On top of that, with the unlocking means like no one would be playing Willow, Maxwell, Wolfgang, Wicker, WX, or Wes(Yes I know he's a joke shush). So really it's just better people have the characters they have now to synergize with each other rather than drown in a pile of beards and duct tape.

[Nino123]

3 hours ago, Sinister_Fang said:

I don't see what you're getting at here. Just because he is unlocked as a playable character by using his skull doesn't mean that's how he arrived in the Constant. His skull had to come from somewhere. That, and he makes many references to his previous home and family. You have to remember that he wasn't always a spider. That didn't really happen until after he entered the Constant.

Excluding Winona, everyone was here before DST.

Those were quotes from DS. Those have been there ever since Webber's introduction in RoG (although they have changed in DST). I find it extremely unlikely they planned DST that far ahead. Especially since they were against multiplayer at the time.

sorry, english is not my first language so it's quite difficult for mle to explain clearly my opinion.

For me (but i can be wrong), every character was on his own solo island (wilson in one, wolfgang in an other...) and they gathered in DST, on a same island. That's why i told that webber was the only one to be on the island before DST.

Anyway, i think if Klei imagined this way to unlock him, there is a lore reason... Like Wes, Wilbur or Woodleg. Well that's what i think , i don't want to bother  ...

[CaptainChaotica]

All I can say to this whole thing is...while I'm not sure about HOW, I have actually thought some form of unlocking characters for DST might not be such a bad idea.  It's occurred to me before that part of the "noob problem" just MIGHT have something to do with the fact that _all_ characters are available immediately for everybody...including players who aren't even comfortable with the controls yet.  HOW many kids have we seen that _immediately_ pick Webber because "COOL!" or WX because "COOL!"  Also brand-newbies picking Wes because they either didn't even read "has a hard time staying alive" or took it as a challenge to their badass gamerhood...

HowEVer...I don't know if a super-elaborate, sometimes hard to even figure out let alone actually _do_, unlocking system like the one in the original post is quite the answer.  Really this is just my original curmudgeonly "GET OFF MAH LAWN!" thing--say it with me now:  Everyone should play a little singleplayer first.  And I mean _singleplayer_, NOT DST played alone.  Because that version unlocks things in an order that has to do with the character's complexity to play (more or less) and you're forced to at least figure out how to _stand up_ in your roller skates BEFORE you run straight into the derby. 

I dunno about challenges and killing specific monsters...I just think people should have some clue of how to physically move around and the fact that night is dangerous, before they leap straight into the hardest/most potentially disruptive characters.

BUT it's a free-for-all multiplayer game, so...whaddya gonna do?  (shrugs)  Also that would cost more money, so...

...Notorious

[Darlaimerner]

You don't unlock Wes if you're a wuss. You unlock Wes if you've come from Russia and ****ed several ******s.

[kertinker]

On 3/20/2018 at 11:21 AM, Chris1488 said:

I doubt people would like seeing millions of clueless Wilsons and Winonas scouring the servers instead of beneficial characters.

None of the characters are beneficial in the wrong hands. Wolfgangs for instance will try to eat more food, not knowing how to deal with his hunger drain.

You do make a good argument that clueless players might be driven off by accidentally playing the wrong characters, so they wouldn't be "scouring" your servers, since they won't be playing at all. I just don't really like that idea, and would rather have to deal with a few more Wilsons than risk turning someone off to the game who might've become a decent player and a good friend. But it is true that making a game more "newbie" friendly increases the amount of newbs you have to deal with.

On 3/21/2018 at 2:26 PM, CaptainChaotica said:

I don't know if a super-elaborate, sometimes hard to even figure out let alone actually _do_, unlocking system like the one in the original post is quite the answer.

It doesn't have to be super-elaborate. I was just throwing out some possible ideas. It would be difficult to program a completely different scenario for every character's unlocking, so I just copied Webber's, with some variations. Because all you need is a little thing to keep total newbs from making mistakes they don't want to make.

I don't like the unlocking system in Single Player though. It always seemed kind of dumb to me to say "welp, you survived 32 days, so you deserve to play Wendy, but not Wickerbottom." (Single Player) Willow might be a good "starter" character, but the rest don't fit in a line from "least difficult" to "most difficult" to play, since their pros and cons are more complex. You end up with a bunch of people who are super good at dealing with Willow's limitations, who never figured out how to play Wickerbottom. Why bother, since you're so much more practiced with the others?

Single Player unlocking is pretty much an attention grabbing scheme, something to keep people hooked on the game, not some noble consideration for their naive inexperience. "What, you're bored with this game? WAIT COME BACK PLEASE HERE'S A NEW CHARACTER"

Okay, to be fair I like the unlocking of Maxwell, Wes and Webber in single player. The others, it's just kind of meh. High score != Canadian Lumberjack.

Quote

Everyone should play a little singleplayer first.  And I mean _singleplayer_, NOT DST played alone.  Because that version unlocks things in an order that has to do with the character's complexity to play (more or less) and you're forced to at least figure out how to _stand up_ in your roller skates BEFORE you run straight into the derby. 

The only thing Single Player unlocks, that Multiplayer doesn't, is the character selection screen. So you could get the same "stand up in your roller skates" experience, if you just play as Wilson in Multiplayer until you git gud. Actually that'd be way more challenging since DST is balanced towards a team of 3 or 4 (mobs have 2x HP etc).

Single player's great, if you wanna play by yourself, without worrying about servers or lag or whatever. Honestly I think multiplayer is superior in almost every way, though. But I'm biased... I like seeing people play together.

[CaptainChaotica]

Well, I meant...with the other characters available right at the get-go newbies will of course always pick them.  I don't BLAME them for that, but if you only_have_ Wilson to begin with then you're FORCED to learn how to "stand up in your roller skates" first.  (I have no idea why I picked that particular metaphor...but I did and I'm sticking with it.  : P)

Basically what I mean is some kind of enforced gating until you learn the basics, _in general_.  The singleplayer way--grinding for enough experience--is universal and accessible to all who have enough patience. But yeah, it's boring.  But...I dunno, just, it'd be nice if there was a way to keep people who don't even know how to work the controls away from the characters who have drawbacks where if you don't understand it you can die really, really fast, or start with things in their inventory that can kill their teammates. 

I saw a Let's Play recently where somebody picked Woodie who was new to Don't Starve in general and ohmygod, I have never SEEN anybody die so fast!  The insanity from changing, shadow monsters, starved from not eating wood...he had absolutely no idea and it killed him _so_ fast.  THAT'S someone who could've benefitted from a playthrough of being good ol' normal-diet Wilson for a while first.

But, like I said, there's no good way to enforce this and everyone is IMMEDIATELY gonna grab the robot because robot, so...

...Notorious

[kertinker]

1 hour ago, CaptainChaotica said:

I saw a Let's Play recently where somebody picked Woodie who was new to Don't Starve in general and ohmygod, I have never SEEN anybody die so fast!  The insanity from changing, shadow monsters, starved from not eating wood...he had absolutely no idea and it killed him _so_ fast.  THAT'S someone who could've benefitted from a playthrough of being good ol' normal-diet Wilson for a while first.

But, like I said, there's no good way to enforce this and everyone is IMMEDIATELY gonna grab the robot because robot, so...

To be fair, I grabbed the librarian, because librarian. But yeah, I agree with everything except "days survived" based unlocking.

Woodie's actually really easy to play, if you know his quirks, even boringly easy since all he does is chop trees. And eat a third of his product. Compare with Wendy, who is insidiously difficult, such that only after playing her for 26 days straight do you realize what a death trap she is. Or with Willow, who's so nerfed she puts out more fires than she starts.

If people insisted on only allowing Woodie to be unlocked after 80 days survived, that'd be better than inflicting him on people unawares, but I'd rather go one better, and make characters like Woodie unlockable in ways that players could tell newbies, who really want to play him. If not by chopping down a ton of trees, then I dunno... by... singing O Canada by the firepit?

[fimmatek]

2 hours ago, kertinker said:

Compare with Wendy, who is insidiously difficult, such that only after playing her for 26 days straight do you realize what a death trap she is.

Why is she difficult? A death trap? After playing her a lot I still don't see it why she would be more difficult; and most people agree that she's quite beginner-friendly. Even you said that:

On 19.3.2018 at 6:13 PM, kertinker said:

Wendy gets unlocked by finding her skull in a grave, so she's easy to unlock

On 20.3.2018 at 3:55 AM, kertinker said:

I think Wendy or Webber might be good first characters to unlock.