Your thoughts on new priority/job system?

[goboking]

5 hours ago, Mariilyn said:

In this particular case I would set up a equally high level of priority on both build and operate jobs on this particular dupe. She will do both build and operate jobs before everything else; you just need to set a higher urgency level on the the buildings that needs to be done immediately and a mid urgency level to the tune-ups. That way she will do them before the less urgent level 1 blue-prints.

 

5 hours ago, Mariilyn said:

Again, tidy doesn't need to be set to a higher or a lower priority than your dupes main job. If you set the tidy priority at an equal level of priority than your dupes main job, they will then follow the urgency order for every job assigned to this same level of priority, like before. If you want these task to be performed by everyone, then just let tidy have the same level of priority than their main job.

But then I'm back to a yes/no system.  If all priority settings are the same then I'm either giving a dupe permission to do something or I'm denying it.  If very high priority interferes with a dupe's ability to do high, standard, and low priority to the point where I'm better off just using very high and none as my only two settings then the system isn't benefiting me. 

This isn't true if the system is inverted, though.  In that system I'm able to exercise fine-tuned controls over everything in my colony without worrying about hard-coded priorities getting in the way.  The downside to such a system is...you know, I honestly can't think of any.  Are there drawbacks to errand urgency trumping job priority that I'm not seeing?

[tsuna87]

1 hour ago, goboking said:

But then I'm back to a yes/no system.  If all priority settings are the same then I'm either giving a dupe permission to do something or I'm denying it.  If very high priority interferes with a dupe's ability to do high, standard, and low priority to the point where I'm better off just using very high and none as my only two settings then the system isn't benefiting me.

If you set all the jobs with the same priority then yes, it is a yes/no system. But if you chose some of then to be higher than other for some dupes you can create teams with different task. For example, you can pick 3 dupes to have higher build and construct priority and disable this tasks for the other dupes. Now you can set a set of build+dig tasks that only this 3 dupes will make then first. You can even use the 9 levels of urgency to specify witch build+dig tasks to do first. When they finished them they will help the other dupes in their tasks.

1 hour ago, goboking said:

This isn't true if the system is inverted, though.  In that system I'm able to exercise fine-tuned controls over everything in my colony without worrying about hard-coded priorities getting in the way.  The downside to such a system is...you know, I honestly can't think of any.  Are there drawbacks to errand urgency trumping job priority that I'm not seeing?

With that system I am unable to have a dedicated team for building, for digging, etc, and when they finish their tasks to go help suppy+tidy until I give then new orders.

 

[goboking]

Just now, tsuna87 said:

With that system I am unable to have a dedicated team for building, for digging, etc, and when they finish their tasks to go help suppy+tidy until I give then new orders.

What would stop you from doing so?  If your building and digging tasks are set to a higher urgency than your storage compactors then your building/digging team would build and dig first and then start sweeping clutter to be stored.

[Saturnus]

Once I've trained dupes to the bare minimum of skill in most, if not all professions, then I leave them as unemployed which negates the job priority system completely so you have a regular priority system as you're used to.

So I'm with the unlisted option 7: Don't care as I'm not using it

[mr peeps]

I think the ideas there, but it needs a bit of refining. For instance, nobody will refill algae deoxidizers if algae is far away from the colony. Ive lost roughly 3 colonies to this issue.

[Mariilyn]

3 hours ago, goboking said:

But then I'm back to a yes/no system.  If all priority settings are the same then I'm either giving a dupe permission to do something or I'm denying it.  If very high priority interferes with a dupe's ability to do high, standard, and low priority to the point where I'm better off just using very high and none as my only two settings then the system isn't benefiting me. 

Not at all. If tidy and the main dupe's job are set to the highest level of priority (Very high), it just means that they will do all the errands related to these two jobs, using the urgency order (1 to 9), before the other jobs that have a lowest level of priority. You dont need to disable the other jobs completely.

For instance if you have an artist with art and tidy set at the Very High priority level, they will do all the art and tidy errands in urgency order from 9 to 1. If there is no tidy or art jobs to do, they will then do all the other jobs set at High priority level (urgency 9 to 1). Then the jobs set at Standard (urgency 9 to 1) and finally Low (urgency 9 to 1).

Early game when there is not enough dupes to cover all jobs, the remaining job priorities can be distributed between the starting dupes. You have to make sure that at least one of your dupe has Tidy at Very High in order for these errands to get done fast.

In other words its like the occupational preview system of job priorization, but with the ability to completely customize the list of preferred tasks, using the priority tab. Its what I wanted personally and I think it is the best iteration of the job priorization system so far.

The only thing that is missing really is an emergency button. Like a simple * urgency button beside the urgency level 9 that would have precedence over everything. Or that while in Red Alert State, the duplicants ignore the priority levels completely and do the level 9 errands first.

 

58 minutes ago, goboking said:

What would stop you from doing so?  If your building and digging tasks are set to a higher urgency than your storage compactors then your building/digging team would build and dig first and then start sweeping clutter to be stored.

You have to make sure that no other task in the entire base is of higher urgency than building and digging or deactivate the job permissions for the other jobs completely or have to segregate your base in different zones. It is actually a lot more work.

[JeP2k3]

I was really confused by the new job/priority system at first, thought it was
just giving dupes some add weight on priorities (like a priority 5 job for anyone ould have become 
7 for dupes assigned to that kind of task for example), didn't understand the
behavior of my little guys and girls, and now that I know the deal,
it makes a lot of sense. 

I can finally predict which dupe will come to do what and where, the simplier
version we add before didn't give us that control, especially with
big and heavy running colonies, for each new building task, I had either
nobody coming because they all add better (and heavier prioritized) job
to do, or I would push the priority to like 8 or 9 and have almost 
everyone come.

Now, with this new system, I think we're almost there but not quite.
Since the priority numbers apply to only equal task for each dupe,
that means that they mostly apply in there particular field,
a level 9 digging task will have nothing on a level 1 exploitation
job for a dupe that has more urgency on exploitation. Its easy, I
just want to clarify for what I'm thinking should or might coming next.

Since each job is pretty separate from the others, I think once again,
having 9 levels of priority don't make sense. And for those cases where 
you have a dupe to save, or for that impending clogged toilet that
will cause the ruin of your colony... you should have priorities
that will apply to dupes whatever they think they should be doing
right now. I wouldn't go 5/5 this time, more like 6/3, those
3 being only "red alert" kind of priorities, only for dupes that
have the corresponding task available.
Becasue really... having 9 priorities now seems only useful when I want 
to build a 9 layers wall and be sure my builders don't get stuck. 

On another note, since priorities almost only matter in their particular
job assignation now... I think we should have a way to filter the 
"priority layer" and at will hide or show priorities corresponding
to each job definition... perhaps even hide or show priorities
for a given dupe would help understand what will be done first.
 

[Tobruk]

Your post @JeP2k3 looks like a poem

[Cheet4h]

On 11.3.2018 at 10:41 PM, goboking said:

What would stop you from doing so?  If your building and digging tasks are set to a higher urgency than your storage compactors then your building/digging team would build and dig first and then start sweeping clutter to be stored.

Let's assume you have a few supply tasks in your base: 

Supplying algae to a few odd oxygen producers at priority 7

Moving raw metal to a centralized storage at priority 6

Your kitchen and the food stores with priority 7 

Your supply dupes have build and dig deactivated and your builders have supply activated, because they're supposed to do something even if they aren't building anything. Now you want to build a few new areas, so you plan your build and dig tasks and set it to priority 8, to make sure your builders go building and not supplying. 

Watch as all of your dupes rush to carry materials to the build areas, since delivering materials to a construction is a supply task **and** a build task . While they do this, they don't supply your kitchen with materials, so your cook is doing that himself, wasting time that could have been spent cooking. 

Then you notice that one of your builders is still in the base, because he didn't get any of the supply tasks. So as your supply dupes deliver the items, the builder starts moving to the construction area, blocking that construction task the whole time.

As your miners uncover new tiles which need to be built, for every tile a supply dupe starts delivering the 200 raw mineral to the tile, meanwhile still neglecting the work needed to be done in the base, unless you set it to a higher priority. But then your builders will do that too ...

 

As with the system in the preview right now, I can just set up a few priority 5 build orders which my builders will instantly deliver and build to, while my supply dupes will keep working in the main base and help supply the construction site if they don't have any work with a higher priority. As a bonus, I can keep building and digging activated and they will help out there as long as they're done with their more important work. Make sure to have one dupe with a high tidy priority and you're all set there, too.

[chemie]

So if bubbles is set to three up bars on dig and everything else is default.

You queue a "5" dig and a "6" build

Does she do the build or dig first?

[Cheet4h]

1 minute ago, chemie said:

So if bubbles is set to three up bars on dig and everything else is default.

You queue a "5" dig and a "6" build

Does she do the build or dig first?

She'll go dig first

A probable exception to this: If the build task is a tile on raw material (e.g. sandstone), has been delivered with building material and is therefore at the dig stage, she may go dig that tile out, then return to the urgency 5 dig tasks.

[JeP2k3]

10 hours ago, Tobruk said:

Your post @JeP2k3 looks like a poem

Yeah, for whatever reason I'm used to manually insert line breaks... And here it looks particularly weird. 

 

Tldr (from my poem) : 

- 9 priorities are too much now

- priorities 7, 8 and 9 could be used as overrides regardless of dupes settings (as long as they have the task activated) 

- priority tool could use a task category filter 

 

[Kasuha]

I only got to about cycle 50 in my new playthrough and I can't say I have all of the new system figured out. So far it seems that duplicants give clear preference to their job tasks which in my opinion is in general worse than how the stable release behaves. I had to get a farmer or my dupes would be willing to starve to death with tons of mealwood ready for harvest in their planters. Sweeping too seems to be a problem every so often. But apart of that, things are reasonably smooth and definitely playable.

My approach is the same as ever - give all orders priority 5, set up compactors to priority 4 and important things like washbasins or outhouses to 7. Single dedicated dupe for research (he's a Tenured Scientist already), the rest are left to do whatever they please. Except research, of course.

I'll see how it goes on, unfortunately not much time to play on my side.

[Stoof]

Turning off automatically assigning priorities with jobs seems to make this a lot more manageable. Assigning one dupe to max priority tidy and supply and another to have at least some priority to operate. Bit of micro management required until you have more dupes. I understand the benefits to the new system, I like having my main digger do most of the digging for example, but believe the system in its current form is unintuitive.

[chemie]

13 hours ago, Cheet4h said:

She'll go dig first

A probable exception to this: If the build task is a tile on raw material (e.g. sandstone), has been delivered with building material and is therefore at the dig stage, she may go dig that tile out, then return to the urgency 5 dig tasks.

So I will never use the task priority system then.  When I set something higher overall priority, it means I need it done.

3 hours ago, Kasuha said:

I only got to about cycle 50 in my new playthrough and I can't say I have all of the new system figured out. So far it seems that duplicants give clear preference to their job tasks which in my opinion is in general worse than how the stable release behaves. I had to get a farmer or my dupes would be willing to starve to death with tons of mealwood ready for harvest in their planters. Sweeping too seems to be a problem every so often. But apart of that, things are reasonably smooth and definitely playable.

My approach is the same as ever - give all orders priority 5, set up compactors to priority 4 and important things like washbasins or outhouses to 7. Single dedicated dupe for research (he's a Tenured Scientist already), the rest are left to do whatever they please. Except research, of course.

I'll see how it goes on, unfortunately not much time to play on my side.

This is how I played before.  Default "5", things like harvest "6", outhouse and other must do things "7", and "8" for medical tables.  "9" for emergency.  Set artist and research to be the only ones to do that, and leave the rest alone.  Sounds like the three up arrows and 3 down arrows just breaks things.

[Cheet4h]

1 minute ago, chemie said:

So I will never use the task priority system then.  When I set something higher overall priority, it means I need it done.

You can do that. Just turn off automatic priority adjustment in the jobs screen and make sure all tasks are at the same priority.

Just notice, that it'll make some things more tedious, like allowing your architects and miners to do supply errands while there are no building or digging tasks to be done. To do that, you'd either have to set all of your construction tasks to a high priority, which would mean that all of your suppliers are now going to deliver materials to that construction site instead of supplying the kitchen, the farms etc., or you'd have to manually turn supply and tidy on and off for architects, while there is work to be done.

With the system like it is in the preview, I can just apply some priorities at the start of the base and seldom touch them again:

My architect will primarily build, then research, then supply while no building tasks are set.

My miner will primarily dig, then build, then cook, then supply.

My gofer will primarily supply, then dig and build.

My researcher will primarily research, then tidy, then supply.

 

All usually have dig and build at low priorities. In the end this means that there's seldom an idle dupe in my colony and I have no need to fiddle with the priorities every time I set new build or dig orders.

If I have an urgent, dupe threatening situation, I can still adjust priorities accordingly.

[TehPlayer14]

I love it personally finally we have another layer with control over dupes before that in occupational update I had to have dedicated farmer to have limited jobs because I wanted him to focus on harvesting plants so going from one farm to another because otherwise the dupe would instead do other stuff because farms are on low priority (Because I had automation in place to deliver fertilizer to them via sweeper)

[JeP2k3]

Still... some tasks confuses me.

Like... why are bringing water and fertilizer to plant a supply task and not a farm one. It makes it impossible to choose which dupes will only take care of plants, and that takes a lot of time.

What about relaxing or going to a medical bed. I remember before, I had to change the priority of a relax table or a medical bed to 7 or 8 for a dupe to consider to rest... but now I don't know where their priorities would be. 

[Cheet4h]

1 hour ago, JeP2k3 said:

Like... why are bringing water and fertilizer to plant a supply task and not a farm one

From my observations, the "deliver water" and "deliver fertilizer" errands to plants are both supply and farm tasks.

 

1 hour ago, JeP2k3 said:

What about relaxing or going to a medical bed. I remember before, I had to change the priority of a relax table or a medical bed to 7 or 8 for a dupe to consider to rest... but now I don't know where their priorities would be. 

If a dupe is more stressed than the threshold set on the massage table, they'll go to it. No priorities involved, much like showering.

In the same vein, sick dupes will rest in a medical bed. Treating dupes is a care (or kindness?) task though, so be sure to set the priority for the care-task high on a few dupes.

[chemie]

4 hours ago, Cheet4h said:

You can do that. Just turn off automatic priority adjustment in the jobs screen and make sure all tasks are at the same priority.

Just notice, that it'll make some things more tedious, like allowing your architects and miners to do supply errands while there are no building or digging tasks to be done. To do that, you'd either have to set all of your construction tasks to a high priority, which would mean that all of your suppliers are now going to deliver materials to that construction site instead of supplying the kitchen, the farms etc., or you'd have to manually turn supply and tidy on and off for architects, while there is work to be done.

With the system like it is in the preview, I can just apply some priorities at the start of the base and seldom touch them again:

My architect will primarily build, then research, then supply while no building tasks are set.

My miner will primarily dig, then build, then cook, then supply.

My gofer will primarily supply, then dig and build.

My researcher will primarily research, then tidy, then supply.

 

All usually have dig and build at low priorities. In the end this means that there's seldom an idle dupe in my colony and I have no need to fiddle with the priorities every time I set new build or dig orders.

If I have an urgent, dupe threatening situation, I can still adjust priorities accordingly.

I do not have a dedicated "digger".  I have a dup who gets through the dig tree, and keeps that skill as he goes through the build tree and then exosuits tree.  He is never a digger.  I do not want to deal with having to swap things around or having idle dups due to job mix changing.  I hate micro and would rather run a few extra dups than worry about how many diggers I need and if Klei has proper logic so when I need to build a ladder to save a dumb dup, he does not refuse because he can only dig.

[LegendarySJ]

I like the new system very much, but it takes some getting used to. I've found it helpful to leave a Dupe or 2 without a Job that I can rely on to do general tasks around the base while my specialists focus on their specialties. I like to keep it that way until I get at least 10 or so Dupes that can cover all the Jobs. That way you have less of a chance of giving an Urgency 9 order that your Dupes ignore because they have a different priority. It might help if they add something like a "Priority 10" that is absolute urgency no matter what Dupe priority is that gets handled by the closest Dupe that is able to perform it, but until then I think having a Jobless Dupe or 2 is the way to go

[Mariilyn]

1 hour ago, chemie said:

I do not have a dedicated "digger".  I have a dup who gets through the dig tree, and keeps that skill as he goes through the build tree and then exosuits tree.  He is never a digger.  I do not want to deal with having to swap things around or having idle dups due to job mix changing. 

You can disable the auto-prioritization of job related errands by toggling the button located in the upper right corner of the job tab.

1 hour ago, chemie said:

I hate micro and would rather run a few extra dups than worry about how many diggers I need and if Klei has proper logic so when I need to build a ladder to save a dumb dup, he does not refuse because he can only dig.

It is difficult to run extra dupes when ressources are scarce though. Organisation of dupe labor is kinda part of the game. It just takes a while to get used to the new system.

[JeP2k3]

1 hour ago, Cheet4h said:

From my observations, the "deliver water" and "deliver fertilizer" errands to plants are both supply and farm tasks.

 

If a dupe is more stressed than the threshold set on the massage table, they'll go to it. No priorities involved, much like showering.

In the same vein, sick dupes will rest in a medical bed. Treating dupes is a care (or kindness?) task though, so be sure to set the priority for the care-task high on a few dupes.

Oh ok... so in order to favoritize my farming dupe on "delivering water" and "delivering fertilizer", seems like I should give them a low urgency like 3 or 4, and have my farming dupe prioritize farming over everything else and it should work.

For the medical bed, it's just that, in a not so old build, I had a dupe carry a minor injury for hundreds of cycles before I saw that the medical bed had a priority too low for him to go recover... So, I'm wondering if those kind of "illness" that allow a dupe to still be of some use will still require a high priority medical bed... or if now they will go whatever the priority is as soon as they're even lightly injured.