Athletics most important stat for a dupe?

[NanoD]

Athletics for every one that not notice, determine the carry weight and speed now.

A dupe can carry 200 kg with 0 athletics every +1 gives 40 more kg in carry weight. But if you have -5 Athletics you can only carry 1kg. 

Atmosuit vill give you -6 in athletics. That is harsh debuff in this update. 

I have gone so far that my initiala dupes I wanted 5 or more in athletics and additional dupes I take I try to take will have high as possible athletics.

 

So am I the only one that thinks that athletics is the most important and only stat to care about now?

[Byste]

Honestly, yeah, you're exactly right. But I sincerely hope this gets changed before pushed to live. Athletics is just such an essential stat to every dupe's job unless they're so specialized that they never have to move. Digging a bit faster is still slower overall if they have to crawl between jobs.

[ColBBQ]

The game was too easy with dozens of dupes at level 50 athletics and zipping around like student drinking redbull and late for class.

[The Plum Gate]

It was never really that clear what or how exactly dupes gained experience, now it's a bit more clear on some things. TInkering for example...

Previously I would see my dupes level up the strangest skill just walking from place to place. Now they level up, and do it in that job. Not that this is any help to the base stats, but hopefully they change it to a system that adds a fixed portion to their stats per level while granting them experience in that job category. I would rather them have earned more reasonable stat buffs permanently upon completing that training.

I notice that the exosuit engineer suffers no movement penalty in an exosuit. The job negates it by adding 6 to athletics.

[RonEmpire]

seems like  strength got merged into  athletics.   making it the most important stat.

[Coolthulhu]

Athletics was always the most important stat, it's just that earlier everyone without twinkletoes or anemic eventually got the same athletics.

1 hour ago, The Plum Gate said:

I would rather them have earned more reasonable stat buffs permanently upon completing that training.

The system is tedious enough as it is by forcing manual changes whenever dupes "level up". Having to get everyone through courier training would be a major pain.

What we need is just a flat buff to base athletics. Or even better: making athletics the same for all dupes who aren't couriers/gofers and don't have twinkletoes (anemic should just go away, it's just too bad), but making as good as ~3 athletics now.

[Hechicera]

I can see where the Delivery job gets a job bonus to Athletics, but why not Groundskeeper?

Groundskeeper - prioritizes: Mop, Repair, Disinfect, Clean, Toggle, Sweep, Flip

I can see pushing some to automation (Sweep - conveyors, Toggle - automation), but rest I use a lot building up before that, or even after and the locations can be anywhere as the base gets bigger. Sweep is often who cleans up after diggers on early/mid building, not delivery. I don't understand why they get no Athletics boost.

I can see not folding in with Delivery. It is annoying when no one was delivering to a refinery/cook station because every dang dupe decided those 5 spots all the way across the map needed disinfecting right now!

But that still goes to show that I think groundskeeper needs Athletics maybe even more than delivery, esp. early/mid base.

[Yannick Vachon]

The main problem here is that once the duplicant reach 100%, if he change branch, he lose the bonus he learn here. For example, you have a Courrier who have +6 Athletics. wait for him to reach 100% and then switch it to Farmer and he will lose the +6 Athletics. This means that the "hat" give the bonus and when you are done, you lose it or they must stay forever in that job.

That is a problem.

If I play a 300-500 cycle game, I should have time to rotate my people so they can be good at a few things. Of course, the hob give tasks priorites and it is fine but I think that some of the bonuses should stay when you reach 100%. Maybe not everything but some of it as a reward to upgrading up to the maximum possible.

[BT_20]

19 hours ago, Yannick Vachon said:

The main problem here is that once the duplicant reach 100%, if he change branch, he lose the bonus he learn here. For example, you have a Courrier who have +6 Athletics. wait for him to reach 100% and then switch it to Farmer and he will lose the +6 Athletics. This means that the "hat" give the bonus and when you are done, you lose it or they must stay forever in that job.

That is a problem.

If I play a 300-500 cycle game, I should have time to rotate my people so they can be good at a few things. Of course, the hob give tasks priorites and it is fine but I think that some of the bonuses should stay when you reach 100%. Maybe not everything but some of it as a reward to upgrading up to the maximum possible.

I think the system should be more like leveling up in a sense where the dupe keeps the bonus for each job tier they complete.

[Ichikai]

39 minutes ago, BT_20 said:

I think the system should be more like leveling up in a sense where the dupe keeps the bonus for each job tier they complete.

This would essentially be the same as the old system, just with more micromanage. 

 

23 hours ago, The Plum Gate said:

It was never really that clear what or how exactly dupes gained experience, now it's a bit more clear on some things. TInkering for example...

It was fairly clear.
Athletics -> Move around.
Construction ->(De)Construct stuff
Digging -> Dig/Mop
Learning -> Research
Creativity -> Art
Medicine -> Treat other dupes, Make medicine (though Aid did not restrict people from using the building)
Tinkering -> Hydrofan, Hamster Wheel (weird, i know), and anything else that required duplicant operation

Now, you put on your cooking hat and everything gives you cooking mastery; digging, constructing, running on hamster wheel, sleeping...
All teaches you to cook better, very clear.

[Zarquan]

2 hours ago, Ichikai said:

Now, you put on your cooking hat and everything gives you cooking mastery; digging, constructing, running on hamster wheel, sleeping...
All teaches you to cook better, very clear.

Of course they all increase cooking mastery.  You spend some time in a low oxygen mine or running on a wheel endlessly and I bet you will quickly learn how to make amazing food to avoid ever going back to those jobs.

[voyager156]

On 28.01.2018 at 1:22 AM, NanoD said:

I have gone so far that my initiala dupes I wanted 5 or more in athletics and additional dupes I take I try to take will have high as possible athletics.

Me 2. My starting dupes all have to have athletics minimum 5 (in the preview ofc). Today I wanted to start a new game. So I'm sitting & clicking, trying to get some decent stats - but this goes on and on...I'm cursing and clicking... I just can't take this anymore. I quit the game... at least for now.

[chemie]

On 1/27/2018 at 7:22 PM, NanoD said:

Athletics for every one that not notice, determine the carry weight and speed now.

A dupe can carry 200 kg with 0 athletics every +1 gives 40 more kg in carry weight. But if you have -5 Athletics you can only carry 1kg. 

Atmosuit vill give you -6 in athletics. That is harsh debuff in this update. 

I have gone so far that my initiala dupes I wanted 5 or more in athletics and additional dupes I take I try to take will have high as possible athletics.

 

So am I the only one that thinks that athletics is the most important and only stat to care about now?

I guess they decided that anyone in an exosuit should never carry anything.  Even your gofer will carry way less than before.  Not sure how they think you will build stuff so the result is you never can use exosuits for diggers or gofers and at that point, no point in using them at all.

[Saturnus]

9 minutes ago, chemie said:

I guess they decided that anyone in an exosuit should never carry anything.  Even your gofer will carry way kess than before.  Not sure how they think you will build stuff so the result is you never can use exosuits for diggers or gofers and at that point, no point in using them at all.

Except for very localized digs. Like strip mining a slime biome close to base or a way-station. Then exosuits have a use. But I feel Klei isn't really playing the game as most us are, and certainly not for any amount of cycles that matters, if they couldn't foresee this problem with the system.

[Cpt. KatKit]

I think a lot of numbers are still balanced around the old system, hope they fix them. At the moment anything that needs a lot of setup will take ages to complete, Anemic is a death sentence and needs a serious nerf.

[ScottFree]

Athletics is a force multiplier. The faster dupes are, the more they can do. The jobs system tries to re-balance this by making dupes good enough at their job that their single task productivity is greater than their multi-tasking ability. The problem is that jobs spread out the workforce of a colony into small roles and those roles try to complete tasks for the whole colony. This doubly penalizes dupes with low run speed and makes the overall colony suffer once it covers the initial biome and beyond. This doesn't address the time wasting actions like bathroom breaks, eating, and searching for fresh air and how the loss of movement speed makes these activities take longer.

I use everything I can access, tile floors, fire polls, pneumatic/mechanized doors. It helps but the real pain is early game and the first 30-50 cycles feel harder than rest of the game.

[NanoD]

2 hours ago, Saturnus said:

Except for very localized digs. Like strip mining a slime biome close to base or a way-station. Then exosuits have a use. But I feel Klei isn't really playing the game as most us are, and certainly not for any amount of cycles that matters, if they couldn't foresee this problem with the system.

Yeah that what I felt to after this. I am like thinking. They should have a person that plays the game full time so they get a feel of the game. Some change they do, I am thinking are they even playing the game?

[Zarquan]

I felt exosuits were too powerful personally.  You could just spend all your time in exosuits and not care.  However, I don't think making the duplicants so slow that they can't get anywhere is the answer.  Even on localized digs with local quarters and food and latrines, I bet an exosuit specialist would strip mine a slime biome faster than an expert miner with 0 athletics if they were both wearing exosuits, as he is moving at 40% speed.

My thinking with exosuits is that they should have reduced the amount of oxygen in the suit and maybe made being in one give a little stress, as well as giving it a loner recharge time.  Basically you can't spend all day in a suit and recharging a suit should actually matter.

[chemie]

1 hour ago, Zarquan said:

I felt exosuits were too powerful personally.  You could just spend all your time in exosuits and not care.  However, I don't think making the duplicants so slow that they can't get anywhere is the answer.  Even on localized digs with local quarters and food and latrines, I bet an exosuit specialist would strip mine a slime biome faster than an expert miner with 0 athletics if they were both wearing exosuits, as he is moving at 40% speed.

My thinking with exosuits is that they should have reduced the amount of oxygen in the suit and maybe made being in one give a little stress, as well as giving it a loner recharge time.  Basically you can't spend all day in a suit and recharging a suit should actually matter.

I like the stress idea over the -6 athletics

[Zarquan]

38 minutes ago, chemie said:

I like the stress idea over the -6 athletics

I think a minus to athletics makes sense, but I also think -6 is a bit extreme, especially since athletics doesn't increase unless you go down the appropriate career track.

[The Plum Gate]

Looks like this last hotpatch set added +3 athletics to the groundskeeper. Just saying.

[Saturnus]

20 minutes ago, The Plum Gate said:

Looks like this last hotpatch set added +3 athletics to the groundskeeper. Just saying.

Good. That means he's finally better to have in the colony than some without a job at all.

[The Plum Gate]

3 hours ago, Saturnus said:

Good. That means he's finally better to have in the colony than some without a job at all.

I ended up turning one of my scientist into one, and my chief architect as well (buff). I'll change the architect back or gofer him when I need to remodel the base or promote an errand runner, he's just too slow to get anything done outside of the base. Maybe a tube network later on, or some serious pole work. Kind of mulling over the benefits... A lot of jobs give construction bonuses.

[Atlas888]

13 hours ago, Zarquan said:

I felt exosuits were too powerful personally.  You could just spend all your time in exosuits and not care.  However, I don't think making the duplicants so slow that they can't get anywhere is the answer.  Even on localized digs with local quarters and food and latrines, I bet an exosuit specialist would strip mine a slime biome faster than an expert miner with 0 athletics if they were both wearing exosuits, as he is moving at 40% speed.

My thinking with exosuits is that they should have reduced the amount of oxygen in the suit and maybe made being in one give a little stress, as well as giving it a loner recharge time.  Basically you can't spend all day in a suit and recharging a suit should actually matter.

Exosuits should have a *very* large energy requirement (battery packs that need to be recharged) and should ***increase*** Athletics by +2-3. Alternatively, put in Mechanized Exosuits for a Tier II suit that does this.

[The Plum Gate]

Atmo suits have the increased digging speed bonus, supposedly the trade off for athletics - but that's yesterdays balance. Now we have fast moving diggers that can't mine through abyssalite, granite, and so on. If the exosuit specialist job also gave the wearer the perks of the apprentice miner or miner, then that would be something.

Right now the courier requirement only makes sense as training which conditions the wearer for the inevitable hit in athletics. So the exosuit specialist's athletics bonus is made irrelevant or negated and and whatever skill level they had determines how fast they move in it - but we know this much - the problem is that we have to put our skilled miners in it and have them dig through the hard stuff - and they'll do it relatively quickly, but take for ever to get there.

Movement networks or runspeed increases on account of tile types might be just as important. It's taking me forever to reach the oil biome... just hitting cycle 100, and it looks like I'm another 50 away, at which point I'll be trying to figure out how to either cool the geyser water or melt the ice ( or both ).