steam turbine Occupational Upgrade Steam Turbine

[pacumos]

Today they posted what I consider the best version of the Steam Turbine.

It introduces a new feature that is the temperature needed being 256 ºC, at first I was a little shocked how they, after all those weeks, just got back to the first attempt of implementation that is too god damn high temperature; was all that discussion on the forums for nothing? Well, I don't think so, and let me explain.

The new temperature mechanic don't just work like an impasse, It, and I say with a capital 'I', works like a way of thinking to that particular subject; the Steam Turbine now works with that mechanic in mind, now you just don't need to make steam or get high temperature steam, you need to manage the temperature, the machine, now, cools the steam passing thru, and I don't know the exact mechanics, but sometimes it can condense in certain forms that transforms around 16% of steam into pure energy (I think duplicants have science expertise far more advanced than we're able to comprehend; I don't know the math behind this, but it happens when the steam passing thru gets too cold by the steam turbine temperature, I didn't analyze that much), the power output don't increase tho.

Basically now you're fighting against the mechanics of having that much of a temperature and steam at large amounts. It's not impossible, what enlightened me was that temperature thingy, that, again, blew me away for what they really want to do with this game; and I think we should expect a lot of thermal things to mess with in the future.

[FIXBUGFIXBUGFIX]

Some information

input > 525 Kelvin

output = 450 Kelvin

rate 10kg/s

pressure difference>3kg

[Vectrobe]

are the overheat temps for all machines supposed to be so high tho...?

[clickrush]

Just now, Paul17041993 said:

are the overheat temps for all machines supposed to be so high tho...?

There is currently a bug that will increase the overheat temperature of machines when saving and reloading by hundreds of K. But turbine has a higher overheat temperature I think.

[Maciej75]

4 hours ago, R9MX4 said:

pressure difference>3kg

kg is unit of mass, there is no pressure in ONI, lack of any thermodynamics is one of basic "bended physics" rules here.
As there is no pressure, there are no any thermodynamic processes - you can not raise pressure by heating (mass obviously does not raise, while heating).
So you cannot receive energy (electricity) by decompressing steam in turbine, because there does not exist any pressure to be lowered.

So it is funny to see all those attempts to make steam turbine . I am not using preview, but I can see how interesting life you all have there.

In "bended physic" reality of ONI only logic solution can be to "delete" steam in turbine as distant equivalent of decompression. 
Any fall of temperature of byproducts, without accompanying fall of pressure, makes turbine anti-entropy device. Such things exists in this game, but I do not think turbine should be one of it. So developers have to delete some steam if cooling rest, as an excuse to entropy.

But this is all so strange... in typical real life steam engine, the steam (water) is cooler, that raises in temperature (enters as water, leaves as steam). Hot air from fireplace is heater, that cools down while giving energy to water. Energy comes from heating steam and cooling air.
Pressurized steam is only carrier of energy from true engine - a boiler, to mechanical energy to electrical energy. At the end, we have steam, that is useless waste. Pressure was a value, steam itself valueless.

Klei tries to make a generator, that steam is valuable source of energy and is a heater, that cools down! And maybe have some other cooler that heats up.

I am really shocked. It contradicts my life experience so much

[Oozinator]

29 minutes ago, Maciej75 said:

I am really shocked. It contradicts my life experience so much

[Maciej75]

Thanks, this helped me a much.

[trukogre]

1 hour ago, Maciej75 said:

kg is unit of mass, there is no pressure in ONI, lack of any thermodynamics is one of basic "bended physics" rules here.

gaseous mass functioning analogously to pressure, and thus being referred to in a somewhat metaphoric way as pressure, is another of the basic 'bended physics' rules here.  If you don't like it, there's the door.  There are kittens on the other side.

[NanoD]

5 hours ago, R9MX4 said:

Some information

input > 525 Kelvin

output = 450 Kelvin

rate 10kg/s

Holy.... That's lots of energy. Steam generator the most efficient cooler in the game?... To bad it is on a so high temp

[trukogre]

3 minutes ago, NanoD said:

Holy.... That's lots of energy. Steam generator the most efficient cooler in the game?... To bad it is on a so high temp

Next update brings the Magma Geyser, also referred to as the Krakatoa.  Left unchecked, it will turn your entire base into a boiling, sulfourous hell.  Or, it can power a Steam Generator with almost 30% uptime.  I have a plan to end global warming by hooking up a network of literally dozens of Steam Generators to Yellowstone's supervolcanic magma reservoir, this will tragically freeze the core of the planet resulting in the fantastically unlikely events in the movie of the same name finally coming to pass, including Hilary Swank landing a shuttle in the LA river.

[Oozinator]

Just now, trukogre said:

 Or, it can power a Steam Generator with almost 30% uptime.

That's enough. When you don't play with tepe/aquatuner, you don't need much energy..
Another thing. I built that thing(pic) without debugmode (first), waited 250 cycles to get it done(incl. job lvl).
Let's say, player needs around 150 cycles, to build such a thing, with full dupe workload. When magma is cooled down, or something is placed wrong, redoing would be pain, or not?
Building tubes, cooling location down (plastic), using exos, building SG. I don't want to focus on that stuff so much..

[NanoD]

Yepp

About 5000 kj / s or 5000 kW in cooling power.

Compare that to 

anti-entropy devices 80 kW.

Now we are talking about a inefficient machine. You put in 5000 kW of energy and get 2kW of power out hehe.

[Oozinator]

I was hoping, that the SG accepts other gasses, but it needs steam..
There is a problem, to raise steam to such a high temperature.
That thing is "eating" magma, really lol.
Cooling down so much, player will have to relocate it soon, when they don't add magma piping/pumps..

[Maciej75]

54 minutes ago, trukogre said:

gaseous mass functioning analogously to pressure, 

And analogy is... where? Does this mass grows when gas is heated?

[trukogre]

10 minutes ago, Maciej75 said:

And analogy is... where? Does this mass grows when gas is heated?

The analogy is that it:

1. raises when compressed

2. makes liquids behave differently depending on the 'pressure'

3. Powers turbines/generators

4. functions to push oxygen across the lung membranes into the dupes bloodstream

5. causes eardrums to pop when too high

6. is literally referred to as pressure by the ingame descriptions themselves!?!?!  e.g. plants require '150g-10000g air pressure to grow' for sleet wheat IIRC

7.  Just to make sure you got this, the game literally calls it air pressure repeatedly.

8. I'm not sure if you've heard, but the in game descriptions use the actual term pressure to refer to gaseous mass per tile.

9.  So that means the analogy is in the game files themselves.

p.s.  No, the mass doesn't grow when heated.

pps.  But it's still called pressure in the game.

10.  In the game files, it's called pressure.

[Oozinator]

Ok it works, but when i see, how quick temperature of magma drops per tile (around 1°/sec/slowest speed), i am really wondering, why i should build it, when they do not force me, to do it.. Same like tubes, i don't need them, with their melting temperature, they are not really "good" everywhere. The petroleum gen is same thing, not worth the workload (if you ask me). I only need plastic for some pumps/traps/beds now and to pump crude oil out of the slickster CO° zone. When they nerf now other gens, to make those attractive, it's a "nono" for me.
Edit: Another real problem i see is: When players build this over dazillion of cycles, without debugmode and they made a small mistake and have to reenter that zone, it could get so frustrating. That's not hard gamemode, only frustrating..
A bursting pipe is enough, to mess it up, or a wrong placed tile could be, or ground not clear (no sweep)..
With the tepedizer/aquatuner "fix", the option, to melt own stuff, is gone, some experimenting too..

[Saturnus]

Well, you're pretty much all doing it wrong with the new update in mind.

What you need to do now is to generate the steam at as high temperature you can safely make it, and then heat that steam the rest of way to the needed temperature with magma. Using the magma to directly boil water and heat up the steam is wasting a vast amount of thermal energy. 

[Oozinator]

2 minutes ago, Saturnus said:

Well, you're pretty much all doing it wrong with the new update in mind.

How do you heat the steam gen to 250°, that it runs permanent (edit) and how many water uses it?

[uraharakisuke]

I don't get why they added the steam gen at all in this update. You have no way to make steam at 250c (or handle it for that matter) without magma and dupes handpumping magma in bottles seems such a crude way of doing things. 

[Vectrobe]

3 hours ago, Maciej75 said:

kg is unit of mass, there is no pressure in ONI

Pressure is a result of mass and energy (ie heat), more mass and more energy results in higher pressure, more mass but less energy (ie cooled compression) gradually reduces pressure as the element changes state, depending of course on the particular properties of the element.

I think you're referring to velocity? that's something ONI lacks, and what causes gas to behave weird compared to IRL...

[Kabrute]

It could be argued that atomically both temperature and pressure share characteristics of velocity

[Maciej75]

10 minutes ago, Paul17041993 said:

I think you're referring to velocity?

Kinetic energy. As mases of particles differ, velocities differs, too.

Pressure is what make gases balanced if same number of particles in same volume. If ONI have pressure, then tile with 2kg of Hydrogen H2 would be in equilibrium with tile having 44kg of CO2.

But ONI do not have pressure. So tiles are in balance is when e.g. 10kg of H2 in one, and 10kg of CO2 in other. In real life pressure of H2 in such case would be so much grater then CO2, that H2 explode.

 

[FIXBUGFIXBUGFIX]

1 hour ago, Oozinator said:

Cooling down so much

No matter how hot the input gas is, the temperature of output is always 450K (176.9C).

Magma can heat steam to far hotter than the requirement of temperature, which means a great quantity heat is wasted.

[Kabrute]

Then I got nothing

[FIXBUGFIXBUGFIX]

1 minute ago, Kabrute said:

Quick q but is the base overheat of this building 175-177c?  Because that would account for the "sudden heat deletion", its their hard coded thermal gas to building response

buildingDef.OverheatTemperature = 1273.15f;

1000Celsius