So Woodie still sucks right?

[ShadowDuelist]

I think human woodie is a fair well rounded character. Its the beaver mode that needs a few changes. The sanity drain is punishment enough to have a few more gameplay options.

What i'd do is the following:

• Allow the beaver form to keep whatever last hat or helmet woodie was using when transformed, or let other players place a hat/helmet on you as they would with a pig or bunnyman. This wont make him a superb fighter, but it will certainly improve his survivability while having a helmet on. Also having a bee queen helmet would give the means (albeit hard) for experienced players to restore sanity in beaver mode. His damage should be the same meaning that it wont be made for fighting regardless. Also, Bush hat beaver for the lulz.
• Make the beaver form immune to freezing and 100% waterproof: it even makes sense for a beaver. Overheat will still affect him to avoid rendering woodie too strong.
• Remove the beaverness gain upon nibbling rocks and boulders: this makes no sense to me and its what prevents the beaver form from being a decent miner. Again, you're exchanging sanity for rocks.
• Decrease beaverness gain from chopping trees. Less beaverness from chopping means more trees chopped before you become woodie again. If you want to change back to woodie faster, just eat logs as usual.
• Allow the beaver form to heal 5 hp for each log or above wood material consumed (not grass, papyrus or twigs which are far more abundant). This is a small boost for survivability purposes, its also self limited, if you try to heal eating wood you'll go back to be woodie, who will not get this benefit from eating wood.
• Let beaver form and lucy deal bonus damage to treeguards. Make woodie a good treeguard slayer, at least.
• Remove the beaver ability to destroy player made structures other than walls or fences, to prevent griefing with the above mentioned changes.

This would make, at least for me, woodie a lot more fun to play with.

[King Rich 1357]

I played with Woody and wickerbottom and made it to day 72. We may have used some rollbacks but it was my first time playing as woody and we're still going. So if u use him (and rollbacks) the right way u might make it further than we did.

[Alarsin]

4 hours ago, FreyaMaluk said:

the tree production can be automated with the Reanimated Skeleton

What?

[FreyaMaluk]

9 minutes ago, King Rich 1357 said:

I played with Woody and wickerbottom and made it to day 72. We may have used some rollbacks but it was my first time playing as woody and we're still going. So if u use him (and rollbacks) the right way u might make it further than we did.

I think that the point of the discussion is that Woodie as a whole is not that much fun.. and he kinda sucks! It's obviously not impossible as a character... he is just boring and forces you to stay around base longer than other characters. 

4 minutes ago, Alarsin said:

What?

I meant that the log production is more effective with the Reanimated Skeletons... Do you know what I'm talking about?

[Mananu]

6 minutes ago, Alarsin said:

What?

Freya is talking about the Ancient Fuelweaver. You can use him at night to cut trees, but sadly there are short nights when Ancient Fuelweaver might not have enough efficiency.

[Alarsin]

Skeleton doesnt cut down trees, does it?

[Toros]

I understand why people would main woodie, and find him fun.  More than possibly any other character Woodie has tricks and optimizations that make him significantly better in the hands of someone who knows how to play him.

 

However, especially in a team context a well played woodie is objectively less effective as a resource gatherer and overall than maxwell is.

 

Max has faster gathering of a wider variety of resources.  He can also read wickerbottom's books, further increasing his usefulness to a group.

 

I would agree that the problem lies with how weak werebeaver form is and while I won't link it I made a woodie rebalance mod that makes werebeaver form a lot more competitive in a number of ways.

 

Also, for those who don't know base werebeaver gnaw is 4x as effective as an axe chop, 1/3 as effective as a pickaxe or shovel use, and 1/4 as effective as a hammer.  This means werebeaver is a terrible miner due to needing to hit 18 times and gaining 18 log meter from breaking one boulder.

[FreyaMaluk]

6 minutes ago, Mananu said:

Freya is talking about the Ancient Fuelweaver. You can use him at night to cut trees, but sadly there are short nights when Ancient Fuelweaver might not have enough efficiency.

you don't need him to walk long distances and even in Autumn you can use this farming method! The only thing you need is make it walk trough the tree farming plot. Doesn't take more that 3 times going through them and for that you have more that enough time even in the shortest nights in-game!

Besides, you are wrong, the Ancient Fuelweaver can be found only in the atrium, the others are called "reanimated skeletons"

[Alarsin]

what are you talking about? how do you farm wood with the skeleton?

[FreyaMaluk]

1 minute ago, Alarsin said:

Skeleton doesnt cut down trees, does it?

Dear @Alarsin... it makes no difference if you chop down the trees or if the Reanimated Skeleton stomp them... the result is the same... a bunch of logs!

[Alarsin]

no comments. I asked you how to use  the skeleton to farm logs, and you are telling me that there's no difference between the skeleton farm and the werebeaver farm.

[FreyaMaluk]

1 hour ago, Alarsin said:

no comments. I asked you how to use  the skeleton to farm logs, and you are telling me that there's no difference between the skeleton farm and the werebeaver farm.

ok... this is a bit of selfpromotion and my vid is in Spanish, but you will see here how this works

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhoTkv-fJ9w

 

[Mananu]

5 minutes ago, FreyaMaluk said:

Besides, you are wrong, the Ancient Fuelweaver can be found only in the atrium, the others are called "reanimated skeletons"

I've called him Ancient Fuelweaver just to make him understand from where comes the name ''Reanimated Skeletons''. And I don't think I am wrong, both names can work since you need to kill the boss in order to control that skeleton.

[FreyaMaluk]

15 minutes ago, Mananu said:

I've called him Ancient Fuelweaver just to make him understand from where comes the name ''Reanimated Skeletons''. And I don't think I am wrong, both names can work since you need to kill the boss in order to control that skeleton.

not true... you need to kill a Level 3 Shadow Piece in order to reanimate the Skeletons, including the Ancient Fuelweaver. The difference is that the later is the stronger and more conscious version of them all and the restoration of the caves, but you still need the same number of pieces and the shadow heart for alls skeleton to come to life!

[Mananu]

Just now, FreyaMaluk said:

not true... you need to kill a Level 3 Shadow Piece in order to reanimate the Skeletons, including the Ancient Fuelweaver. The difference is that the later is the stronger and more conscious version of them all and the restoration of the caves, but you still need the same number of pieces and the shadow heart for alls skeleton to come to life!

Ok ok Freya, you won. This conversation is getting nowhere plus it's not about the ''Reanimated Skeleton'', it's about Woodie.

[FreyaMaluk]

Just now, Mananu said:

Ok ok Freya, you won. This conversation is getting nowhere plus it's not about the ''Reanimated Skeleton'', it's about Woodie.

agreed  Sorry about that... Couldn't help it! 

[MondayNight]

7 hours ago, FreyaMaluk said:

..after a while the log production can be automated with the Reanimated Skeleton in a far more effective way.

What you propose there - using the Skeleton for 'chopping' trees via stomping (besides, Bearger is way more suited to said action if we're talking about efficiency, even more so as he comes to you, not vice versa) - would be something more of an endgame type action (a long series of significant feats - beginning with carrying the marble statues' heads, then fighting stage 1, 2 and 3 special shadow mini-bosses, spelunking for fossils and big tentacle, navigating Atrium level fully prepared for what lies ahead, and finally fighting and beating Ancient Fuelweaver - are needed to obtain the Shadow Thurible one uses to pseudo-tame future Reanimated Skeletons), and just for some really good/advanced players investing fair amount of hours into the game; not for RandomJoeNr.N+1 that most of times plays 'till autumn's end with default Wilson and dies-a-lot. These RandomJoes are the bulk of players' base, same ones that go werebeaver Woodie by day 2 (extra-bonus if it's day 1), dying via shadows or log-starvation. One should always have in mind the levels of this vast majority of players when analyzing facts and such, not a presumably less than 5% elites.

[HamBatter]

The beaver damage nerf seems like something that was done hastily so he isn't so battle-ready in PvP.

This could be fixed by applying a beaver PvP multiplier (e.g. 0.5x) on top of a base number like 59.5. Something similar can also can apply to damage reduction.

[Rellimarual]

30 minutes ago, xxVERSUSxy said:

What you propose there - using the Skeleton for 'chopping' trees via stomping (besides, Bearger is way more suited to said action if we're talking about efficiency, even more so as he comes to you

A caveat to this: While Bearger's ground slam is indeed great for chopping trees, his charge leaves no logs from the trees he knocks down, only stumps. 

[FreyaMaluk]

 

38 minutes ago, xxVERSUSxy said:

What you propose there - using the Skeleton for 'chopping' trees via stomping (besides, Bearger is way more suited to said action if we're talking about efficiency, even more so as he comes to you, not vice versa) - would be something more of an endgame type action (a long series of significant feats - beginning with carrying the marble statues' heads, then fighting stage 1, 2 and 3 special shadow mini-bosses, spelunking for fossils and big tentacle, navigating Atrium level fully prepared for what lies ahead, and finally fighting and beating Ancient Fuelweaver - are needed to obtain the Shadow Thurible one uses to pseudo-tame future Reanimated Skeletons), and just for some really good/advanced players investing fair amount of hours into the game; not for RandomJoeNr.N+1 that most of times plays 'till autumn's end with default Wilson and dies-a-lot. These RandomJoes are the bulk of players' base, same ones that go werebeaver Woodie by day 2 (extra-bonus if it's day 1), dying via shadows or log-starvation. One should always have in mind the levels of this vast majority of players when analyzing facts and such, not a presumably less than 5% elites.

ok... the point me bringing the Reanimated Skeleton to the picture was to prove that Woodie's ability for chopping trees doesn't make him exceptionally useful in the long run, cuz there are other ways to get logs. You can always use the Weather Pain, a bunch of Piggies or a bit of explosives and a flingo... there are several ways to get quickly a bunch of logs fairly quickly. Piggies are available right from the start so... yeap.... 

My real point here... ,and back to OP's discussion, is that Woodie's ability for fast chopping is not enough to consider him a nice character to play... IMO, he requires too much maintenance for little benefit overall and in his Beaver form... It's just not that fun compared to his homonym in DS. 

[MedicOrNot]

Another Woodie main here.

I can relate to some of the things posted in the main thread, and what some people have already said.

Woodie doesn't suck, and as others have said, requires a little more time to get use to. Sure people will stomp on him with his weak perks granted to him in DST (his beard giving him insulation, planting saplings grant +5 sanity) but he is still very useful. Granted some Maxwell could take over the role for Woodie, but nothing can outrun wearbeaver. So I'm going to list some of my thoughts on what Woodie should be granted.

 

• Grant him more armor against mobs, espically tree guards.

This only makes sense as, Woodie will most likely be facing other mobs if/when hes in wearbeaver. Granted if you have your friends nearby they can help you, but this isn't much of a chance. As again, he isn't really made for PvP so the stronger armor against mobs will really help him.

• Decrease sanity loss (or remove it) as well as beaverness drain during full moons.

We all know. Its -90 sanity/min being transformed and combined with the night and other sources, this is just dreadful. Yea you can plant cones like crazy to regain that sanity, but the question lies on do you carry them? Or do you not? Also the loss you suffer during full moons for beaverness is also slightly annoying. Yea its slow enough where you can prevent it but during longer nights during winter, this can just pose to be an annoyance rather then an issue. Granted, you know what you're doing.

• Scale the damage to be more effective on mobs, greater on tree guards

Back to this again. There still shouldn't be that crazy as heck beaver from DS, but at least something more manageable. I'm not implying making him so strong that hes back to where he was. But make it so he isn't a sitting Goose whenever hes in beaver. Sometimes forests are populated with spiders, yea? Or something of the kind that isn't too friendly to see our lumberjack (going off a night stance here). We could make him like his DS counterpart, but then everyone would want to stay in beaver. Where I'm trying to go is simply this: make it so players aren't left to literally die when in this form, and make it so he can be a hit/run type of character. Do some damage, restore the meter, and hightail it out of there. 

• Buff Lucy's damage to walking cane

Before anyone tells me this is an utterly bad idea, let me state this: There is the chance that a set piece will spawn with the cane. Yes I understand its still a rather low chance, but come on! Lucy does LESS damage then an item that'll last you forever practically, AND gives you a speed boost. It just DOESN'T make sense. This is up for debate, but it just irritates me. Figured I'd state this to get it off my chest.

This is really all I have to say, and most of it is open to debate with everyone else. Yea, some will agree and some will disagree and I'm open to that. Woodie is just a character you need to play for a bit to understand. Hes not like Wilson where you can just sit through winter, or like Wendy who has her sister, and loses less sanity from sources and deals less damage. Either that or I had finally played enough of Woodie to realize he is fun to play and does his job good. I just hope we get something from Klei.

also maxwell you better step aside you meme  

[CarlZalph]

1 hour ago, HamBatter said:

The beaver damage nerf seems like something that was done hastily so he isn't so battle-ready in PvP.

Then you have wathgrithr who starts with a spear and armour while having enhanced damage.

It would seem silly that this is the reason for nerfing the damage output.

[Sudura2017]

17 minutes ago, CarlZalph said:

Then you have wathgrithr who starts with a spear and armour while having enhanced damage.

It would seem silly that this is the reason for nerfing the damage output.

this all over.

Beaver nerfs were stupid, to be honest.

[FreyaMaluk]

17 minutes ago, Sudura2017 said:

this all over.

Beaver nerfs were stupid, to be honest.

exactly... these nerfs totally suck the fun out of the beaver form! And the silly excuse of the OP-ness of the DS beaver form makes no sense, because if that was the case then Wigfrid and Wolfgang shouldn't be allowed to be in the game in the first place!

[Alarsin]

FreyaMaluk, thanks for the demonstration.

From what I've seen, beaver is much faster at chopping trees that the skeleton. Significantly faster. Only Maxwell's shadows (2-4 of them) can replace him at cutting down trees. And, of course, bearger.