An appeal to noobs.

[verm1ll1on]

If you are new to the game and have absolutely no clue of how to play, I beg of you: either start with the single player version of the game or read about the damn game. You can find plenty of information and tutorials online, it's not even hard.

Why?

Firstly, the multiplayer version is a more difficult version of Don't Starve. If you have low to no experience in the game, do not try the hardest version of it.

But why is this a problem? Because you, my dear noob, is affecting everyone else's game experience. And no, experienced players are not there to teach you, they are there to play. It's not a problem at all to ask questions or ask for help with certain tasks you are unsure of, but when you don't even know how to acquire gold, maybe you shouldn't be playing the hardest version of the game.

 

When you die, and you die a LOT, other people are affected by it. When you're a ghost, everyone receives a sanity debuff. When you die and can't find a touch stone because you don't know what that is, other people have to waste time and health to revive you, so you can die 5 minutes later again.

 

And I'm not even exaggerating, this just happened. A server with 20 people and 5 or 6 people dying every 5 minutes. Resurrected multiple times just to die again. Usually by starvation, Darkness and low sanity. Asking all the ******* time "how to get my brain up" and everyone responding with multiple alternatives, such as flowers, green caps, cactus flesh and they just keep asking the same damn thing. And we can't even dream to kick those people with the current voting system

 

so I beg once more: learn at least the basics of the game before joining the multiplayer community, it will be better for you and everyone else.

Also, Klei, pls give old voting system back.

[applebottom]

Just wanna point out that not everyone has the singleplayer version of DS. (But they CAN host a game on their own which has the same effect of practicing alone.)

[verm1ll1on]

26 minutes ago, applebottom said:

Just wanna point out that not everyone has the singleplayer version of DS. (But they CAN host a game on their own which has the same effect of practicing alone.)

They can also join more casual servers. There are plenty of servers with "easy" configurations, such as longer Autumn,Endless mode, no Winter, more resources and food. In servers like that, they can easily survive, build and learn, while playing with other people and not being troublesome to anyone.

[Faintly Macabre]

A thought: this might be helped somewhat if a version of the XP system from single-player was introduced to DST and it was possible to set a minimum level requirement for a server. Ideally the XP gained would scale somehow, such that just surviving 15 days a game would take a long while to reach the higher levels; perhaps there's some sort of upwards curve in XP gained relative to the consecutive number of days survived in a given attempt, or maybe the harsher seasons give more XP per day survived.

Of course, that could prove problematic if the entire player base decides to set their servers' required levels to the maximum. Might have to figure out a way to combat that somehow.

[AnonymousKoala]

13 minutes ago, TheHalcyonOne said:

A thought: this might be helped somewhat if a version of the XP system from single-player was introduced to DST and it was possible to set a minimum level requirement for a server. Ideally the XP gained would scale somehow, such that just surviving 15 days a game would take a long while to reach the higher levels; perhaps there's some sort of upwards curve in XP gained relative to the consecutive number of days survived in a given attempt, or maybe the harsher seasons give more XP per day survived.

Of course, that could prove problematic if the entire player base decides to set their servers' required levels to the maximum. Might have to figure out a way to combat that somehow.

Susceptible to idling, and issues of new players who might actually end up well not being able to play, etc. but I actually like this idea. Could solve a lot of issues.

[RyanandLink]

sanity ez

[Lukmendes]

Well, in my case, I haven't played Don't Starve, and I'm not going to buy it, but I'm aware I'm not really good at the game, so I keep practicing in my own servers so I don't get much in the way when I play other servers.

[verm1ll1on]

51 minutes ago, Lukmendes said:

Well, in my case, I haven't played Don't Starve, and I'm not going to buy it, but I'm aware I'm not really good at the game, so I keep practicing in my own servers so I don't get much in the way when I play other servers.

You da real MVP.

 

3 hours ago, TheHalcyonOne said:

A thought: this might be helped somewhat if a version of the XP system from single-player was introduced to DST and it was possible to set a minimum level requirement for a server. Ideally the XP gained would scale somehow, such that just surviving 15 days a game would take a long while to reach the higher levels; perhaps there's some sort of upwards curve in XP gained relative to the consecutive number of days survived in a given attempt, or maybe the harsher seasons give more XP per day survived.

Of course, that could prove problematic if the entire player base decides to set their servers' required levels to the maximum. Might have to figure out a way to combat that somehow.

This. Or something like this. As Koala said, idling and console commands would ruin this.

Perhaps an obligatory console free tutorial? New players would HAVE to do that to get access to other people's server. Nothing too harsh, just the basics: how to make tools, what tools are used for, how and why you need to make fire/torches, how to make building stations, how to make basic recipes in the crock pot, how to improve your sanity and such.

[applebottom]

1 hour ago, verm1ll1on said:

This. Or something like this. As Koala said, idling and console commands would ruin this.

I also like Koala's idea. And I think players who know how to cheat and do console commands are probably familiar enough with the game to not be a burden to other players (unless they're trolling).

[Faintly Macabre]

6 hours ago, verm1ll1on said:

As Koala said, idling and console commands would ruin this.

I don't really think this is a realistic concern. Who would do that? What would they have to gain vs. just playing and learning the game? We're trying to deal with the uneducated, not the ****headed.

[verm1ll1on]

2 hours ago, TheHalcyonOne said:

I don't really think this is a realistic concern. Who would do that? What would they have to gain vs. just playing and learning the game? We're trying to deal with the uneducated, not the ****headed.

Why would people not learn the game before playing? Why would they keep going when everyone is telling them that their lack of knowledge is harming others and they should learn basic concepts first? Why would people waste time entering servers and grieffing? No one gains nothing from that, yet it happens.

 

Maybe just 2 out of 10 people will cheat the tutorial, but why give those 2 the option to cheat it when you can make all 10 go through it?

[Hezel]

You need to step down from your little pedestal.

[verm1ll1on]

34 minutes ago, Hezel said:

You need to step down from your little pedestal.

The hell are you even talking about?

[CarlZalph]

Part of the experience of the game is figuring things out.

What better way than to walk blindly with your friends?

 

Though the wandering new player who has no friends, now that is a sad sight to behold.

I feel that Klei should have a feature that lets new players match up with other new players in a sort of party system for those without friends.

[Serph]

"Learn the basics" where? DST doesn't teach you anything, you're supposed to learn by yourself. And some stuff is so abstract or unorthodox that nobody would learn by themselves. You can reach day 1000 and still have no idea that Shadow and Ice chester even existed. 

Nobody has any idea that they're "griefing" because they have no clue what to do. It's an online game, everyone comes to the logical conclusion of joining a random server to see what happens. If you wanna blame something then blame the game. 

[verm1ll1on]

57 minutes ago, Serph said:

"Learn the basics" where? DST doesn't teach you anything, you're supposed to learn by yourself. And some stuff is so abstract or unorthodox that nobody would learn by themselves. You can reach day 1000 and still have no idea that Shadow and Ice chester even existed. 

Nobody has any idea that they're "griefing" because they have no clue what to do. It's an online game, everyone comes to the logical conclusion of joining a random server to see what happens. If you wanna blame something then blame the game. 

A tutorial was suggested. You can learn through research. There's a whole wiki page dedicated to Don't Starve. Not to mention the various videos on Youtube. It's a cooperative game. If you can't cooperate because you don't know how to play, maybe you should research a little and try more casual servers or hosting your own.

You can survive 1000 days without chester, but not without knowing that when night comes, you need a fire because darkness kills; or other basic game knowledge. Lots of new comers die due darkness in early game. And they don't mind too much because, unlike the vanilla Don't Starve, dying doesn't mean much in DST.

You all act like I'm saying noobies shouldn't play. I'm not saying that. Noobies should learn and jumping in a difficult game with no knowledge whatsoever is not the most proper way to learn the basics of the game. They just roam with not a clue of what to do, die and cry for help, get help and die again.

I, for one, never jump into multiplayer in a game I don't know. I always try to at least know some basic **** so multiplayer can be fun, instead of me trying to figure out how to play something that's clearly above my capabilities.

I also blame Klei for selling DS and DST as different things. They should have the option to play the single player version without hosting their own servers or buying Don't Starve separately.

 

Also, I didn't say noobs grief. Was talking about griffers in general who do it just for the lol

[Faintly Macabre]

4 hours ago, verm1ll1on said:

Why would people not learn the game before playing? Why would they keep going when everyone is telling them that their lack of knowledge is harming others and they should learn basic concepts first? Why would people waste time entering servers and grieffing? No one gains nothing from that, yet it happens.

 

Maybe just 2 out of 10 people will cheat the tutorial, but why give those 2 the option to cheat it when you can make all 10 go through it?

Some people like to learn as they go? And I mean... that's the entire theme of the game. So obviously, they're gaining enjoyment from that. And frankly, people can be unfriendly pricks in online gaming, so if everyone cowed any time somebody gave them a hard time for not having it all figured out games would get a few thousand players at the start and then just stagnate until they died. Lastly, people enjoy griefing, wrong or right, so again, they're gaining enjoyment.

On the other hand, if the XP system I suggested were put in place, no matter what they did they'd have to have the game operating X amount of hours before they could join these level-locked servers. What would the point be in not just playing the game during those hours? Who would it occur to to even cheat that, and what difference would it make if they did? They could presumably cheat just about anything else thrown at them. Like I said: the objective is to deal with the uninitiated, not the career douchebags. You'll never be able to completely hinder the latter, ever.

As far as a tutorial goes, that is completely counter-intuitive to the Don't Starve experience. Completely. How is that uncompromising? A tutorial would either rob players of the fun of the learning experiences -- like your last torch running out before daylight with hounds on your tail, or freezing to death after the Deerclops trashes everything -- or be minimally effective. I think if you taught people how to make a torch or a campfire you wouldn't see the experience for yourself improve all that much, and if you go much further than that you're taking the fun away from them.

Honestly, at the end of the day, playing on openly accessible survival-mode servers is just inviting frustration. I really wish it wasn't the default mode, because I'd be willing to bet if it wasn't you'd see a good deal less of them, and the mode would ultimately be something mostly the experienced players would seek out. I also think there should be some common-sense stuff in place to alleviate the problems with new players joining survival servers, like grace periods in which players who have been on the server less than a certain number of days won't drain others' sanity when ghosts.

The game is a completely separate purchase, so it should be able to be played by itself. And telling people to do what amounts to homework before joining the game is neither fair nor fun.

[Lukmendes]

The thing about a newbie dying and getting in the way of others because they became a ghost can be solved by making a server in Wilderness, it'd honestly be better to make it the default mode, that way it won't be much of a problem if someone dies every 5 minutes, after all, the best way to learn is by making mistakes, and in this game, if you try to learn by yourself, you'll be making mistakes and dying a lot, and even with someone guiding you, you'll still die a lot, probably, so becoming a ghost gets in the way of learning about the basic about surviving, it also gets in the way when you're experimenting with characters, because if you're in Survival, and playing on a friend's server, if you eventualy find out you don't like the character you're playing, you can't change the character unless you leave the server or the server is reset (Unless there is a way I'm not aware of, but I haven't seen it).

I'm not saying Survival or Endless are bad modes because of the ghosts, but they can allienate the other players when you're a newbie who wants to learn, but are making mistakes along the way.

[ADinosaur]

Nobody likes spoilers, & being forced to read even about the basic mechanics ruins the fun of learning by yourself. This is why we all loved Don't Starve. There was no sappy tutorial or anything, it was a cruel unforgiving world that forced you to learn on your own to get anywhere, and we loved it. We shouldn't ruin that same feeling for the new players just because they didn't buy the game before the wiki came out.

[cezarica]

@verm1ll1on : You realize that newbies can't be bothered to read the forums? Or that the forum don't even exist for them?

[Nullum]

22 minutes ago, cezarica said:

@verm1ll1on : You realize that newbies can't be bothered to read the forums? Or that the forum don't even exist for them?

Hehehehehe........................

[cezarica]

In an around 850 days Endless server some new (2-3 hours game time) guy joined our camp. While I'm open for playing with new people, be it pro or newbie, I don't mind answering some questions or help out, but i found this particular guy rather annoying.

It was near winter's end and Deerclops was about to come around. Told him to follow with me away from the base in the open so in case I screw up something he wouldn't smash something important, like the entire base and in return asked me "why?". Took the time to explain and even made a nice and rather comfortable camp fire for him and told him to sit back, eat his popcorn or berries or whatever he wishes and enjoy the fight between me and Deerclops.

What he did instead? He completely ignored my request/advice and he attacked Clops... Needles to say he had no armor and just a tentacles spike and got hit. With me dodging Deerclop's hits i was urging him to back down and let me take Deerclops cos got armor and on top of that I know how to dance with him, yet he did it again just to piss me off and almost die.. if not died. Don't recall.. Anyway...

Gave him the link to wiki and told him to check out stuff, even went a step further and told him how to get mods from the workshop, especially to get rezecib's awesome Combined Status so he could keep an eye on his stats and most important his log meter, as he was playing with Woodie and got in beaver form like twice and he didn't knew what to do. Told him to chop and eat logs and still manages to die due to shadows.. Then no light...

I told him to look up for meatballs on the wiki and make them cos got fed up with him eating away my limited supply of honey, as was winter at that point, and most important got fed up with wet goop in the crock pots.

When he saw a Moosegoose nest close to base said we, meaning me and him, should take it down. When I was talking with a good friend of mine about making some time to take DF down and prepare for this he checked it out on wiki and basically told us that she's easy with just 2750 HP and that he's up for some butt kicking while he barely could tie his proverbial Don't Starve shoes laces.

While I admire people with a big pair of balls a lot of initiative and courage to take stuff head on, some people tend to mistakenly mix courage with plain stupidity and results are beyond expectations and quite hilarious at times.

So yeah, if you want to help out newbies first point them to the wiki and give them basic stuff to search for, like meatballs, and take it from there.

[verm1ll1on]

 

On 05/07/2016 at 10:50 AM, ADinosaur said:

Nobody likes spoilers, & being forced to read even about the basic mechanics ruins the fun of learning by yourself. This is why we all loved Don't Starve. There was no sappy tutorial or anything, it was a cruel unforgiving world that forced you to learn on your own to get anywhere, and we loved it. We shouldn't ruin that same feeling for the new players just because they didn't buy the game before the wiki came out.

Dude, that is only valid to Don't Starve, where you must think twice before doing anything, for the result might be the losing of your whole game... and that absolutely doesn't happen in DST.

 

If you die, you can just keep roaming around and ask people to stop what they're doing to go get your ghostly ass.

Also, I think the game has  a LOT for new people to discover and basic tools to gather resources, fire at night and flower for sanity are NOT part of the magical world of discovering things in Don't Starve. Those are just basics that everyone should be aware of and wouldn't, AT ALL, ruin the overall experience of the game. If they aren't aware of it, it's because of 2 things:

no one bothers to read a thing or two, they just go right in;

the game, which is harder and most servers are not fit to newbies, does not include any sort of tutorial to people ho haven't played or bought the single player version.

[Arlesienne]

I hear your pain, but there is no viable option to solve the problem of persistent ignorance. A serious player does not even have to finish a tutorial. They will ask questions and LEARN FROM THE ANSWERS. Also, research on the Web. This retains the fun from learning recipes and so on.

A player who just does not care and causes drama when someone tries to teach them will just take their toys elsewhere after ruining the fun for others.

I have been running servers geared towards allowing newbies to learn for a long time now. Most people I get are nice and appreciate the effort. Still... there are some who reply to my gesture of goodwill asking me to eff off. There is no solution for this type.

[EuedeAdodooedoe]

21 hours ago, verm1ll1on said:

 

Dude, that is only valid to Don't Starve, where you must think twice before doing anything, for the result might be the losing of your whole game... and that absolutely doesn't happen in DST.

 

If you die, you can just keep roaming around and ask people to stop what they're doing to go get your ghostly ass.

Also, I think the game has  a LOT for new people to discover and basic tools to gather resources, fire at night and flower for sanity are NOT part of the magical world of discovering things in Don't Starve. Those are just basics that everyone should be aware of and wouldn't, AT ALL, ruin the overall experience of the game. If they aren't aware of it, it's because of 2 things:

no one bothers to read a thing or two, they just go right in;

the game, which is harder and most servers are not fit to newbies, does not include any sort of tutorial to people ho haven't played or bought the single player version.

Why not design DST in such a way that there is a learning curve? Instead of you having to be curious about everything right off the bat, the game makes you curious about everything and helps you along the way by having certain indications as to what does what when you do something with something on something during something. Too much something, I think... or something

 

Basically, my point is that the game needs some serious redesigning for multiplayer if it's going to work in such fashion, especially for public gameplay. But designing it so that it teaches you in interesting ways and not just dying (which for some doesn't even teach the right thing or doesn't teach anything at all; in other words, they don't think about why, how and when they died and what they did wrong or assume things the wrong way, which then means they will still suck or suck even more at the game). To be honest, I have no idea how to re-design DST in such a way that bad situations make you worried like death or losing your world, without dying or losing your world. So, any thoughts? Perhaps developers themselves can come up with something good.