The real reason Wigfrid is overpowered

[enragedcamel]

It's not the fact that she regenerates health and sanity while fighting, or the fact that she has naturally higher damage output and resistance.

 

Wigfrid is overpowered because she starts with her special helm and spear.

 

This allows her to start murdering stuff right away. Unlike other characters who have to avoid spiders, tallbirds, koalephant tracks and everything else until they can build a science machine for spear and log armor, she can start farming that stuff as soon as she starts the game. And if she comes across clockworks during the first few days, she can farm all their gears and basically be set.

 

You might say, "but how is that different from Willow starting with her teddy bear, or Wendy starting with Abigail's Flower?" The answer is obvious: neither of those items can be used immediately at the beginning of the game.

 

My solution is simple: Wigfrid should start with 4 meats and nothing else. This would make the beginning of the game actually challenging for her, as she would have to scramble to find enough gold to craft her special items or otherwise a science machine for regular spear and log suit.

[ImDaMisterL]

I always thought it was because she was part of the Illuminati...

 

BUT YOUR THEORY MAKES MUCH MORE SENSE!

 

I totally agree with ya.

[TheShankingTurtle]

She needs to have her spear so she can get some food. The start is easier for others, but you can't go around just making traps in the beginning, it isn't fast enough

[ImDaMisterL]

She needs to have her spear so she can get some food. The start is easier for others, but you can't go around just making traps in the beginning, it isn't fast enough

Hmm... makes sense...

But you CAN live without your spear in the beginning. It's just harder, but you can.

[TheShankingTurtle]

Hmm... makes sense...

But you CAN live without your spear in the beginning. It's just harder, but you can.

Its hard because wigfrid would have to either spawn with a special food item that could give good saturation (It would give time before hunger went down again) or spawn with traps, which wouldn't go with her character 

 

 

[Johnnyprofane]

This allows her to start murdering stuff right away. Unlike other characters who have to avoid spiders, tallbirds, koalephant tracks and everything else until they can build a science machine for spear and log armor, she can start farming that stuff as soon as she starts the game. And if she comes across clockworks during the first few days, she can farm all their gears and basically be set.

Speak for yourself, if I find something I want dead before I've found gold, I just go all axe murderer on it. Sure, it takes a few more swings, but in all honesty, it's pretty easy to kill anything with just an axe and your birthday suit (no armor).

Now as far as pvp is concerned, you're absolutely right, she's OP compared to everyone else because of her fancy starting gear.

[PandaWaffles]

Just wait until Maxwell takes the stage.

[tracc]

If that is the only advantage which counts, Id say wickerbottom is much stronger since she can just build a spear, helmet and log suit. Maybe even boomerang?

I hate Wickers inability to sleep...

[Zinglon]

Totally agreed. Even free foods are served!

 

Her dominance comes from 1.25x damage multiplier and 3x durability of helm too.

[ImDaMisterL]

If that is the only advantage which counts, Id say wickerbottom is much stronger since she can just build a spear, helmet and log suit. Maybe even boomerang?

I hate Wickers inability to sleep...

Actually, no.

Wigfrid is more strong because not only she already spawns with her powerful as a tentacle spike spear abd resistant as a football helmet unicorn helmet, she also gains health and sanity whenever she kills something or someone.

And her damage multiplier is gigantic.

Reminds me of Wolfgang before he got his wimpy and mighty form, he just didn't have custom weapons, nor did he gain health, nor sanity when killing something...

[enragedcamel]

Speak for yourself, if I find something I want dead before I've found gold, I just go all axe murderer on it. Sure, it takes a few more swings, but in all honesty, it's pretty easy to kill anything with just an axe and your birthday suit (no armor).

Now as far as pvp is concerned, you're absolutely right, she's OP compared to everyone else because of her fancy starting gear.

 

If by "a few more swings" you mean literally twice as many swings, sure. Axe does 27.5 damage, vs. battle spear which does 53.125 damage in the hands of Wigfrid.

 

Killing a spider with an axe isn't a big deal, but come back to me when you can quickly and easily kill clockworks with it. You may be able to kill one, but it'll take you forever and you'll lose a substantial amount of health. In contrast, you can just face-tank them with Wigfrid.

[Johnnyprofane]

If by "a few more swings" you mean literally twice as many swings, sure. Axe does 27.5 damage, vs. battle spear which does 53.125 damage in the hands of Wigfrid.

Killing a spider with an axe isn't a big deal, but come back to me when you can quickly and easily kill clockworks with it. You may be able to kill one, but it'll take you forever and you'll lose a substantial amount of health. In contrast, you can just face-tank them with Wigfrid.

So I should come back when I can quickly and easily dispatch a clockwork with an axe? Ok, I'll come back like, a year and a half ago (the fact that mobs have more health in DST has little affect on my ability to kill them in melee).

An axe in the hands of Wigfried does 34 damage, not 27.5. If you're going to adjust for her damage boost, then please don't do it only in favor of your argument. Which means, a knight, with 900 hp takes 6 more hits to kill with an axe rather than a regular spear in the hands of most characters (33 instead of 27). Two swings takes maybe 3-4 seconds more, assuming you've got to kite one more series of attacks so that's at most 12 seconds, but because knights also have an animation where they just paw at the ground, that might be only 6 seconds. So it isn't terribly time consuming. With Wigfried it takes 22 hits instead of 27. Just 5 more hits. Nowhere near the "twice as many hits you claim. With the battle spear it changes to 17 hits instead of 27 with an axe. That is closer to the "twice as many" that you claimed, but if you believe 1.6 is the same as 2, let's have you give me $2 and I'll give you back $1.6 and we'll just do that, say, a million times.

And no, I don't lose a single point of health killing any clock works except the bishop, because dodging those stupid projectiles is impossible at close range. But even as Wigfried I would prioritize other things over killing bishops if I have yet to find an area for a base (or at least I've located sources of stone, poop, reefs, and probably pigs [mmmm bacon]). Knights are simple, and rooks you can pit against literally any other mob you find.

And if you want to say the difficulty in fighting mobs comes from fighting them in a group, then don't fight them in a group! Lure one away and then come back to deal with the others.

All of this is of course assuming you have a good host and aren't drowning in lag, which if you are, you have more pressing problems than whether or not you have a spear.

So in summation: starting with a battle spear over an axe isn't that big of a deal, unless we're talking about pvp where yes, she is still OP. But given that she can't utilize berries, carrots, or even butterfly wings until she has a crockpot, what do you suggest they do to balance her? Without a starting weapon to collect meat she would be screwed. She still has to find enough gold for a science machine for that, same as everyone else.

TLDR: 6 more hits are needed to kill a clockwork with an axe instead of a battle spear. Blah blah math, Wigfried is OP for pvp.

[Dipps]

So in summation: starting with a battle spear over an axe isn't that big of a deal, unless we're talking about pvp where yes, she is still OP. But given that she can't utilize berries, carrots, or even butterfly wings until she has a crockpot, what do you suggest they do to balance her? Without a starting weapon to collect meat she would be screwed. She still has to find enough gold for a science machine for that, same as everyone else.

 

Maybe they should get good? Wigfrid did so in her training. That's why she's rocking hard.

It's only a suggestion, given that she's #1 go-to char for beginners (along with Wilson, as he's the first character that pops up) for her abilities. Some are filtered out by the onlyeatmeat.png process, some go deeptank and forget to even press the attack button. But she's able to get her overpowered equipment without science machine; starting with it is just silly.

[enragedcamel]

So I should come back when I can quickly and easily dispatch a clockwork with an axe? Ok, I'll come back like, a year and a half ago (the fact that mobs have more health in DST has little affect on my ability to kill them in melee).

No, the point is that the longer a mob is alive, the more risk there is that you will get hit. And since a clockwork does 40 damage, getting hit twice will put most characters at half health. This means they are at a significant disadvantage to Wigfrid.

An axe in the hands of Wigfried does 34 damage, not 27.5. If you're going to adjust for her damage boost, then please don't do it only in favor of your argument.

We're comparing Wifgrid with other characters. Why would Wifgrid engage a mob with an axe when she has her spear?

And no, I don't lose a single point of health killing any clock works except the bishop, because dodging those stupid projectiles is impossible at close range.

The only way to guarantee not taking damage when fighting a clockwork knight is to wait until they do their charging animation to get a few hits in. Otherwise, they do their hit-and-run, and even if you dodge their blow you won't be able to hit them back since they have moved away at that point.

Health isn't the only issue either. The longer it takes you to kill something, the less time you're spending doing other things. Spending one third of a day fighting a single mob isnt ideal.

But even as Wigfried I would prioritize other things over killing bishops if I have yet to find an area for a base (or at least I've located sources of stone, poop, reefs, and probably pigs [mmmm bacon]).

Sure, you can do that in singleplayer, and on private multiplayer. But if you're on a public server, acquiring gears should be your top priority, since they tend to be very scarce and are the single most important item for a player's quality of life.

[Johnnyprofane]

No, the point is that the longer a mob is alive, the more risk there is that you will get hit. And since a clockwork does 40 damage, getting hit twice will put most characters at half health. This means they are at a significant disadvantage to Wigfrid.

We're comparing Wifgrid with other characters. Why would Wifgrid engage a mob with an axe when she has her spear?

The only way to guarantee not taking damage when fighting a clockwork knight is to wait until they do their charging animation to get a few hits in. Otherwise, they do their hit-and-run, and even if you dodge their blow you won't be able to hit them back since they have moved away at that point.

Health isn't the only issue either. The longer it takes you to kill something, the less time you're spending doing other things. Spending one third of a day fighting a single mob isnt ideal.

Sure, you can do that in singleplayer, and on private multiplayer. But if you're on a public server, acquiring gears should be your top priority, since they tend to be very scarce and are the single most important item for a player's quality of life.

You make several good points, I'll address them each separately.

 

1. Longer fights mean a higher probability of getting hit.  Mathematically this is true.  However, the mob being alive longer in theory shouldn't matter, if you're doing it right a mob shouldn't hit you regardless of how long you have to fight it.  Because the fighting mechanics in this game are basically just watch for patterns and exploit them, if you understand the pattern of a mob you should be able to never get hit when fighting it.

 

2.(not a point but I'm still adressing it) Why is Wigfreid using an axe?  In that situation, Wigfrid doesn't have her starting gear and thus defaults to the most efficient weapon available to her, i.e. an axe.  Because your argument is that Wigfreid is OP not  because of her damage boost but because of her starting gear, I was giving both Wigfreid with starting gear and without as reference points.

 

3.  Wasting time fighting mobs isn't ideal.  This is also true, but, as shown previously, the difference in time is minimal for a skilled player, and this is actually a point that argues that in fact, Wigfreid is not OP because of her starting gear or damage buff, but rather because the two of them combined is too great for the early game.

 

4. Looking for a location for a base or the location of vital materials should not be the priority in early game public servers.  This is also a good point, but unless the server is pvp (which we've already decided for pvp she's OP), it doesn't really matter if you get the gears first or not.  How are the other players going to prevent you from using the fling-o or the fridge?  If they refuse to cooperate and play nice, you could simply hammer things down and take them yourself, avoiding the need to take down that bishop anyways, meaning I'm still kind of right.  But on this point, I concede.  You are right you should prioritize gears, finding them in tumbleweeds is a pain.  

 

Anyways, the problem with your argument is that you're going about it the wrong way.  You're complaining that Wigfreid can take down enemies faster and more safely than other characters and then blaming it entirely on her equipment.  Because she has increased damage, she'll always take down enemies faster.  Because of her helmet and her damage reduction, she'll always take less damage when she gets hit (experienced players don't get hit very often anyways).  Because of her health regen, the damage she does take is negated.  Because of her spear, her damage output is again increased.  So it's all of her perks combined that lead to the problem, not any one perk.  But even if she did start without her battle spear, she would still have an edge on everyone else based on all her other perks. 

 

Whoo! Ok I think that's everything.

 

Oh yea @Dipps  Getting good certainly does have something to do with it, but the problem at hand is best address by an argument made by enragedcamel; if you're spending time fighting things you aren't doing other things. Because Wigfreid has to fight to eat, without a spear to allow her to kill things more quickly the amount of time she needs to be killing instead of foraging, exploring, etc, is compounded significantly.  That is what I meant when I said she would be screwed.  If every fight takes 12 seconds more and you have to fight constantly to get food, your day wastes away quite quickly.  Of course this is balanced slightly by the starting meat given to you, but still.

 

Ok, now THAT should be everything.  Dipps brought up a good point as well though.  If she started out with a regular spear, and needed a science machine or greater to make her special equipment it would be more balanced I think.  

 

TLDR: I can't remember what I wrote and to be honest, it's too long for me to bother reading it...

 

edit: Oh yea i forgot! Dipps, the other part of the time wasting that matters is that for every second you spend killing a mob, you lose more hunger, which is what really makes the problem of a weapon versus just an axe a problem. Also, @enragedcamel You can hit a knight twice after its attack safely regardless of if it's doing its charging animation, if it is that just makes it even easier.

[enragedcamel]

2.(not a point but I'm still adressing it) Why is Wigfreid using an axe?  In that situation, Wigfrid doesn't have her starting gear and thus defaults to the most efficient weapon available to her, i.e. an axe.  Because your argument is that Wigfreid is OP not  because of her damage boost but because of her starting gear, I was giving both Wigfreid with starting gear and without as reference points.

 

 

It's not just a matter of battle spear vs. axe. It's also a matter of helmet vs. no helmet. So yeah, there's a tremendous difference between battlespear + helmet vs. axe + no helmet. She would still be able to kill things with an axe, sure, but she would take a lot more damage on average, far more than her healing ability could negate. As a result, she would have to pick her battles carefully, instead of simply face-tanking and slaughtering everything in her path.

[Flare2V]

Are you sure wigfrid is overpowered? Starting with a fancy spear and helmet allows her to chase an opponent who also has no starting gear with little to worry about, but when is that ever a real problem in multiplayer? You can always have a friend set you both up with some gear away from the wigfrid negating her advantage almost immediately.

[enragedcamel]

Are you sure wigfrid is overpowered? Starting with a fancy spear and helmet allows her to chase an opponent who also has no starting gear with little to worry about, but when is that ever a real problem in multiplayer? You can always have a friend set you both up with some gear away from the wigfrid negating her advantage almost immediately.

 

I don't care much about PvP, which is why I didn't mention it in any of my posts.

 

In PvE, Wigfrid is inarguably the most overpowered character.

[subzero22]

have her just start off with a basic spear and 4 meat. As for her special items you would have to find gold to craft yourself. Since you don't have armor you most the time don't want to go hunting right away but it will still let you get something to fight with to get meat for the easier stuff.

[Flare2V]

I don't care much about PvP, which is why I didn't mention it in any of my posts.

 

In PvE, Wigfrid is inarguably the most overpowered character.

 

I takes under a day to set up an alchemy engine. Why is starting with a glorified football helmet/tentacle spike combo OP as all hell?

[XopherPM]

I don't care much about PvP, which is why I didn't mention it in any of my posts.

 

In PvE, Wigfrid is inarguably the most overpowered character.

 

In PvE her starting equipment is only a benefit for the first day or two, after that anyone can get equal or better gear. And you usually won't get much use out of them during that time anyway.

 

Her health and sanity regen takes about as much effort as any other means available to all the characters.

 

The only other real perk is her innate damage reduction, which will only make a huge difference against some epic monsters or giants. Against those she will still need to dodge or have extra armor and healing. A full Wolfgang would still be better in that situation, and Abigail is still better against large groups.

 

The only utility Wigfrid has is crafting the spear and helm, but neither are better than other easily obtained gear.

 

I'd say Wigfrid is more of an 'easy-start' character, than an overpowered character.

[Asparagus]

I'd say Wigfrid is more of an 'easy-start' character, than an overpowered character.

Let's not forget that she can basically eat monster meat and just kill more spiders to get her health and sanity back... 

[tracc]

I'd say Wigfrid is more of an 'easy-start' character, than an overpowered character.

 

I do think that Wigfrid is overpowered, since she gins both sanity and health from monsters and does more damage. The starting equipment is almost a non factor imo. Especially later in the game, when less hits/mob mean less resources spent she is easier. Also she leaves a much bigger room for mistakes

 

But this is DST, the characters are not supposed to be balanced. Wendy has a 0.75 dmg multiplier which makes life much herder for her (Abigail just suicides with most mobs except for spiders); Wilson can easily build unlimited ressurection statues; Wes is Wes.

 

WIgfrid is the character that i gave to friends which wanted to learn DST. She is the easiest to play with.

[Dipps]

In PvE her starting equipment is only a benefit for the first day or two, after that anyone can get equal or better gear. And you usually won't get much use out of them during that time anyway.

 

Her health and sanity regen takes about as much effort as any other means available to all the characters.

 

The only other real perk is her innate damage reduction, which will only make a huge difference against some epic monsters or giants. Against those she will still need to dodge or have extra armor and healing. A full Wolfgang would still be better in that situation, and Abigail is still better against large groups.

 

The only utility Wigfrid has is crafting the spear and helm, but neither are better than other easily obtained gear.

 

I'd say Wigfrid is more of an 'easy-start' character, than an overpowered character.

 

whatsop.avi

[enragedcamel]

I takes under a day to set up an alchemy engine. Why is starting with a glorified football helmet/tentacle spike combo OP as all hell?

 

Don't be ridiculous. It takes a lot longer than a day to build an alchemy engine. Even if you get lucky and stumble across a rock biome, you still have to gather 20 wood.

 

On top of that, placing down the alchemy engine before you find a good location for a base is a mistake. It's a lot smarter to wait until you're ready to actually settle down. Otherwise you'll have to build a second one later, which is a waste of materials.

 

(You also need to kill pigs for a football helmet, and find a swamp and wait until a tentacle is killed and drops a tentacle spike. Combine all of that and it's definitely a lot longer than a day.)