The real reason Wigfrid is overpowered

[enragedcamel]

In PvE her starting equipment is only a benefit for the first day or two, after that anyone can get equal or better gear. And you usually won't get much use out of them during that time anyway.

 

Her health and sanity regen takes about as much effort as any other means available to all the characters.

 

The only other real perk is her innate damage reduction, which will only make a huge difference against some epic monsters or giants. Against those she will still need to dodge or have extra armor and healing. A full Wolfgang would still be better in that situation, and Abigail is still better against large groups.

 

The only utility Wigfrid has is crafting the spear and helm, but neither are better than other easily obtained gear.

 

I'd say Wigfrid is more of an 'easy-start' character, than an overpowered character.

 

I don't know what you're smoking but I want some.

 

Her combat regen is one of the best abilities in the game. It means she doesn't have to worry about crafting sanity gear, beds/tents or healing items/food except in extreme circumstances (fighting lots of high-damage mobs). This results in huge savings in materials, not to mention time.

 

She can also use green mushrooms as crockpot filler, as opposed to needing to cook and eat them to remain sane.

 

I'm also interested in hearing how "anyone can get equal or better gear" after day one or two. Her helm is the best that is currently in the game, period. And the only weapon that's better than battle spear and is relatively easy to make is Ham Bat, and that not only requires Alchemy Engine* but also takes a pig skin and two large meats -- resources Wigfrid doesn't have to spend. Tentacle Spike is a lot harder to acquire early on (you have to get lucky and come across a group of merms that have killed a tentacle).

 

*Regarding Alchemy Engine, let me repeat what I said above: good players won't place it down until they find a good location for a base, which can take several days.

[applebottom]

I'm good with her when I'm playing alone since you can focus on chasing koalefants immediately. But when your playstyle is "Meet With Strangers And Build A Camp Together", her meat-only trait is a liability. She can't just eat anything so she can't spend a precious half day being heroic and looking for glands for a dead comrade or gears for the icebox or whatever.

 

I find Wickerbottom best for the World Peace playstyle because she can craft things right off the bat and she has no meat-only problem. She can munch on seeds for a few more minutes while the Wigfrids of the camp are using the crockpot to hurriedly cook meatballs or something. She can also go scouting without having to bring lunch because she can eat anything she can scavenge, even raw mushrooms if desperate.

 

Knowing your playstyle from your other forum posts, I can see why you'd think that Wigfrid is perfect. But she's not the best character all around. Neither is Wickerbottom. It's just diff chars for diff players.

[SuperPsiPower]

In PvE her starting equipment is only a benefit for the first day or two, after that anyone can get equal or better gear. And you usually won't get much use out of them during that time anyway.

 

This is very true as I see Wigfrids without helms all the time. She may have a helm at start, but because she needs to hunt meat, she will probably lose her armor if the player isn't being careful enough.

 

I don't know what you're smoking but I want some.

 

 

If you're gonna make a thread, make sure you're respectful as you undoubtedly will receive counter arguments. 

 

 

 

I takes under a day to set up an alchemy engine. Why is starting with a glorified football helmet/tentacle spike combo OP as all hell?

 

 

Again, Also true. I get alchemy up in one days time by hammering pig houses and getting half I need for the Alchemy, all I really need then is 5 gold to prototype and make doodads. And bam I can make a spear and helm.

[enragedcamel]

If you're gonna make a thread, make sure you're respectful as you undoubtedly will receive counter arguments. 

 

There isn't anything disrespectful about what I said.

 

First rule of the Internet: if you're going to get offended at the smallest thing, don't participate in discussions.

[ImDaMisterL]

@SuperPsiPower, Alchemy engines under a day? You're the luckiest guy I know.

[MaybeBernie]

@SuperPsiPower, Alchemy engines under a day? You're the luckiest guy I know.

 

I make an Alchemy Engine 5 minutes into the game. Beat that.

[RalphKastro]

Isn't a strong start kind of her thing, much like starting weak is WX's thing? Only thing that feels off is that this strong start is not countered by much unlike Wickerbottom's inability to sleep which can really screw an unexperienced Wickerbottom player(note on the "unexperienced").

I would think that either reducing the stuff she gets from combat(or removing either the Health or the Sanity increase), making it so that meat is less common or her hunger drains faster, or some other mid-late game nerf would make her more suitable.

[leonseye]

Isn't a strong start kind of her thing, much like starting weak is WX's thing? Only thing that feels off is that this strong start is not countered by much unlike Wickerbottom's inability to sleep which can really screw an unexperienced Wickerbottom player(note on the "unexperienced").

I would think that either reducing the stuff she gets from combat(or removing either the Health or the Sanity increase), making it so that meat is less common or her hunger drains faster, or some other mid-late game nerf would make her more suitable.

 

In your analogy though, Wickerbottom not only gets a strong start, but she is also one of the best late-game characters hands-down thanks to her books.

 

In that case, it doesn't really make a lot of sense to nerf another character for late-game while using a character who is strong both early and late game as an example.  <.<

 

Also... Maxwell.  And Woodie, soon enough.  There will be other characters for us to cry OP about in a while, who are just as strong as Wigfrid.

[absimiliard]

{edit:  Damn, SuperPsiPower beat me to it}

 

 

Don't be ridiculous. It takes a lot longer than a day to build an alchemy engine. Even if you get lucky and stumble across a rock biome, you still have to gather 20 wood.

 

<<<snippity-snip-snip-snip>>>

 

(You also need to kill pigs for a football helmet, and find a swamp and wait until a tentacle is killed and drops a tentacle spike. Combine all of that and it's definitely a lot longer than a day.)

 

Not going to get into when or where to place an alchemy engine, as that really is a topic in it's own right.  (science engines you just drop whenever you need them and then hammer back to gold)

 

But -- just hammer a few pig houses.  You get all the stone/boards you need for the alchemy engine, plus pig-skins aplenty.  At that point all you need is the gold for it, and that's not usually too tough.  (heck, get to the pig-king w. meat or trinkets to trade and you've got that as well)

 

Personally, I always rebuild at least one pig-house, to provide recurring pig-skins, but that's just me.

[SuperPsiPower]

I make an Alchemy Engine 5 minutes into the game. Beat that.

Pics or it didnt happen

[ImDaMisterL]

Pics or it didnt happen

How will a pic prove anything, though?

[RalphKastro]

In your analogy though, Wickerbottom not only gets a strong start, but she is also one of the best late-game characters hands-down thanks to her books.

well, yes but the inability to sleep is a very big draw-back. Or was, in DS. Now that I think about it, she needs nerfing too. 

[leonseye]

well, yes but the inability to sleep is a very big draw-back. Or was, in DS. Now that I think about it, she needs nerfing too. 

 

Maxwell, who gets better starting gear and ridiculous sanity regen at the cost of lower health which becomes pretty mucn negligible late-game?

 

Woodie, whose gathering speed for wood is just awesome and werebeaver form that puts Wigfrid to complete shame?

 

You want to nerf them too?  And Wickerbottom?

 

At this point, it really seems more like the characters are kind of balanced against one another if you are going to go around nerfing everybody.

[RalphKastro]

You want to nerf them too?  And Wickerbottom?

yes. Not really nerf, but rebalance. Those perks were made with singleplayer in mind, with working by yourself and being the only player in the world was a big thing.

However in DST, certain perks from certain characters are easily balanced against either by the simple interactions between players or by the fact that old strategies the perk negated or made worse are no longer viable(like WB not sleeping, or the massive amount of koalephant meat to satiate Wigfrid.)

Woodie is already getting a rework, as his ability to go perma-Werebeaver with the help of a player is just too powerful, and Maxwell is already kind of OP by nature, so I'm not sure about that.

Other character like Wendy, Wilson, WX and Wolfgang feel more balanced in that they both have perks and disadvantages that are solvable through either teamwork or just gitting gud(or maybe both), but not to a point where these disadvantages become a non-issue.

At this point, it really seems more like the characters are kind of balanced against one another if you are going to go around nerfing everybody.

well, but what I'm suggesting isn't for PvP, because, in PvP, since the main approach is combat, there will always be stronger characters, and Wendy will never be able to reach the same power as Maxwell, Wigfrid or Wolfgang. There's no point in balancing characters against each other if there'll always be the combat characters and the surviving characters that will get murdered by the combat characters.

[leonseye]

well, but what I'm suggesting isn't for PvP, because, in PvP, since the main approach is combat, there will always be stronger characters, and Wendy will never be able to reach the same power as Maxwell, Wigfrid or Wolfgang. There's no point in balancing characters against each other if there'll always be the combat characters and the surviving characters that will get murdered by the combat characters.

 

 

I wasn't actually talking about PvP, perhaps it was a poor choice of words.  <.<

 

I just meant that when compared to characters like Woodie (who we still have absolutely no idea how he's actually being rebalanced), Maxwell, and Wickerbottom, Wigfrid doesn't really feel OP to me.

 

They are all strong characters in their own right, as they've always been.

 

I'm honestly not opposed to a rebalance for multiplayer, but I don't really feel that it's necessary.

[Asparagus]

How will a pic prove anything, though?

How about a video? O__O

This was an old vid I had to test out my recording software... (I messed up and the cursor didn't appear)

So... yes one can make an Alchemy Engine in under a day... I could've made one earlier but I wasn't prioritizing it... also... I haven't gotten around to cutting the video so... &^$RF&TBlarg O__O

*flies away on fart bubbles*

 

[XopherPM]

I don't know what you're smoking but I want some.

 

Her combat regen is one of the best abilities in the game. It means she doesn't have to worry about crafting sanity gear, beds/tents or healing items/food except in extreme circumstances (fighting lots of high-damage mobs). This results in huge savings in materials, not to mention time.

 

She can also use green mushrooms as crockpot filler, as opposed to needing to cook and eat them to remain sane.

 

I'm also interested in hearing how "anyone can get equal or better gear" after day one or two. Her helm is the best that is currently in the game, period. And the only weapon that's better than battle spear and is relatively easy to make is Ham Bat, and that not only requires Alchemy Engine* but also takes a pig skin and two large meats -- resources Wigfrid doesn't have to spend. Tentacle Spike is a lot harder to acquire early on (you have to get lucky and come across a group of merms that have killed a tentacle).

 

*Regarding Alchemy Engine, let me repeat what I said above: good players won't place it down until they find a good location for a base, which can take several days.

 

If you have trouble building an Alchemy Engine, getting pigskin, killing a tentacle, and/or managing your sanity/health then Wigfrid is probably a good character for you. That's what I meant by an 'easy-start' character.

 

Otherwise the other characters' various perks are usually more useful.

 

I usually have an Alchemy Engine buffered by day 1, and can just drop it down when I need it. But I guess I'm bad at this game.

 

[enragedcamel]

If you have trouble building an Alchemy Engine, getting pigskin, killing a tentacle, and/or managing your sanity/health then Wigfrid is probably a good character for you. That's what I meant by an 'easy-start' character.

 

Otherwise the other characters' various perks are usually more useful.

 

I usually have an Alchemy Engine buffered by day 1, and can just drop it down when I need it. But I guess I'm bad at this game.

 

 

 

Please. I have 266 hours logged on DST alone, so I think I know what I'm talking about. It takes a total of 20 wood, 16 stones and 5 gold to build an alchemy engine. There's no way you can build one on the first day unless you get lucky and come across a rock or mosaic biome close to the portal. (Not to mention starting a few days into the game, in which case good luck finding any flint nearby to make even the most basic tools.)

 

As for sanity, yes, managing it can absolutely be an issue in multiplayer due to the ghosts' sanity drain. And on public servers there will often be at least 1 ghost present. Experienced players can deal with it of course, but it still takes a fair amount of time and resources to keep sanity up and fight a constant stream of shadow creatures. Wigfrid's ability really helps mitigate that nuisance.

[XopherPM]

Please. I have 266 hours logged on DST alone

 

Aww, that's super.

 

It takes a total of 20 wood, 16 stones and 5 gold to build an alchemy engine. There's no way you can build one on the first day unless you get lucky and come across a rock or mosaic biome close to the portal. (Not to mention starting a few days into the game, in which case good luck finding any flint nearby to make even the most basic tools.)

I guess I and everyone in this thread who doesn't have a problem getting these mats on day one are just always lucky.

 

As for sanity, yes, managing it can absolutely be an issue in multiplayer due to the ghosts' sanity drain. And on public servers there will often be at least 1 ghost present. Experienced players can deal with it of course, but it still takes a fair amount of time and resources to keep sanity up and fight a constant stream of shadow creatures. Wigfrid's ability really helps mitigate that nuisance.

I usually play Wendy, so while Wigfrid has to spend time killing for sanity I can be doing other things. And that's my whole point, the other characters have perks that someone who plays Wigfrid gives up just for some starting gear.

Of course one could start comparing how much extra time it takes Wendy to kill something with and without Abigail, etc. Eventually it comes down to playstyle, but I don't think either is objectively a better character than the other.

In your opening post you said you think Wigfrid is over-powered because of her starting gear. I'm saying that it's not that much of a benefit and not over-powered. Her biggest perk is a quick start, but for many people the other characters' perks are better.

[Flare2V]

Don't be ridiculous. It takes a lot longer than a day to build an alchemy engine. Even if you get lucky and stumble across a rock biome, you still have to gather 20 wood.

 

On top of that, placing down the alchemy engine before you find a good location for a base is a mistake. It's a lot smarter to wait until you're ready to actually settle down. Otherwise you'll have to build a second one later, which is a waste of materials.

 

(You also need to kill pigs for a football helmet, and find a swamp and wait until a tentacle is killed and drops a tentacle spike. Combine all of that and it's definitely a lot longer than a day.)

 

Even mediocre players can have a science machine down by day one and be rocking the logsuit/spear combo, which is not that much worse than wigfrid's starting gear. What are your arguing points, again?

[enragedcamel]

Even mediocre players can have a science machine down by day one and be rocking the logsuit/spear combo, which is not that much worse than wigfrid's starting gear. What are your arguing points, again?

 

Log suit and spear require materials, and they aren't as good (both in terms of durability and effectiveness) as helm and battle spear.

[leonseye]

Log suit and spear require materials, and they aren't as good (both in terms of durability and effectiveness) as helm and battle spear.

 

Axe and Golden Axe require materials, and they aren't as good (both in terms of durability and effectiveness) as Lucy.

 

There's nothing wrong w/ some unique items being better than the standard ones.

[enragedcamel]

Axe and Golden Axe require materials, and they aren't as good (both in terms of durability and effectiveness) as Lucy.

 

There's nothing wrong w/ some unique items being better than the standard ones.

 

Yes, but starting with those unique items?

 

Why doesn't Wickerbottom start with The End is Nigh?

[leonseye]

Yes, but starting with those unique items?

 

Why doesn't Wickerbottom start with The End is Nigh?

 

...does Woodie not start w/ Lucy, suddenly?  Maxwell doesn't start w/ Night Armor and Dark Sword?

 

Exactly who in this game doesn't start w/ their unique items?

 

Woodie's Werebeaver form seems to be buffed, what w/ him not dropping his inventory or backpack anymore.  And even if he loses Lucy, any old axe will auto-magically morph into Lucy as soon as he takes a swing at a tree.

 

I don't think this is really a valid argument.  <.<

[Silxer]

Yes, but starting with those unique items?

 

Why doesn't Wickerbottom start with The End is Nigh?

 

I guess because she already has other benefits so it wasn't necessary for her to start with her own unique item (aside from the papyrus she starts off with).

 

Much like how WX-78, Wolfgang, and Wilson don't start off any unique items.