Character Rebalance Discussion thread

[J20hawkz]

There has been alot of interest in a bow as a new weapon. Maybe this item can be unique to Wilson. He can have his own exclusive battle crafting tab. The guy is a genious and your telling me he doesn't know how to make one of the most over used survival/hunter items in both the virtual and real world?

[Orima-Kazooie]

Oh yes, I take every chance I can get to interject that Wilson should have advantage when/if Mad Science ever makes it into the game. Also to interject that Mad Science should be put into the game. To me it would be worth Wilson staying as he is for 3 months more, if only I knew that eventually these things would come to pass.

Edit: And ya, I wasn't suggesting that one needs all four things to keep warm. But with the beard, you have more options to wear other non-warmth stuff. Like packs or helmets. Or have an extra inventory space if you don't like heat stones. More options, is what I was saying.

Due to the way warmth works, it also increases Wilson's maximum capacity for warmth from 600 to 735, which I do beleive will keep you warm just about all day long without needing to warm back up on a typical winter day.

If we want to give Wilson another perk, let him keep the beard when he dies. It's pretty situational, but I can't be the only one who occasionally forgets to prepare supplies around a touchstone and loses the game by freezing to death trying to return to my base from the stone. It's a subtle bonus, but it saves resources when setting up emergency stuff around a touch stone. Saves a lotta rocks at the least.

[Orima-Kazooie]

If Wilson was able to keep frogs and spiders after catching them with a trap, instead of automatically killing them, I think that would be awesome.

This gives me a fantastic idea but it's way too specialized for the baseline character.I think I'll share anyways.One character should be able to trap a rabbit/beardling/frog/spider/bird/capture a butterfly/bee/killer bee and remove a nonmeat resource from it without killing it.It doesn't seem impossible to harvest bear hair without killing a beardling, or take the feather from a bird, or devenomize or silk a spider without killing it. It'd be a great weird little perk I think. Maybe it should replace the "Murder" option with a "Harvest" option and give you a one-in-three chance to get the non-fatal resource without killing the creature?

[J20hawkz]

I think this notion of saying Wilson is a base line character should be stopped. Every character should be unique and be fun and equally challenging to use. Just because he is the first character doesnt mean anything. You can argue he is unique in the sense he grows a beard. But after all the changes we are getting on all the other characters he wont be fun or challenging to use. Eventually people will stop playing as him and just rotate through all the other characters.Dont get me wrong I'm going to use and abuse every character for billions of hours, thats just how awesome you guys are making them, but Wilson should get the same special treatment, just so we can go back to using him again.To me, and as a big fan of this game I think the devs have just ran out of ideas to improve or add something that makes Wilson stand out like the rest of the other characters. A beard just doesn't cut it anymore. You can have a million ways to use a beard but at the end of the day its just...a beard. I hope you prove me wrong Kevin.

Edited June 19, 2013 by J20hawkz

[Kevin]

It's not just a beard. It's a *magnificent* beard.I do want to keep Wilson as the baseline character, or at least the character with the newbie friendly perks. You need something with which to compare everyone else's positives and negatives. I eventually want to add some rather esoteric characters that aren't in balance with the others, but do provide an interesting experience.

[J20hawkz]

It's not just a beard. It's a *magnificent* beard.[ATTACH=CONFIG]9599[/ATTACH]I do want to keep Wilson as the baseline character, or at least the character with the newbie friendly perks. You need something with which to compare everyone else's positives and negatives. I eventually want to add some rather esoteric characters that aren't in balance with the others, but do provide an interesting experience.

Trying to convince me with one of my all time favourite sci-fi series I grew up watching as a kid wont work :)I respect your ideas and as a "newb friendly" character he is perfect. But he is the main character. In a few years time people will say look at all the cool perks all the other playable characters got and look what the main character got. I can imagine that coming from an IGN reviewer. He has to have something that is both a "wow factor" and learner friendly for the new guys. I know you have great ideas and I know you could add something special to him if you wanted to. Do it as a final update like a goodbuy and enjoy our master piece sort of thing. We can wait :)Edit: Seeing as you brought up a comparison to Riker's beard which they kept through out the series he was second in command most of his career. He then became captain aboard the USS Titan. Wilson HAS to have something added now Edited June 20, 2013 by J20hawkz

[Syd]

I've said earlier in the thread that it seems that the problem people are having with Wilson's perks isn't that they're bad, but that he's going to seem dull compared to the other characters, at least to the existing playerbase, because he's the only one not getting anything new. It's like it's Christmas for the Don't Starve characters, and everyone got a gift except for Wilson.I love what's being done with the other characters, but as a dedicated Wilson player, I have to say that it's hard to not feel just a little left out of the next update.However, I'm not too sure what to do with Wilson's perks to freshen him up a bit without messing with his balance too much.

[oCrapaCreeper]

I've said earlier in the thread that it seems that the problem people are having with Wilson's perks isn't that they're bad, but that he's going to seem dull compared to the other characters, at least to the existing playerbase, because he's the only one not getting anything new. It's like it's Christmas for the Don't Starve characters, and everyone got a gift except for Wilson.I love what's being done with the other characters, but as a dedicated Wilson player, I have to say that it's hard to not feel just a little left out of the next update.However, I'm not too sure what to do with Wilson's perks to freshen him up a bit without messing with his balance too much.

I have to agree with Syd here. In comparison, Wilson is just dull right now with the standing character changes. Willow gets a nice infinite fuel lighter, and other abilities relating to fire and future heat-related mechanics.Wes is Wes.Wolfgang isn't much of a "I win!" button anymore, that's all I can say about him. Abigail is going to be much more useful, and change almost everyone's playstyle with Wendy.Wickerbottom has books that could potentially change a lot of people's playstyle, on top of being able to unlock stuff early and completely skip the Shadow Manipulator tier.WX-78 just seems god-like at the moment with the whole gear-eating thing, and the overload from being struck by lightning.We don't know what Maxwell will do until it's his turn, but right now he regains sanity and has access to powerful items early. Good for an end-game reward.And then Wilson... Who grows a beard for Meat Effigies and winter survival. Meanwhile, in the amount of time it takes Wilson to grow a beard long enough to make 1 Effigy, the other characters can get enough beard hair to make around 5 of them from simply farming beardlings. The extra insulation from winter is really the main perk of the beard right now, which is pretty dull compared to everyone else. Edited June 20, 2013 by oCrapaCreeper

[Jac]

Tell me a negative about Wilson, besides not getting all the new changes other chars are getting.

There is none.

[*]Willow is lower max sanity, randomly starts a fire when really low, and takes up 1 inventory spot for a small torch.

[*]WX-98 gets damaged in rain, and lightning drains your sanity.

[*]Wes....

[*]Wolfgang's sanity drains faster, requires constant eating to sustain his perk, and penalty if trying to eat at low. If you don't want the penalty, you need to bring a lot of small food with you, and this also means meaty stew isn't an option, kind of ironic.

[*]Wendy has lower damage, takes up one spot for the hairpiece (2 if you want to bring an animal to sacrifice for summon), and you need to pick up the hairpiece (this might be minor annoyance, but could also be the death of you). Oh, and Abigail is probably still a hostile, meaning you can't sleep.

[*]Wickerbottom is insomniac and picky eater, and maybe very reed dependent. Insomniac probably means you can't use sleep roll/tent at all, and that's huge sanity loss there.

Edited June 20, 2013 by Jac
forgot Wolfgang

[Loadingicon]

I would love to see WX-78 eat light bulbs and have glowing eyes like headlights. Also if he could craft a little clockwork pawn that helps him collect things.

[MycoLogical]

I'm happy with Wickerbottom; for what it's worth

[OVER9000NUKES]

Tell me a negative about Wilson, besides not getting all the new changes other chars are getting.

There is none.

[*]Willow is lower max sanity, randomly starts a fire when really low, and takes up 1 inventory spot for a small torch.

[*]WX-98 gets damaged in rain, and lightning drains your sanity.

[*]Wes....

[*]Wendy has lower damage, takes up one spot for the hairpiece (2 if you want to bring an animal to sacrifice for summon), and you need to pick up the hairpiece (this might be minor annoyance, but could also be the death of you). Oh, and Abigail is probably still a hostile, meaning you can't sleep.

[*]Wickerbottom is insomniac and picky eater, and maybe very reed dependent. Insomniac probably means you can't use sleep roll/tent at all, and that's huge sanity loss there.

Wilson's negative will be that hes not as good as everyone else...

[jbeetle]

Tell me a negative about Wilson, besides a negative about Wilson.

[OVER9000NUKES]

oh I have a good one! Wilson could have a way of "experimenting" with an item, using it up, but restoring a small amount of sanity?meh, its an idea

[jbeetle]

oh I have a good one! Wilson could have a way of "experimenting" with an item, using it up, but restoring a small amount of sanity?meh, its an idea

like...prototyping.he's fine

[brummbar7]

- To say WX is godlike now is a bit premature. That could easily be nerfed. It is well to remember that everything so far is preliminary

- Depending on how the final numbers and mechanic works, I'd say Wolfgang is straight up getting nothing but nerfed - I'm still interested though, because he'll apparently have a unique appearance mechanic.

- Wendy is quite frankly getting upped from having what almost amounted to no perk imo, to actually having a perk. But also with a significant penalty

- I consider Willow's and Wickerbottoms setups marginally better better than they were - Willow's probably much better when lava caverns arrive, but that was a pre-existing perk anyway. Her new perk for me is rather meh. Except in last world of adventure mode, of course. But both also got significant minuses.

I really don't see where everyone else is getting pumped up all badass to Wilson's detriment. We have Wendy, WX, and Wickerbottom being made playable, Wolfgang being nerfed, and Wilson Wes and Willow more or less treading water. That's how I see it. At least Wilson's meat effigy actually looks like him.

[Jac]

I didn't mention Wilson's perk because someone has already mentioned it in this thread.He gets a freaking 4th equip-able slot, or a free inventory slot during winter.People go through Krampus to get 2 extra slot, and Wilson gets that automatically for free.Please appreciate Wilson more, I know I am.

Tell me a negative about Wilson, besides a negative about Wilson.

There's nothing wrong with how I use besides."Tell me a way to kill koalefant, besides using a weapon." Edited June 20, 2013 by Jac

[YouKnowWho]

Wait....i just realizedThat if you used More tentacles (a book) near a lightning rod if would go to the lightning rodAnd make unlimited power until you save and quit! Making wickerbottem the Cook stuff with crockpot while sitting in near the lightning rod type of character...I think this should be changed

[Maximum124]

I think people are complaining about Wilson because we're used to him being like this. Even though his perks and stuff is pretty fair hes still the baseline character. (though I do like the idea that the meat effigy's health penalty doesn't effect him)

I think people just want to see new things with him because hes just always been like this. Hes always going to get compared to the others because he has to; Wilson's the template.

that doesn't make the template bad, it just makes him the most bland.

And I personally think that bland isn't a bad thing. Its just the base on which the other things are built upon.

Which ya kinda need.

[Shadow_Of_Awesome]

Wait I got a idea for wilson! When Wilson grows a full beard, if he doesn't shave it off. He gets 4 more inventory slots! He would be able to store stuff in his beard, and! be warmer for winter. He could also have for the negative is his beard will burn if he is near fire, Like if you light a food on a torch it will not only turn to ash but stay in the inventory and burn his beard! than it will burn him.

[Doomfan64]

If Wilson eats a whole lot of monster meat he should get a monster beard that helps him in combat. The monster beard would stay on him for a long time, before wearing off.

[LuckyMole]

Incoming Wall of Text! Subject: Maxwell.

And it is only because I don't like him at all I'll try to give some suggestions about him. And thank you Kevin for not deciding what his specialty is going to be yet. If it's in another patch even better, so there is more time to make the right choices for his abilities as he is as much important to the game as Wilson is if not even more and deserves special attention.

I've read all the suggestions in this topic and I'll say only what fits him NOT. I already said what I want him to have previously. What fits him right is up to Kevin as he should know more about him more than we all know right now(unless you forget again something Kevin ).

1. First of when I unlocked him and saw what he has it seemed to me that some of his stuff is just rushed and it's there just for the sake of something being there. Actually only the low health was what I though was fitting as he is the last character thus playing with him should not be that easy, but at least it should be interesting or fun. And... it was not. A lot of you praise the shadow sword and armor and I don't get it. Why do you? Adventure mode is passable without them. Sandbox mode is even easier. I only make them from a completionist stand point. After that they just lay around in one of the chests forgotten. And at the same time many people complain that sanity is an issue. If your rabbits turned to beardlings when you are at zero sanity it could be for some but not really. Zero sanity does not mean instant death. But panicking when it happens could kill you. I am under the impression that if it was not that "hard" to get regularly the needed amounts of fuel for the weapon and armor most of you wouldn't say that Maxwell is good as he is.

So I was standing next to Maxwell's door with Maxwell after I beat adventure mode with the "cool" shadowy tools and was like "well gee game I have a chestfull of fuel from before and didn't use it to make the sword and armor. thanks for nothing" And quit this save file and still refusing to play it. Will play when they fix Maxwell.

When you use up your shadow sword and armor Maxwell feels like a vanila character. Like old Wickerbottom was when you research everything and don't get to feel any uniqueness(other than her ingame art). You could argue that dapperness is good... or getting the Tam is hard. I don't want to sound too harsh but if you have completed adventure mode LEGITLY how can sanity be a problem for you? Without the Tam!? And what about all other things that give you sanity that are even easier to get. Dapperness is a REDUNDANT perk! Now let's say you are over your initial sanity issues. Like you play the game go dig a grave then another untill you reach zero and then you don't go to sleep in a tent or put a Tam, but continue to explore on zero for like 3-4 days and not go to your base. Why do I have the feeling that this is terrifying for many people? Sanity is just the type of stat to scare you so that you make a fatal mistake that kills you. I also love how many people are like "yes he should get a sanity penalty, he is too OP" And I am thinking - well why doesn't Kevin think up a "crazy difficult" and OP character that has 31 max sanity(I am saying 31 and not 30 because I know with that one more to the max there will be someone that would say that having 30 always is unplayable and having 31 is going to make you REALLY play smart... NOT! ), but compensates with it by being a total power house. I want that! Really do! Anyway just find one of those sanity barriers than pick your base appart and place it on the other side. It will take you several trips, but in the end there will be no fear left in you from being on zero forever!(I am not even going to finish this horror story because the hard thing came after I set the base and it wasn't the nightmare creatures)

It makes much more sense to go insane lol when you can deal with it eventually. Finishing Adventure mode suggest that you are ready for that don't you think. And Dapperness is useless to the point where I have to do more stuff to go insane.

Sorry If I am being elitist but I am making this argument only for Maxwell. You are supposed to be good after adventure.

Dark sword/armor one use equals a non existent perk. Dapperness - my eyes roll when I think about it ever being usefull to me or any experienced DS player. Only good thing about is the word Dapper

2. Another issue I see here and on other forums(not Maxwell related but annoying) fanboys will be fanboys and will accept and like eveything that their virtual master comes up with. Kevin I am looking at you. Since you are the master of this game

About that merm idea..... No No No NO NO NO NOOOOOO! Think about it. Weren't merms just one of many species that were created by Maxwell in the overworld. Why did you want to put them as M's friends? Why not something else? But that's not the point. The point is that by making them your allies you are only saving me 4 monster meat that I'd usually give to pigs, maybe. Another redundant idea. And how much meat or veg will it save you dear reader of this reduculously long post? And what if befriending merms doesn't really save you meat and you still have to give them something to follow you? What is the point? Merms are in swamps and to get to them or choose to put your base near them you have to have several beneficial conditions that you don't get very often. Lets say you could build their houses with Maxwell. If you do that, that means you have to put the pigs away from them so that they don't kill each other unless you want them to. But what is so special about them to make you prefer them over the pigs? If you argue RP or that you like them over the pigs' cute derpyness I'm gonna through the monitor haha. But seriously why? Why do I need merms? In any form? I'd like to hear some fanboys here lol. I am a fan too but that's not enough to make me accept everything that Kevin suggests without thinking it through.

3. Music box idea - i like it but at the same time it is very illogical. As an item it fits, but not for M. He hates it. And when you stop the musc and turn it back on he says something like "I guess I deserve that"

Maxwell should be stripped from everything and be done anew entirely. For me he was just the biggest disapoinT in this game. Although everything else is getting better and better, there is no denying that. Love you Kevin, don't make me jump on you for that merm idea lol JK )))

4? Also If you think I just waisted some time, BIG time writing this, you should know that my only other option was to write or phone my exgf and have even more regrets that I already do. =)

Edited June 20, 2013 by LuckyMole

[oCrapaCreeper]

-The Great Wall of China-

There are really no problems with Maxwell right now, balance wise. The ability to ignore sanity, use magic items more frequently, start with good gear, and make a shadow manipulator early is balanced really well with him dying easily.

[spiritcrusher77]

So Kevin, after you add Maxwell's stuff, and it gets closer to the update, can you please do us a favor, and leave us a few cryptic hints that will lead us to find either a bit.ly link, or something else, that will eventually lead to the reveal of the new character, though the actual page that has the new character has to have some thorough looking, and we will find the new character? Thanks.-Spirit

[LuckyMole]

There are really no problems with Maxwell right now, balance wise. The ability to ignore sanity, use magic items more frequently, start with good gear, and make a shadow manipulator early is balanced really well with him dying easily.

You almost made me think I said that I even scrolled to check lol!Also even in my very noobish days my number one cause to die was the hounds. Up till now I have never died to the hallucinations. So I guess I have a very different reason to ignore the sanity mechanic altogether Edited June 20, 2013 by LuckyMole