Character Rebalance Discussion thread

[Peculiar]

Perhaps if Wilson's character perks were updated after you beat the game that could fix this? Wilson would still be the base character that everyone would have to play in the beginning, but when you beat the game (or maybe do something in the caves) you unlock these new traits? It would give people a reason to return to playing Wilson after having all these new ones.

[jbeetle]

Eventually, I believe Kevin will stop trying to justify his decisions for Wilson. He's already made it pretty clear.

[Krac]

There are really no problems with Maxwell right now, balance wise. The ability to ignore sanity, use magic items more frequently, start with good gear, and make a shadow manipulator early is balanced really well with him dying easily.

I think the new perks make the older character more fun to play and explore the world. It is more interactive, and one passive don't make the character interesting to play.

[LuckyMole]

Very true Krac

[OVER9000NUKES]

Incoming Wall of Text! Subject: Maxwell.

And it is only because I don't like him at all I'll try to give some suggestions about him. And thank you Kevin for not deciding what his specialty is going to be yet. If it's in another patch even better, so there is more time to make the right choices for his abilities as he is as much important to the game as Wilson is if not even more and deserves special attention.

I've read all the suggestions in this topic and I'll say only what fits him NOT. I already said what I want him to have previously. What fits him right is up to Kevin as he should know more about him more than we all know right now(unless you forget again something Kevin ).

1. First of when I unlocked him and saw what he has it seemed to me that some of his stuff is just rushed and it's there just for the sake of something being there. Actually only the low health was what I though was fitting as he is the last character thus playing with him should not be that easy, but at least it should be interesting or fun. And... it was not. A lot of you praise the shadow sword and armor and I don't get it. Why do you? Adventure mode is passable without them. Sandbox mode is even easier. I only make them from a completionist stand point. After that they just lay around in one of the chests forgotten. And at the same time many people complain that sanity is an issue. If your rabbits turned to beardlings when you are at zero sanity it could be for some but not really. Zero sanity does not mean instant death. But panicking when it happens could kill you. I am under the impression that if it was not that "hard" to get regularly the needed amounts of fuel for the weapon and armor most of you wouldn't say that Maxwell is good as he is.

So I was standing next to Maxwell's door with Maxwell after I beat adventure mode with the "cool" shadowy tools and was like "well gee game I have a chestfull of fuel from before and didn't use it to make the sword and armor. thanks for nothing" And quit this save file and still refusing to play it. Will play when they fix Maxwell.

When you use up your shadow sword and armor Maxwell feels like a vanila character. Like old Wickerbottom was when you research everything and don't get to feel any uniqueness(other than her ingame art). You could argue that dapperness is good... or getting the Tam is hard. I don't want to sound too harsh but if you have completed adventure mode LEGITLY how can sanity be a problem for you? Without the Tam!? And what about all other things that give you sanity that are even easier to get. Dapperness is a REDUNDANT perk! Now let's say you are over your initial sanity issues. Like you play the game go dig a grave then another untill you reach zero and then you don't go to sleep in a tent or put a Tam, but continue to explore on zero for like 3-4 days and not go to your base. Why do I have the feeling that this is terrifying for many people? Sanity is just the type of stat to scare you so that you make a fatal mistake that kills you. I also love how many people are like "yes he should get a sanity penalty, he is too OP" And I am thinking - well why doesn't Kevin think up a "crazy difficult" and OP character that has 31 max sanity(I am saying 31 and not 30 because I know with that one more to the max there will be someone that would say that having 30 always is unplayable and having 31 is going to make you REALLY play smart... NOT! ), but compensates with it by being a total power house. I want that! Really do! Anyway just find one of those sanity barriers than pick your base appart and place it on the other side. It will take you several trips, but in the end there will be no fear left in you from being on zero forever!(I am not even going to finish this horror story because the hard thing came after I set the base and it wasn't the nightmare creatures)

It makes much more sense to go insane lol when you can deal with it eventually. Finishing Adventure mode suggest that you are ready for that don't you think. And Dapperness is useless to the point where I have to do more stuff to go insane.

Sorry If I am being elitist but I am making this argument only for Maxwell. You are supposed to be good after adventure.

Dark sword/armor one use equals a non existent perk. Dapperness - my eyes roll when I think about it ever being usefull to me or any experienced DS player. Only good thing about is the word Dapper

2. Another issue I see here and on other forums(not Maxwell related but annoying) fanboys will be fanboys and will accept and like eveything that their virtual master comes up with. Kevin I am looking at you. Since you are the master of this game

About that merm idea..... No No No NO NO NO NOOOOOO! Think about it. Weren't merms just one of many species that were created by Maxwell in the overworld. Why did you want to put them as M's friends? Why not something else? But that's not the point. The point is that by making them your allies you are only saving me 4 monster meat that I'd usually give to pigs, maybe. Another redundant idea. And how much meat or veg will it save you dear reader of this reduculously long post? And what if befriending merms doesn't really save you meat and you still have to give them something to follow you? What is the point? Merms are in swamps and to get to them or choose to put your base near them you have to have several beneficial conditions that you don't get very often. Lets say you could build their houses with Maxwell. If you do that, that means you have to put the pigs away from them so that they don't kill each other unless you want them to. But what is so special about them to make you prefer them over the pigs? If you argue RP or that you like them over the pigs' cute derpyness I'm gonna through the monitor haha. But seriously why? Why do I need merms? In any form? I'd like to hear some fanboys here lol. I am a fan too but that's not enough to make me accept everything that Kevin suggests without thinking it through.

3. Music box idea - i like it but at the same time it is very illogical. As an item it fits, but not for M. He hates it. And when you stop the musc and turn it back on he says something like "I guess I deserve that"

Maxwell should be stripped from everything and be done anew entirely. For me he was just the biggest disapoinT in this game. Although everything else is getting better and better, there is no denying that. Love you Kevin, don't make me jump on you for that merm idea lol JK )))

4? Also If you think I just waisted some time, BIG time writing this, you should know that my only other option was to write or phone my exgf and have even more regrets that I already do. =)

im too lazy to read it.

[Toastery]

This sounds great so far! The only think I'd like to add is that I believe that it would give balloons a chance at being marginally useful if they dealt a small amount of damage when popped.

[Orima-Kazooie]

Wait....i just realizedThat if you used More tentacles (a book) near a lightning rod if would go to the lightning rodAnd make unlimited power until you save and quit! Making wickerbottem the Cook stuff with crockpot while sitting in near the lightning rod type of character...I think this should be changed

I don't know what this is trying to communicate??

[Magix]

I agree with Kevin about that there should be a character who is the "normal" one. Not only will that make Wilson unique when all other characters have their gimmicks, but he'll be the choice of people who'd rather play as someone balanced, someone without negative effects. And it's only natural that the baseline character is the first (and also the most popular) character.So don't ask for too much just because new stuff is fun. There will still be good enough reasons to play as Wilson anyway. He is Wilson. He has no negatives. He grows a magnificent bear. A magnificent beard!

[Orima-Kazooie]

He grows a magnificent bear.

I will absolutely be satisfied if he can grow a bear

[d3v1n96]

Wait....i just realizedThat if you used More tentacles (a book) near a lightning rod if would go to the lightning rodAnd make unlimited power until you save and quit! Making wickerbottem the Cook stuff with crockpot while sitting in near the lightning rod type of character...I think this should be changed

What on earth are you trying to say?

[Magix]

I will absolutely be satisfied if he can grow a bear

It kinda looks like he grows into a bear.

[spiritcrusher77]

What on earth are you trying to say?

He meant the Lightning book, instead of the Tentacle book. Here's a rough translation:Wait....i just realized,That if you used Conflagration (a book) near a lightning rod it (The Lightning) would go to the lightning rod,And make unlimited power until you save and quit! Making Wickerbottom more of a 'Cook stuff with crockpot while sitting near the lightning rod' type of character... I think that this should be changed.That's what I read, anyway.-Spirit

[d3v1n96]

Wait....i just realizedThat if you used More tentacles (a book) near a lightning rod if would go to the lightning rodAnd make unlimited power until you save and quit! Making wickerbottem the Cook stuff with crockpot while sitting in near the lightning rod type of character...I think this should be changed

You still need to gather things for the book, and get food. So no, no it doesn't.

[Magix]

WillowPositives:Gets a sanity bonus from being near fireImpervious to fire / heat damage (this is not too useful now, but wait for lava caves...)Gets a lighter - Can light things on fire, and be used like a torch. Has infinite fuel, but a very small light radius.Negatives:Lower max sanityLights random fires when low on sanity (like the night ones currently)

I think Willow could use some more ideas. Right now the other characters will make you play the game different depending on which character you play as. But Willow is still not much more than a girl counterpart to Wilson with a lighter instead of the beard.For example, a flat reduction of max sanity is not very interesting. How about that she starts losing more sanity for each day since she last burned a tree?

[oCrapaCreeper]

I agree with Kevin about that there should be a character who is the "normal" one. Not only will that make Wilson unique when all other characters have their gimmicks, but he'll be the choice of people who'd rather play as someone balanced, someone without negative effects. And it's only natural that the baseline character is the first (and also the most popular) character.So don't ask for too much just because new stuff is fun. There will still be good enough reasons to play as Wilson anyway. He is Wilson. He has no negatives. He grows a magnificent bear. A magnificent beard!

It's understandable if Wilson is normal. But half of his perk can be achieved by other characters, and in a much faster way thanks to beardlings. As it stands, Wilson's only real perk that stands out is winter insolation for an extra 135 seconds... Something that doesn't even take affect until after the first 20 days. That's pretty redundant and dull compared to all the other characters and their new changes.I was fine with Wilson being left unchanged at the start. But after seeing how much has actually changed with the other characters, my thoughts on that aren't the same. Just about everything that can be achieved with Wilson's perk, with the exception of the beard not taking up inventory space, can be achieved with the other characters in an easier way. He doesn't stand out anymore.That's just my view on the situation right now. Edited June 20, 2013 by oCrapaCreeper

[Palpetinus]

If Wilson gets a perk, it would have to be extremely situational.It would have to be so little (or hard to get) so it doesn't confuse newbs, but it has to have enough impact to be a perk.

[MrGmview]

I haven't read the whole thread but in interacting with one of the contributors it occurred to me that many of us have different conceptions of the characters. Some people have the vision of Maxwell as a Dapper gentleman & that's his primary attribute. I've always seen his primary trait as a master manipulator who has fallen to his own machinations. The dapper is an affectation. In playing him in a world I modified that vision to a tough old s.o.b. who will do anything to get what he wants or to survive. I thought it was hilarious that he could eat cooked monster meat with virtually no penalty (I'm sure this wasn't intended) as it supported that vision. Since his changes seem minor, that's probably not important in itself. But it's an example of what we see.The Wolfgang changes make a kind of sense, but I see Wolfgang's dominant characteristic as stupidity. Phenomenal cluelessness. That's hard to translate into non-grindy penalties, don't want him failing to craft, especially a prototype. It could translate to clumsiness, especially since he's OP as a fighter, he could miss occasionally or the classic D&D "drops weapon", it would make the player think. Don't know how difficult that is in game mechanics. Or 1% self damage in chopping wood, stone or whatever. Just some thoughts.

[Hairplane]

If Wilson eats a whole lot of monster meat he should get a monster beard that helps him in combat. The monster beard would stay on him for a long time, before wearing off.

I imagined a Chuck Norris Fist coming out of Wilson's beard when I read this.

He grows a magnificent bear.

If for even a day there was a change in programming that allowed this to happen...

[MrGmview]

Just in case I haven't done enuf damage: I think Willow is more than a Pyro, also. I've had many female acquaintances mention that she's a cutey & a real doll. Crazy little girls can be that way, & crazy big girls. Again how that translates to game play is a problem. The most obvious would be some opponents breaking aggro sooner or getting it later, in terms of game mechanics that sounds iffy. 2 flowers for every one planted might be doable & with her sanity issues maybe a plus that's not OP. Not aggroing a single mob, like bees, or beefalo in heat might be an idea. Not something overwhelming but something that fleshes out her character.

[Asha Stella]

What about Maxwell ?

[oCrapaCreeper]

What about Maxwell ?

Kevin's working on the new character right now. He said he'll work on Maxwell next update if he runs out of time. He also said that Maxwell is already pretty balanced, so it's probably not a high-priority right now. Edited June 20, 2013 by oCrapaCreeper

[Mathspy]

I like the whole rebalance, it's would make the game more interesting and would make me replay all the characters to try all the different new and sweet abilities!

[SiCkness]

I'm too lazy to read all tread, so my idea may be not new: what if Wilson will be able to craft potions which have random effect? Player can give potions to any NPC or drink them by himself. Potions can reduce/increase your health, sanity, satiety. If animal drinks porion, it'll become big agressive monster or small and cute. Then, if it's small, player can put it in a jar where potion stored. This jar'll restore ypur sanity when it's in your hands. Other characters rebalanced very nice, but one more character needs rebalance - Maxwell. Max will be able to make any NPC friendly with help of his cigar. When player uses cigar he can choose any NPC to make him friendly. But when he makes someone friendly he'll lost some santy points. For example, 10 for rabbit, 20 for pig, 30 for hound.P. S. Sorry for really bad English.P. P. S. I've just seen that Kevin isn't going to rebalance Maxwell for the time being. So, I keep my idea for future and won't delete it.

Edited June 20, 2013 by SiCkness

[Asha Stella]

Kevin's working on the new character right now. He said he'll work on Maxwell next update if he runs out of time. He also said that Maxwell is already pretty balanced, so it's probably not a high-priority right now.

ok

[Cozyhut3]

If Wilson gets a perk, it would have to be extremely situational.It would have to be so little (or hard to get) so it doesn't confuse newbs, but it has to have enough impact to be a perk.

What if Wilson got a little bit (five points?) of sanity from prototyping things from any tier research lab? It would help keep noobs from going insane after the first week.