Next Shadow Maul nerf.

[cropo]

1 hour ago, arubaro said:

maybe that is the key of why you dont like crockpots... dragonpies are awful and nobody with experience use them because of the time it takes to cook them. They dont make obsolete anything, more like the opposite, they are overshadowed by most healing sources

What? It gives massive hunger and health, is incredibly cheap and easy to make, and uses the quick-eat animation. It heals you faster than a poultice does and does it at a higher rate.  Beefy Greens are initially easier to make, but it expires much faster and requires a much larger lureplant home to harvest all the pieces and they need to be babysat to be harvested before expiring, the player also does the "big meat" eating animation which makes it easy to get interrupted in combat and lose net health.

Unless there's some obscure item I'm missing, Dragonpie is the best all-around health dish in the game; part of any end-game goal even before RWYS was spamming fertilizers on a farm to get a dragonfruit and then feed it to a bird in hopes of duping it for mass production. 

 

 

1 hour ago, arubaro said:

health is a key mechanic, it shouldnt be removed by hitting with the most powerful weapon. I dont care about needing to kill a couple of bees every few days or needing to bundle it when there are not fights in a long time

But it should be removed by just stuffing your face full of dragonpies? 

Lets fight a boss, say armored bearger.

If Armored bearger hits me and I take damage, I eat a dragonpie once or twice. Poof, hp topped off.
OR
If armored bearger hits me, I dodge it's attacks to try to get some hits in and am both rewarded and punished for it by losing some sanity and getting some health back, health topped off.

These are nearly identical scenarios, only in one situation I am spamming my endless supply of dragonpies that I sat around for an hour to make, and in the other I am trying to take risks to get healing by hitting the mob more.  It's a far more engaging experience; it's really weird that you prefer the former to the point that after beating the entire pre-rifts and most of current post-rifts you would still want it to be kept the way it is.

I would understand nerfing it's damage to Brightshade sword levels at its final tier and reducing the healing to only 6 per hit but that would be as far as it should go, anything lower than that is not necessary.

[arubaro]

37 minutes ago, cropo said:

Unless there's some obscure item I'm missing

Pierogies are way better since you most ingredients come to you instead of wasting time farming and cooking since they have faster cooking time than dragonfruit.

If you like farming, using tomatoes and potatoes combo is better and you wont need to waste time cooking

I played wurt for hundreds of hours and stopped using dragonpies in the moment klei added rwys farms because i was sick of farming such overrated dish

40 minutes ago, cropo said:

But it should be removed by just stuffing your face full of dragonpies? 

Lets fight a boss, say armored bearger.

If Armored bearger hits me and I take damage, I eat a dragonpie once or twice. Poof, hp topped off.
OR
If armored bearger hits me, I dodge it's attacks to try to get some hits in and am both rewarded and punished for it by losing some sanity and getting some health back, health topped off.

These are nearly identical scenarios, only in one situation I am spamming my endless supply of dragonpies that I sat around for an hour to make, and in the other I am trying to take risks to get healing by hitting the mob more.  It's a far more engaging experience; it's really weird that you prefer the former to the point that after beating the entire pre-rifts and most of current post-rifts you would still want it to be kept the way it is.

I would understand nerfing it's damage to Brightshade sword levels at its final tier and reducing the healing to only 6 per hit but that would be as far as it should go, anything lower than that is not necessary.

Isnt the same, you are ignoring the time expend farming and cooking, the need of timing when to eat and the slot you are using for the healing item/food.

With the maul you dont need to stop, just keep hitting. It gives you like, what, 2000 healing points that never spoils at max level at the cost of just 1 kit? Compare than to needing to farm and cook 50 dragon pies...

You talk like dishes appear magically in a extra imaginary inventory slot but no, balance should take every

And what happens with characters with interesting downsides like warly and wormwood? This item is a non sense

[cropo]

20 minutes ago, arubaro said:

Pierogies are way better since you most ingredients come to you instead of wasting time farming and cooking since they have faster cooking time than dragonfruit.

If you like farming, using tomatoes and potatoes combo is better and you wont need to waste time cooking

I played wurt for hundreds of hours and stopped using dragonpies in the moment klei added rwys farms because i was sick of farming such overrated dish

Pierogis have a more complex recipie requiring meats, a Dragonpie can take nearly anything and it'll work. 3 sticks even. Pierogi also has the slow-eating animation, which makes it far worse to use in the middle of combat compared to Dragonpies. Pierogi's also have a pretty lengthly cooking time compared to something like meatballs.

Wurt kinda has less need of healing in general because she can just sic her merms on everything and can have a much larger HP pool to make more mistakes.

 

21 minutes ago, arubaro said:

snt the same, you are ignoring the time expend farming and cooking, the need of timing when to eat and the slot you are using for the healing item/food.

Because time to cook isn't that big of a deal; it's only slightly longer than all of the other options and is far cheaper on resources once you get your foot in the door. I don't think a single item slot is a big deal. It's something, but it isn't really a huge factor to seriously consider at the stage of the game you're going to be in. You go into fights with a prepared inventory, so you're going to be able to deal with an additional item slot. You'd also be ignoring that you would have to be doubling up on sanity foods to offset the large sanity loss when healing with the maul. Healing with regular dishes actually has a slight sanity benefit to it, so if we're going by your logic here there are still beneficial options to consider when it comes to healing.

 

 

28 minutes ago, arubaro said:

And what happens with characters with interesting downsides like warly and wormwood? This item is a non sense

Poultices. They're weaker than post-rift dragonpies with a bearger-bin but only marginally so. You're still at an over-abundance of them and can shrug off any damage by just clicking a button. Only instead of standing at a crock pot, you're rushing through a marsh every few days to pick up reeds.

 

30 minutes ago, arubaro said:

You talk like dishes appear magically in a extra imaginary inventory slot but no, balance should take every

Okay so if the Maul disabled a single item slot for the player, would it be okay? Like who cares if food takes a single item slot? It's a minor inconvenience at best.


And again we need to consider that the player was doing this for the entire game up to the point of getting the maul; tasks which are now menial and no longer a daring adventure on the players part, having an item that can help to alleviate that part of the grind near the end of the current game is not that big of a deal and doesn't really warrant a nerf.

[splorange]

It seems like a lot of people are on the fence about it's usefulness, if you ask me it only caters towards specific progression and specific playstyles.

If you tend to boss rush and ditch the world soon after, it's probably not your kind of item especially if you kill fuelweaver later in the run. Some players just aren't willing to stick around in a world long enough to kill another handful of bosses and that's fine.

If you're a long-term world player, getting the maul early is a huge boon and will probably see lots of value in your playthrough, there will be lots of opportunities to use it and you don't have to worry about getting it too late. With it's current tuning I think it's a very strong weapon and worth the extra effort of managing it. Unfortunately it will be getting nerfed in the upcoming patch and I have the worry that some of the existing fans of the item might ditch it and the people who already don't use it are justified to use it even less.

I would like to see it reworked a small amount: introduce a new active/passive power, reduce the healing it grants and the hunger drain. An active spell on the maul is sure to make it fun and interesting to use (a big AoE is always useful) or maybe a passive like the less sanity you have the more damage it does.

[arubaro]

6 minutes ago, splorange said:

and the people who already don't use it are justified to use it even less

I refuse to use it but i might use it if the nerf is logical 

[Ridley]

4 minutes ago, arubaro said:

I refuse to use it but i might use it if the nerf is logical 

But you have used it, right? You've gone through the process to levelling it to max to see what it is like?

[arubaro]

10 minutes ago, Ridley said:

But you have used it, right? You've gone through the process to levelling it to max to see what it is like?

Because i cant see how getting 40 damage in 4 hits is a non sense if i didnt spawn 12 deerclops? I play long term worlds, getting it isnt a problem for me because i will have plenty of time to get the benefits. Also i repeat many fights for the sake of having fun so 12 bosses are practically my winters when i cant build

[Frosty_Mentos]

I do think it really still heals too much but it is a very lategame item

[Ridley]

8 minutes ago, arubaro said:

 Because i cant see how getting 40 damage in 4 hits is a non sense if i didnt spawn 12 deerclops? I play long term worlds, getting it isnt a problem for me because i will have plenty of time to get the benefits. Also i repeat many fights for the sake of having fun so 12 bosses are practically my winters when i cant build

So you don't have any experience with the Maul? 

I thought the hungering was a real concern and the weapon breaking is so painful as to make me consider giving it up. I thought killing the 9 bosses without using hostile flares would be quick but I realized the progression is a slog. I've usually gotten all the important boss drops before opening the rifts, so the boss slaying only serves the Maul's progression. 

I'm saying its actually some work that constantly marches towards being completely undone for a weapon that eventually deals 4 more damage than the Shadow Reaper. Yes, you can heal 40 health in 4 hits. You can also heal 40 health in 1 bite of a pierogi. 

I'm also not saying the heal rate couldn't come down, but that the downsides could be sharpened a bit to perpetuate a new take on old boss fights. The Maul should probably refuse to be stuffed in a Bundling Wrap as well.

[Jakepeng99]

4 hours ago, cropo said:

But it should be removed by just stuffing your face full of dragonpies? 

Thats costs resources.

[cropo]

49 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Thats costs resources.

So does the Maul; Dragonpies aren't a rare resource you only need that first initial one and then to feed it to a bird and then you can make them by the dozen. You don't even really need to make giant crop versions of it. 

The maul however requires a direct time-investment and must be maintained or else all that progress is lost; the chance of it happening is slim but the hours of time you spent leveling it are always at risk of being lost whenever it is in use or in your inventory. It's not really a "free" item and misuse of it has bigger consequences than the Reaper and the BS sword.

[grm9]

12 minutes ago, cropo said:

the hours of time you spent leveling it

can't you just make a lot of hostile flares and kill 9 deerclopses, that'd be like an in game day at most not counting amount of time spent on getting flares, probably like 2 days with that time taken into account

[cropo]

11 minutes ago, grm9 said:

can't you just make a lot of hostile flares and kill 9 deerclopses, that'd be like an in game day at most not counting amount of time spent on getting flares, probably like 2 days with that time taken into account

Hostile flares work multiple times? I've never used those very much; yeah that definitely should be changed. it shouldn't let you kill the same boss over and over again.

[Tranoze]

15 minutes ago, grm9 said:

can't you just make a lot of hostile flares and kill 9 deerclopses, that'd be like 20 mins at most

Different from reaper that only need one wave of ink blight, maul needed possed shadow atrium. You can make 6~8 maul per ruin reset. And to get possed shadow atrium, you need shadow atrium, which require you to kill a tier 3 shadow chess piece boss. If they fix shadow chess pieces farm, legit killing from a->z, making a maul max upgrade would require:
- Full 3 shadow bosses on new moon.
- Bring shadow atrium to maze/atrium to find mimic chest (only 6~8 available per ruin reset)
- Kill mimic chest.
- Kill 1 wave of ink blight.
- Kill 9 deerclops (which will require like 14 hostile flares. 14 hostile flare resource needed alone is quite alot to farm.)
- Constantly killing more enemies or bundle/rebundle so maul wont go starve.

The healing also come with the cost of sanity, so fighting bosses with maul with the mind set of just healing from boss, you might have to fight both boss and shadow creatures that spawn along, which will increase difficulty base on bosses. Lunacy works, but not all enemies in lunacy effect land.

[dst_lover]

15 hours ago, arubaro said:

Funny enough, the BS helmet needs more nerfs than the maul

 None of them need any nerfs 

[Bumber64]

31 minutes ago, grm9 said:

can't you just make a lot of hostile flares and kill 9 deerclopses, that'd be like an in game day at most not counting amount of time spent on getting flares, probably like 2 days with that time taken into account

Where are you getting all the glommer goop? It's 1 per 2-4 days if you don't engage in glommercide + full moons (more preparation).

There's also a 40% failure rate on flares.

[dst_lover]

3 minutes ago, Bumber64 said:

Where are you getting all the glommer goop? It's 1 per 2-4 days if you don't engage in glommercide + full moons.

not that I agree with him because it will take more the a day to kill around 9 deers but in The time that u will kill the AFW and wait until a cave rift starts u will have enough glommer goop 

[Bumber64]

6 minutes ago, dst_lover said:

not that I agree with him because it will take more the a day to kill around 9 deers but in The time that u will kill the AFW and wait until a cave rift starts u will have enough glommer goop 

Assuming you didn't miss glommer the first time. I think there might also be a requirement for glommer to be loaded to produce goop.

You have to do this anytime you screw up and let the maul break. Compare with other healing options + reaper.

[Archswifter]

God forbid we finally get something interesting and strong for the shadow side of things in terms of a weapon.
I love the idea of it personally and the consequences of not maintaining it, unique in terms of what you have to do to get it and upgrade it to be a great weapon.

[dst_lover]

6 minutes ago, Bumber64 said:

Assuming you didn't miss glommer the first time. I think there might also be a requirement for glommer to be loaded to produce gopp.

This is without the mention if u play with multiple players sometimes they will use the glommer gopp to give everyone eyebrella but even in the that I don’t think u will run out of the gopp the only thing that u have to worry about if the it’s spring or summer because u will have to wait a lot to reach winter

[00petar00]

This weapon really doesn't need another nerf, If it happens there won't exist a reason to use it. 

@cropoIs completely right, healing food is easy to gather and doesn't drain your sanity. I don't agree with dragonpies as my healing food but you get enough jelly beans from BQ kill to last you until BQ respawns and it can easily be farmed with many different methods without it costing much.

This is endgame weapon that requires shadow rifts to be activated, possessed shadow atrium and other materials that aren't easy to gather but after doing all that you still need to kill 9 bosses and it still drains sanity on hit. Also lets not forget that it needs to be maintained and a mistake will lead to losing all 9 stacks at once.

The current stats seem pretty good but I haven't used it much and I don't see why anyone would want to use it at all after another nerf.

[dst_lover]

am I the only person thinking this weapon need a buff not a nerf like to me healing is not that good if u think about it it doesn’t matter because most of the time the armour will break before you die so the healing is useless without armour because most boss have some moves that can kill you like in one hit and u don’t even need that much healing just eat 1 Jellybeans before the fight and doge his attacks and u will be fine and don’t tell me u can tank with it u will just waste armour 

edit without the mention that this weapon drains even your sanity and u have to kill 11 boss and you need to do side quest just to craft it

4 minutes ago, dst_lover said:

 

[cropo]

Definitely doesn't need a buff, I saw it pre-nerf and people actually WERE facetanking bosses without armor and that's just over the top. The current amount is just fine, it'll help you but if for some reason you're getting hit by every single boss attack it isn't going to magically win the fight for you unless it's a weak boss like Deerclops.

[dst_lover]

10 minutes ago, cropo said:

Definitely doesn't need a buff, I saw it pre-nerf and people actually WERE facetanking bosses without armor and that's just over the top. The current amount is just fine, it'll help you but if for some reason you're getting hit by every single boss attack it isn't going to magically win the fight for you unless it's a weak boss like Deerclops.

How much the weapon was healing before the nerf ? 

[Anis5240]

12 minutes ago, dst_lover said:

How much the weapon was healing before the nerf ? 

at max level, it's 17 hp per hit.