Next Shadow Maul nerf.

[grm9]

22 hours ago, Ridley said:

shake up boss encounters by causing insanity more

2 hours ago, Tranoze said:

you might have to fight both boss and shadow creatures that spawn along, which will increase difficulty base on bosses

49 minutes ago, cropo said:

if for some reason you're getting hit by every single boss attack it isn't going to magically win the fight for you unless it's a weak boss like Deerclops

(tanking dfly, lavaes and nightmares and enraged dfly and nightmares at the same time with only the new axe, 1 bone armor, void cowl and repair stuff)

https://youtu.be/2OfwlPZpux0

2 hours ago, Tranoze said:

Different from reaper that only need one wave of ink blight, maul needed possed shadow atrium. You can make 6~8 maul per ruin reset. And to get possed shadow atrium, you need shadow atrium, which require you to kill a tier 3 shadow chess piece boss. If they fix shadow chess pieces farm, legit killing from a->z, making a maul max upgrade would require:
- Full 3 shadow bosses on new moon.
- Bring shadow atrium to maze/atrium to find mimic chest (only 6~8 available per ruin reset)
- Kill mimic chest.
- Kill 1 wave of ink blight.
- Kill 9 deerclops (which will require like 14 hostile flares. 14 hostile flare resource needed alone is quite alot to farm.)
- Constantly killing more enemies or bundle/rebundle so maul wont go starve.

The healing also come with the cost of sanity, so fighting bosses with maul with the mind set of just healing from boss, you might have to fight both boss and shadow creatures that spawn along, which will increase difficulty base on bosses. Lunacy works, but not all enemies in lunacy effect land

they were talking about how much time you needed to spend for getting it to max level tho, not for getting it and doing that

[Ridley]

6 minutes ago, grm9 said:

(tanking dfly, lavaes and nightmares and enraged dfly and nightmares at the same time with only the new axe, 1 bone armor, void cowl and repair stuff)

https://youtu.be/2OfwlPZpux0

hardest part was clicking on nightmares and lavaes

I did say that I would understand if the healing came down some. 

And I did say the downsides should be made sharper to perpetuate what I think would be a new take on old bosses.

Isn't the Enraged Dragonfly supposed to burn you just by being close? Are you standing at some perfect distance where that doesn't happen? That would be very silly if Enraged Dragonfly's main danger essentially doesn't exist but that is somehow the Maul's fault.

[arubaro]

4 hours ago, Ridley said:

So you don't have any experience with the Maul? 

I thought the hungering was a real concern and the weapon breaking is so painful as to make me consider giving it up. I thought killing the 9 bosses without using hostile flares would be quick but I realized the progression is a slog. I've usually gotten all the important boss drops before opening the rifts, so the boss slaying only serves the Maul's progression. 

I'm saying its actually some work that constantly marches towards being completely undone for a weapon that eventually deals 4 more damage than the Shadow Reaper. Yes, you can heal 40 health in 4 hits. You can also heal 40 health in 1 bite of a pierogi. 

I'm also not saying the heal rate couldn't come down, but that the downsides could be sharpened a bit to perpetuate a new take on old boss fights. The Maul should probably refuse to be stuffed in a Bundling Wrap as well.

Never said it takes few time, is clearly a weapon made for the players that enjoy sticking arround in a world for very long time. This item, even if was buffer to the sky, is useless for boss rush

What im discussing is how this weapon makes combat a faceroll for those who stick. If i liked it i wouldn't mind using one season to level it up, anyways i would fight that ammount of bosses anyways 

I refuse to use it because i dont like the kind of simple and careless gameplay it brings. I prefer a fun item like the scythe 

2 hours ago, dst_lover said:

 None of them need any nerfs 

Not if the player base want a casual, unbalance experience with non sense mechanics but i thought we were playing dont starve 

[grm9]

8 minutes ago, Ridley said:

Enraged Dragonfly's main danger

pretty sure that the main danger's supposed to be 150 damage per hit every 3 seconds that you can receive through an attack that hits you after you get out of it's attack start range before the start of the attack anim

8 minutes ago, Ridley said:

Are you standing at some perfect distance where that doesn't happen?

i literally walked out of own attack range and then started holding F for starting attacking dfly from as far away as possible for not taking damage from that

8 minutes ago, Ridley said:

that is somehow the Maul's fault

i could've probably tanked fire damage too with good enough nightmares RNG

[Tranoze]

8 hours ago, grm9 said:

they were talking about how much time you needed to spend for getting it to max level tho, not for getting it and doing that

before getting one to max level, you need to get one in first place.
Dont tell me you just use c_give/freecrafting to get maul.
 

8 hours ago, grm9 said:

(tanking dfly, lavaes and nightmares and enraged dfly and nightmares at the same time with only the new axe, 1 bone armor, void cowl and repair stuff)

 

Bro you fighting it on day 1, shadow only spawn on you once at a time.
And you still need to fight them in correct order, not like you press F on dfly and let lavae/shadow free hit you.

[grm9]

2 hours ago, Tranoze said:

Bro you fighting it on day 1, shadow only spawn on you once at a time

???

shadow spawns don't depend on day

2 hours ago, Tranoze said:

And you still need to fight them in correct order, not like you press F on dfly and let lavae/shadow free hit you

you just attack any thing except dfly that you can attack if it exists

2 hours ago, Tranoze said:

before getting one to max level, you need to get one in first place.
Dont tell me you just use c_give/freecrafting to get maul

they were talking about breaking it

[Tranoze]

37 minutes ago, grm9 said:

???

shadow spawns don't depend on day

It does, in the first few days of the game shadow cant spawn multiple on you. If early enough, none would even spawn on you.

This is one of the evidence on it. Even wicker read book passed sanity threshold, no shadow spawned because it was early enough.
Normally if you live long enough, each book read always spawn 1 shadow (that how you will get like 30 shadows follow you around when you wear bone helm.)
 

[arubaro]

4 hours ago, Tranoze said:

before getting one to max level, you need to get one in first place

So?

[Bumber64]

13 hours ago, grm9 said:

(tanking dfly, lavaes and nightmares and enraged dfly and nightmares at the same time with only the new axe, 1 bone armor, void cowl and repair stuff)

https://youtu.be/2OfwlPZpux0

I think bone armor's special effect is being undersold here, considering it outright cancels the 150 damage on occasion. Bone armor, void cowl, and max level maul, yet still not just holding F.

The concern that led to the original nerf was out-healing stuff while naked.

[cropo]

Plus it's Dragonfly and nightmares, enemies that have extremely long waiting times between their attacks(assuming you are smart and only T3 the Rook). Literally hard-countered by void armor, they are the most vulnerable to its effects because of their slow attack speed.

And like, Dragonfly in particular...who cares if the shadow maul can outtank her? If you can beat her on day one like it's nothing why even consider the Maul as some kind of offense to her? Like Ohhhh no man, you gonna be able to stand and tank Dfly this weapon is too badass,

[grm9]

9 hours ago, Tranoze said:

It does, in the first few days of the game shadow cant spawn multiple on you. If early enough, none would even spawn on you

no, that's because of nightmares spawner trying to proc RNG for increasing max nightmares amount every 10-15 seconds iirc, you can reset it through rejoining or going above 50% sanity and waiting for all nightmares to despawn

9 hours ago, Tranoze said:

 

This is one of the evidence on it. Even wicker read book passed sanity threshold, no shadow spawned because it was early enough

no, because the player went insane after reading the book instead of being insane right before finishing the read

6 hours ago, cropo said:

Plus it's Dragonfly and nightmares, enemies that have extremely long waiting times between their attacks(assuming you are smart and only T3 the Rook). Literally hard-countered by void armor, they are the most vulnerable to its effects because of their slow attack speed

the video was about tanking enraged dfly and terrorbeaks, not shadow pieces

6 hours ago, cropo said:

And like, Dragonfly in particular...who cares if the shadow maul can outtank her? If you can beat her on day one like it's nothing why even consider the Maul as some kind of offense to her? Like Ohhhh no man, you gonna be able to stand and tank Dfly this weapon is too badass

i don't ever see people tank enraged dfly and nightmares with out it

[cropo]

18 minutes ago, grm9 said:

lmao the video was tanking terrorbeaks along with enraged dfly, not shadow pieces, at least fast forward to the middle of the video and look for a frame

Okay I watched the video and I thought you were saying he was just tanking everything the entire time but he was killing all adds that spawned and only really took a few hits here and there, most of which were stopped by the bone armor.

This feels more like a bone armor praise and not a Maul praise; going back to my dragonpie argument earlier I could do this with the same setup, a brightshade sword and a stack of dragonpies and it wouldn't really be very different except a slightly longer kill time. It's not that big of a deal, and Dragonfly isn't really a boss I care about being face-tanked at the current end-content point of DST considering a lot of people who kill Dfly facetank it anyway.

Can this be done to armored bearger?

[Tranoze]

1 hour ago, grm9 said:

no, that's because of nightmares spawner trying to proc RNG for increasing max nightmares amount every 10-15 seconds iirc, you can reset it through rejoining or going above 50% sanity and waiting for all nightmares to despawn

Doesnt change the fact only 1 nightmare spawn on you once at a time giving you much easier nightmare rng

14 hours ago, grm9 said:

i could've probably tanked fire damage too with good enough nightmares RNG

And you still expect better nightmare rng when half of the fight you dont have to deal with any nightmare at all.

Try dodge 4 nightmare and dfly and atk to heal next time.

Using maul as main weapon your sanity will mostly be low all the time, either via sanity drain or heal convert, not day 1 c_free craft with full sanity and limited shadow creatures.

[grm9]

2 hours ago, Tranoze said:

Try dodge 4 nightmare and dfly and atk to heal next time

2 nightmares's the limit with 10% or less sanity and no other player near by, bone helm, nightmare amulet or wickerbottom book

4 nightmares can't possibly spawn in those circumstances

2 hours ago, Tranoze said:

Doesnt change the fact only 1 nightmare spawn on you once at a time giving you much easier nightmare rng

just be at 50% or more sanity and no nightmares or rejoin before starting the fight for exact same RNG even on day 99999?

2 hours ago, Tranoze said:

day 1 with full sanity and limited shadow creatures

nightmares don't depend on day and i started the fight with 0 sanity

3 hours ago, cropo said:

Can this be done to armored bearger?

no because knock back infinite stun lock, but can do that with mutated varg and deerclops

3 hours ago, cropo said:

he

that's me

3 hours ago, cropo said:

most of which were stopped by the bone armor

no? it only blocks half of the hits assuming that only dfly's attacking and no stomp, much less otherwise

3 hours ago, cropo said:

he was killing all adds that spawned and only really took a few hits here and there

no, i tanked all hits that i could, only running away from dfly stomp if needed to repair void cowl (could've just repaired it earlier or got a 2nd cowl for avoiding that) and lavae fire, did you think that i was going to just let 2 terrorbeaks attack me aling with enraged dfly? could've possibly worked if i'dn't've been getting hit stun from all attacks or the attack that they'd've done

3 hours ago, cropo said:

considering a lot of people who kill Dfly facetank it anyway

they don't do that when it's enraged and they got 2 nightmares

[Tranoze]

16 minutes ago, grm9 said:

2 nightmares's the limit with 10% or less sanity and no other player near by, bone helm, nightmare amulet or wicker ottom book

4 nightmares can't possibly spawn in those circumstances

Yes, that the point. You played alone using console to spawn best weapon in the game, bully the early boss in the game, in the most control situation in the game.
In actual playthrough cases, where people actually spend hard time grinding for maul, there would be other players, other bone helm, nightmare amulet...

Even they make the game harder for you cuz they make 4 nightmare focus you, you cant talk back because you are busy dodging 4 nightmare.
That how a real game playthrough look like, not like this.

20 minutes ago, grm9 said:

they don't do that when it's enraged and they got 2 nightmares

you only got 2 nightmares once, once! the entire fight. half of the fight nightmare not even spawn.

[Cruvimaster]

It looks like it dropped from 17 to 10 and is now at  (+ -) 3 points.

Bat Bat is 6.8

[grm9]

2 hours ago, Tranoze said:

Yes, that the point. You played alone using console to spawn best weapon in the game, bully the early boss in the game, in the most control situation in the game.
In actual playthrough cases, where people actually spend hard time grinding for maul, there would be other players, other bone helm, nightmare amulet...

Even they make the game harder for you cuz they make 4 nightmare focus you, you cant talk back because you are busy dodging 4 nightmare.
That how a real game playthrough look like, not like this

so a solo play through can't possibly exist?

[Mr Giggio]

Nerfing the Maul was necessary not only cuz it was way overtuned at the point it make fighting obsolete but now they will see that isnt a good thing pair the higher DPS weapon possible in the game that aint alarming clock  with the best healing one as well. Bat bat should be the only one with the healing factor so if u want that u put the effort to farm all the shenanigans, now u can really skip it and aim to use the Maul instead. 

The issue with it being not relevant enough if remove that perk doesnt mean healing factor per hit is the only perk possible. Allowing us to cast a hex blade spell while holding the Maul that when the mob dies u steal their HP is healthier for the game cuz not only it can have a cool animation but also the casting hex blade spell would be the factor to upgrade the maul, once the mob dies, u get their HP, the Maul upgrades. Feels full circle. Im pretty sure a couple folks said that before as long the possibility of AoE Smashes or so. EVen having 1% chance to steal item that would be a drop from the mob after dying is better design than allowing it to heal. 

[Cruvimaster]

I'm not sure which character would have a good cost-benefit ratio in using Maul.

Wanda obviously doesn't. Wigfrid has a better weapon. Maxwell is better off using Shadow Thurible + Beefalo. Wolfgang is much better off using Pierogi + Brightshade Helm + Brightshade Sword. Winona has the catapults, etc.

Maybe it's good for Wes. I don't know...

I think it's a forgettable weapon. If the goal is to recover life by fighting, go for Wigfrid and be happy.

[Mr Giggio]

3 minutes ago, Cruvimaster said:

I'm not sure which character would have a good cost-benefit ratio in using Maul.

Wanda obviously doesn't. Wigfrid has a better weapon. Maxwell is better off using Shadow Thurible + Beefalo. Wolfgang is much better off using Pierogi + Brightshade Helm + Brightshade Sword. Winona has the catapults, etc.

Maybe it's good for Wes. I don't know...

U actually just have the answer. Despite the characters u pointed, all the other ones will benefit the most using Maul instead. All of them. Im for sure using with Wicker.

[Cruvimaster]

Just now, Mr Giggio said:

U actually just have the answer. Despite the characters u pointed, all the other ones will benefit the most using Maul instead. All of them. Im for sure using with Wicker.

Recovering 3 health points late game and losing sanity instead of 60 at once is strange to me. It's a novelty in the game, so I'll wait to analyze Maul's use better.

[arubaro]

49 minutes ago, Cruvimaster said:

It looks like it dropped from 17 to 10 and is now at  (+ -) 3 points.

Bat Bat is 6.8

balanced, i still were able to kill bq while freezing during the entire fight and at 0 sanity and only wasted a couple of jelly beans, and CK while tanking the adds (i never bring pan flute cuz i only set 1 purple) and without sanity food, was able to tank/kite the adds and shadows

19 minutes ago, Cruvimaster said:

I'm not sure which character would have a good cost-benefit ratio in using Maul.

Wanda obviously doesn't. Wigfrid has a better weapon. Maxwell is better off using Shadow Thurible + Beefalo. Wolfgang is much better off using Pierogi + Brightshade Helm + Brightshade Sword. Winona has the catapults, etc.

Maybe it's good for Wes. I don't know...

I think it's a forgettable weapon. If the goal is to recover life by fighting, go for Wigfrid and be happy.

as giggio said, for the rest of the cast specially wormwood and warly

[cropo]

It actually wouldn't do good on Warly at all, he can't spam easy sanity-regen foods so he will drop sanity very quickly when abusing this item and it would be tedious to get it back. If you're fighting some pissant boss that wouldn't be a problem, but seeing as a lot of Kleis recent bosses can knock you on your feet or can interact with you through special grab attacks and the like you really don't want to be getting terrorbeaks in the middle of those fights. 


You'd generally be better off spamming honey poultices with both characters; I've never used a bat bat when playing Wormwood and think it's highly overrated. Why trade a crap load of sanity for some health when a poultice is a click away?

[Cruvimaster]

55 minutes ago, arubaro said:

balanced, i still were able to kill bq while freezing during the entire fight and at 0 sanity and only wasted a couple of jelly beans, and CK while tanking the adds (i never bring pan flute cuz i only set 1 purple) and without sanity food, was able to tank/kite the adds and shadows

Considering that I want to use shadow-side items, wouldn't it be more advantageous to use Void Crown + Shadow Reape + Jellybeans + Surf 'n' Turf (or even Pierogi)?

Note that I'm not questioning balance, but rather the fact that another combination might be much more advantageous.

For me and many people I've shared the item's new status with, Maul is just another item that doesn't generate interest in crafting. It's a waste of time for a late game concept.

But I wish good use to whoever ventures to make this item.

[arubaro]

21 minutes ago, Cruvimaster said:

Void Crown + Shadow Reape + Jellybeans + Surf 'n' Turf (or even Pierogi)

you are using more slots and more resources

 

idk, for me is working really well to save on healing food as warly. Is better than carrying a batbat, thing i didnt do as warly cuz taking a slot, while having a lot of damage

poor scythe, is kinda worthless now