[Game Update] - 599141

[00petar00]

19 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

I would imagine for the same reason resources are finite it's just less interesting that way.

So your argument against cheese/exploits is that player will use it to kill boss faster than a player that is collecting resources and preparing for a normal fight.

I make a suggestion that would solve the problem and for you it is not interesting? I don't believe that you find waiting for boss respawns fun or you wouldn't mind people using exploits to kill them before you.

Even if both players want to fight the same boss and want to use the same method and one is faster it isn't fun for the other player to wait 20 days.

Edited March 22 by 00petar00

[Mike23Ua]

1 hour ago, 00petar00 said:

If it happens that often a lot more players prefer cheesing Dragonfly and while it is unfair to the players that are gathering resources to do the fight in the intended way, you decided to play on a pub and you should know that players will use walls at DF in like 99% of cases.

This can be solved easily by making bosses respawn faster, why do we have this arbitrary 20 day waiting period? I don't think that there is a good answer for this when it would be more fun for everyone If they all get a chance to fight and kill a boss within a reasonable timeframe like 5 days or less.

I can solve this by making larvae smart enough to swim through magma ponds and/or jump over 1 height tall walls (or just smart enough to go around them)

The end result is that the walls still can be used to help with the fight (by slowing down the larvae) but it doesn’t just make them all go brain dead for a risk free fight.

In fact if you build your wall out length wise far enough, they’ll run out of time pathfinding their way around it, But again… they don’t just go completely Brain Dead the moment you build Trumps wall for him.

[Yuuko]

20 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

I can solve this by making larvae smart enough to swim through magma ponds and/or jump over 1 height tall walls (or just smart enough to go around them)

The end result is that the walls still can be used to help with the fight (by slowing down the larvae) but it doesn’t just make them all go brain dead for a risk free fight.

In fact if you build your wall out length wise far enough, they’ll run out of time pathfinding their way around it, But again… they don’t just go completely Brain Dead the moment you build Trumps wall for him.

Or, ya know, we leave it the way it is now.

The Dfly fight is fine.  With multiple people a wall isn't really needed, and even solo depending on character and preference its easy to do without BUT players should be allowed to choose how they engage the world.  If someone wants to freeze lavae with an ice staff, or pick Wolfgang for double damage to kill them as they spawn, OR BUILD A WALL, what does it matter to me?

imo the fight is great, and the wall is a perfect example of emergent gameplay done right.  At least talking about AFW and lureplant the anti-exploit people have the justification of just how completely it disables the fight.  The wall doesn't stop dfly from fighting you, or going rage mode.  People have choices, deal with it.

[Mysterious box]

1 hour ago, Yuuko said:

The walls are fine.  If people want to use them, let them.  It is a viable way to manage lavea, just like using an ice staff.  This is literally walls doing what walls are supposed to do.  Might as well complain someone uses high %def armor to tank through damage instead of dodging, or uses a beefalo for its advantages.

The fight doesn't need any work.  It is perfectly manageable without walls for those who want to do it that way too.

Your entirely missing or ignoring the point of what you responded to here. It doesn't matter how manageable you think the fight is if most groups of players opt to cheese it that reflects poorly on the fight itself.

1 hour ago, Yuuko said:

Cultural standpoint?  Please go on, what is this "cultural standpoint" ??  Just you and some friend's culture where you decide to make up your own things and hold the world to them?  Or do you actually have some basis for this argument?

Ever opened up a game informer, tips and tricks book, or spoken to anyone who has been playing games for years on or offline? Ah but I guess that's all things me and my friends made up huh? I guess big discussions about whether exploits are valid ways to play games all started with me well I guess I should be proud to have started such a new trend here in the year 2024 feel free to let everyone know I'm finally internet famous.

1 hour ago, 00petar00 said:

So your argument against cheese/exploits is that player will use it to kill boss faster than a player that is collecting resources and preparing for a normal fight.

I make a suggestion that would solve the problem and for you it is not interesting? I don't believe that you find waiting for boss respawns fun or you wouldn't mind people using exploits to kill them before you.

Even if both players want to fight the same boss and want to use the same method and one is faster it isn't fun for the other player to wait 20 days.

To be clear I said I'd imagine it would be less interesting I never said I'd be against it personally just looking at it logically. If you set respawn timers to 0 for things you tend to value them less if you don't put in effort to do so for example would you enjoy dst the same if all the resources had instant respawn times? It'd be convenient but convenience isn't always the fun way to handle things. Best example I could give is would dst have the same appeal if one sapling, grass tuff, and monkeytail could be harvested forever with no wait time? I definitely wouldn't be against being about to speed up the boss timer but the fun way to go about it would be to make a player earn it.

Edited March 22 by Mysterious box

[Mike23Ua]

1 hour ago, Yuuko said:

Or, ya know, we leave it the way it is now.

The Dfly fight is fine.  With multiple people a wall isn't really needed, and even solo depending on character and preference its easy to do without BUT players should be allowed to choose how they engage the world.  If someone wants to freeze lavae with an ice staff, or pick Wolfgang for double damage to kill them as they spawn, OR BUILD A WALL, what does it matter to me?

imo the fight is great, and the wall is a perfect example of emergent gameplay done right.  At least talking about AFW and lureplant the anti-exploit people have the justification of just how completely it disables the fight.  The wall doesn't stop dfly from fighting you, or going rage mode.  People have choices, deal with it.

See the thing you have to ask yourself is: “IS the Wall method a valid strategy?”

If it was.. then why are Flaming Larvae spawned out of a Lava Pond too dumb to know how to swim through the pond to reach you?

Better yet, why do they stick around just clinging to your wall idle not doing anything until they burn out instead of at the very LEAST being smart enough to return to their lava ponds to restore themselves and prevent just standing around till they extinguish & die?

Then there’s the big question, If Dragonfly’s Magma Ponds we’re more spread out (roughly along the edges of the combat arena) and you built your pretty little wall….

What you gonna do when Dragonfly flies over to the side of the wall you’re on, and spawns the larvae up on THAT side?

The wall you were using then just became your own undoing. LoL.

And since Klei has made it clear they plan to revisit old boss fights, now is as good a time as any to suggest ways to rework the Dfly fight/arena.

[devrimpekin]

On 3/20/2024 at 10:41 PM, ZeRoboButler said:

but I guess if people struggle with fuelweaver they will probably struggle with celestial champion.

Except they dont. CC is much more fun and fair than fw will ever be. FW boss fight is just a bad game design.and boring too. Oh wow gece i have to use Different items. Wow so unique. While also doing micromanagement with controller. Gee so much fun.

 

 

 

You see where i am getting at? İ'd rather learn a pattern than do micromanagement. Thats New boss desings superior. Excep crab king. Guess they were stuck on crap boss design phase when making that boss. At least its cheesable

[Yuuko]

15 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

Your entirely missing or ignoring the point of what you responded to here. It doesn't matter how manageable you think the fight is if most groups of players opt to cheese it that reflects poorly on the fight itself.

ikr?  I typically see players using ham bats and dark swords instead of spears too!  How dare they opt for the easier option... /s

fwiw - anyone I've seen actually go through the dfly fight without walls has rarely looked back without reason.  Walls are great if you're a 1x damage user who doesn't want to deal with ice staves.  Just set up a wall and fight through it.  If you're >1x damage OR have a group, its so much faster to just rush her and the lavae then to bother with setting up walls.  Even non-healing characters like Warly and Wormwood have an easy time in the fight since Dfly is single target and the lavae can all get killed before they attack a second time.

The reason most ppl use the wall is because the fight is intimidating and they haven't seen it done another way - but why judge that?  Why FORCE them to play a different way just b/c you don't like it?  I don't like people tanking through fights with marble armor, doesn't mean I want marble armor removed from the game lol.  This is walls doing what walls are supposed to do, get over it.

15 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

Ever opened up a game informer, tips and tricks book, or spoken to anyone who has been playing games for years on or offline? Ah but I guess that's all things me and my friends made up huh? I guess big discussions about whether exploits are valid ways to play games all started with me well I guess I should be proud to have started such a new trend here in the year 2024 feel free to let everyone know I'm finally internet famous.

Well, I'm over 40 years old and have played games offline since I was about 5, and online since online existed.  I've always been active in gaming communities to see what accomplishments have been made, new strategies uncovered, including meta and counter-meta strats.  So yeah, I could confidently say I've spoken to a LOT of people about a lot of games.  Online, offline, competitive, co-operative, single player, pretty much everything.  This is exactly why my opinion is the way it is.

Fairness between players is typically the primary concern for any cheat / glitch / exploit regardless of the game.

For most people if you're playing a single player game no one is going to care if you cheat.  If you go to show off what you've done people will likely consider the skill required to perform the task in addition to the outcome.  For single player games the idea that "if you don't like it, and don't have to do it, it isn't a problem" is a very real sentiment.  You do not have to play an OP character, or fight with optimal weapons etc because you are the only one you have to answer to.

Competitive games are going to care quite a bit BUT there are still nuances to it.  Cheating in competitive games varies a lot, and depends largely on how active the developer is in enforcing strict interactions and what their responses to the exploitive behavior is.  If a bug is accessible to all parties, stable, and doesn't degrade competitive game play it is often embraced by the players whether the game devs decide to patch it later or not.  If it does degrades game play and the devs don't fix it, then the game gets shelved or is just considered an anything goes environment.

For multiplayer co-operative games fairness between players is still the concern.  If an exploit is stable, and fair to all parties then people are going to be for it.

So if you're playing DST you largely would just take this up with the people you're gaming with.  I don't think many pub servers make it to AFW, and if they do the person who makes it there first is likely to beat it and take the loot regardless of the method they employ - so I don't think there is much of a fairness issue between players here.

I think the reason some people are such haters on this topic is because they FEEL unfairness in that they have worked hard to fight through a boss manually, and spite those who took an easier route.  That was kinda the whole point of the UncompMod trash.  They saw strategies they didn't like, and made a whole mod just to spite people who played in a way they didn't like.  How DARE someone put a firepit down next to them while tanking Deerclops so they don't freeze!  Oh the horror of bug exploitation (except its not a bug.)

And really tbh exploitation is the name of the game.  DST's theme is emergent game play.  The point of emergent play is that you aren't contained to a strict set of rules, and unintuitive interactions are a core element of the game play.  What is "intended" by the devs of a game focusing on emergent game play is actually kinda moot b/c the point of emergent game play is that the devs aren't intending any specific strategy or tactic - which makes sense when you look at the OG bosses Dfly and Bqueen.  Obviously Klei is turning a corner here and deciding DST is more about extremely strict interactions, and tbh I blame UncompMod ppl for it.  Their horrible design decisions have now pushed Klei in the wrong direction here and I have no problems speaking against it.  No I don't own Klei, and don't think they need to appease me, but as a player for many years I have a right to share the reasons I love this game.  If the game no longer holds the reasons I love it, then I move on.  Its already been a bit since I stopped automatically buying all newly released skin sets b/c the direction the game is taking is not looking good.  The amount of time I spend on the game is decreasing as the Rift content is a massive, monotonous DRAG with all of its scripted fights and forced interactions.  If I wanted to play Dark Souls, that's where I'd be.

 

14 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

See the thing you have to ask yourself is: “IS the Wall method a valid strategy?”

If it was.. then why are Flaming Larvae spawned out of a Lava Pond too dumb to know how to swim through the pond to reach you?

Better yet, why do they stick around just clinging to your wall idle not doing anything until they burn out instead of at the very LEAST being smart enough to return to their lava ponds to restore themselves and prevent just standing around till they extinguish & die?

Then there’s the big question, If Dragonfly’s Magma Ponds we’re more spread out (roughly along the edges of the combat arena) and you built your pretty little wall….

What you gonna do when Dragonfly flies over to the side of the wall you’re on, and spawns the larvae up on THAT side?

The wall you were using then just became your own undoing. LoL.

And since Klei has made it clear they plan to revisit old boss fights, now is as good a time as any to suggest ways to rework the Dfly fight/arena.

Yes.  Glad we could clear that up.

Sry, what did you THINK walls were supposed to do?

We've been around this toilet bowl before.  Using the lava pond is only a matter of convenience, we could wall up around each pond for the same result.

Further - why bother with it so much?  Maxwell can pin Dfly in place for the entire fight preventing any lavae spawns AND rage mode...

Also Maxwell can pin AFW in place doing all of the things the lureplant did.

If Klei is adding this OP stuff to the game, why bother with some minor exploits?

Edited March 22 by Yuuko

[cropo]

3 minutes ago, Yuuko said:

For most people if you're playing a single player game no one is going to care if you cheat.

It's like they don't remember how hype glitches were back then. Remember Missingno from Pokemon? It was a defining moment of that games legacy, and everyone loved it and the rumors that it could be turned into a Mew. We all loved walking around as Fierce Diety Link without having to be in a boss fight in Majora's mask. Everyone loved the enchant loop glitch in Skyrim. Street Fighters combo system came about due to a glitch. Hell, Grand Theft Auto came into existence because the developers found a glitch with Police aggro that actually made the game far more fun than it originally was when it was going to be called Race and Chase.

"culturally" people have loved exploits and glitches, at least the groups I've associated with throughout my life. They would likely view such a take on lureplanting as unreasonable and incredibly petty.  There are entire hour-long segments explaining complex glitches in Ocarina of Time that have millions of views because they're interesting. Is Ocarina of time not a masterpiece, because players who have intense knowledge of hex values know how to initiate a wrong-warp?

[LitulLola]

On 3/19/2024 at 5:02 PM, V2C said:

Lureplants can now be trampled by creatures that can trample through obstacles and structures.

Why? This has been apart of this game forever and has soooo many strats behind it, why is it being changed now? This is straight up confusing and unnecessary imo. "Insert sad face"

[Yuuko]

42 minutes ago, LitulLola said:

Why? This has been apart of this game forever and has soooo many strats behind it, why is it being changed now? This is straight up confusing and unnecessary imo. "Insert sad face"

Its a long thread so you might miss it, but they did mention that they will actually only allow rift content to trample lureplants.  Using them for bearger moonstone farms etc will remain.

... for now.

They also added that spider dens will get trampled.  Kinda a mixed bag...  I guess Deerclops is gonna help me clear all my tier 3 spider dens much quicker now lol

Edited March 22 by Yuuko

[LitulLola]

2 minutes ago, Yuuko said:

Its a long thread so you might miss it, but they did mention that they will actually only allow rift content to trample lureplants.  Using them for bearger moonstorm farms etc will remain.

... for now.

They also added that spider dens will get trampled.  Kinda a mixed bag...  I guess Deerclops is gonna help me clear all my tier 3 spider dens much quicker now lol

Thank you, I was so confused. I don't always read all the comments since I'm usually really late to get to these posts. I appreciate it! It does seem weird that tier 3 dens would changed as well tho

[grm9]

7 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

I don't get what you didn't understand my point is who would abigial having infinite hp harm noone but there are many people who wouldn't like it just like they wouldn't like it if hp, sanity, and hunger were infinite via exploits. The main point is these sorts of things bother people even if it isn't specifically harmful many people just don't like bugs or exploits that doesn't make them spiteful nor do they hate fun wether you accept that or not is up to you

it'd harm people that would want to fight using abigail the way they previously did because they'd need to calculate her hp on their own and unsummon her whenever she's supposed to die but you need to cheese a boss using lureplants on your own and can still do the fight without them without any additional effort required added by cheese's existence since you can't accidentally cheese, you can't really "just not like" or "just be bothered by" something, you're either not explaining the reason or it doesn't exist

[Mysterious box]

11 hours ago, Yuuko said:

ikr?  I typically see players using ham bats and dark swords instead of spears too!  How dare they ops for the easier option... /s

This is just being blatantly ignorant.

11 hours ago, Yuuko said:

without walls has rarely looked back without reason.  Walls are great if you're a 1x damage user who doesn't want to deal with ice staves.  Just set up a wall and fight through it.  If you're >1x damage OR have a group, its so much faster to just rush her and the lavae then to bother with setting up walls.  Even non-healing characters like Warly and Wormwood have an easy time in the fight since Dfly is single target and the lavae can all get killed before they attack a second time.

The reason most ppl use the wall is because the fight is intimidating and they haven't seen it done another way - but why judge that?  Why FORCE them to play a different way just b/c you don't like it?  I don't like people tanking through fights with marble armor, doesn't mean I want marble armor removed from the game lol.  This is walls doing what walls are supposed to do, get over it.

Except I'm not forcing them to play differently I'm saying the fight should be changed so that it's less intimidating if that's the primary reason people are avoiding it who are you to decide that the fight doesn't need to touch up to make it more accessible? Why should less skilled and brand new players need to learn how to exploit the ai so they can have a fighting chance? Is this a mah nostalgia thing or something?

11 hours ago, Yuuko said:

For most people if you're playing a single player game no one is going to care if you cheat.  If you go to show off what you've done people will likely consider the skill required to perform the task in addition to the outcome.  For single player games the idea that "if you don't like it, and don't have to do it, it isn't a problem" is a very real sentiment.  You do not have to play an OP character, or fight with optimal weapons etc because you are the only one you have to answer to.

This varies from community to community to the point saying most I feel is inaccurate some communities care more than others.

11 hours ago, Yuuko said:

For most people if you're playing a single player game no one is going to care if you cheat.  If you go to show off what you've done people will likely consider the skill required to perform the task in addition to the outcome.

This is also up for debate as there are plenty who question this sort of thing without that consideration of skill. It's why there are runs dedicated to not using obvious exploits it's just a matter of preference though.

11 hours ago, Yuuko said:

think the reason some people are such haters on this topic is because they FEEL unfairness in that they have worked hard to fight through a boss manually, and spite those who took an easier route.  That was kinda the whole point of the UncompMod trash.  They saw strategies they didn't like, and made a whole mod just to spite people who played in a way they didn't like.  How DARE someone put a firepit down next to them while tanking Deerclops so they don't freeze!  Oh the horror of bug exploitation (except its not a bug.)

I wonder if we'll ever go one debate without someone mentioning uncompromising challenge impossible probably. That being said I'm sure some people do feel it's unfair but where I stand on the topic is that we should be encouraging natural solutions to what lead to people wanting to cheese these bosses. Like I get it you guys love your exploits but why shouldn't the bosses get quality of life updates that allow less skilled to participate without researching how to exploit the ai? Why not introduce ways to make things feel less grind?

 

6 hours ago, grm9 said:

it'd harm people that would want to fight using abigail the way they previously did because they'd need to calculate her hp on their own and unsummon her whenever she's supposed to die but you need to cheese a boss using lureplants on your own and can still do the fight without them without any additional effort required added by cheese's existence since you can't accidentally cheese, you can't really "just not like" or "just be bothered by" something, you're either not explaining the reason or it doesn't exist

So your just going to ignore the point huh? I could just give you another example if you want that isn't tied to hp if you want.

Edited March 22 by Mysterious box

[grm9]

12 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

So your just going to ignore the point huh? I could just give you another example if you want that isn't tied to hp if you want

what's the point? 

12 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

why shouldn't the bosses get quality of life updates that allow less skilled to participate without researching how to exploit the ai? Why not introduce ways to make things feel less grind?

because making a boss too easy will make it boring and idk how is grind related to that, considering you just need to figure out a strat in case of most bosses, FW is an exception pretty much

Edited March 22 by grm9

[Mysterious box]

19 minutes ago, grm9 said:

because making a boss too easy will make it boring and idk how is grind related to that, considering you just need to figure out a strat in case of most bosses, FW is an exception pretty much

If most players are bypassing it I imagine a new approach is in order and as for it getting too easy that's why we should give feedback so that doesn't happen let's at least have a some faith.

22 minutes ago, grm9 said:

what's the point? 

To summarize different things bother different people some would bothered by ai exploits others would be bothered by infinite hp or resource exploits saying one person's problems are less important than the other's or that there is something wrong with the people who feel differently is just inconsiderate and rude simply as that.

[grm9]

17 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

If most players are bypassing it I imagine a new approach is in order and as for it getting too easy that's why we should give feedback so that doesn't happen let's at least have a some faith

i doubt that most people do that, i still see people fight FW properly often, even if with weather pain/brightshade staff

18 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

To summarize different things bother different people some would bothered by ai exploits others would be bothered by infinite hp or resource exploits saying one person's problems are less important than the other's or that there is something wrong with the people who feel differently is just inconsiderate and rude simply as that

being bothered by things that people do and that don't directly affect you is mostly your problem tbh, i can't imagine how you'd cope with that in terms of irl stuff e.g. smoking or anything you don't like people doing considering there are millions of people doing that and you can't do anything to make even half of them stop doing that, infinite hp would be problematic because everyone who would want to play the way they did previously would need to count all changes to hp and go to touchstones to revive etc. on their own to simulate how it was while you could not even know that lureplants cheese exists and kill a boss without it 

[LitulLola]

Look there are 2 diff groups that the majority of the current player base fits in (Major generalization) 1 option forces an entire section of the player base to play how the other thinks the game should be played while also potentially blocking them from progressing in the game. The other allows both groups to play the game however they want/decide to play it at any point within the game. The best option for both seems pretty easy to identify. 

[Mike23Ua]

1 minute ago, LitulLola said:

Look there are 2 diff groups that the majority of the current player base fits in (Major generalization) 1 option forces an entire section of the player base to play how the other thinks the game should be played while also potentially blocking them from progressing in the game. The other allows both groups to play the game however they want/decide to play it at any point within the game. The best option for both seems pretty easy to identify. 

Why do you think the game has so many world Gen toggles and various gameplay settings?

Because it allows me to force people to play the way I want them to play.. And to also maybe force myself not to play the game in a certain way that I can’t break the habit of simply NOT doing.

For example: If Klei was to add an optional setting today to disable the ability to craft a Thermal Stone, then I would have to actually rely on seasonal clothing and items to make it through the games seasons. And if I Ahem “Avoid” Summer Season by ducking down into Caves, I can now Disable the caves from even spawning at all.

In short: It FORCES you to play the game in a Certain way (much like being able to ban various RogueLite/like blessings that you feel are OP so you can’t encounter them in future playthroughs)

A simple change such as removing the players ability to craft a shovel would mean that they would need to find another way to dig up resources (such as Woodies beaver tail slam)

My point is that- DST is a game where it literally gives the host the option to choose how anyone who is joining their game, can play the game….

Its literally the very reason why people who play Minecraft, can disable the ability for players who join their worlds to be able to build anything until they give them permissions to be able to do so (because could you imagine creating a cool platform jumping map you wanted your friends to test out and instead they just built stuff across all the gaps you created?!)

Like it or not: Yes people have, and will continue to have the ability to force YOU to play the way that they Want You to play.

If Klei was to add a world Gen setting tommorow where no structures can be built within Dragonfly’s arena- Then I just forced 68% of these forums to find another method besides building a wall to fight Dragonfly.

Just like if I want to disable players abilities to do silly idle “Taunts” in Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles Shredders Revenge to build up and then spam special moves to mow through the game, I can disable the ability to “Taunt” through the games option settings.

I will say this until Klei takes the message directly to heart, or I get banned off these forums.

”In a game full of options, We really do need more options.”

[The Starver]

47 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

”In a game full of options, We really do need more options.”

Yes, please. I don't care what anyone else says, this is true, and I will support this the same way.

[Yuuko]

2 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

This is just being blatantly ignorant.

So is pretending building a wall is a problem for dfly.

The fight is fine, the wall is fine, its an option.  Its literally on par with crafting ice staff to freeze larvae.  We don't need to persuade players to play without the wall.  Of all of the cheese in the game that completely disables the boss fight 100%, this wall is not a concern as you still actually fight dfly, deal with rage mode, etc.  Just drop the wall complaints, they are blatantly ignorant, hence my response purposefully being ignorant in reply.

2 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

This varies from community to community to the point saying most I feel is inaccurate some communities care more than others.

This is also up for debate as there are plenty who question this sort of thing without that consideration of skill. It's why there are runs dedicated to not using obvious exploits it's just a matter of preference though.

Nah, at most it is small sections of some communities who spite people for their fun.  Most people are going to judge it based on the skill displayed.

Largely I think your opinion here is mistakenly conflating actual cheating (code manipulation, mod / hack, etc) with exploits built into the game.

The reason UncompMod comes up again and again is because it had a very clear anti-creativity, anti-player design philosophy - and Klei is edging closer and closer to this philosophy every patch now.

UncompMod very specifically targeted strategies its developers didn't respect.  This is an important deviation in design as DST is about emergent game play, a design philosophy rooted around giving players open ended problems and allowing them to creatively solve it *however* they might.  Recognizing that Deerclops doesn't destroy structures when given a target to attack, and that the firepit can heat you enough to counter his 2-hit freeze combo is emergent game play in action rewarding the player for their discovery with the ability to tank and trade through the fight.  To spite this tactic UncompMod ppl specifically undid this interaction defying emergent gameplay, warping the game to enforce a more strict fight.

Squashing interactions like klaus sack, lureplants, etc are right in line with this.  The creativity and joy of the world are being drained away for some dumb Dark Souls combat fantasy that DST can never satisfy.  Now instead of an enjoyable end game where I'm free to explore the world and its interactions, I'm being flooded with BS plants, lunar hail, portals tearing up resources and making the landscape look disgusting and unnatural.  Its not uncomp mods fault, but it IS the fault of players and designers who can't wrap their heads around other people doing something differently.

Klei needs to go back to designing bosses without a specific "this is how you beat it" and quit making every problem have a purposeful in-game solution.  "We're adding acid rain, and an umbrella that stops acid rain" etc.

[Fufuji]

In Stardew Valley players using name exploits to acquire items illegally, ConcernedApe:

 

In Terraria players using slope block exploits for quick move/buildings, Leinfors:

Could have fixed this if years ago, maybe in a reasonable time. But didn't, due to this leading to impact on all devices based on it.

In DST players using exploits to avoid boring battles, Klei Entertainment:

Lureplants and Spider Dens can now be trampled by creatures that can trample through obstacles and structures.

[Well-met]

1 minute ago, Fufuji said:

In Stardew Valley players using name exploits to acquire items illegally, ConcernedApe:

 

In Terraria players using slope block exploits for quick move/buildings, Leinfors:

Could have fixed this if years ago, maybe in a reasonable time. But didn't, due to this leading to impact on all devices based on it.

In DST players using exploits to avoid boring battles, Klei Entertainment:

Lureplants and Spider Dens can now be trampled by creatures that can trample through obstacles and structures.

if you don't want to slay bosses normally then you dont deserve their drops.

Seems logical and straight-forward.

[Fufuji]

2 minutes ago, Well-met said:

if you don't want to slay bosses normally then you dont deserve their drops.

Seems logical and straight-forward.

if boss' combat is horribly designed then it doesn't deserve to be slain normally.

seems not straight-forward but logical.

[Yuuko]

Just now, Fufuji said:

if boss' combat is horribly designed then it doesn't deserve to be slain normally.

seems not straight-forward but logical.

Not just that, but if your goal is to repeat a boss fight many times it makes sense to utilize the methods that make it most repeatable at the lowest cost.

This is why things like hambat, dreadstone, and repair kits from rift equipment are so good.  They reduce the cost of tasks.  Putting down cobblestones around BBqueen, same thing.

[-Variant]

3 minutes ago, Fufuji said:

if boss' combat is horribly designed then it doesn't deserve to be slain normally.

In a follow up comment one of the Devs did say they'd look into touching these bosses up!

I'll gladly take the fights being more bearable in exchange of the exploits, especially if it means they're more fun to encounter!