[Game Update] - 599141

[EatenCheetos]

14 minutes ago, grm9 said:

why do you want people to stop playing because of being forced to do boring stuff? why do you want to force others to do boring stuff? why do you want to change how others play? how would that be good for the game, considering less people playing it is bad?

Your attempts to reframe this won’t work. Keep coping

[grm9]

30 minutes ago, EatenCheetos said:

Your attempts to reframe this won’t work

maybe answer the questions instead? how does people using cheese hurt you?

30 minutes ago, EatenCheetos said:

Keep coping

what is that even supposed to mean

Edited April 4 by grm9

[Guille6785]

1 hour ago, EatenCheetos said:

If you’re not willing to do the preparation for a bossfight, you shouldn’t just have the victory handed to you.

why not

[Gashzer]

1 hour ago, grm9 said:

maybe answer the questions instead? how does people using cheese hurt you?

Cheese is a band aid fix for larger issues thats how they indirectly hurt us, klei patching cheeses/exploits/bugs is the beginning of them addressing the larger issue.

So fair play to Klei for fixing lureplants/spider dens exploits.

Now they are addressing controller problems with possible ancient fuelweaver tweaks coming in the future (i.e the larger issues)

Klei could you also patch voidwalking? Thanks lads!

Edited April 4 by Gashzer

[grm9]

4 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Cheese is a band aid fix for larger issues thats how they indirectly hurt us, klei patching cheeses/exploits/bugs is the beginning of them addressing the larger issue

removing lureplants cheese was entirely unrelated to them changing how lazy explorer on controller works and they could've done that without removing lureplants cheese, also, there are cheeses even for good and fun bosses like FW and i still wouldn't want those to get removed because some people don't like those fights anyway, similarly to how imo werepig is the most boring boss in the game that got added after RoG

[Gashzer]

2 hours ago, grm9 said:

removing lureplants cheese was entirely unrelated to them changing how lazy explorer on controller works

Completely related. Klei patched lureplants for scrappy werepig. But they didnt realise how many people depend on that cheese for ancient fuelweaver, now they do!

The more cheeses they fix, the more outrage will happen, which will provide them with the most accurate feedback on how players are actually playing DST and what they need to address. Klei needs to employ greater root cause analysis techniques which fixing bugs will help them with.

Console players were affected the worse because using items like the lazy explorer and weatherpains plus weapon switching are just not as easy to do as on pc. These things are all important for AFW. Syncing up how DST plays on pc with how DST plays on consoles is very important.

Edited April 4 by Gashzer

[grm9]

1 minute ago, Gashzer said:

Klei patched lureplants for scrappy werepig

they didn't need to do that either

1 minute ago, Gashzer said:

The more cheeses they fix, the more outrage will happen, which will provide them with the most accurate feedback on how players are actually playing DST and what they need to address

i don't want bosses to get dumbed down because of people wanting them to be as easy and simple as werepig but being forced to fight them anyway because someone's being petty 

2 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Console players were affected the worse because using items like the lazy explorer and weatherpains plus weapon switching are just not as easy to do as on pc. These things all all important for AFW

they aren't required for killing FW, no weather pains FW isn't as hard as it seems and lazy explorer still sucks because FW can get deaggroed and walk into woven shadows

4 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Syncing up how DST plays on pc with how DST plays on consoles is very important

it isn't and it's not going to happen because the game was designed around being able to interact with any object you want to interact with even if there's a hundred of them on the screen which is possible when using mouse but not when using controller unless they'd add a cursor for controller, best thing they can do is adding keyboard support to consoles 

[Well-met]

i hope the forums can auto correct the word "cheese" to "exploit" from now on. would make these debates alot less ridiculous

[grm9]

8 minutes ago, Well-met said:

i hope the forums can auto correct the word "cheese" to "exploit" from now on. would make these debates alot less ridiculous

wouldn't change anything at all though

Edited April 4 by grm9

[Gashzer]

2 minutes ago, grm9 said:

they didn't need to do that either 

Bosses should be difficult the first time you fight them. But easy to repeat if you have mastered them rendering the need for cheeses/exploits/bugs null and void.

Example: Nightmare werepig is a really hard fight if you go in blind. But easy enough once mastered, exactly the way all bosses should be!

11 minutes ago, grm9 said:

i don't want bosses to get dumbed down because of people wanting them to be as easy and simple as werepig but being forced to fight them anyway because someone's being petty 

I dont want bosses to appeal to elite pro players over casual to intermediate players. Right now ancient fuelweaver is hard even for pretty decent DST players on pc and very hard on console. Elite pro players are a bad demographic to appeal to cause they make up a tiny percentage of the total playerbase.

1 hour ago, grm9 said:

they aren't required for killing FW, no weather pains FW isn't as hard as it seems and lazy explorer still sucks because FW can get deaggroed and walk into woven shadows

On console it is. And thats the problem. Pc and console are very different.

1 hour ago, grm9 said:

it isn't and it's not going to happen because the game was designed around being able to interact with any object you want to interact with even if there's a hundred of them on the screen which is possible when using mouse but not when using controller unless they'd add a cursor for controller, best thing they can do is adding keyboard support to consoles 

Good thing Klei has been redesigning DST for over 8 years now, nothing is set in stone. Hopefully they will keep goin for another couple years atleast.

[grm9]

55 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Nightmare werepig is a really hard fight if you go in blind

it isn't, once you realise that you need to walk to the side to dodge it becomes free, just a gimmick fight that only works because most other enemies didn't have directional attacks until recently 

55 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Bosses should be difficult the first time you fight them. But easy to repeat if you have mastered them rendering the need for cheeses/exploits/bugs null and void

people might still not like fighting a boss, e.g. some people don't like fighting FW even though imo he's the best boss in the game and some bosses are simply really boring and i wish there would've been some afk way to kill them, could've at least spent a few minutes doing something other than walking to the side thrice and holding F after that

55 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

I dont want bosses to appeal to elite pro players over casual to intermediate players. Right now ancient fuelweaver is hard even for pretty decent DST players on pc and very hard on console. Elite pro players are a bad demographic to appeal to cause they make up a tiny percentage of the total playerbase

that's entirely unrelated to how good people are at the game, most people don't even try finding strats that don't require inventory management after realising that they don't like it, you also don't have statistics for how many people like FW and most people on the forums came either to share something, get solutions for modding related problems or to ask the devs to change something that they don't like about the game, so it makes sense that most people on the forums wouldn't like things that are in the game for a while and idk how you'd get proper data about every player's opinion about FW unless there'd literally be a popup about "how'd you rate this fight" in game, final boss being hard makes sense and is a good thing, the game being easy makes it boring

55 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

On console it is

why? don't you still get an option to attack the closest enemy to you to kill woven shadows? you don't need to let them get close enough to FW for auto attack to target FW on PC either

55 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Good thing Klei has been redesigning DST for over 8 years now, nothing is set in stone. Hopefully they will keep goin for another couple years atleast

they're unlikely to change that because i don't know any games that heavily rely on using cursor that are as comfortable to play using a controller as they are using keyboard and mouse and if they'll try to change that, they should change console controls, not make the game easier because of bad controls on console because then it'll become too easy on PC and still feel clunky and unenjoyable on console because you'd be doing easy stuff and still being unable to do it as efficiently as you could've on PC because of bad controls limiting how quickly you can swap items, go through crafting menu etc. 

Edited April 4 by grm9

[Well-met]

2 hours ago, grm9 said:

the game being easy makes it boring

agreed so why do you condone exploits?

[EatenCheetos]

1 hour ago, Well-met said:

agreed so why do you condone exploits?

At this point grm9 is just trolling

[grm9]

12 hours ago, Well-met said:

agreed so why do you condone exploits?

because some people don't like some parts of the game regardless and want to skip them and there's no reason to not let them do that and some things depend on RNG instead of skill and are boring and it's faster to skip them to get to the fun part faster

Edited April 5 by grm9

[Captain_Rage]

22 minutes ago, grm9 said:

because some people don't like some parts of the game regardless and want to skip them and there's no reason to not let them do that

Said people have access to world settings / mods / console commands if they want to tweak the game to their liking if their preferences differ too much from the developers vision of the game (like removing exploits that undermine the challenge of fighting bosses).

[grm9]

14 minutes ago, Captain_Rage said:

Said people have access to world settings / mods / console commands if they want to tweak the game to their liking if their preferences differ too much from the developers vision of the game (like removing exploits that undermine the challenge of fighting bosses)

they don't if they're playing on someone else's server and asking every server's owner to allow you to skip a part of the game that you don't like e.g. getting to atrium or fighting twins would be awkward

[Pet Rock]

4 hours ago, grm9 said:

asking every server's owner to allow you to skip a part of the game that you don't like e.g. getting to atrium or fighting twins would be awkward

It would be awkward because server owners often do not approve of you completely undermining the progression of the server. This sort of thing SHOULD require the server owners approval.

[EatenCheetos]

5 hours ago, grm9 said:

they don't if they're playing on someone else's server and asking every server's owner to allow you to skip a part of the game that you don't like e.g. getting to atrium or fighting twins would be awkward

You shouldn’t be going onto other’s servers and deliberately cheating in the first place

40 minutes ago, Pet Rock said:

It would be awkward because server owners often do not approve of you completely undermining the progression of the server. This sort of thing SHOULD require the server owners approval.

Fr this guy keeps making arguments against his own position 

[grm9]

47 minutes ago, Pet Rock said:

It would be awkward because server owners often do not approve of you completely undermining the progression of the server

cheeseless ways to kill bosses are usually faster, especially in case of lureplants since they require waiting for spring, and how does it matter for you that someone voidwalked instead of getting lucky and finding atrium tentapillar 1st try? why can't people just ban using those glitches on their servers if they don't like people using them? that's much less hassle considering there are most likely less people that think that voidwalking somehow ruins others' experience in comparison to amount of people that are fine with others using it. If someone using lureplants cheese bothers you, either ask them not to or do FW 1st yourself before lureplants spawn, and if you can't and they don't agree, then that's how communication is, torch shouldn't get removed because someone doesn't agree with not burning your base

14 minutes ago, EatenCheetos said:

You shouldn’t be going onto other’s servers and deliberately cheating in the first place

the game isn't competitive, how does that matter for anyone, especially considering that cheeseless ways to kill bosses are usually faster?

15 minutes ago, EatenCheetos said:

Fr this guy keeps making arguments against his own position 

how does that make what i said make less sense?

[EatenCheetos]

Omg you’re still going

[Pet Rock]

42 minutes ago, grm9 said:

cheeseless ways to kill bosses are usually faster, especially in case of lureplants since they require waiting for spring

Then use them? The point is that for a legitimate fuel weaver fight, more preparation that is tied to progression is required.

47 minutes ago, grm9 said:

If someone using lureplants cheese bothers you, either ask them not to or do FW 1st yourself before lureplants spawn, and if you can't and they don't agree, then that's how communication is, torch shouldn't get removed because someone doesn't agree with not burning your base

Why should the rules of dst be bent for a relatively split portion of the player base abusing a bug to avoid the experience the developers envisioned? If people are fine with killing fuelweaver like that, they can use console commands. Leaving what is essentially an oversight in the game just so people can refer to it as cheese rather than cheating is not the right move. Direct this passion into suggesting ways to make bosses more playable/easier to fight after you beat them once. I would love a way to legitimately void walk, perhaps using the lantern that fuel weaver drops to summon little bone platforms on the void. Also, burning things is at least an intended game mechanic, and the banning you mentioned was so easy could just be used on them.

59 minutes ago, grm9 said:

how does that make what i said make less sense?

Because you are contradicting and devaluing your own argument. You admit that asking server hosts to use commands to kill fuel weaver is awkward, but why? Because it's cheating? Is the lureplant exploit really so different?

[grm9]

1 minute ago, Pet Rock said:

Then use them? The point is that for a legitimate fuel weaver fight, more preparation that is tied to progression is required

wdym? i've just told you that you need to wait for spring to do FW using lureplants cheese, you can get enough preparation for fighting FW with below average damage multiplier 10 times by the time spring comes

3 minutes ago, Pet Rock said:

Why should the rules of dst be bent for a relatively split portion of the player base abusing a bug to avoid the experience the developers envisioned? If people are fine with killing fuelweaver like that, they can use console commands. Leaving what is essentially an oversight in the game just so people can refer to it as cheese rather than cheating is not the right move. Direct this passion into suggesting ways to make bosses more playable/easier to fight after you beat them once. I would love a way to legitimately void walk, perhaps using the lantern that fuel weaver drops to summon little bone platforms on the void. Also, burning things is at least an intended game mechanic, and the banning you mentioned was so easy could just be used on them

if that isn't cheese, then what is cheese? there was no need to remove cheese to change lazy explorer controller stuff and there won't be a need to remove voidwalking to add a more consistent and fun way to find atrium tentapillar, i wouldn't want thurible to be the only way to voidwalk because finding atrium tentapillar for the 1st time is the part that sucks the most because it's simply entirely RNG, FW is already very easy to kill after the 1st time and people only used cheese after killing him once because they didn't want to bother with the fight, not because it's hard, cheese can also be used for the 1st kill in case people don't like the boss even though a lot of other people like the boss or they don't want to spend time getting preparation for it, you also still didn't say how is someone cheesing FW on a server you're playing on detrimental, you could've done it faster than them if you would've wanted to and if that wasn't your goal, then they could've also killed him normally even before they got a lureplant and nothing would've changed for you, something being intended or not doesn't matter

9 minutes ago, Pet Rock said:

Because you are contradicting and devaluing your own argument. You admit that asking server hosts to use commands to kill fuel weaver is awkward, but why? Because it's cheating? Is the lureplant exploit really so different?

because there are dedicated servers that often have no admins online on them, e.g. klei servers and it's bothersome for both, people asking and people having to answer

[Pet Rock]

57 minutes ago, grm9 said:

was no need to remove cheese to change lazy explorer controller stuff and there won't be a need to remove voidwalking to add a more consistent and fun way to find atrium tentapillar,

There is no need to keep the exploit in the game once better alternatives are in the game. It would be redundant to leave a bug in the game when an in-game alternative for it already exists. If you are unhappy with the proper implementation I have come up with, feel free to think of your own.

1 hour ago, grm9 said:

wdym?

If cheese-less ways to kill the fuelweaver are so much faster, then why use the lureplant exploit?

1 hour ago, grm9 said:

you also still didn't say how is someone cheesing FW on a server you're playing on detrimental

I don't have the will or the skill to prepare and fight him that quickly. I would rather spend that time playing the game instead of being forced to rush to the ruins and kill the final boss before spring.

57 minutes ago, grm9 said:

because there are dedicated servers that often have no admins online on them, e.g. klei servers and it's bothersome for both, people asking and people having to answer

fair point. Still solved by having intended replacements though.

[grm9]

1 hour ago, Pet Rock said:

There is no need to keep the exploit in the game once better alternatives are in the game. It would be redundant to leave a bug in the game when an in-game alternative for it already exists. If you are unhappy with the proper implementation I have come up with, feel free to think of your own

devs might end up adding something that still won't be enjoyable, i'd still prefer to voidwalk if some sort of fight like werepig would've been required that would boil down to walking to the side to win

1 hour ago, Pet Rock said:

If cheese-less ways to kill the fuelweaver are so much faster, then why use the lureplant exploit?

i never did, but some people did because of not liking the fight or being unable to do it or not wanting to fight it after 1st time

1 hour ago, Pet Rock said:

I don't have the will or the skill to prepare and fight him that quickly. I would rather spend that time playing the game instead of being forced to rush to the ruins and kill the final boss before spring

then why complain about someone killing him in spring using cheese even though they could've also killed it on day 4 without cheese?

1 hour ago, Pet Rock said:

fair point. Still solved by having intended replacements though

they might still end up not being enjoyable, especially considering that imo bosses only got worse since CC or terraria eyes, not sure about which got released 1st

Edited April 5 by grm9

[EatenCheetos]

6 hours ago, grm9 said:

because there are dedicated servers that often have no admins online on them, e.g. klei servers and it's bothersome for both, people asking and people having to answer

Those server’s definitely shouldn’t have cheating on them, yet you argue in favor of that? I can’t take you seriously. Your argument is so ridiculous that you have got to be rage baiting.