[Game Update] - 599141

[Well-met]

1 minute ago, Fufuji said:

if boss' combat is horribly designed then it doesn't deserve to be slain normally.

seems not straight-forward but logical.

"horribly designed" is debatable.

see, this game was made and balanced around multiple players. Their high HP becomes no problem when you play this multiplayer game with multiple players.

 

the fact that DST is playable solo is a privilege, not a right. If you choose to play solo then you accept to forfeit the raid bosses unless you are geared and prepared properly.

[Mysterious box]

5 hours ago, grm9 said:

being bothered by things that people do and that don't directly affect you is mostly your problem tbh, i can't imagine how you'd cope with that in terms of irl stuff e.g. smoking or anything you don't like people doing considering there are millions of people doing that and you can't do anything to make even half of them stop doing that, infinite hp would be problematic because everyone who would want to play the way they did previously would need to count all changes to hp and go to touchstones to revive etc. on their own to simulate how it was while you could not even know that lureplants cheese exists and kill a boss without it 

It's weird how you're assuming what does and doesn't affect other people that being said I never said exploits bother me specifically just that I understand why people are bothered by it but once again you making people not liking bugs that the devs themselves acknowledged as bugs to be fixed a character problem on the side of the people who have a issue with it once again demonizing anyone who disagrees which seems to be a common mob mentality on these forums.

5 hours ago, grm9 said:

doubt that most people do that, i still see people fight FW properly often, even if with weather pain/brightshade staff

Honestly I feel like at this point you just can't imagine anyone thinking contrary to your views unless there's something wrong with them which is a really problematic mindset to have.

2 hours ago, Yuuko said:

So is pretending building a wall is a problem for dfly.

The fight is fine, the wall is fine, its an option.  Its literally on par with crafting ice staff to freeze larvae.  We don't need to persuade players to play without the wall.  Of all of the cheese in the game that completely disables the boss fight 100%, this wall is not a concern as you still actually fight dfly, deal with rage mode, etc.  Just drop the wall complaints, they are blatantly ignorant, hence my response purposefully being ignorant in reply.

Point wasn't even that the wall is bad it was that the fight could used a rework to be more enjoyable to fight as if it were enjoyable more people would want to fight it without the walls rather than just to prove they can when some actually do. Dumbing it down to just wall bad is still being ignorant for the sake of it.

 

3 hours ago, Yuuko said:

at most it is small sections of some communities who spite people for their fun.  Most people are going to judge it based on the skill displayed.

It's really not even more so when you consider people who focus on higher skill gameplay tend to be part of the smaller part of communities to begin with so what your claiming is only a small part of a small community will actually care about things like that.

3 hours ago, Yuuko said:

Largely I think your opinion here is mistakenly conflating actual cheating (code manipulation, mod / hack, etc) with exploits built into the game.

Really the definition is largely up to the devs and they're usually the ones who decide wether something is unintended gameplay that being said there seems to be a misunderstanding that I'm against people using cheats or exploits I'm not just explaining hownthese things go.

3 hours ago, Yuuko said:

The reason UncompMod comes up again and again is because it had a very clear anti-creativity, anti-player design philosophy - and Klei is edging closer and closer to this philosophy every patch now.

I didn't play the old one so I can't say how that was but the more recent version of it seems pretty creative and seems to be more so separate from current dst in design. Either way dst isn't trying to be uncompromising nor should it. Doesn't mean the devs can't adapt ideas if they think it suits the direction they want to take the game it's not really up to us to decide if that's what makes their game more popular it's the same as people fighting against skill trees. Most people seem to like newer fights like cc, werepig, and the corrupted bosses.

3 hours ago, Yuuko said:

Squashing interactions like klaus sack, lureplants, etc are right in line with this.  The creativity and joy of the world are being drained away for some dumb Dark Souls combat fantasy that DST can never satisfy.  Now instead of an enjoyable end game where I'm free to explore the world and its interactions, I'm being flooded with BS plants, lunar hail, portals tearing up resources and making the landscape look disgusting and unnatural.  Its not uncomp mods fault, but it IS the fault of players and designers who can't wrap their heads around other people doing something differently.

Klei needs to go back to designing bosses without a specific "this is how you beat it" and quit making every problem have a purposeful in-game solution.  "We're adding acid rain, and an umbrella that stops acid rain" etc.

Why not push for more official alternative paths to boss fights as well as items that speed them up beyond being stronger weapons?

9 minutes ago, -Variant said:

In a follow up comment one of the Devs did say they'd look into touching these bosses up!

I'll gladly take the fights being more bearable in exchange of the exploits, especially if it means they're more fun to encounter!

This is the point I'm trying to get at I don't get why " Let's make boss fights more fun and less tedious to grind is so controversial."

[Fufuji]

6 minutes ago, -Variant said:

In a follow up comment one of the Devs did say they'd look into touching these bosses up!

I'll gladly take the fights being more bearable in exchange of the exploits, especially if it means they're more fun to encounter!

I believe in that Klei will tweak/rework old boss battles for the better.

Even least creative and compromising ideas like nerfing HP in easy mode will help.

11 minutes ago, Well-met said:

"horribly designed" is debatable.

see, this game was made and balanced around multiple players. Their high HP becomes no problem when you play this multiplayer game with multiple players.

 

the fact that DST is playable solo is a privilege, not a right. If you choose to play solo then you accept to forfeit the raid bosses unless you are geared and prepared properly.

In multiplayer gameplay their HP simply seems too low. This just usually lead to that bosses dying too quickly and without having its AI well performed. That is also a shame.

If old bosses rework is to take place, there are much more problems than simple words like "horribly designed" to deal with for Klei.

[Yuuko]

34 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Point wasn't even that the wall is bad it was that the fight could used a rework to be more enjoyable to fight as if it were enjoyable more people would want to fight it without the walls rather than just to prove they can when some actually do. Dumbing it down to just wall bad is still being ignorant for the sake of it.

And I'm saying the fight is good exactly the way it is, wall and all.  The fight is perfectly approachable with or without a wall, it is an option just like an ice staff is an option to freeze lavae vs fighting through them.  Just like in AFW I can use a weather pain to clear woven shadows, or instead of that just kite AFW around so that he doesn't ever eat them.  Just like I can equip a nm amulet to toggle sanity, or utilize AFW's natural sanity loss.  just like, just like... etc, etc...  The wall is fine, the fight is fine.

There is no official way to complete any of these fights, nor should there be.  Fundamentally DST is a game about Emergent Gameplay.

I feel I cannot stress this enough, as it is one of the major notes you are completely missing when you say things like:

34 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Why not push for more official alternative paths to boss fights as well as items that speed them up beyond being stronger weapons?

Emergent gameplay is not about having "official paths."  Its about having a world, and tools, and NO specific instructions.  The shift from that to what we're getting now is MASSIVE in tone for DST.  A very concerning change for how the game has been designed up to this point.  NO, I don't need "official alternate paths."  Do you not understand how ridiculous it is to remove lureplant's ability to block bosses only to replace it with ItemOfBossBlocking??

Yet we're basically there.  With Maxwell's shadow prison - which can trap EVERY MOB IN THE GAME and getting lureplant nerfs...

"We don't want people blocking the scrap yard from ScrappyPig so we're nerfing lureplants."

"Also Maxwell can just shadow prison to the same effect lol"

34 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

It's really not even more so when you consider people who focus on higher skill gameplay tend to be part of the smaller part of communities to begin with so what your claiming is only a small part of a small community will actually care about things like that.

Trust, I focused on high skill gameplay and involved myself in those communities.  I've zero opposition to most exploitation.  For a lot of the games these exploits become skills.  As an example Celeste is a VERY high skill cap game.  The way movement was designed in the game made for some exploitive techniques which were not only left in, but additional levels (official and mod) leaned in to these exploits endorsing them as standard maneuvers.  They actually became "need to know" techniques, yet they were 100% exploits of unintended mechanics.

Fact is, exploiting a game IS playing it.  We use higher damage weapons because they end fights faster, we use higher % defense armor so we can tank through fights to simplify  them.  Other exploits are simply an extension of this behavior.  Techniques to isolate targets from swarms of mobs that would be a distraction, disable status to gain extra openings, etc are all really the same thing.  Playing the game, learning the mechanics, and taking advantage of them.  Replaying a game through the most manual method possible is an option IF you want to, but is not the normal course of gaming at any skill level.

34 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

This is the point I'm trying to get at I don't get why " Let's make boss fights more fun and less tedious to grind is so controversial."

Largely the boss fights are fun.  AFW fight is fun.  Its stressful, difficult, and requires a lot to go through, but it is fun.  The fact that it is stressful, difficult, and requires a lot makes sense considering it is probably the hardest boss in the game right now.  The fact that you might want to repeat it 2+ times per player to get everyone bone armor, or more for ruins resets means players probably also want a way to streamline the fight.  Making it less stressful, difficult, and resource intensive because once of all of those is fine, but a continuation of all of those is not.  Just like BS plants - having them invade isn't a problem, but having them invade all the time becomes monotonous.  No matter what the interactions are, the continuous and inflexible nature of them turn it from gaming challenge to chore.

I don't think we need to change AFW or Dfly.  Both fights are fine, even with their cheese.  I'm iffy on Crab King because I've seen it fought a few different ways.  It takes a lot of skill to fight it in some other ways, but that skill is impressive!  I think Bee Queen and Toad are probably the only bosses I would really look at re-working.  Although you could leave the fights the same and just keep adding new tools and options to the game and see how it evolves.  Glass axes did wonders for the toad fight, its really only Misery that still feels like a bit much.

I don't suggest re-working the overly strict and scripted fights like AG, NMWP, Zombosses, etc b/c there is room for variety in the game, but I do not think these should be the template for all bosses going forward either.  They are far too linear and repetitive, making repeat fights feel monotonous.  DST is based on creative, emergent gameplay.  To be successful Klei needs to allow unintuitive, unexpected solutions to obstacles in the game - and to lean INTO them.  Making bosses resistant to to "unapproved" methods is bad for this game.

[grm9]

1 hour ago, Mysterious box said:

It's weird how you're assuming what does and doesn't affect other people that being said I never said exploits bother me specifically just that I understand why people are bothered by it but once again you making people not liking bugs that the devs themselves acknowledged as bugs to be fixed a character problem on the side of the people who have a issue with it once again demonizing anyone who disagrees which seems to be a common mob mentality on these forums

a lot of people directly say that those who use cheese are unworthy of reaching what they reached using cheese and that they shouldn't be allowed to do that and you still didn't say how cheese negatively impacts people that don't use it aside from someone doing something faster than you on a pub using cheese but you never really see people doing fuelweaver day 4 with cheese on pubs and most other cheese strats are less efficient than no cheese e.g. waiting behind a wall for dfly to spawn lavaes and come back

1 hour ago, Mysterious box said:

Honestly I feel like at this point you just can't imagine anyone thinking contrary to your views unless there's something wrong with them which is a really problematic mindset to have

how is that related to me saying that most people i've seen do FW without cheese?

[_zwb]

2 hours ago, -Variant said:

I'll gladly take the fights being more bearable in exchange of the exploits, especially if it means they're more fun to encounter!

Not really a good thing considering Klei likes to remove the bug/exploit solution first then put out a proper solution to problem in couple months. Instead of just, you know, add them in the same update?!

2 hours ago, Well-met said:

the fact that DST is playable solo is a privilege, not a right. If you choose to play solo then you accept to forfeit the raid bosses unless you are geared and prepared properly.

Would be nice if it tells me that before I buy it The developers just can't be bothered to make it easier for solo players (even deliberately release anti-solo content), even though the game could be fun solo as shown by Don't Starve itself, welp, it is what it is I guess.

Edited March 22 by _zwb

[Mysterious box]

 

1 hour ago, Yuuko said:

And I'm saying the fight is good exactly the way it is, wall and all.  The fight is perfectly approachable with or without a wall, it is an option just like an ice staff is an option to freeze lavae vs fighting through them.  Just like in AFW I can use a weather pain to clear woven shadows, or instead of that just kite AFW around so that he doesn't ever eat them.  Just like I can equip a nm amulet to toggle sanity, or utilize AFW's natural sanity loss.  just like, just like... etc, etc...  The wall is fine, the fight is fine.

I mean it's fine from the perspective of us veterans I'm not even really sure if the fights need big overhauls but if the goal is to make the game more appealing veterans like us saying bosses are fine probably isn't the way to go the ball should be in the court of newer and more casual players that doesn't mean we should sit back and let these fights get butchered but we also shouldn't be so resistant to change until we atleast see how klei handles it. If it turns out bad I'm more than happy to defend reverting it but we should at least give them a chance right?

1 hour ago, Yuuko said:

There is no official way to complete any of these fights, nor should there be.  Fundamentally DST is a game about Emergent Gameplay.

I guess official was a bad way to phrase it but that's not quite what I meant. I'm not asking for bosses to have one way to fight them many games offer alternative ways to defeat bosses in unintended ways that make sense to the game's world even dst has this probably the best examples being killing bearger with tree guards or deerclopes with tentacles there are even lesser examples like lighting mobs homes on fire to get them to leave their homes. Even without going down routes like those would it really bad such a bad thing if bosses had multiple ways to fight bosses built into the game in less buggy ways? I also don't see a issue with implementing mechanics that introduces outcomes similar to removed exploits who loses here? Your creativity is being given the ultimate reward no? Not saying it needs to happen but I don't see how it'd be a bad thing.

2 hours ago, Yuuko said:

Yet we're basically there.  With Maxwell's shadow prison - which can trap EVERY MOB IN THE GAME and getting lureplant nerfs...

"We don't want people blocking the scrap yard from ScrappyPig so we're nerfing lureplants."

"Also Maxwell can just shadow prison to the same effect lol"

I mean I've already complained about Maxwell enough for abit I don't think it's a secret that I think Maxwell should have a rebalancing so atleast I have consistency going for me...

2 hours ago, Yuuko said:

Largely the boss fights are fun.  AFW fight is fun.  Its stressful, difficult, and requires a lot to go through, but it is fun.  The fact that it is stressful, difficult, and requires a lot makes sense considering it is probably the hardest boss in the game right now.

The question really comes down to is the fight fun or do you just feel it's fun. I'm not saying your wrong here but talking from personal experience I like the bee queen fight but I also understand it's very much a disliked fight I wouldn't be surprised if fuel weaver inspired the same feelings in people who have tried it and even turned off many who feel they'll never even attempt it after seeing how stressful the fight can be

2 hours ago, Yuuko said:

The fact that you might want to repeat it 2+ times per player to get everyone bone armor,

I know this is a controversial opinion but I still think boss loot should scale based on how many players are nearby when it dies.

2 hours ago, Yuuko said:

don't think we need to change AFW or Dfly.  Both fights are fine, even with their cheese.  I'm iffy on Crab King because I've seen it fought a few different ways.  It takes a lot of skill to fight it in some other ways, but that skill is impressive!  I think Bee Queen and Toad are probably the only bosses I would really look at re-working.  Although you could leave the fights the same and just keep adding new tools and options to the game and see how it evolves.  Glass axes did wonders for the toad fight, its really only Misery that still feels like a bit much.

I mean crab king is pretty largely considered a bad boss by the community.

2 hours ago, Yuuko said:

don't suggest re-working the overly strict and scripted fights like AG, NMWP, Zombosses, etc b/c there is room for variety in the game, but I do not think these should be the template for all bosses going forward either.  They are far too linear and repetitive, making repeat fights feel monotonous.  DST is based on creative, emergent gameplay.  To be successful Klei needs to allow unintuitive, unexpected solutions to obstacles in the game - and to lean INTO them.  Making bosses resistant to to "unapproved" methods is bad for this game.

I don't see how guardian is overly strict sure you can use the pillars but you could kite him or even attempt to time his charges to counter attack him interrupting his charges with Walter for example. That being said I do agree the others could use more options I'm not saying I want bosses to have one method to fight them.

[Mike23Ua]

1 hour ago, _zwb said:

Not really a good thing considering Klei likes to remove the bug/exploit solution first then put out a proper solution to problem in couple months. Instead of just, you know, add them in the same update?!

Would be nice if it tells me that before I buy it The developers just can't be bothered to make it easier for solo players (even deliberately release anti-solo content), even though the game could be fun solo as shown by Don't Starve itself, welp, it is what it is I guess.

I once asked the devs why there is an option to choose to host a world with a maximum of 1 player but the content of the game does not scale based on this.

The answer that I got was somewhere along the lines of they would have to completely Re-design some older areas of the game.

It was on the Back-Burner of things they intended to revisit at some point later, so it’s still on the “To-Do” list so to speak…

And if I was a gambling man we got 4 QoL updates coming this year I’d wager to guess that at least ONE of those 4 QoLs will dabble around with that.

In the meantime, I’m just super super super grateful that items in my inventory will no longer be a jumbled Mess while trying to Equip/Unequip them.

[Mysterious box]

2 hours ago, grm9 said:

how is that related to me saying that most people i've seen do FW without cheese?

It's not it's related to what I quoted above that quote kinda misplaced that.

 

2 hours ago, grm9 said:

lot of people directly say that those who use cheese are unworthy of reaching what they reached using cheese and that they shouldn't be allowed to do that and you still didn't say how cheese negatively impacts people that don't use it aside from someone doing something faster than you on a pub using cheese but you never really see people doing fuelweaver day 4 with cheese on pubs and most other cheese strats are less efficient than no cheese e.g. waiting behind a wall for dfly to spawn lavaes and come back

It varies from person to person but one example I can think of is with dfly where someone walled the ponds themselves instead of making a long wall. That being said people can very much just not like bugs just as much as someone can just not like bad game design.(there are people who enjoy that sort of thing as well surprisingly) You can say they can just get over it and it's not affecting them but even skill trees and post rift content prove otherwise as in theory both could be ignored in the same token.

[Valase]

4 hours ago, Fufuji said:

In DST players using exploits to avoid boring battles, Klei Entertainment:

Lureplants and Spider Dens can now be trampled by creatures that can trample through obstacles and structures.

I find this funny because they changed this so the Scrappy Werepig does not get stuck on Lureplants when he goes back to the junk pile to get a new weapon and thanks to that people are behaving like the FW/Toadstool cheese just got discovered and klei is patching it because they dont like fun.

[Yuuko]

25 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

I mean it's fine from the perspective of us veterans I'm not even really sure if the fights need big overhauls but if the goal is to make the game more appealing veterans like us saying bosses are fine probably isn't the way to go the ball should be in the court of newer and more casual players that doesn't mean we should sit back and let these fights get butchered but we also shouldn't be so resistant to change until we atleast see how klei handles it. If it turns out bad I'm more than happy to defend reverting it but we should at least give them a chance right?

Are you talking about dfly scaring players away from DST in general or just the fight?

I don't think dfly is a problem in either sense.  Dfly isn't such a focus that people need to defeat it in order to play.  There is a lot of other content they can scale up on first.  In a group dfly is pretty easy even for newer players just rushing it fearlessly with some healing and armor.  Solo is the only tough spot - but that is where the wall comes in.  That enables ppl to easily approach the fight solo or in less reliable / more casual groups.  t also teaches that this game is about creativity, not just weapons and attacking.

We SHOULD find our creativity is rewarded in DST, and fortunately through it's life span where walls failed other structures like statues, fossil pieces, and lureplants succeeded.  Sad to see the game get this aspect reduced so much in new content.

2 minutes ago, Valase said:

I find this funny because they changed this so the Scrappy Werepig does not get stuck on Lureplants when he goes back to the junk pile to get a new weapon and thanks to that people are behaving like the FW/Toadstool cheese just got discovered and klei is patching it because they dont like fun.

Could just make the range around the scrap pile unable to be built / planted in, similar to restrictions around other structures.

[Fufuji]

3 hours ago, Valase said:

I find this funny because they changed this so the Scrappy Werepig does not get stuck on Lureplants when he goes back to the junk pile to get a new weapon and thanks to that people are behaving like the FW/Toadstool cheese just got discovered and klei is patching it because they dont like fun.

Klei could have reworked Scrappy Werepig AI so it become smarter and don't get stuck by walls/fences/teetering junk pile/lureplants. Or they could make Scrappy Werepig the only creature that can trample lureplants.

Neither solution above Klei had chosen. They have chosen to solve the problem the way least creative, just as how they always do.

[JeezSorry]

Wow this thread went down gutter. People should just play how they please. Sure some bosses definitely need some tweaking to be a bit more enjoyable. In the end, If it’s rewarding to you, then that’s all that matters. Right? 

If you never wanted to use a certain strategy, then you never did. If you ostracize others for using a strategy that you don’t use that’s just rude. 

I think Klei removing some strategies gives opportunities to come up with more, and hopefully it leads a path to change in bosses.

Edited March 23 by JeezSorry

[BezKa]

BTW is Polar Bearger Bin meant to be able to be eaten by a lureplant?

[grm9]

7 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

It varies from person to person but one example I can think of is with dfly where someone walled the ponds themselves instead of making a long wall

who is supposed to be annoyed in that case? people making 1 big wall will probably be happy since it'll be even easier and quicker and people that want to fight dfly normally could've just done that before someone built the walls

7 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

That being said people can very much just not like bugs just as much as someone can just not like bad game design.(there are people who enjoy that sort of thing as well surprisingly) You can say they can just get over it and it's not affecting them but even skill trees and post rift content prove otherwise as in theory both could be ignored in the same token

it makes sense to complain about updates that you think aren't making the game better because devs spend time making them that they could've spent making updates that you'd think are good, but keeping bugs that exist doesn't require them to do anything unless they just break on their own after they change something

[EatenCheetos]

2 hours ago, JeezSorry said:

In the end, If it’s rewarding to you, then that’s all that matters. Right?

No, that’s incredibly reductive

I can’t believe people are actually in favor of keeping broken mechanics so they can skip the hardest bossfight

[Maxil20]

On 3/19/2024 at 10:51 PM, Cruvimaster said:

I believe it is the most important message for the community and ends any discussion about the use of exploids in the game.

Posts that Age like Milk

[Mysterious box]

4 hours ago, grm9 said:

who is supposed to be annoyed in that case? people making 1 big wall will probably be happy since it'll be even easier and quicker and people that want to fight dfly normally could've just done that before someone built the walls

it makes sense to complain about updates that you think aren't making the game better because devs spend time making them that they could've spent making updates that you'd think are good, but keeping bugs that exist doesn't require them to do anything unless they just break on their own after they change something

Idk this just feels like your saying as long as it doesn't bother you it's not a problem. Why should someone have to rush dfly and from that point onwards just deal with it? Why can someone complain about new content but not the old? Saying because it's new content isn't a good answer it's just a hand wave.

11 hours ago, Yuuko said:

Are you talking about dfly scaring players away from DST in general or just the fight?

I don't think dfly is a problem in either sense.  Dfly isn't such a focus that people need to defeat it in order to play.  There is a lot of other content they can scale up on first.  In a group dfly is pretty easy even for newer players just rushing it fearlessly with some healing and armor.  Solo is the only tough spot - but that is where the wall comes in.  That enables ppl to easily approach the fight solo or in less reliable / more casual groups.  t also teaches that this game is about creativity, not just weapons and attacking.

We SHOULD find our creativity is rewarded in DST, and fortunately through it's life span where walls failed other structures like statues, fossil pieces, and lureplants succeeded.  Sad to see the game get this aspect reduced so much in new content.

I don't disagree that creativity should be rewarded but I think that this creativity should also apply to methods that don't rely solely on exploits either as breaking mechanics shouldn't be the only way to be creative. I'm more so saying bosses overall could probably use another look not just by the way dfly was mainly meant as an example it's very possible it might not need a change but it doesn't mean we shouldn't consider it.

[grm9]

47 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Why should someone have to rush dfly

because if the issue is someone doing dfly using cheese before you could do it without cheese, you could've killed it before they set up cheese and if you aren't trying to do it as fast as you can, they could've also killed it without cheese before you could've killed it so them using or not using cheese is irrelevant

48 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

I from that point onwards just deal with it?

with what?

49 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Why can someone complain about new content but not the old?

that's unrelated to what i said, updates could also have reworks of old stuff, but there's no point in reworking or removing bugs because people could also not use them if the intended way to do something becomes more fun e.g. finding atrium and bugs could remain in case the way that klei add ends up being unfun

[TalhaStarve]

On 3/20/2024 at 3:23 PM, grm9 said:

learn how to talk to people so they answer instead of thinking that you're a troll or not worth their time

you could be good and still use cheese because cheeseless fights require more time and preparation, even minimal gear FW requires getting a lot of armor, sanity food and insanity food when playing solo as characters without damage multipliers 

everything that happens after it's death remains the same regardless of how you killed it, including it's loot and being able to activate shadow rifts after that

if the loot is same always then kill it with cheats dude??? whats the matter?? also dst is always works on removing cheeses so using any cheese is wrong.Fw fight has no cheeses other than that lureplant method.Just get good

[grm9]

7 hours ago, TalhaStarve said:

if the loot is same always then kill it with cheats dude??? whats the matter??

if you mean console commands and mods, they aren't available on all servers

7 hours ago, TalhaStarve said:

also dst is always works on removing cheeses so using any cheese is wrong

why?

7 hours ago, TalhaStarve said:

Fw fight has no cheeses other than that lureplant method

clueless

7 hours ago, TalhaStarve said:

Just get good

i've already killed FW using minimal gear multiple times in a practice world but i still use cheese when playing normally 

[EatenCheetos]

On 3/20/2024 at 8:23 AM, grm9 said:

you could be good and still use cheese because cheeseless fights require more time and preparation, even minimal gear FW requires getting a lot of armor, sanity food and insanity food when playing solo as characters without damage multipliers 

An excellent point as to why cheese should be removed

10 hours ago, grm9 said:

why?

No need to ask why, you said it yourself. See the quote above

Besides, Klei made their decision. Pro-cheesers you lost, wrap this conversation up

[grm9]

5 minutes ago, EatenCheetos said:

An excellent point as to why cheese should be removed

so cheese should be removed to force people to stop playing because of boredom because picking 40 cactus and getting a lot of armor and healing isn't fun? maybe admit that you just hate people?

[EatenCheetos]

2 minutes ago, grm9 said:

so cheese should be removed to force people to stop playing because of boredom because picking 40 cactus and getting a lot of armor and healing isn't fun?

Yes

If you’re not willing to do the preparation for a bossfight, you shouldn’t just have the victory handed to you. Glad we’re on the same page.

[grm9]

6 minutes ago, EatenCheetos said:

If you’re not willing to do the preparation for a bossfight, you shouldn’t just have the victory handed to you. Glad we’re on the same page

why do you want people to stop playing because of being forced to do boring stuff? why do you want to force others to do boring stuff? why do you want to change how others play? how would that be good for the game, considering less people playing it is bad?

Edited April 4 by grm9