The game is turning into a mess. All what was once built is now being destroyed. We don't know what Klei's intention, mission and philosophy is anymore.

[mykenception]

8 minutes ago, Swiyss said:

You wouldn't thank me if I pointed it out, and I thought that you would see it by then, my bad.

I will provide gratitude to any who help me sort my confusion or troubles, I'm just that simple

[Swiyss]

I'll add something to the mix here.

Petition to STOP NEW CONTENT when this arc is finished so we can focus more on Reap What You Sow rather than Moon Quay Island and basically just doing the same mistake.

Honestly, that's a good strategy by Klei Lol.

Add feature that can be fixed, to then add more content to overwhelm old features, then when new content is done we fix old features, but purposely leave 1 or two out, then the game feels finished, only for them to repeat the cycle and the game feeling unfinished again for another 3 or 4 years.

Then revolve things around survivors so we can keep people hyped while also giving them free replay ability for like 2 months or so.

[Yuuko]

31 minutes ago, Swiyss said:

Like.. replay ability IS still a problem in my view, and this current way to doing things has many flaws, one of them being the existence of chests itself.

The game has so many fixable core issues.

Is it a problem?  I have over 3k hours clocked on this game.  That is quite a lot...

Most of my replay time is spent in the process of going from early to late game in different paths, with different characters, and different strategies.  Occasionally with different people too lol but most of my time is also pure solo.

I'd say I'm not really concerned about replay value because there are already so many different ways to play the game.  tbh its only with the new arc's focus on completing AFW and CC, planar damage type, highly scripted boss fights, and a more monotonous end-game loop of endless repetitive time consuming tasks being pushed on me that I feel my desire to play the game is at all curbed.

Things like planar, "hard" scaling, etc are threatening to me because I've seen them drain all of the fun out of otherwise fun games.  They add in grind and endless scaling (both artificial difficulties) under the guise of "difficulty" and "replayability" and I quickly find myself leaving the game off.

My average world before this arc would go for 200-300 days.  In this arc I get to about 200ish days... and then it gets to be too much nonsense and I re-start.  I still enjoy restarting, and the process of clearing through it all.  Just once I get through to the rift content and I'm faced with constant BS plant spam and try-hard boss fights it starts to get old much quicker...  I don't feel nearly as much freedom as I used to.

I like the idea of new fun, and challenging things to do - but the constant pressure and invasiveness of the BS plants and planar stuff is just not good.

 

Infinite chest storage isn't on my radar of concerns at all.  I really don't see, in any way, how this could be a bad thing for the game especially as a post-rifts craft.

Edited March 5 by Yuuko

[Swiyss]

3 minutes ago, Yuuko said:

Is it a problem?  I have over 3k hours clocked on this game.  That is quite a lot...

Most of my replay time is spent in the process of going from early to late game in different paths, with different characters, and different strategies.  Occasionally with different people too lol but most of my time is also pure solo.

I'd say I'm not really concerned about that because there are already so many different ways to approach the game.  tbh its only with the new arc's focus on completing AFW and CC, planar damage type, highly scripted boss fights, and a more monotonous end-game loop of endless repetitive time consuming tasks being pushed on me that I feel my desire to play the game is at all curbed.  And even then, it isn't yet - things like planar, "hard" scaling, etc are threatening because I've seen them drain all of the fun out of otherwise fun games b/c grind and endless scaling (both artificial difficulties) were added under the guise of "difficulty" and "replayability."

My average world before this arc would go for 200-300 days.  In this arc I'm more around 200ish days... and then it gets to be too much nonsense and I re-start.  I still enjoy restarting, and the process of clearing through it all.  Just once I get through to the rift content and I'm faced with constant BS plant spam and try-hard boss fights it starts to get old much quicker...  I don't feel nearly as much freedom as I used to.

I like the idea of new fun, and challenging things to do - but the constant pressure and invasiveness of the BS plants and planar stuff is just not good.

I have to disagree with you on this one in a specific thing. That being the argument that brightshades are not encouraging players to play (actually doing the opposite) and that planar stuff is just not good.

I already told you about fighting them without planar first but I don't know if you like.. tried it. If one does but still feels like it doesn't add anything, maybe I'm just a psycho looking for pain, but I don't want to believe that. Rather I argue that this planar damage inclusion is just part of the same problem I presented to you here, but maybe I wasn't clear enough. Really I wasn't actually, let me try to break it down for you.

The idea of deerclops negating spring is already old, reing of giants. Then they added planar weapons before encountering planar bossed, except for brightshades, which are an inconvenience more than a boss or mini-bossfight.

These 2 scenarios come with the same problem. A core problem which should be fixed.

However, this core problem in itself being fixed by forcing the player to go through pain first actually LIMITS the players OPTIONS. That is why I proposed a more thoughful combat system, engaging in tasks system, model of exploration system, lore-based character approach system, skill tree PATH SET SELECTION system and etc.. then, we would theoretically have a very very well and engaging game design that focuses on everyone, everything, in every way (every = all things presented by the devs and the game itself with creative approaches).

Now, say one doesnt enjoy that still for whatever reason, or has arguments about balance problems and multiplayer interaction. Well, aren't we throwing that away already? 

Even still, player would thrive after those encounters, hm. It makes sense and it feels almost too perfect to be true.

That'll be only additions also, not number changes and making old DS singleplayer feel too outdated since.. it would only add things to existing, well, things.

How can some argue against that? Not only it would fix that eyebrea progression issue, but also engage the player way way more.

Coming from an experienced game manager's perspective, this would feel perfect for player 'retention'. Still being very simple to implement. I have around 50 or so suggestions piled up on my posts and all are great for the game and vague enough that they could add their own touch to it.

Still, I love this new arc, love the additions and love the game as well as everything being added. So after this whole ARC ends, I hope this gets taken a look at.

[Mike23Ua]

1 hour ago, arubaro said:

Drop stuff in the ground, day 1 infinity storage that requires 0 resources and less space

Nerf ground

If the ground is so OP then how about we do as you say and we nerf it?

Lets add hamlets strong winds, let’s let Moleworms or Lureplants or Catcoons or any other mob Klei can think up steal items that aren’t stored in storage chests.

And to make sure people don’t just build a chest so these mobs don’t troll them, let’s add some mobs that if not killed or ran away from our chests can rummage through them and throw items on the ground or steal from them, such as Hamlet Pogs & DST pirate Monkey.

Then finally if that’s not hardcore enough for you, let’s add an animation so anything left on the ground too long will be grabbed by shadow hands and pulled directly into the ground never to be seen again, just like the game toggle on Minecraft where when you die your inventory gets deleted from the game world.

Sounds fun and uncompromising, yeah?

So I agree with you, Ground OP.. nerf Ground.

But while we’re at it- Large storage chests OP too so let’s balance that with several mobs that can rob them.

[Yuuko]

25 minutes ago, Swiyss said:

I have to disagree with you on this one in a specific thing. That being the argument that brightshades are not encouraging players to play (actually doing the opposite) and that planar stuff is just not good.

I already told you about fighting them without planar first but I don't know if you like.. tried it.

I did.

BS plants were the same, just longer.  Deerclops not using planar or fire was longer and had forced damage from his frost aura.  The toggle for them is really fire, not planar.  Bearger is even more repetitive without planar.  It didn't really change the fight much, just less opportunity for damage between the butt plops, and the butt plops were endless.  His rapid slash and butt dash attacks are horrible, and mostly serve as a punishment for not following the very strict script of fighting him.  Kite wrong, get punished.  Do it right, ez fight.  The challenge of the Varg fight is the ads whether its regular varg or zombie.  Distract them with some caged food, and fight the Varg as normal.  Not getting the stun wasn't much of an issue, just make sure you're kiting the right way around him so you dodge when it does lunar flames.  Not getting the stun made this a bit more fun, but not more difficult.  The stuns definitely suck for these, but worse are the lengths Bearger goes to anti-cheese the thing...

Fighting them all with and without planar (or fire for Deerclops) I didn't feel the experience was any better.  Aside from shorter damage windows, and the forced damage from deerclops, the fights are just longer.

The issue I have with these bosses is that their fights are extremely scripted.  They can be fun the first few times, but by nature they are repetitive because the fights are the same.  Even without planar I'm just dodging behind bearger, then dodging his butt plop, then running back in and attacking a few times.  Repeat.

The issue I have with planar is that it is exactly what Klei said they were trying to avoid - it is power scaling.  Everything after opening rifts wants you to have planar equipment, AND the equips are just so OP they are better than anything else.  More damage, more perks, repair kits, ez mats.  And when we get the last of this content, and it is cleared easily on day1 b/c its a scripted fight then what?  planar2...  

Edited March 5 by Yuuko

[Faintly Macabre]

3 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Sounds fun and uncompromising, yeah?

No.

3 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Large storage chests OP

Base storage management in this game is not a challenge. It's a chore. There's nothing challenging about it. Please go kill CC and then come back and talk to us about challenges.

[Swiyss]

12 minutes ago, Yuuko said:

I did.

BS plants were the same, just longer.  Deerclops not using planar or fire was longer and had forced damage from his frost aura.  The toggle for them is really fire, not planar.  Bearger is even more repetitive without planar.  It didn't really change the fight much, just less opportunity for damage between the butt plops, and the butt plops were endless.  His rapid slash and butt dash attacks are horrible, and mostly serve as a punishment for not following the very strict script of fighting him.  Kite wrong, get punished.  Do it right, ez fight.  The challenge of the Varg fight is the ads whether its regular varg or zombie.  Distract them with some caged food, and fight the Varg as normal.  Not getting the stun wasn't much of an issue, just make sure you're kiting the right way around him so you dodge when it does lunar flames.  Not getting the stun made this a bit more fun, but not more difficult.  The stuns definitely suck for these, but worse are the lengths Bearger goes to anti-cheese the thing...

Fighting them all with and without planar (or fire for Deerclops) I didn't feel the experience was any better.  Aside from shorter damage windows, and the forced damage from deerclops, the fights are just longer.

The issue I have with these bosses is that their fights are extremely scripted.  They can be fun the first few times, but by nature they are repetitive because the fights are the same.  Even without planar I'm just dodging behind bearger, then dodging his butt plop, then running back in and attacking a few times.  Repeat.

The issue I have with planar is that it is exactly what Klei said they were trying to avoid - it is power scaling.  Everything after opening rifts wants you to have planar equipment, AND the equips are just so OP they are better than anything else.  More damage, more perks, repair kits, ez mats.  And when we get the last of this content, and it is cleared easily on day1 b/c its a scripted fight then what?  planar2...  

I understand your view on the fights, there is not much you can do except fight it regularly. I understand that being fun but still boring, I know this exact feeling.

But the thing that I don't understand is how his stun can be scripted. You can shoot them with a howlitzer, a fire staff and/or both typed of planar, that being shadow and lunar. I know that the script still IS there, but aside from planar damage, there is not much to add.

Now, if the problem is not only ON THEM, but structural, then I can totally see your issue, 100%. Dragonfly has an intended way of removing her enraged phase, which is by putting her do sleep, but there are lots of creative ways of making her sleep. I know that you might argue they aren't creative, but I think they still could be. And.. these new bosses and planar damage thing is all new, we 'might' get new ways of dealing planar damage, we also got the staff, bombs and etc.. bold to assume they are not creative. We are also getting planar damage outside of these items with the skill trees also, which is another thing to bump.

If the problem if the script, and these issues come with development, then you have to agree with me on my takes since they are literally an explanation of these going even further reaching other areas of the game. Something that is fundamental to dst, and a signature design from the main developer of the game, so criticizing it negatively might be very wrongheaded, still we are being constructive.

I propose maybe an overview of these? Maybe the reason dst is not so popular come to these topics? Maybe not. We cannot know if it is also a mix of things in a bag and this one in particular is putting heavy weight to it. Idk.

But what I know is that I don't got or can't still process how an addition like my suggestions here may fall or be flawed. I can be more specific with ideas too.

Edit. I am having a hard time understanding your issue with planar damage, I really cannot understand. For me, the intention is there and executed well, they wanted a way to not disrupt old content with more damage, and also encourage a "new" set of knowledge that would add progression in the means of content.

[Yuuko]

4 hours ago, Swiyss said:

But the thing that I don't understand is how his stun can be scripted. You can shoot them with a howlitzer, a fire staff and/or both typed of planar, that being shadow and lunar. I know that the script still IS there, but aside from planar damage, there is not much to add.

I'm not sure I get what you mean here.

When I say the fights are scripted, I mean they have very specific action requirements and very little flexibility to approach them differently.  If you dodge by walking away from zombear it can punish you with its muli-attack, so you must always dodge behind it.  When it does the butt plop you must dodge out of the way, then come back in with planar to get the stun.  It must be a planar weapon to get the stun, and it can be a scythe, BS sword, the staff, or howlitzer to get that stun but they are all serving the same purpose.  You dodge the butt plop, hit with planar, get stun for 5 seconds, and go back to dodging claw attacks behind him.

Compare this to Klaus where I can react to spells by walking away for a slower but safer fight, or cross between him and his deer for more damage up time, or inflict status on the deer to negate their spells or set up some obstructions to hold the deer away from him enough to cancel the spells without summoning rage klaus.  They are all correct answers, and its up to me how I want to approach it.

4 hours ago, Swiyss said:

Now, if the problem is not only ON THEM, but structural, then I can totally see your issue, 100%. Dragonfly has an intended way of removing her enraged phase,

Removing the rage mode with pan flute is definitely intended, but it isn't the "official way."  There are several ways to handle the rage mode, and all of them are intended - b/c they all exist within the code to be played and used.  You can freeze or sleep her before the last lavae dies and she will never enter rage mode, or just fight through it!

Why is it important that you can by-pass her even entering rage mode?  b/c she will instantly dry if she does.  If we can prevent her from entering rage mode the whole fight, then we can keep her wet.  This lets us use the full electric damage boost against her, which can allow you to easily get a second scale - and possibly a second stun - as solo Warly.

There are also different strategies for dealing with lavae, like different wall setups, ice staves, damage, etc.

This is variance.  Like how you actually fight her is different, not just "use this sword, or that sword," and especially not "use anti-dragonfly sword."

4 hours ago, Swiyss said:

Edit. I am having a hard time understanding your issue with planar damage, I really cannot understand. For me, the intention is there and executed well, they wanted a way to not disrupt old content with more damage, and also encourage a "new" set of knowledge that would add progression in the means of content.

Once you show off "bigger number" as a feature you've set a standard for expectations: new thing = bigger number.  Inevitably you'll need to return and make numbers bigger again...

We already saw this.  When BS gear first dropped its main feature was planar damage type.  What is planar damage?  Its a big damage boost against  all rift content.  This set a precedence that we were supposed to get bigger damage, so what did they do when the weapon felt weak?  They gave it even more damage lol.  You can say "the intention.. is not to disrupt old content" but that is factually incorrect.  Even against non-planar content the planar weapons beat out the dark sword, quickly becoming the only weapons you use.

The closest thing I've seen to an argument about planar even doing anything is reducing armor values to restore some sense of risk... BUT does it?  You can still use bone armor.

 

Numbers just aren't interesting, play styles and niche opportunities are.  Electric vs wet and thul club vs stationary gave you a fun thing to do.  Just giving you 100 damage a hit doesn't change anything in what you're actually doing.

Its why my first feedback of planar is "If we're going to get planar type, why don't we get other types too?"  b/c then we'd at least have different types and interactions between them rather than normal vs planar (or bad post rift vs the only thing you'll use once you get it.)

Edited March 5 by Yuuko

[prettynuggets]

6 hours ago, Swiyss said:

Then pinpoint exactly what is toxic.

Back up your argument, don't state things without evidences.

even the quoted in my replied show how u mostly talk about ur opinion in ridicule way 
 

6 hours ago, Swiyss said:

My real real concern is about dragonfly chests. What are Klei's plan for them?

uhh bro there is hundreds more item that un-stackable and need to be placed somewhere right ? 
they said they wont change scaled chest but it still serve good purpose for 12 slotted chest 

Edited March 5 by prettynuggets

[Popian]

5 minutes ago, Yuuko said:

When I say the fights are scripted, I mean they have very specific action requirements and very little flexibility to approach them differently.  You must dodge zombearger's attack by moving behind it, otherwise it can punish you with its muli-attack.  So you must always dodge behind it.

This isn't exactly true, you can do a 2 hit kite if you aren't comfortable with the precision involved with dodging after getting behind it. There are other ways to deal with Crystal Deerclops frenzy as well depending on your relative distance, whether you're using Bone Armors, and whether it's burning.

The thing about the bosses is that they are responding to what the player is doing so if you do the same inputs you generally get the same results one on one, almost like any other boss.

[mykenception]

say,

if the tall chest needs enlightened shards, would it still be too op?

[Maxil20]

1 minute ago, mykenception said:

if the tall chest needs enlightened shards, would it still be too op?

I was half joking with my friends one evening if the materials needed to make it required deconstructing a krampus sack since a lot of characters imply its much bigger on the inside than out

[Jakepeng99]

6 hours ago, Swiyss said:

Petition to STOP NEW CONTENT when this arc is finished so we can focus more on Reap What You Sow rather than Moon Quay Island and basically just doing the same mistake.

Why do you not want moon quay to be fixed and updated? Also only thing reap what you sow needs is stat changes. Thinge like eggplants are so useless, they have 0 niche and potatoes offer the exact same benifits and nutrition.

[IAmAFurrz]

Another day, another doom and gloom post on klei forums

[Yuuko]

52 minutes ago, Popian said:

This isn't exactly true, you can do a 2 hit kite if you aren't comfortable with the precision involved with dodging after getting behind it.

Until it does multi-hit attack.

But feel free to inspire me by posting all of the different ways in which you can handle these fights?

[mykenception]

On 3/4/2024 at 8:52 AM, Copyafriend said:

I would personally, be angry if it was changed without my permission, I should be asked, but that's a separate point

I too would feel mad with this since it would basically mean that the game doesn't trust us enough to learn and push through the challenge ourselves. If a choice to change difficulty is present, it should be our choice and shouldn't be automated

[Swiyss]

4 hours ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Why do you not want moon quay to be fixed and updated? Also only thing reap what you sow needs is stat changes. Thinge like eggplants are so useless, they have 0 niche and potatoes offer the exact same benifits and nutrition.

I was just using it as an example, I too want the moon quay to be bigger and better. My take was that we should first fix existing things before adding more AFTER the arc is over, or, try atleast to release updates that do not disrupt too much the game balance just because it isn't finished yet.

[NoodlemanNed]

My hot take for today is that character downsides do not make the game fun. They might change how you play the first time you try a character but once those downsides become a norm all it does is limit what you can do without providing any challenge at all.

I feel like warly is a good example of this. Many people praise his downside for turning him into such a unique character, which is certainly true if its your first time as the character, because now instead of living off 1 singular dish, youre forced to live off 2 or even more dishes. Figuring out which handful of foods you will be living off of is a fun time, but unfortunately you will eventually learn what works, and at that point the downside doesnt offer anything in terms of variety.

Having downsides make up half of a character's kit isnt the best way to keep the game hard, especially if some of the most praised downsides can be accomplished through setting self imposed restrictions. If theyre ever going to revisit downsides all i can hope is that they dont add things like "cant use this item" or "does less damage" as these dont offer anything unique. There are ways to make the game more difficult without killing off playstyle variety, and im happy that klei is actually trying to work towards this despite how many people whine about it.

 

[arubaro]

18 minutes ago, NoodlemanNed said:

My hot take for today is that character downsides do not make the game fun. They might change how you play the first time you try a character but once those downsides become a norm all it does is limit what you can do without providing any challenge at all.

I feel like warly is a good example of this. Many people praise his downside for turning him into such a unique character, which is certainly true if its your first time as the character, because now instead of living off 1 singular dish, youre forced to live off 2 or even more dishes. Figuring out which handful of foods you will be living off of is a fun time, but unfortunately you will eventually learn what works, and at that point the downside doesnt offer anything in terms of variety.

Having downsides make up half of a character's kit isnt the best way to keep the game hard, especially if some of the most praised downsides can be accomplished through setting self imposed restrictions. If theyre ever going to revisit downsides all i can hope is that they dont add things like "cant use this item" or "does less damage" as these dont offer anything unique. There are ways to make the game more difficult without killing off playstyle variety, and im happy that klei is actually trying to work towards this despite how many people whine about it.

 

That is just your opinion and taste so, if you dont like downsides, you can play 2/3 of the character pool but wornwood and warly does change my way of playing. Maybe not during 100% of the time but enough to make me return to them instead of playing other characters that i find boring

I prefer that than 4727161 perks and no downsides

But the good thing is that we have a wide character pool so we dont have to force our taste over the entire pool

[cropo]

On 3/3/2024 at 6:00 PM, . . . said:

Back in the original Don't Starve the characters actually felt balanced with characters perk(s) being 50% of their character and con(s) being the other 50%,

I always strongly disagree with this take. Characters in Singleplayer are downright counter-intuitive with their benefits and perks.

 

Willow has one of the BIGGEST drawbacks and one of the weakest upsides if you don't use glitches.

WX-78 is absolutely insane in any DLC map with immunity to poison, infinite overcharge in Hamlet, and nearly infinite gears in Shipwrecked.

Wolfgang's damage bonus is so absurd with the lower health of Singleplayer, with one of the most trivial downsides in the game.

Warly is almost harder to play than Wes. With Wes, you can slam meatballs all day, Warly can only eat crock-pot dishes and will get far less effectiveness when eating the same one. His personal dishes are basically not worth making, requiring obscure ingredients for a vastly inferior return.

Wagstaff has one of the worst downsides in the game, obscuring the players vision while playing, and his upsides are gimmicky little silly things that don't offer much value besides his thumper.

Woodie makes absolutely no sense, he has superior chopping ability but can't use it without turning into werebeaver, which requires him to constantly eat the materials he cuts to maintain and he drops all his stuff, making the process of retrieving them cause a massive, MASSIVE net-loss in time-saved for his supposed chopping perk. Wilba outclasses him badly, able to use her inventory while transformed, goes way faster, regenerates health, and players can more easily keep the transformation going without having to run around and eat logs.

Maxwell has an entire section of his summons that are effectively useless at anything, while the other half outcompete supposed gathering characters.

Abigail isn't good in Singleplayer, even less so in the DLC's, having only one or two things she can really do. DST made her a genuine companion and made her playstyle make more sense, in Singleplayer she's just a weaker Wilson with less sanity drain. The change in DST made her unique character traits far more apparent and a staple of her playstyle.

Walani is kind of a joke, with a super low-tier surfboard that gets outclassed almost instantly, is too dangerous to use for anything serious, has both a sanity upside and downside that make passive restoration more annoying, and gets hungry faster for some reason? Like, why? With Wolfgang, you get a MASSIVE damage boost and speed boost, with Walani you get...a surfboard that's better than a log raft? The balance doesn't make any sense!

Don't even get me started on Wilbur. His speed upside cannot be used on boats...WHY?!? He is from Shipwrecked! That mode is spent on water for a significant portion of time! Which means he permanently has a movespeed PENALTY on boats, in the mode that he was made for! Kiting is much harder with him, and monkeys are some of the worst minions ever, they don't even do anything useful most of the time. He can't even befriend Splemunkeys! But Wilba can befriend pigs in other DLC's? Why?!?

Woodlegs suffers the same issue Walani does, his boat is just too easily outclassed. It can't have the iron wind attached to it, canons are very niche in usability. Like sure, you can kill jelly fish with it...or you can just melee them and eat it to heal the exact same health you lost hitting it. He can spawn chests with his hat. A constant sanity downside on land in exchange for a crappy boat and spawning treasure chests, that's not really a fair trade? 

Wilba is Woodie with none of his downsides. Woodie can die in wereform and revive the next day, that's pretty much the only thing he has against Wilba. She gets a bunch of free crap just walking around in Hamlet, and literally has an item that stops her ''downside'' from activating, and can go to town on any city without retaliation from pig guards. Want to tear down an entire city to replant all the shops next to your slanty shanty? Wilba can do it easily. What is her downside? She loses sanity a little faster? Barely matters at all.She is 40% faster than werebeaver, does fresh hambat damage, and heals every second. How is this balanced at all?

Wickerbottom, like WX and Wolfgang, don't really need to be expanded on further. She doesn't have ''downsides'' she has extremely minor inconveniences in exchange for some of the most broken stuff imaginable while characters like Willow have some of the most crippling downsides for some of the worst upsides imaginable.

Webber's only ''downside'' is that pigs attack him. Other than this, he is Wilson on steroids, to add insult to injury he even has the ability to grow a beard like Wilson. He gets no penalties for monster meat, can produce it endlessly with spider wars, has more base-health than Wilson and completely disables an enemy type in the ruins labyrinth, some of the only end-game content Singleplayer had to offer. And in the most hypocritical irony imaginable, no one was complaining when they ''removed Webbers downside'' when Hamlet was released by letting him literally make a disguise that STOPS HIS DOWNSIDE.

Wigfrid is completely cracked, to the point players would make ''starvation'' runs where they don't eat anything at all because her self-healing is literally enough to go around and stay alive through starvation, and thanks to armor-stacking she is even more unkillable than she is in DST.

You could possibly argue Wormwood is a character who sticks to his downsides and upsides, he's okay if you can't deal with snaptooth mobs in Hamlet but he suffers one of the biggest downsides of any character in the entire list with incredibly restrictive healing.  Farming in Singleplayer is almost exclusively done to mass-produce dragonpies, which he can't even use to heal, and his fire disadvantage is actually a big deal thanks to his already restrictive healing and how easy it is to catch fire if you want to collect charcoal.  When you look at all his perks compared to his downside, he just...isn't really worth picking unless you want to swap to him to mass-produce living logs for a megabase.

 

And then there's Wheeler, dear god, how can anyone say she is balanced? She has Walter's slingshot on crack that completely counters her only downside because you can store items inside of it, effectively making it free inventory space. She has more base speed, dodging I-frames, and even gets MORE speed with less items in her inventory. Her slide can be used for travel and combat, and she still has more HP than Maxwell, who trades his HP for the ability to cut trees and mine some rocks.

 

 

The characters in Singleplayer were nonsensical, unbalanced, broken, and desperately in need of reworks. There was no thematic consistency to any of them, characters are balanced differently with different standards for no reason. Sure, the reworks made them ''overpowered'', but they only did so because what they were before was completely broken in design.

I still can't believe players are whining about Woodie not having a downside, when his downside completely clashes with an entire section of the game for no good reason. How is having a few wereforms that are ''decent'' and a faster chopping speed worth the trade-off of having the endgame completely unplayable for him? 

 

Singleplayer is not this holy grail of a balanced game people want to make it out to be, even if we don't include the characters the game and it's DLC's were completely broken beyond any metric.  Did you guys know Shipwrecked has a weapon that deals 102 damage?  Even with Lunar scaling, that item completely outclasses any weapon ever conceived in DST!


As for Wortox, his disadvantage is actually worse than a ''faster hunger drain'' downside.  A base character loses 75 hunger a day, double that and it's 150. A single Meaty Stew defeats this.  Wortox needs 2 for the same effect, or needs to take constant sanity damage and kill more enemies to get souls.  Don't get me wrong, he's a good character, but his downside is far more noticeable than almost any other character that doesn't downright prevent you from using mechanics like Warly. And half effects from food are actually problematic since he needs double sanity foods to restore his sanity and double healing foods for the same effect as a normal character. Unless the boss has easily accessible minions to kill at a fast rate, that small batch of 20 souls that needs to be used for 3 separate things is going to start running out pretty quickly. His downside is actually far more impactful than some of the other downsides most characters used to have.

Edited March 5 by cropo

[grm9]

21 minutes ago, cropo said:

Maxwell, who trades his HP

why would you read someone's text about character balance if they think that max hp matters

Edited March 5 by grm9

[cropo]

Just now, grm9 said:

this implies that max hp matters, so opinion invalidated

I have never been defeated so badly like this before, you can't do this to me.

[The Starver]

1 hour ago, cropo said:

Did you guys know Shipwrecked has a weapon that deals 102 damage? 

Only if you charge it up outside of Hurricane Season.

[grm9]

4 minutes ago, The Starver said:

Only if you charge it up outside of Hurricane Season

trident deals 102 damage while on a boat