The game is turning into a mess. All what was once built is now being destroyed. We don't know what Klei's intention, mission and philosophy is anymore.

[Swiyss]

Here's a petition to remove the word "Uncompromising" from DST. The last gazillion additions to the game are ALL making the game easy.

Characters don't have downsides anymore (thanks to skill trees).

World features are getting easier and easier overtime, instead of ADDING new casual, creative, entertaining and fun properties to overcome those hard tasks.

Old gameplay mechanics and fundamental ds features not being adressed because of the addition of late game. And every single feature being added focus on late game.

I fear that some of yall don't even see this as issues anymore. Those are as CLEAR as glass issues.

Edit : this thread has turned into something very complex and rather difficult to blindly understand just by reading 1 or 2 posts. Unfortunately, currently I don't think about compiling everything since it would take me around 3 to 5 days to actually make a "tldr" or a resume, even a conclusion. And almost no one would probably read it, so why even bother. A new topic would be useless at this point.

So because of this, I encourage you to actually read everything, point by point, since it would make you develop a better understanting of everything yourself. It might be tedious and very long, but many many here have amazing comments and opinions. Feel free to lose all of this also if you want to I guess.

And please, do not discredit me just because of my approach. It is intensively shocking because it was how I felt when writing it. I have amazing opinions and ideas here too.

Edit 2: the criticism here is only to bring these problems that I am having to a spotlight. I do not want to discourage discussions, so just don't be a jerk. My opinion might be very strong, so take it with a grain of salt as you wish.

I just think that, if we want the best game possible, we have to give honest feedback. I am sorry if some of you are offended. I want to give you guys a clear happy and respectful tone for further comments on this discussion.

Edited March 6 by Swiyss

[SSneaky]

Lost me at uncom... 

Wait what was I going to say, unfair?

Yeah let's go with that.

[Swiyss]

Klei need to adress this after this arc ends. And learn to never release unfinished updates ever again and simply "move on". They're spitting on our faces with the Wilson skillset thing.

[Mike23Ua]

Yeah, it’s too late. I had really high hopes that they would overhaul world Gen & general biome exploration, add new mobs that weren’t super end game focused.

I don’t understand what actually “changed” during their content design philosophy..

I mean okay for example the very first Return of Them update Turn of Tides was awesome, it added an explorable ocean, and while that was and still is… mostly Empty, the First ROT update also added the Lunar Island.

Which has its own set of cute (and not so cute..) unique mobs, resources and the enlightened status effect.

But no update since then except maybe Forgotten Knowledges… has been that big.

I won’t discredit the forgotten knowledge update because atleast it did have both the lunar grotto, and the sealed archives.

But every other update has just felt small compared to Turn of Tides & Forgotten Knowledges.

Even Curse of Moon Quay was a major letdown for me due to how incredibly tiny the biome actually is..

The games so called “Difficulty” comes from player skill level and knowledge of the game..

But having more mobs with interesting unique attacks that aren’t tied to some Raid Boss would be nice too..

I just don’t understand how we went from Turn of Tides (arguably the best update Klei had done for the game..) to what we’re getting NOW

(Bite-Sized Islands or set pieces with a boss on it)

Is it.. “Wrong” of me to want and expect more content the size and scope of Turn of Tides? (The very first ROT update that added lunar island)

[goblinball]

I bet you haven’t tried to introduce DST to friends recently. I have, and they died a lot (and I died some of those times, too, I’ve gotten a bit rusty at DST nowadays)

the game’s easy for you, but still extremely challenging for a lot of people, and I mean a lot.

20 minutes ago, Swiyss said:

And every single feature being added focus on late game.

This isn’t even true, everything shown off in the recent klei stream was pre-rifts content.

Edited March 3 by goblinball

[SSneaky]

4 minutes ago, Swiyss said:

And learn to never release unfinished updates ever again

Which isn't really possible to make unless they're mega slow down on making content that will have ZERO feedback by the players at large.

Theres a reason why they release updates how they do that you uncompromis- I mean Unfair DST junkies don't seem to be able to grasp.

[Swiyss]

5 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Yeah, it’s too late. I had really high hopes that they would overhaul world Gen & general biome exploration, add new mobs that weren’t super end game focused.

I don’t understand what actually “changed” during their content design philosophy..

I mean okay for example the very first Return of Them update Turn of Tides was awesome, it added an explorable ocean, and while that was and still is… mostly Empty, the First ROT update also added the Lunar Island.

Which has its own set of cute (and not so cute..) unique mobs, resources and the enlightened status effect.

But no update since then except maybe Forgotten Knowledges… has been that big.

I won’t discredit the forgotten knowledge update because atleast it did have both the lunar grotto, and the sealed archives.

But every other update has just felt small compared to Turn of Tides & Forgotten Knowledges.

Even Curse of Moon Quay was a major letdown for me due to how incredibly tiny the biome actually is..

The games so called “Difficulty” comes from player skill level and knowledge of the game..

But having more mobs with interesting unique attacks that aren’t tied to some Raid Boss would be nice too..

I just don’t understand how we went from Turn of Tides (arguably the best update Klei had done for the game..) to what we’re getting NOW

(Bite-Sized Islands or set pieces with a boss on it)

Is it.. “Wrong” of me to want and expect more content the size and scope of Turn of Tides? (The very first ROT update that added lunar island)

The reality is that, this arc is THE WORST arc ever because of how skill trees were implemented. They actually require WAAAAY more time to develop than what hey initially thought. 

I am not "trashing" on klei here guys. I am just questioning their bandaids for these issues. FIX THEM. Put them in a spotlight and actually develop them more. Don't hide them or go over it.

Modders add infinite chest > eww that doesn't even look like dst anymore. Plus ALL colective 6 years of criticism for these mods.

Klei adds infinite chest > slay queen, yeah good job. Amazing wow! Woo-ooooo Yippie hippie yay yo mayonaise.

5 minutes ago, goblinball said:

I bet you haven’t tried to introduce DST to friends anytime soon. I have, and they die a lot (and I die some of those times, too, I’ve gotten a bit rusty at DST nowadays)

the game’s easy for you, but still extremely challenging for a lot of people, and I mean a lot.

This isn’t even true, everything shown off in the recent klei stream was pre-rifts content.

They want to make the games biome feel better, and environment actually affecting things.

Then proceeded to add lunar hail dust and acid rain making mushroom caps spoiled. That feature is so useless and not funny, it would be 10 thousand times better if they made a variant mushroom tree that drops a new item toxin that helps damage toadstool AND a new mob larvae fungus or something. Even the thing they ADDED feel badly implemented.

[SSneaky]

Just now, Swiyss said:

The reality is that, this arc is THE WORST arc ever because of how skill trees were implemented. They actually require WAAAAY more time to develop than what hey initially thought. 

I am not "trashing" on klei here guys. I am just questioning their bandaids for these issues. FIX THEM. Put them in a spotlight and actually develop them more. Don't hide them or go over it.

Modders add infinite chest > eww that doesn't even look like dst anymore. Plus ALL colective 6 years of criticism for these mods.

Klei adds infinite chest > slay queen, yeah good job. Amazing wow! Woo-ooooo Yippie hippie yay yo mayonaise.

Imo there just needs to be more skills in the skill trees, increasing opportunity cost.

In one of my "pretty much fully conceptualized video game that I have yet to seriously attempt making" (which I could best describe as DST but your a eepy little man who also needs to have fnaf knowledge.) My perk system would resemble more like hollow knight's charm system.

Though dst has set their own system in stone, which is, imo, alright But there needs to be more opportunity costs for picking the perks that you do (ESPECIALLY WITH WOLFGANG'S SKILLTREE)

[Swiyss]

7 minutes ago, SSneaky said:

Which isn't really possible to make unless they're mega slow down on making content that will have ZERO feedback by the players at large.

Theres a reason why they release updates how they do that you uncompromis- I mean Unfair DST junkies don't seem to be able to grasp.

Dude. Minecraft is a billion times bigger and their beta snapshots stay on for like a year at most. Everything added gets changed so much, and new things are marinated so well that every single update comes out polished and complete, even if some were not the best atleast they're refined enough. I know that they don't need to call people to play the game because of how massive it is, but atleast it works.

2 weeks of beta and 3 hotfixes with only major bug fixes is not an update, is a halfbaked one, like everyone's been saying.

[. . .]

26 minutes ago, Swiyss said:

Characters don't have downsides anymore (thanks to skill trees).

I can 100% agree with that.

As much as the skill trees are cool mechanically, it really is just making the characters better for no real reason. Back in Don't Starve (Alone) characters cons actually felt like they meant something because the perks were also less showy and smaller so it sort of felt balanced even if some characters cons didn't matter too much to a skilled player.

Lol I used to have a joke with my friends that mod characters are so OP and broken compared to the vanilla characters and now the vanilla characters are becoming more OP than a lot of mod characters thanks to the reworks + skills + whatever future thing will be taking the place of character stuff when the skills are all done lol

[SSneaky]

1 minute ago, Swiyss said:

Dude. Minecraft is a billion times bigger and their beta snapshots stay on for like a year at most. Everything added gets changed so much, and new things are marinated so well that every single update comes out polished and complete, even if some were not the best atleast they're refined enough. I know that they don't need to call people to play the game because of how massive it is, but atleast it works.

2 weeks of beta and 3 hotfixes with only major bug fixes is not an update, is a halfbaked one, like everyone's been saying.

Bold to assume that minecraft updates are ever complete. (Caves and cliffs lol)

[goblinball]

6 minutes ago, Swiyss said:

Then proceeded to add lunar hail dust and acid rain making mushroom caps spoiled. That feature is so useless and not funny, it would be 10 thousand times better if they made a variant mushroom tree that drops a new item toxin that helps damage toadstool AND a new mob larvae fungus or something. Even the thing they ADDED feel badly implemented.

They said they’re working on lunar hail and acid rain stuff, they’re not finished yet. I don’t see how your proposed idea would be any better than whatever ideas klei are cooking which we haven’t even seen yet.

[Swiyss]

Just now, SSneaky said:

Bold to assume that minecraft updates are ever complete. (Caves and cliffs lol)

See. You just prove my point, EVEN WITH A YEARS of a beta, it still wasn't perfect.

Just now, goblinball said:

They said they’re working on lunar hail and acid rain stuff, they’re not finished yet. I don’t see how your proposed idea would be any better than whatever ideas klei are cooking which we haven’t even seen yet.

My proposed idea is that they finished the ground work first before building the skyscraper.

They need to fix atleast 90% of issues and develop a game philosophy that doesn't contradict itself.

Atleast before the arc is done.

[Mike23Ua]

3 minutes ago, SSneaky said:

Which isn't really possible to make unless they're mega slow down on making content that will have ZERO feedback by the players at large.

Theres a reason why they release updates how they do that you uncompromis- I mean Unfair DST junkies don't seem to be able to grasp.

In a game full of options, it needs more options. And I’m going to keep saying that until the Klei devs take that motto to heart, or I get banned off these forums.

When you play a game like say 7 Days to Die, you can alter the “Behavior” of how the game plays, to avoid turning this into a massive TL:DR-

You could set zombie behavior to move very slowly but group up to make up for moving slowly, or not group up as much but run super fast like World War Z.

And DST is a game with a TON of toggle settings.. but for one reason or another, Klei doesn’t fully optimize those options.

For example I personally loved the original implementations of Wavey Jones, (spawning at higher sanity, more destructive to ripping out boat patches etc)  Pirate Monkey Raids & the Wonkey Curse (happening more frequently and your necklaces remaining stuck with you even through death)

But the forum voices cried these things were too hard, and maybe they were for some players, but there were actually people who enjoyed the original more “Uncompromising” versions.

And I think that’s something Klei hasn’t really looked at as a profitable avenue yet.

Instead of giving players the OPTION of the harder original implementations of these mechanics they instead opted to change them to be less harsh & difficult without any choice to revert back to before their nerfs.

Klei needed to at some point branch out their developers, and dedicate a group of players to designing content to be difficult, and then having a separate branch of developers to develop that same content to be easier..

or in the Shortest TL:DR I can post-

Original harder Moon Quay Content Vs the now Heavily Nerfed easier version.

[SSneaky]

1 minute ago, Swiyss said:

See. You just prove my point, EVEN WITH A YEARS of a beta, it still wasn't perfect.

... no I think You've just proved MY point.

Games that made to be updated usualy aren't able to be completely developed, unless you know, finished.

[Swiyss]

I've been calling these issues for months here in the forums and I don't even get feedback from klei. Can't they even type "no"? so that we can direct our focus on other areas? I made a thousand questions that weren't answered in the stream, and they simply hide behind the corner saying "we got no more questions, haha".

I beg for more said and set announcements like the wilson answer one. They said they won't change it, but didn't say why or what they think about it. Just.. "the torch is nice".

[SSneaky]

2 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Pirate Monkey Raids & the Wonkey Curse

Bad example to use In my argument that uncompromising = Unfair.

You kill monkeys = get stuck with annoying aaaa trinkets/turn into monkey.

You Don't Kill monkey = monkey kills you/ skeals yo sh--.

It's a loose loose, which is (fanfare) UNFAIR

[Swiyss]

8 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

But the forum voices cried these things were too hard, and maybe they were for some players, but there were actually people who enjoyed the original more “Uncompromising” versions

This Uncompromising philosophy SHOULD BE THE ONE. I do not care what anyone says, I cannot wrap my head around a system made for soft people who can't take a rock on their shoes. Imo Klei should NOT feed these complains of "make this item drop 10x more" "I want more damage" "This character downside is TOO detrimental" wth, it is a DOWNSIDE, A DOWNSIDE DOWNSIDE. Jesus christ.

Edited March 3 by Swiyss

[SSneaky]

6 minutes ago, Swiyss said:

don't even get feedback from klei

We-

This is another this, I WILL AGREE WITH YOU ON.

3 minutes ago, Swiyss said:

Klei should NOT feed these baby cries of "make this item drop 10x more" "I want more damage" "This character downside is TOO detrimental" wth, it is a DOWNSIDE, A DOWNSIDE DOWNSIDE. Jesus christ.

They, uhhhh, don't

If they did butter would be more common, willow would still be able to spam lunar fire, and Wes wouldn't have gained any new downsides.

[Mike23Ua]

Just now, SSneaky said:

Bad example to use In my argument that uncompromising = Unfair.

You kill monkeys = get stuck with annoying aaaa trinkets/turn into monkey.

You Don't Kill monkey = monkey kills you/ skeals yo sh--.

It's a loose loose, which is (fanfare) UNFAIR

Aren’t RogueLites/likes supposed to have unfair mechanics in them? And believe it or not.. some people are actually INTO THAT.

The thing here though is that Klei is trying to design their entire game around a One-Size fits all pair of Gloves. And they aren’t even giving players the OPTION for anything else.

One of my more recent beefs with this was adding new weather effects intended to destroy structures and the like, but at the same time.. adding permanent solutions to removing those hazards. Its like giving someone a jigsaw puzzle that hasn’t even been cut into playable parts yet, why bother when the solution is already staring you in the face right?

But it shouldn’t be like this, and Klei COULD change it if they wanted to, they have this lovely little menu of various toggles and settings to tune many features of the game… so why are they Under-Using these menus?!

It drives me INSANE & like with the upcoming beta making rot now wash away in rain, there are people actually asking for a world toggle to make rot NOT wash away in rain.

And I’ll bet you 25,000$ that we will get THAT…

But we will not be getting a setting to revert Pirate Raids and Wonkeys Curse back to the Original Harder versions.

(I don’t have 25,000$ but you get the point.)

[Swiyss]

3 hours ago, SSneaky said:

We-

This is another this, I WILL AGREE WITH YOU ON.

I understand that saying too much can make them contradict themselves, but not setting these grounds first will just result in the same issue.

Design an intention, and say it for the public. Roadmaps, the start of an arc, big announcements. Instead, we got blank fillers and more issues and problems and design, gameplay questions than answers.

Just, design a mission for the arc, and count feedback that discourages their intention. Let people question the intentions first (because feedback should be heard and discussed) and analyze the data and systems, to then further understand what we want to achieve.

If they don't state their intention, how can I direct my feedback? I keep saying a billion things, discussing a billion topics, to not get any idea of what is going on.

3 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Aren’t RogueLites/likes supposed to have unfair mechanics in them? And believe it or not.. some people are actually INTO THAT

Yes.

Edited March 3 by Swiyss

[SSneaky]

2 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Aren’t RogueLites/likes supposed to have unfair mechanics in them? And believe it or not.. some people are actually INTO THAT.

The thing here though is that Klei is trying to design their entire game around a One-Size fits all pair of Gloves. And they aren’t even giving players the OPTION for anything else.

One of my more recent beefs with this was adding new weather effects intended to destroy structures and the like, but at the same time.. adding permanent solutions to removing those hazards. Its like giving someone a jigsaw puzzle that hasn’t even been cut into playable parts yet, why bother when the solution is already staring you in the face right?

But it shouldn’t be like this, and Klei COULD change it if they wanted to, they have this lovely little menu of various toggles and settings to tune many features of the game… so why are they Under-Using these menus?!

It drives me INSANE & like with the upcoming beta making rot now wash away in rain, there are people actually asking for a world toggle to make rot NOT wash away in rain.

And I’ll bet you 25,000$ that we will get THAT…

But we will not be getting a setting to revert Pirate Raids and Wonkeys Curse back to the Original Harder versions.

(I don’t have 25,000$ but you get the point.)

Or the ability to remove the dumb trinkets.

Also its midnight  I'ma sleeb

[Swiyss]

3 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

of my more recent beefs with this was adding new weather effects intended to destroy structures and the like, but at the same time.. adding permanent solutions to removing those hazards. Its like giving someone a jigsaw puzzle that hasn’t even been cut into playable parts yet, why bother when the solution is already staring you in the face right

YES. And I actually talked about this in a different topic to only get 0 responses from anyone and not question anything.

Deerclops gives you eye that negates spring BEFORE EVEN IT BEGINS. The meese geese feather helps in summer BEFORE IT BEGINS TOO.

Brightshade gear can be acquired before fighting the 3 lunar bosses, making the idea that fighting those bosses WITHOUT the gear itself useless. Throwing the planar mechanics in the trash anyway cause no one is going to use it. Heck, the bs stuff came BEFORE the update even was announced or we knew anything about it. 

I am completely against the addition of these infinite chests, it (again) ruins completely the purpose of us suffering for AGES with regular chests and finding out mechanics and strategies to overcome it. Fighting dfly constantly for 3 more slots. Now we got 198w728289w9929288282828929294995968587627178 slots. Jesus, seriously, this is to make anyone go crazy.

Klei is all over the place, again, I don't wanna spread hateful comments or simple hate ideas, I am giving my reasons as to why I dislike the FEATURES, not the team.

5 minutes ago, Swiyss said:

Deerclops gives you eye that negates spring BEFORE EVEN IT BEGINS. The meese geese feather helps in summer BEFORE IT BEGINS TOO

Back to this. I cannot stress enough how people has been asking, screaming and shouting for more uses to the underused rain and insulation gears. Instead they made a way to call deerclops and farm him, making EVERYONE use the eyebrella. Now it is EVEN easier.

See, the thing is, ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL the problems that I hear in this entire forum can be tracked to certain things, and when I present these CORE issues, I get 0 feedback to discuss it further. All issues can be tracked, and the fundamentals need to adjust to that, so many many things can become better.

I said it to myself when the skill trees came out for wilson, that this was a PERFECT DESIGN for the current main issues we had. And yet it only created MORE problems as opposed to fix them, because of the rapid implementation of them. Before, we had 1 beta only for a single character rework, now we got even more difficult and complex systems for 3 Survivors at ONCE. How can the team not get crazy too? They are working their brains off, and yet nothing seems to keep the lions quiet. Nothing quiet the voices of the deceased forum people that quit.

[Mike23Ua]

I disagree with the op though, the game is not too easy, I still die.. I still die a lot- especially when attempting to fight bosses.. the other day I even died in endless lightning strikes cause I couldn’t build anything to save myself in time with lol..

So the game isn’t “Easy” there just isn’t enough to actually “Do”

And it’s hard to explain that, but like in Solo DS and it’s two DLCs, it felt much harder to build up a base and start establishing myself in the game world then it does in DST.

Like just stepping foot into a hamlet temple you could’ve instantly stepped on a floor trap and took a bit of Health damage.

in Traditional- Unfair RogueLite/Like Fashion.

You could’ve been low on wood and needed to chop down a tree just to fuel your campfire for the night but then THIS happens so you spend your time battling this guy with a dying campfire light.

Theres still hope Klei can save DST and make it interesting again, as long as they’re still doing updates for the game.. 

some players don’t want RNG mob encounters, some do.

Why is there no toggle to choose??

chance of scorpion None/Low/Moderate/High/Random.

Klei literally would make both the players who want things like this AND the players who don’t want things like this happy.

 

[Swiyss]

I see the TEAMs intention on some of these problems, they Know some of these issues, they understand the game, but are contradicting themselves too much lately. The way their doings get overwritten by people who gives feedback, but don't understand fully the game. Some even started playing only 3 years ago and comment on how hard it is to achieve perfect creative world styled infinite godlike godmodes. They want 0% effort and 100% rewards. QUESTION THEM. discuss. And change their IDEAS.

Set the stage, set the mark. Set the stone, aim our guns klei.

7 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

disagree with the op though, the game is not too easy, I still die

That is not what I meant. I will change title.

Edited March 3 by Swiyss