The game is turning into a mess. All what was once built is now being destroyed. We don't know what Klei's intention, mission and philosophy is anymore.

[The Starver]

Just now, grm9 said:

trident deals 102 damage while on a boat

Oops. Stoopid uv mee.

[Yuuko]

2 hours ago, NoodlemanNed said:

My hot take for today is that character downsides do not make the game fun. They might change how you play the first time you try a character but once those downsides become a norm all it does is limit what you can do without providing any challenge at all.

I feel like warly is a good example of this. Many people praise his downside for turning him into such a unique character, which is certainly true if its your first time as the character, because now instead of living off 1 singular dish, youre forced to live off 2 or even more dishes. Figuring out which handful of foods you will be living off of is a fun time, but unfortunately you will eventually learn what works, and at that point the downside doesnt offer anything in terms of variety.

Having downsides make up half of a character's kit isnt the best way to keep the game hard, especially if some of the most praised downsides can be accomplished through setting self imposed restrictions. If theyre ever going to revisit downsides all i can hope is that they dont add things like "cant use this item" or "does less damage" as these dont offer anything unique. There are ways to make the game more difficult without killing off playstyle variety, and im happy that klei is actually trying to work towards this despite how many people whine about it.

 

idk about this...  When I play Warly my play definitely involves working around his down side.  The first few days running around can be a bit of a scramble to get the right ingredients together, especially if you're also trying to hit up some early boss fights or ruins clear.  When I'm setting up my base I definitely want to move some tall birds over, something I could do for other characters but don't really need to.  Sanity for everyone else is green caps or cactus, but for Warly its a tam-o.

I don't think the effects of Warly's downside really go away as I play him.

I do think its important downsides are designed to be played through rather than avoided, which means they cannot be too detrimental.  It should also fit well thematically.  I don't think I'd say any character's downsides are really that great right now, but it is something I think Klei should explore.

[mykenception]

22 minutes ago, grm9 said:

trident deals 102 damage while on a boat

DST Strident Trident only does 68 damage at most when on a boat

[cropo]

1 hour ago, The Starver said:

Only if you charge it up outside of Hurricane Season.

You can use it in Winter in RoG where it doesn't set anything on fire, warms the player, emits light, and does 102 damage.

 

It also has 375 uses, beating the Thulecite club after its durability was buffed twice.

 

Get some coffee, wear a magi and a shark hat and like 2 of these spears and DECIMATE the ruins. Nothing will be able to even react with their full aggro animation before you just delete them off the face of the planet.

 

Hell, get obsidian armor which gives you fire immunity(making Willow even more obsolete) and a decent helm and use the fire spear and just face-tank Dragonfly, it can't win, you will decimate it. It's baby larva will watch in horror as you literally kill a flaming mosquito with fire.

Edited March 5 by cropo

[Jakepeng99]

3 hours ago, NoodlemanNed said:

My hot take for today is that character downsides do not make the game fun. They might change how you play the first time you try a character but once those downsides become a norm all it does is limit what you can do without providing any challenge at all.

All of wormwood's perks that cost health would be busted op and much less interesting without his health downsides.

Wortoxes downsides encourage a life of soul harvesting and eating. Everyone would rarely eats souls otherwise.

Wendy's encourages fighting with Abigail.

Walter has a new sainity system with its perks and disadvantages, which makes dealing with sainity much different.

Wigfrid only eating meat indirectly puts you into a fighting playstyle to use her combat abilities.

 

Ect ect but i kinda agree with you on Warly to an extent.

 

51 minutes ago, grm9 said:

trident deals 102 damage while on a boat

This is misinformation. It only does 68 on a boat. Its right click only does 85.

[grm9]

2 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

This is misinformation. It only does 68 on a boat. Its right click only does 85

i was talking about SW trident

[Jakepeng99]

3 hours ago, NoodlemanNed said:

the most praised downsides can be accomplished through setting self imposed restrictions.

I mean, they cant. The best downsides work in tandom with their upsides, and either work with them or against them. You cant self impose Wortox's downsides, and self imposing Warly's would be too. Also self imposed restrictions being a solution is not good.

3 minutes ago, grm9 said:

i was talking about SW trident

Wait it has a trident? Oh sorry for misunderstanding.

[SSneaky]

1 hour ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Wait it has a trident? Oh sorry for misunderstanding.

Trident - Don't Starve Wiki

[Swiyss]

Can we not use hamlet or sw as arguments here?

Sure it is kinda the same game, but I am avoiding using arguments about specific things or mechanics that don't exist outside of dsT.

Original DS is still inside dst.

Sure you can say this design for dlcs is not great or say that they weren't perfect. But since then I never felt like they were that horrible downsides since they also had pretty great upsides, sure it wasn't perfect, but atleast it made playing other characters feel different. 

The main point of having downsides is this, a different playstyle. That is why wormwood and wanda are such amazing and satisfying characters to play as, they give you a nice sense of reward for overcoming their issues. 

That is why I was kinda against that photosynthesis buff. People just want BUFF BUFF BUFF, FUN FUN FUN. Constant stimulation of their systems, fortnite battle royale explosions and fast paced action. Dst is a mix of situations, and experiencing them at every right time is great.

Frustration from not having knowledge, anger from dying, motivation to surpass these issues, boredom from sailing, happiness from a whooooole bunch of things and etc.. 

[Faintly Macabre]

54 minutes ago, Swiyss said:

That is why I was kinda against that photosynthesis buff. People just want BUFF BUFF BUFF, FUN FUN FUN. Constant stimulation of their systems, fortnite battle royale explosions and fast paced action.

They buffed it because it's completely useless as it currently exists. It'll probably still be useless after buffing. This has nothing to do with constant stimulation or Fortnite or any of the other ridiculous bogey monsters you people set up. Stop worrying so much about how other people have fun.

[Swiyss]

17 minutes ago, Faintly Macabre said:

They buffed it because it's completely useless as it currently exists

First of all, this is a completely false statement, and think you're getting away with it is ridiculous.

For me, someone who doesn't really take much damage while fighting, being 137 to then 150 in a day DID impact the game, and by a lot actually.

If you're fighting a boss, it can SAVE you from dying if you get low, and it even heals at dusk and night if you have a star next. The thing was giving me way more than I needed healing ever before the skill tree was added. Just because it didn't happened to you, doesn't mean you can act as a fact like that.

[Mike23Ua]

Why are we not allowed to discuss shipwrecked & hamlet? A good majority of the newer updates Klei have been adding to DST have been directly pulled from those expansions albeit tweaked just a bit & changed to be unique to DST- but their general animations and functions work the same as they did in those expansion dlcs.

such as large tree canopy being the same animation from hamlet jungles, etc..

[Swiyss]

It was a big impact, it felt like it didn't for some, but the reality is that, when rushing the game, sometimes you simply don't bother healing more than 70 or 80 hp because it is not lethal, so it stacks with time.

SURE they can buff it, ok. But there was no reason to in my experience.

1 minute ago, Mike23Ua said:

Why are we not allowed to discuss shipwrecked & hamlet? A good majority of the newer updates Klei have been adding to DST have been directly pulled from those expansions albeit tweaked just a bit & changed to be unique to DST- but their general animations and functions work the same as they did in those expansion dlcs.

such as large tree canopy being the same animation from hamlet jungles, etc..

Discuss? Yes.

Use it to argue about balance? Kinda not.

"Webber can use spiders to heal himself dude, that is why in Hamlet, he doesn't need to craft any healing items in battle".

 

That's an example btw. An analogy.

[Mike23Ua]

Speaking of Webber and spider healing, I’ve discovered a fun way to get easy cheap almost free heals with him.

Wait till a Spider Queen spawns, then use grass traps to catch her nurse spiders and leave the area.

Then when you want to be “healed” you force your two healing spiders to fight each other by first placing one on the ground, then fake attack the other (start to hit it but stop) this will tell the your second spider that you see the first spider as an enemy, then when they’re done attacking each other (healing you and themselves in the process) pick up the spider that’s being attacked first, and afterwards pick up the spider you told to attack him.

that’s all you gotta do, no Switcherdoodle cookies required.

Anyways just wanted to share that small tidbit of discovery  carry on with your conversation.

[Faintly Macabre]

4 minutes ago, Swiyss said:

snip

Why is it that the people who cry the loudest about how easy or casual or whatever the game is getting seem to be really casual players themselves? Most experienced players do not take that skill. I am utterly stunned at the idea of someone seriously bringing up that their dwarf star from their ruins-looted star caller's staff makes this talent better. If you've been to the ruins, you should have zero issues with health, and this skill is at the very best an incredibly mild convenience.

[prettynuggets]

1 hour ago, Swiyss said:

People just want BUFF BUFF BUFF, FUN FUN FUN.

well i guess most people play game to have fun .. im not sure if there a part of gaming community choose to game to suffer instead ? 

also that skill is just niche not really impactful. its nice to have it but didnt really contribute to survival most of the time u fight. especially for people that not like u, who are not "perfect kiting everything" they will be prepared with healing instead of relying with this one skill tree branch. 
 

[Mike23Ua]

22 minutes ago, prettynuggets said:

well i guess most people play game to have fun .. im not sure if there a part of gaming community choose to game to suffer instead ?
 

Except that there ARE people who enjoy suffering, and doesn’t want just fun buffs.. there’s an entire video gaming genre built specifically just for those type of gamers, and Klei aren’t strangers to this Genre because they create several games that belong into that category.

Take for example the game I was playing last night- Rogue Legacy: Everytime you die in that game you have to pick your next of kin to play as, but there is a strong catch, some of them will have really bizarre downsides- such as having dementia and seeing things that don’t really exist, or having dyslexia & words of text being jumbled & mixed up, or having vertigo so the game world is flipped upside down.

Believe it or not there are actually gamers out there who “enjoy” this type of suffering, and Klei is a gaming company that sort of.. specializes in it?

 

[arubaro]

1 hour ago, Faintly Macabre said:

They buffed it because it's completely useless as it currently exists. It'll probably still be useless after buffing. This has nothing to do with constant stimulation or Fortnite or any of the other ridiculous bogey monsters you people set up. Stop worrying so much about how other people have fun.

It wasnt op, made you summon critter for free and heal for free. Dst isnt a game where you fight all the time so you will save on healing items by just keep playing since you dont need to be full health after fighting the season's hound/worm wave

 

Wormwood has a downside for something,  lets dont treat his downside like wigfrid's...

[mykenception]

57 minutes ago, Faintly Macabre said:

Why is it that the people who cry the loudest about how easy or casual or whatever the game is getting seem to be really casual players themselves? Most experienced players do not take that skill. I am utterly stunned at the idea of someone seriously bringing up that their dwarf star from their ruins-looted star caller's staff makes this talent better. If you've been to the ruins, you should have zero issues with health, and this skill is at the very best an incredibly mild convenience.

in my case, I'm trying to change up a build for a pre-rift setup for wormwood so I was thinking of grabbing those skills, tho it kinda wasn't worth it before. Once the beta drops, we'll see how they changed it and and judge it's worth accordingly then 

[Faintly Macabre]

@arubaro, my position isn't that the skill needs to be buffed more. I'm just saying its impact on gameplay is so incredibly minor that for most players it has little or no value and is a terrible example to offer up of power creep/casualization/whatever they were complaining about.

@mykenception, I'm just being a bit hyperbolic. It's not literally completely useless, and if somebody decides that its value to them is better than whatever else they could spend the point on, that's totally cool.

We don't know exactly how much it's been buffed yet, but in the stream Jason's exact words were "just a little more," so I don't expect much. It'll just be a little bit more of a small convenience than it was before. As an actual life-saver, it's just... nothing. It might let you make a mistake or two that you otherwise couldn't... the kind of mistake that probably means you'll die pretty soon anyway.

[PigsonReal]

On 3/3/2024 at 2:27 PM, Swiyss said:

Ok ok. Imagine if........... (play the drums)................ they add godmode to survival!!!!! 

What? I never ever thought that ANYONE would think this is a bad idea?!!?? No no no no. This is actually VERY balanced and extremely O.K. why would one NOT want to be invincible, right? Ha ha ha. It is NOT like this TOTALLY INTENDED feature disregards a ton of other survival fundamentals of the game.

All I can say is that, when my brain was developing, I only studied, played and thought about dont starve. This is why I am somewhat thoughtful about these things. I literally cannot process.

But if klei says they want it because why not, then whatever, what can I do.

I'm not sure if anyone else has pointed it out or not, but in hamlet there exists an item that essentially gives you god mode for a period of time. The living artifact is a hamlet-exclusive item that can only be crafted after defeating a fairly difficult boss fight and traversing through a specific ruin. It provides invulnerability to damage and environmental hazards for a brief period of time after activation

Gameplay like this has existed even before return of them but cannot be acquired without quite a bit of effort (and knowledge on what to put said effort on) on the player's behalf. This isn't something you can use as a crutch if you're still learning the game but a specific tool you can use only once you've figured out how to actually defeat the bosses and presumably understand the game's survival aspects long enough to make use of it

On 3/3/2024 at 2:27 PM, Swiyss said:

It looks like cheating from a mod that a 15 year old did in 3 days. Without disrespecting the team or the devs. I have to be as honest as possible without soundind rude. Sorry if it offends anyone.

What we saw from the stream was quite literally a preview of a currently unfinished feature. The item used to upgrade the chest had no sprite in the inventory and was only spawned in via console commands so essentially everything is subject to change, even the amount displayed or the amount of items you could even store in a single slot

On 3/3/2024 at 2:40 PM, Swiyss said:

What is next? Infinite inventory space? 

Oh, bring the rocks, the 1855 of them at the base, you don't need a krampus sack no no no. Just put e everything in your Infinite Void Class Inventory Slot that took you 100 fuelweaver kills + 1 thousand pure horror to get. THAT is a real chinese rpg gatcha system.

Maybe tencent influence was actually bad.

...

[Jakepeng99]

2 hours ago, Faintly Macabre said:

They buffed it because it's completely useless as it currently exists. It'll probably still be useless after buffing. This has nothing to do with constant stimulation or Fortnite or any of the other ridiculous bogey monsters you people set up. Stop worrying so much about how other people have fun.

Photosynthesis was good, but the other blooming skills are kinda garbage .

3 minutes ago, PigsonReal said:

I'm not sure if anyone else has pointed it out or not, but in hamlet there exists an item that essentially gives you god mode for a period of time. The living artifact is a hamlet-exclusive item that can only be crafted after defeating a fairly difficult boss fight and traversing through a specific ruin. It provides invulnerability to damage and environmental hazards for a brief period of time after activation

Cus hamlets awesome.

[arubaro]

16 minutes ago, Faintly Macabre said:

@arubaro, my position isn't that the skill needs to be buffed more. I'm just saying its impact on gameplay is so incredibly minor that for most players it has little or no value and is a terrible example to offer up of power creep/casualization/whatever they were complaining about

Yeah i agree on that but dont agree on it being useless

[prettynuggets]

57 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Believe it or not there are actually gamers out there who “enjoy” this type of suffering, and Klei is a gaming company that sort of.. specializes in it?

i also play oni and DS/T. i feel in love with their aesthetic, a perfect combination within challenge and building too. but is that what make me stay, probably no. cus before i feel in love with the building in DST i suffer like everybody else that new in this game. which is more frustrating that it need it to, but the victorious feeling after u finally got the grasp on how to do well in game that make me stay.

i dont think people who stay for klei games stay cus they like to suffer, people play DS/T cus the satisfactory feeling after u overcome the challenge they offer. 
 

2 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Speaking of Webber and spider healing, I’ve discovered a fun way to get easy cheap almost free heals with him.

Wait till a Spider Queen spawns, then use grass traps to catch her nurse spiders and leave the area.

Then when you want to be “healed” you force your two healing spiders to fight each other by first placing one on the ground, then fake attack the other (start to hit it but stop) this will tell the your second spider that you see the first spider as an enemy, then when they’re done attacking each other (healing you and themselves in the process) pick up the spider that’s being attacked first, and afterwards pick up the spider you told to attack him.

that’s all you gotta do, no Switcherdoodle cookies required.

Anyways just wanted to share that small tidbit of discovery  carry on with your conversation.

or u can just drop one or two nurse spider near chester u can get infinite healing with it too. also it follow u around cus they attracted to chester (chester heal itself so it wont die from one or two nurse attack).

discovering things like this which the game not even once tell us to do is pretty satisfactory. 

im not here cus there is meteor shower in mosaic drop on my freshly opened lootstash*, or how one random lightning burn my 40 pierogis that just feel after i open the bundles. i pretty much suffer watching my pierogi become ashes but that feeling of suffering is not what make me stay. i stay because it make me want to quickly finish the zombosses questline to make my sweet little bearger bin .

 

Spoiler

btw the meteor did drop and destroy some bundle. but 2 bundle survived which i found later it was the main loot ... it was unmoded server. i didnt save em cus i know what inside. it feel like im soooo unlucky but after 5 second im in so much awe that two bundle survive actually the main loot with krampus sack. 
 

 

[Yuuko]

3 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Take for example the game I was playing last night- Rogue Legacy: Everytime you die in that game you have to pick your next of kin to play as, but there is a strong catch, some of them will have really bizarre downsides- such as having dementia and seeing things that don’t really exist, or having dyslexia & words of text being jumbled & mixed up, or having vertigo so the game world is flipped upside down.

Rogue Legacy - Designed around meta progression, always dying to buy bigger stats and restarting.  You might spend 3-20 minutes on a run.  The down sides are a joke, and some features make the game pretty unplayable.  Absolutely nothing is lost on death.  If you don't like a character or make some mistake you just die, get a new roll, and come back.  Not even a slight inconvenience.

DST - Designed around a single game run, building everything up within that run.  You will spend over 9 hours just to go through 1 cycle of the seasons.  Whatever the downsides are, you are basically married to them.  Dying gains you nothing, drops all items carried where you were, and can lead to total loss and world reset.  However many hours you spent building up this world are now gone.

Not even close to comparable.  Imagine going through ALL that is DST with something stupid like "everything at the center of the screen is blurred, and all aiming is exactly reversed."

Edited March 6 by Yuuko