What are your next year's content expectations?

[Ryusuta]

10 hours ago, goblinball said:

nothing is going to change, skill trees are not ruining the dst “meta” or whatever, grow up.

Ease up a little. I was simply explaining how adding options can limit meaningful choices; which is what you asked. I'm not saying it's a 1:1 comparison or anything like that. I was simply using it as an example to clarify the explanation.

[GenomeSquirrel]

I’m curious how long we’re going through the rifts direction, if incentivizing us into killing CC and FW succeeded, part of me would like it to continue if we could complete more of the skill tree.

However, ever since the ocean update, they’ve been putting content into increasingly inconvenient places, even now there’s probably 10 things on pirate island I completely forgot existed, and outside of farming, beef, and skill trees, it feels as if we’ve gotten much less than we have. I expect this feeling to continue.

[Cassielu]

On 12/31/2023 at 11:52 AM, goblinball said:

This doesn’t make any sense…

I don’t see how giving characters more tools to work with with new opportunities and potential for strategy is somehow reducing strategy??? Like what???

Power creep is one thing. Ryusuta has already explained it.

The other part is mainly about the great elimination by From Beyond update, which takes away the rewards players have earned by learning in-game mechanics and combine with the character, then gives a small portion of them (basically combat ability only) back to us by binding them to characters in a much less interesting way in Skilltree update.

 

For example, Wendy and Maxwell can benefit more from ride beefalo combat because it gives wendy higher damage, helps maxwell take damage and allows him to use thurible in combat. These are not part of their own abilities, but rather require players to learn their abilities and beefalo, combining them to create strategies. Planar and konckback took it, and skilltree gave us Wigfird back. But compared to those two, Wigfird's power is boring, you just have it and use it.

It is even worse when it comes to non-direct combat powers. As another two example, By providing a living log, Wormwood is better at shadow magic and ruins. By converting its precious health into aoe attacks through Bramble Husk, Wormwood is better at fighting hordes of enemies. These are not even compensated by the skill tree.

But at the same time, Wolfgang's crazy damage, where you just do the same thing but get a higher payoff just because you are Wolfgang - the most boring and most deserving of elimination part - is instead preserved, and  useful more than ever.

[Frosty_Mentos]

I have another thought that of what I've always wanted and it's having stockpiles instead of chests for basic resources. Lets say you got 1k wood laying around and chests just don't do it storage wise only for boards which also are kinda rough to store even in compact form of logs, a simple structure to stockpile a TON of material in one place instead of having many sprites around would make it much better for performance and having single item stored in those places.

We really need to have stockpiles for: Cut Grass, Twigs, Stones, Wood and maybe Reeds.

Along with that we could use something like a tool shelf like a bookcase but for tools and for Wardrobes to have extra function to store clothing. It's not neat to see a lot of items just laying around like our tools and better if we get proper storage for it all. There's mods existing for that but I'd wanna see it in main DST content for QoL update.

Having a stockpile of wood could act like a long lasting pyre or charcoal burner in a way instead of using firepits for not as good or efficient kinda charcoal production. Firepits and campfires really don't do it well and are but a hassle imo when you can burn a forest instead. But having a stockpile of wood you can burn for coal would make something I can appreciate without needing to go into forests.

Maybe these could be found as recipes gotten traded with pig king or something, like he has ideas that he wants to share with survivors for pigs to thrive better and help survivors in their smaller needs (even if he doesn't do much but boss them around to do that)

[goblinball]

18 hours ago, Ryusuta said:

Ease up a little. I was simply explaining how adding options can limit meaningful choices; which is what you asked. I'm not saying it's a 1:1 comparison or anything like that. I was simply using it as an example to clarify the explanation.

It kinda has to be a 1:1 comparison though lol, otherwise what you’re talking about is completely unrelated to the conversation at hand. In different contexts yeah adding new op stuff can invalidate other stuff and reduce gameplay variety  but that is definitely not the case here 

[Sanitar]

I want a hamlet and sw port. The best content that has ever been created for DS should still get into DST

[Antynomity]

22 hours ago, Cassielu said:

Power creep is one thing. Ryusuta has already explained it.

The other part is mainly about the great elimination by From Beyond update, which takes away the rewards players have earned by learning in-game mechanics and combine with the character, then gives a small portion of them (basically combat ability only) back to us by binding them to characters in a much less interesting way in Skilltree update.

 

For example, Wendy and Maxwell can benefit more from ride beefalo combat because it gives wendy higher damage, helps maxwell take damage and allows him to use thurible in combat. These are not part of their own abilities, but rather require players to learn their abilities and beefalo, combining them to create strategies. Planar and konckback took it, and skilltree gave us Wigfird back. But compared to those two, Wigfird's power is boring, you just have it and use it.

It is even worse when it comes to non-direct combat powers. As another two example, By providing a living log, Wormwood is better at shadow magic and ruins. By converting its precious health into aoe attacks through Bramble Husk, Wormwood is better at fighting hordes of enemies. These are not even compensated by the skill tree.

But at the same time, Wolfgang's crazy damage, where you just do the same thing but get a higher payoff just because you are Wolfgang - the most boring and most deserving of elimination part - is instead preserved, and  useful more than ever.

that's because wormwood can't have nice things according to Klei's balancing

[Frosty_Mentos]

Another idea is that Shield of terror should have ability like wigfrid's shield to block a hit or burst to pointed direction, it's a boss item that have had mid value to any of my plays just to the lack of damage alone (tenticle spike damage ain't the damage I like to see) and since it breaks it could be an alternative to a snurtle shell as a comparison. The helmet eye gives is decent for the boss you need to kill to get it, but twins are definitely a much higher difficulty enemy.

Also Willow's lategame spells are very mid from what I've seen just cause of cooldowns. If the freezing would add slowness to enemies or if shadow  would ignite enemy with shadow fire for some extra planar damage it would be neat to have those effects.

[Mike23Ua]

The last Roadmap actually didn’t arrive until mid March, so my expectations are going to be 2-3 months of nothing, followed by a roadmap in March again with very vague detail as to what we have to look forward to.

Ive been waiting since the start of 2019 when RoT first started to get some new places to sail to and explore, and so far.. I’ve been incredibly disappointed by that particular part of the game.

MEANWHILE it seems like Klei can’t resist the urge to add a new side-boss every other update.

[MrsBoris]

celestial fuelweaver

[Retepeter]

On 1/2/2024 at 11:21 PM, Mike23Ua said:

MEANWHILE it seems like Klei can’t resist the urge to add a new side-boss every other update.

I'm not sure how that's a negative, all the bosses and minibosses after crabking have been great, fun and rewarding and the only objective criticism I can give is that sharkboi doesn't have good drops, but I'm certain he and nightmare werepig will be returning later in FB

[Mike23Ua]

2 minutes ago, Retepeter said:

I'm not sure how that's a negative, all the bosses and minibosses after crankink have been great, fun and rewarding and the only objective criticism I can give is that sharkboi doesn't have good drops, but I'm certain he and nightmare werepig will be returning later in FB

It’s a problem for me because instead of adding new content filled biomes with as many new resources and mobs as the first Return of Them Update brought to the game, Klei is instead opting to fill in those areas with new Boss fights.

And I’m sorry I don’t find fighting Dragonfly, CrabKing or ANY BOSS really anywhere near as fun as exploring new biomes with new mobs and resources.

I understand WHY Klei does it, (because it’s easier to code one new boss into the game then it is to design an entire content rich location to explore.)

But that doesn’t make me hate them any less, if anything it just makes me wish that so much of this games fanbase wasn’t so fixated on a new fancy boss every updated.

I want new biomes to explore, or at the very least- Updated visuals to the outdated, mostly empty existing ones.

Or in other words- The Ocean should be full of content like the Shipwrecked DLC was rather than having its ocean filled with boring bosses I’ll fight 2 or 3 times then never bother touching EVER again.

[PunkShark]

11 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

The last Roadmap actually didn’t arrive until mid March, so my expectations are going to be 2-3 months of nothing, followed by a roadmap in March again with very vague detail as to what we have to look forward to.

 

That is not even remotely close as to what happened with the 2022 roadmap. Klei specifically mentioned the roadmap would leak a bit further into the next year than usual.
What happened at the beginning of last year is that we got Lunar new year (as always) and afterwards Wilson's rework in march, because that was the last part of the roadmap, that's why it ended later than usual. it wasn't 3 months of nothing. And Klei told us within the last update post that this year's roadmap's likely gonna happen at the end of January.

[Antynomity]

10 hours ago, Retepeter said:

I'm not sure how that's a negative, all the bosses and minibosses after crankink have been great, fun and rewarding and the only objective criticism I can give is that sharkboi doesn't have good drops, but I'm certain he and nightmare werepig will be returning later in FB

All the bosses recently are do X to get free hits and repeat, they feel very scripted because you either do something or you get punished, they are very bad and don't get me started on Frostjaw's animations, he's the stiffest mob in the game.

The only boss that does this new formula is daywalker, and that's because he was the first one and he was very refreshing to fight, now that literally every single boss going forward will use that boring formula I am not excited at all to fight them because to be 100% honest so far every new boss with this formula that I fought I beat 1st try due to just how easy they are, and not in a good way either, and no I did not watch guides or gameplay.

[cropo]

Personally I am getting kinda tired of lureplant garbage disposal. it has always been a fun way to get a trash can, but I just want a container I can throw all my garbage in to immediately incinerate, like fire packim from Shipwrecked.

 

13 minutes ago, Antynomity said:

All the bosses recently are do X to get free hits and repeat, they feel very scripted because you either do something or you get punished

And to be honest, in my opinion they are much funner than the ANR bosses that just throw a bunch of crap at you. Fuelweaver is a battle with your inventory more than it is against the boss. Bee Queen literally drove most players to learn how to utilize cheese and bullcrap to avoid fighting her legitimately, Crab King is just horrible for most players in general. All of the old bosses had boring kite mechanics or super-charged health that just encouraged really dumb strategies or flex-runs where a godly player completely dominates them.

The only boss I can think of that I enjoyed fighting was Klaus, he doesn't throw a bunch of crap at you, slightly shakes up the kiting formula in a fair manner, but otherwise is a boss you can fight mano-a-mano and have a good time. If you consider ancient guardians rework part of this new ''scripted'' formula, I'd say the fight is more than twice as good as the old one was, which again was just another HP sponge rook that incentivized the player to fight it unfairly.

Maybe other players like spending 10 days to build 500 rabbit houses to completely obliterate Bee Queen, but I am much happier with the bosses we've been getting. Crystalclops and Armger are obviously going to be on the easier side, they're slight upgrades of trash bosses that attack you every season, hardly anything to judge an entire system on.

[grm9]

19 minutes ago, cropo said:

Fuelweaver is a battle with your inventory more than it is against the boss

then don't use weather pains and lazy explorer so the only thing you need to use is nightmare amulet or sanity food and insanity food

19 minutes ago, cropo said:

Bee Queen literally drove most players to learn how to utilize cheese and bullcrap to avoid fighting her legitimately

that's their problem mostly since now more than half of characters have their own ways to do BQ without cheese comfortably 

19 minutes ago, cropo said:

Crab King is just horrible for most players in general

could've been solved by decreasing claw hp and allowing to place boats on top of items and birds

19 minutes ago, cropo said:

All of the old bosses had boring kite mechanics or super-charged health that just encouraged really dumb strategies or flex-runs where a godly player completely dominates them

except none of them were that much about just kiting melee attacks other than dfly, which also had lavaes and enraged mode that you could fight against if you wanted it to be more interesting? The rest of the complaint is really weird

19 minutes ago, cropo said:

Maybe other players like spending 10 days to build 500 rabbit houses to completely obliterate Bee Queen

why not get some bramble husks or moon shrooms or shadow prison or panic songs or abigail or tentacles or merms or spiders or that ignite all enemies nearby thing or pan flutes

19 minutes ago, cropo said:

The only boss I can think of that I enjoyed fighting was Klaus

literally the most boring ANR boss, dodge -> hit X times depending on speed -> repeat until cast -> run away when he casts so you don't get chip damage or just ignore the spells entirely at the cost of eating a blue shroom after the fight -> phase 2 -> now you bait lunge, dodge, hit X times depending on speed and run away to not get caught by lunge if you try to hit him after baiting the second melee attack in a row after a lunge, from what i remember at least, repeat for 15k hp, there's hardly a way to make it remotely interesting too, unlike dfly without armor or something

19 minutes ago, cropo said:

If you consider ancient guardians rework part of this new ''scripted'' formula, I'd say the fight is more than twice as good as the old one was, which again was just another HP sponge rook that incentivized the player to fight it unfairly

the old AG was from DS and not ANR, obviously he was garbage

19 minutes ago, cropo said:

Crystalclops and Armger are obviously going to be on the easier side, they're slight upgrades of trash bosses that attack you every season, hardly anything to judge an entire system on

what do you suggest is the best new boss then? daywalker is boring, frostjaw is boring, mutated bosses are boring, the eye and the twins are boring, CC is boring 

[Mike23Ua]

Nothing anyone can ever say will change the fact that dst bosses and mobs are designed with the intention that you have at least one other playing the game with you. And therefore have much higher health.

Single player DS and its DLCs had significantly lowered HP mob encounters and Boss Fights, Because believe it or not… Klei did not intend for us to spend 45 minutes fighting one Raid Boss.

And personally I don’t care how many people find fighting bosses designed for coop play to be fun or even moderately enjoyable Solo- Your in a very narrow branch of players from the Majority.

Newer players Quit when they can’t survive Deerclops & you’re expecting them to fight bosses as the majority of the games content updates..? 

[Antynomity]

39 minutes ago, cropo said:

snip

Yeah I forgot about AG and I do agree the fight is better now, much easier but also much better.

I do agree that ANR's bosses were BS but that's also the beauty in (most) of them, they truly allow many different strategies and inventory loadouts to prosper without necessarily forcing you to use any specific item (once again, in most cases).

Hopefully future formulaic bosses are better because rn except for DW and AG they really suck.

[Spino43]

24 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Single player DS and its DLCs had significantly lowered HP mob encounters and Boss Fights, Because believe it or not… Klei did not intend for us to spend 45 minutes fighting one Raid Boss

Cus they don't.. the only one that may take that amount of time is misery toad. Players with enough experience can beat up dfly in 2 days, 1 if the character is a combay one, and in first autumn/winter too. And one can just search "how to beat this x boss" on youtube in 3 seconds if they want to learn beating it.

Does dst have enough bosses? Imo, yes, especially with the upcoming gestalt (maybe shadow side too) zombified version of existing bosses, but your argument seems like you have a skill issue with fighting in this game.

[cropo]

49 minutes ago, grm9 said:

then don't use weather pains and lazy explorer so the only thing you need to use is nightmare amulet or sanity food and insanity food

Okay sure thing.

49 minutes ago, grm9 said:

that's their problem mostly since now more than half of characters have their own ways to do BQ without cheese comfortably 

Like what? Most of the things that have been given to characters are simultaneously decried as overpowered or ''cheese'' or powercreep in and of themselves by the people who don't like the new boss direction. This boss was literally made with the intention of forcing solo players to be unable to beat her legitimately, not to make her an engaging and interesting fight. 

49 minutes ago, grm9 said:

except none of them were that much about just kiting melee attacks other than dfly, which also had lavaes and enraged mode that you could fight against if you wanted it to be more interesting? The rest of the complaint is really weird

Old bosses meaning non-ANR bosses. The legacy bosses of the game. Every boss up until Dragonfly was kite-and-hit whereas Dragonfly was tank and hit. Deerclops, Moose/goose, Shark clops, Sealnado, Quacken if you have a lot of patience, AG if you have a lot of patience. 

Only Ancient Herald and Roboguardian had any break from this formula. Roboguardian fights like a scripted battle, so it is also a failure in the eyes of the people who don't like this. Ancient Herald is a massive spam-screen of BS because it is thematically a ''game over'' to encounter him, and thematically you are supposed to use the living artifact to kill him.

The Dragonfly of DST is much of the same as it was in regular DS, only it just summons more stuff on the screen and has 20 billion HP. The Lavaes don't have any rhythm or intrigue in the fight, they're just ''more stuff on the screen, so it's harder''. None of these bosses had an elaborate or interesting fighting pattern, they are not cheesed because the player is utilizing some big-brained strategy, they are using a cheap and cost-effective cheese strategy they saw on youtube because the bosses genuinely aren't worth actually fighting and their gameplay mechanics do not encourage fighting them properly, so the only reason to actually try to ''legitimately'' fight most DST bosses is if you're flexing for a youtube speedrun.

 

49 minutes ago, grm9 said:

why not get some bramble husks or moon shrooms or shadow prison or panic songs or abigail or tentacles or merms or spiders or that ignite all enemies nearby thing or pan flutes

Spiders, tentacles, merms, are the exact same concept as spamming 500 bunymen houses. You're just overbuilding crap to overwhelm her own crap with your own, it's not a ''fight'', it's a meat-grinder designed to kill her.

Shadow Prison is considered an overpowered and powercreep tactic that was newly added.

Abigail is character-specific and is a computer-controlled NPC that does the fighting for you, it's not engaging.

Igniting all the enemies nearby, if we ignore Willows skill-tree and focus only on scalemale, is a disablement of her mechanics, you're not engaging her, you're crippling her to beat her more easily.  In my opinion, none of these are better than actually fighting Daywalker, I don't want to Cheese Daywalker because I can fight him like a legitimate fight and it's actually fun, cheesing him would ruin the experience, in my opinion that is far better.

 

49 minutes ago, grm9 said:

literally the most boring ANR boss, dodge -> hit X times depending on speed -> repeat until cast -> run away when he casts so you don't get chip damage or just ignore the spells entirely at the cost of eating a blue shroom after the fight -> phase 2 -> now you bait lunge, dodge, hit X times depending on speed and run away to not get caught by lunge if you try to hit him after baiting the second melee attack in a row after a lunge, from what i remember at least, repeat for 15k hp, there's hardly a way to make it remotely interesting too, unlike dfly without armor or something

Fighting Dfly without armor is just a challenge you are imposing on yourself, it doesn't change Dflys mechanics on a base level. I'm sorry you think Klaus is boring though, I like the fight the most out of the others.

 

49 minutes ago, grm9 said:

what do you suggest is the best new boss then? daywalker is boring, frostjaw is boring, mutated bosses are boring, the eye and the twins are boring, CC is boring

So far my vote goes to Daywalker, but it seems you do not like him.

[grm9]

4 minutes ago, cropo said:

Most of the things that have been given to characters are simultaneously decried as overpowered or ''cheese'' or powercreep in and of themselves by the people who don't like the new boss direction

keep in mind that people aren't a hivemind

5 minutes ago, cropo said:

This boss was literally made with the intention of forcing solo players to be unable to beat her legitimately, not to make her an engaging and interesting fight

who cares about that now if you can do that as any character using pan flutes and using character exclusive stuff as most characters

7 minutes ago, cropo said:

Old bosses meaning non-ANR bosses. The legacy bosses of the game

then there isn't much to argue about, obviously DS, RoG and SW bosses were bad     

7 minutes ago, cropo said:

Spiders, tentacles, merms, are the exact same concept as spamming 500 bunymen houses. You're just overbuilding crap to overwhelm or own crap with your own, it's not a ''fight'', it's a meat-grinder designed to kill her

but you still need to plan around getting those resources, choose which method is best considering your boss route, character and the items you're already getting and you can always choose a harder but more fun method if you want to end up having more fun in comparison to fighting the new bosses

14 minutes ago, cropo said:

Only Ancient Herald and Roboguardian had any break from this formula. Roboguardian fights like a scripted battle, so it is also a failure in the eyes of the people who don't like this. Ancient Herald is a massive spam-screen of BS because it is thematically a ''game over'' to encounter him, and thematically you are supposed to use the living artifact to kill him

didn't play hamlet so idk

15 minutes ago, cropo said:

Shadow Prison is considered and overpowered and powercreep tactic that was newly added

i'm fine with it's existence personally, doesn't matter when it was added since you aren't going to downpatch for some reason 

16 minutes ago, cropo said:

Abigail is character-specific and is a computer-controlled NPC that does the fighting for you, it's not engaging

you still need to apply potions, control positioning, change her mode etc. although i don't play as wendy so idk how hard it is

17 minutes ago, cropo said:

Igniting all the enemies nearby, if we ignore Willows skill-tree and focus only on scalemale, is a disablement of her mechanics, you're not engaging her, you're crippling her to beat her more easily

i was talking about willow, idk if scalemail is even viable against BQ, that's still a method that you can use so i don't see a problem with it, fire panic is as much cheese as stunning daywalker

18 minutes ago, cropo said:

Fighting Dfly without armor is just a challenge you are imposing on yourself, it doesn't change Dflys mechanics on a base level

forgot to specify that i meant without flute and walls too

20 minutes ago, cropo said:

In my opinion, none of these are better than actually fighting Daywalker, I don't want to Cheese Daywalker because I can fight him like a legitimate fight and it's actually fun, cheesing him would ruin the experience, in my opinion that is far better

daywalker is much simpler and easier than even BQ using shadow prison or moon shrooms so it's boring, you just get a ham bat and he dies because it's hard to even get hit by his attacks, no need to choose a strat or plan around the resources you need to get because it's literally just magi for light and a ham bat and the fight itself is easy to do 

[Valase]

I hope they add an option to remove the planarity stuff and balance the planar enemies health around wolfgangs spicy jelly damage. I want some THICK brightshades.

[somethin]

I hope the new mutations make grass geckos actually worth it to set up. Lureplants farm are much faster and easier to use. And maybe huge ponds that you can sail in the caves? That would be so cool.

[Guille6785]

20 hours ago, cropo said:

Bee Queen literally drove most players to learn how to utilize cheese and bullcrap to avoid fighting her legitimately

(that was the point, bosses used to be designed to encourage you to think outside the box to overcome seemingly insurmountable mechanics rather than just walking to the side 3 times so the boss gets stunned and you can hold f)

[cropo]

1 hour ago, Guille6785 said:

(that was the point, bosses used to be designed to encourage you to think outside the box to overcome seemingly insurmountable mechanics rather than just walking to the side 3 times so the boss gets stunned and you can hold f)

No, they were literally made to be zerg-rushed by a group of people. Being able to make some contraption solo to goldberg-machine them to death was completely unintended, and discouraged which is why Toadstool Pre-Nerf was made in response to players constantly figuring out how to break their bosses. Klei was angry that ''Don't Starve Together'' was being played solo, and players were doing circus-acts with their mechanics to beat their mega bosses without any help, which went against the idea that the bosses were made for multiple players.

 

And I will repeat that building 900 bunnymen houses to out-bs it is not thinking outside of the box and overcoming, daring, and dashing and sexy escapade of epic proportions.  Most of the strategies that actually DO creatively use game mechanics have been nerfed, and decried as overpowered. 

 

Klei has never really liked the direction players took to tackle their obstacles, since they made the game. It's okay to ''experiment with mechanics'', but ''not in a way that they felt players shouldn't be doing.''. Don't Starves update history have been Klei making what they thought to be a challenging world, players ''creatively'' breaking that challenge, Klei trying to one-up that to force players in a more unfair position, only to have players find out another way to break it again. Klei has never won this battle, but the ongoing ''war of how much the player needs to suffer'' and ''We need to find an intelligent way to break Klei's bosses and challenges" have had an overall negative impact on most normal players.

 

These new bosses are a sign that Klei is conceding, instead of trying to make an overpowered boss that needs to be ''creatively and masterfully circumvented with a dastardly and cunning technique''(bleh) they're making more traditional bosses that can be learned traditionally and fought fairly, and as the bosses will obviously get harder and harder as time goes on I feel this is the much better approach compared to what it was before.

 

This also benefits console players, not that I care about them, who are at an innate disadvantage with inventory management and unprepared to fight old-world type bosses with 20 different items they need to quickly swap around with.