Iffy about the recent hotfix

[Primalflower]

1 minute ago, Frosty_Mentos said:

snip

i cannot make heads or tails or this response i'm sorry

[Frosty_Mentos]

1 minute ago, Primalflower said:

i cannot make heads or tails or this response i'm sorry

suffer

My point is... survival been always the aspect and essential of the game. We may hate doing some things over and over with the protection of our bases but it's just part of the game. It's not Klei's fault we decided to build megacities in a game like DST, but they been mostly very inviting in doing so by pumping out skins for these things and our enjoyment. 

While keeping the game generally uncompromising as it's been over the years and adding new features to tackle might as well bring new better solutions on the board. It's all still raw, but in time I hope for more.

Also, whoever would call Klei lazy are probably intaking high dosages of green shrooms so seek doctor at once.

We don't come here to hate on them for not doing things we want, we come here to beg cry and beg more for something to be changed till it feels way better or at least just fine enough to feel just right.

[abrocator]

I don’t “megabase” but I sometimes watch people who do. Here’s how they deal with all environment and incoming threats:

• Run outta base
• Run to safe place in base

So while I get that boulders magically avoiding structures feels weird, I don’t see how this deprives anyone of any challenge. The solutions to this problem would just be:

• The suggested pillars or other lightningrod-for-earthquakes ideas: the challenge of having to make a structure to counter a threat can be somewhat of a challenge (like the chimenea or whatever it’s called in SW) but this hardly seems like a challenge at this point in the game
• More warning so you can run outta base

Again, I don’t megabase. But getting interrupted by things so you have to run outta base seems really annoying when you’re in 2K+ day world and you’re doing some (I dunno) tiling work that takes 15 days and 5 antlion hats to work through (but would take 60 days without the antlion hats).

The best thing would just to delete this boulder post-FW business. What even is the connection?

[ImDaMisterL]

Hey everyone, remember to stay on topic and to take the high road when commenting. Don't make personal remarks, since that only tends to derail threads and cause arguments. Be respectful and mindful of other users when posting.

Thank you for understanding, and have a nice day.

[mblt]

Yes, we don't exactly need to be hostile with the hotfix, sure it addresses some issues and provides a fix but it's not exactly something universally agreed upon which I think is where the problem is stemming. Don't get me wrong quite a few things are very nice and well needed, but there's only minor things done about the major issues. At least currently.

Yes boulders destroying things are bad and this fix addresses that, though the approach feels a bit awkward, yes you wouldn't exactly need to manually defend your things with a structure, but that's removing the challenge of requiring you to defend against them. Just having your base exist is enough to completely thwart the danger, opposed to a structure with the specific intent of combating this thwarting the danger. The environment simply bending around your existence with you not needing to do anything about it is out of place, at least personally speaking, especially with a mechanic that is intentionally a challenge due to your current progression.

Sure if you dislike flingomatics you can disable wildfires and if you dislike lightning, disable lightning, but that requires changing the world settings which doesn't fit to conversations implying world settings are not changed. In this logic you can just disable earthquakes if you really don't like them that much and that would be the fix.

I imagine the pillar idea doesn't exactly need to be ugly or taking up a lot of space, something you'd be able to tuck into a corner and not have your camera constantly in the center of. I imagine it'd also have lots of use decoratively if that is a concern.

I'd like to think most of this is a fix to help with playing in general and given enough time, more major things will occur, these things won't be coming instantly after all. If I missed something let me know.

[Mysterious box]

24 minutes ago, abrocator said:

So while I get that boulders magically avoiding structures feels weird, I don’t see how this deprives anyone of any challenge. The solutions to this problem would just be:

• The suggested pillars or other lightningrod-for-earthquakes ideas: the challenge of having to make a structure to counter a threat can be somewhat of a challenge (like the chimenea or whatever it’s called in SW) but this hardly seems like a challenge at this point in the game
• More warning so you can run outta base

I've been slowly trying to refine my response to this to vent my frustration and hopefully appeal to Kielso please excuse me for constantly making different comparisons but...

Imagine if you will Kiel in the next patch removed the mechanic of fire burning things fire damage would still exist but nothing could burn could you still say fire is a survival mechanic?

[_zwb]

Would be nice if they make the umbralla a deployable item, and when placed it makes a tree canopy like protection from earthquakes. Like it would become gigantic and shrinks when you pick it up or it runs out of durability, which can be refueled using pure horror or something.

Now you can just use new armour for acid rain protection so why not use the umbralla for boulder protection?

[abrocator]

8 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

I've been slowly trying to refine my response to this to vent my frustration and hopefully appeal to Kielso please excuse me for constantly making different comparisons but...

You’ve been refining this?

Quote

Imagine if you will Kiel in the next patch removed the mechanic of fire burning things fire damage would still exist but nothing could burn could you still say fire is a survival mechanic?

No.

Will this lead to an epic own?

[Mysterious box]

4 minutes ago, abrocator said:

No.

Will this lead to an epic own?

I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say here?

[Pticman]

While pillars could be a nice decor item added to the game, I don't want to be obligated to build them like  lighting rods. Pillars

• Make the view of the camera worse
• Rather giant structures, potentially messing with you base design 

I am not a fan of the idea of giant lighting rods. I would rather prefer something more simple and elegant at the same time. To make the right decision and give some constructive feedback, we need firstly to ask the question : what type of challenge do we want to add to earthquakes? what is our goal?

If you want the earthquakes to be the threat to the base, i think the better solution would be implementing the warning system like it was with antlion. Also, the earthquake with boulders should have some sort of cool down, to not be annoying every 1/2 days.

If you want earthquakes to be threat to the player (which I am personally the fan of), it would be better solution to add some type of new highly damaging idk shadow stalagmites like some players suggested, maybe shadow creatures that fall from the roofs/appear from the ground.

If you want to achieve both goals at the same time, you need to implement both warning system and some real potential threat to player.

 

[mblt]

12 minutes ago, Pticman said:

-snip-

I do believe boulders are an intended challenge to the player as boulders hit way harder i think, if not it should and still need to be dodged, structures being destroyed is simply a frowned upon byproduct that should have preventive measure much like other destructive world hazards do. Pillars obfuscating the camera I wouldn't see as an issue as it's simply only a matter of where you place them, which if you're great at designing you should be able to find a convenient spot for them, such as using bare orientation to have them opposite to where your camera would normally be facing. If anything it shouldn't be a wide structure as it'd take up a lot of space and only possibly be much more obfuscating, if it was wall sized or part of the wall grid that'd be perfect. They can also turn transparent as other pillars would depending on camera position if you barely have choice.

[Baark0]

1 hour ago, Primalflower said:

people despise and lightning rods.

what are u talking about lighting rods are greant, theyre cheap, take up minimal space, and protect a large area

[Zeklo]

If these theoretical pillars essentially had, more or less, the range of the Big Boi Trees, I think one would be enough for each 'sector' of a mega base.

IMO, the issue with flingos & lightning rods is just that the small range calls for a lot of them, which can be uninspiring for builds.

[chirsg]

3 hours ago, Primalflower said:

i feel like i'm living in a bizarro world where something that everyone complained about is actually directly fixed but even still nobody is satisfied or even really happy about it

I'm sceptical of the fix. I wouldn't be surprised if a structure gets destroyed by a boulder. I don't have faith that a structure is going to totally be safe. 
There's no way to prove me right with impunity either if it does come to pass.

[Ryusuta]

Dude, I genuinely don't understand what your complaint is. There was a MAJOR problem for some players. That problem was addressed in an easy way that doesn't require a pointless resource sink.

The solution is PERFECT as-is.

Making us build stuff to prevent the boulders is just Ice Flingomatics all over again. And we all know how much people love needing those.

[00petar00]

I am really a fan of the acid rain changes. How many items can protect you from normal rain? That really doesn't invalidate rain, just makes it less of a hassle.

Being able to use armor to protect from acid rain is very useful, there are only 3 equipment slots and you need to give another slot for light.

Having to mine boulders after every earthquake is just annoying and doesn't increase difficulty. @ADMhad a good suggestion, just replace them with stalagmites or literally anything that fits, so that it drops and deals a lot of damage to the player and doesn't touch buildings but breaks afterwards.

EDIT:

I just want to add that a lot of players don't like building lightning rods or flingomatics around their whole base because it doesn't look good or fit every build. @Primalfloweris completely right about this as a lot of friends of mine have been saying the same.

[mblt]

Yes... While boulders are technically not an issue for structures anymore which is welcome, cluttering is the other problem which persists. Having to mine the boulders to clear clutter every earthquake is a bit of a demanding chore as ignoring them lets them pile up. 4-5 earthquakes in and it's already very overwhelming.

Spoiler

The idea of simply having them shatter on impact would be enough, it doesn't need to be every boulder either, just a high percentage. Even if they leave their drops behind afterwards, it is much more different than item clutter.

There should also be a way to tell which is a regular rock and which is a boulder before it falls seeing they'll just immediately break with impact, such as much larger shadows. 

[Dextops]

9 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

I am really a fan of the acid rain changes. How many items can protect you from normal rain? That really doesn't invalidate rain, just makes it less of a hassle.

Genuine question but why would I ever not just use the void hat a backpack and a lantern over anything else. All these changes did was make umbralla irrelevant while giving an illusion of choice 

 

11 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

Being able to use armor to protect from acid rain is very useful, there are only 3 equipment slots and you need to give another slot for light.

That’s why there was potential for having to make a choice with their pros and cons but that was thrown in the trash because there’s no reason to not use a void cowl.

[mblt]

18 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

I just want to add that a lot of players don't like building lightning rods or flingomatics around their whole base because it doesn't look good or fit every build. @Primalfloweris completely right about this as a lot of friends of mine have been saying the same.

Theme-wise sure it's pretty hard to fit into builds, considering their purpose is defense. Lightning rods you can at least set and forget with their large radius and purpose always active, but flingos have a smaller radius and do need fuel which is a lot of management, having a long term or large base, requiring them to be all around I can absolutely see as bad, which is why people with large bases just turn off wildfires.

Maybe as Zeklo said, have it provide a very huge radius so you don't need to spam them around as much? I heard another suggestion of being able to toggle boulders being able to drop or not in world settings.

[00petar00]

10 minutes ago, Dextops said:

Genuine question but why would I ever not just use the void hat a backpack and a lantern over anything else. All these changes did was make umbralla irrelevant while giving an illusion of choice 

It was a terrible choice to begin with, taking damage if you are not using that one specific hand slot item designed to counter the mechanic. 

12 minutes ago, Dextops said:

That’s why there was potential for having to make a choice with their pros and cons but that was thrown in the trash because there’s no reason to not use a void cowl.

I wouldn't mind if there were changes to Umbralla but I don't think our other options should be made worse just for this to be viable. Why not give Umbralla another ability? There was a good suggestion about it protecting you from any items that could fall on your head.

[Mysterious box]

35 minutes ago, Ryusuta said:

Dude, I genuinely don't understand what your complaint is. There was a MAJOR problem for some players. That problem was addressed in an easy way that doesn't require a pointless resource sink.

The solution is PERFECT as-is.

Making us build stuff to prevent the boulders is just Ice Flingomatics all over again. And we all know how much people love needing those.

This is the equivalent of in order to prevent freezing to death in winter we put the winter cold on the lunar island and me asking what's the problem winter gear looks lame anyway. 

[Dextops]

1 minute ago, 00petar00 said:

was a terrible choice to begin with, taking damage if you are not using that one specific hand slot item designed to counter the mechanic. 

Making it useless was a horrible decision as well and I don’t see how this makes it better all they did was put a tape on a sinking ship.

 

2 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

wouldn't mind if there were changes to Umbralla but I don't think our other options should be made worse just for this to be viable. Why not give Umbralla another ability? There was a good suggestion about it protecting you from any items that could fall on your head.

What I was asking for was for there to be actual choices and not a “this is the best option there’s no point in using anything else” which this game has trouble doing. As I said in my main post adding an acid rain coat would free up your hand slot allowing for easier access of a lantern and weapon but you’d lose out on body armour and a backpack while using the umbralla would allow for you to have a backpack and body armour. These both have their pros and cons and it’s an actual choice and you can choose what caters to your play style.

[Baark0]

33 minutes ago, mblt said:

The idea of simply having them shatter on impact would be enough, it doesn't need to be every boulder either, just a high percentage. Even if they leave their drops behind afterwards, it is much more different than item clutter.

The idea of boulders breaking 80% of the time is so obvious I can't believe no one has thought of this yet, I mean it's literally how earthquakes work in the first place, this just seems like a natural progression of the mechanic.

[00petar00]

21 minutes ago, Dextops said:

What I was asking for was for there to be actual choices and not a “this is the best option there’s no point in using anything else” which this game has trouble doing. As I said in my main post adding an acid rain coat would free up your hand slot allowing for easier access of a lantern and weapon but you’d lose out on body armour and a backpack while using the umbralla would allow for you to have a backpack and body armour. These both have their pros and cons and it’s an actual choice and you can choose what caters to your play style.

There was never a choice when you have a hand slot item that can be completely replaced by body or head slot, most of the players will keep hand slot free.

Changing how rain works wasn't really a good thing to begin with because most players go to caves during autumn or summer, we don't have enough equipment slots and are already dealing with the cave sanity drain and always need light.

Cave basing and exploration should be encouraged and shouldn't inconvenience the player even more. There is a reason caves aren't getting any content updates besides this one that was required.

[Ryusuta]

25 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

This is the equivalent of in order to prevent freezing to death in winter we put the winter cold on the lunar island and me asking what's the problem winter gear looks lame anyway. 

A much more appropriate comparison are wildfires in summer, because they are random forces of destruction that are basically completely luck-based in proximity to you. Winter cold is much more steady, predictable, doesn't destroy your things, and most importantly, is NOT luck-based to any significant degree.