What is your main critique with the lunar vs shadow arc so far?

[Cassielu]

I hate the idea that the best way to defeat a threat is to "do nothing," as if I were a self-inflicted masochist to do this. The Brightshade basically turns the farm into a spider den stuff. If you don't want to be bothered by Brightshade, the best solution is to give up farming on base.

Another unpleasant thing is how little weather events interact with the rest of the world and other mechanisms. In this update, for example, the player is the only creature to suffer from acid rain and miasma, and even canaries can breathe miasma safely. For similar reasons, I'm also not in favor of anything that "protects the base by leaving the base."

[GelatinousCube]

58 minutes ago, goblinball said:

The sad part is that I entirely get why klei is doing this since this is literally what you guys asked for 

“oh we need more late game challenges oh we need more seasonal stuff we need harder seasons”

I’ve seen ppl suggest stuff like blizzards in later winter seasons so many times and only now that this content is finally being added are ppl realizing this is a bad idea

a lot of the ppl complaining about these new betas yell that “oh klei doesn’t listen to us” when in reality klei has been listening to them too much imo

While I do get what you are saying and agree somewhat there are plenty of ways to add new challenges and difficulty that isn't incredibly destructive to bases and structures. 

Blizzards could totally be a thing that adds difficulty but doesn't destroy structures/bases and would be awesome. We could also have days in summer that are scorching where you MUST be as cold as possible or you'll walk slower and be lethargic and possibly even faint to heatstroke temporarily- similar to being put to sleep by gestalts.

We could have pig raids (would be tricky to do without being too destructive) where they only steal food off like drying racks, crockpots, open farms but they don't actually destroy stuff outright or steal from chests. 

My point is while yes we've been asking for more late game challenges and content there's plenty of ways to do so without just annihilating our bases.

[Mysterious box]

2 minutes ago, chirsg said:

Re-read what I said. The casual community will stay. The hard core ones are at risk of leaving.

I won't answer any of your other questions because your mind is made up and if I reveal more efficient methods, they may get patched.

I guess I misunderstood that part my bad but I don't really think we should be considering exploits as reasons to call demerits to what naturally exists.

That being said I wouldn't say my mind is completely made up either I don't agree the current state of boulders is in the best spot and have even suggested afew changes but I understand if you don't want to continue.

[dois raios]

17 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Why would there need to be I mean seems like the current settings already fill all the niches adding the lunar and shadow stuff can be done in the settings not really a reason for a preset for it.

all playstyles are possible to make in the settings...

I dont get your point

[Mysterious box]

3 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

The two coming to mind to me are a grass gekko farm and twiggy tree farm IF properly set up.  These are both a bit difficult to set up, although considering the penalties of getting the scythe are quite high I think they win there.  Both farms take as much time to gather resources from as it takes to pick them up since there is no harvesting animation.  You can combo them with a lazy gatherer and definitely best the scythe.  That doesn't mean the scythe is bad as a lot of people would probably enjoy it more b/c its cool and fun (I love it.)  Scythe also works with Wicker/Max to exceed those productions since you can refresh the base grass and twig plants quickly with their books and use the scythe +  lazy gatherer method (+ shadow harvesters) to pick it all up quicker.

Personally I was more so thinking of using it for harvesting monkeytails and bushes more but that does make sense.

[Yuuko]

6 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Personally I was more so thinking of using it for harvesting monkeytails and bushes more but that does make sense.

Yeah crops besides twigs and grass are going to be a lot easier to harvest with the new tool.

I am really glad we got it, to me its the first "late game" item we've received in these patches and I'm in love.  Not only for its harvesting ability which is literally a request I've had for years but also as a weapon that rewards kiting.  I typically play to avoid damage no matter who I'm playing as, and its a reason I gravitate to Wanda over Wolfgang.  Having the scythe reward kiting, and breaking the dark sword barrier is going to help me enjoy combat more on the non-combat characters I like to play like Willow and Winona.  When I play them I usually try to use their thematic strengths to fight the bosses, like catapult and other setups with Winona and fire for Willow.  Sometimes I need to roll up my sleeves and do some manual fighting and the scythe will certainly make it more fun.

Too bad its gated behind already having done most of the combat in the game...  I might just turn those gates on at world gen to access it a bit quicker.

[Mysterious box]

1 minute ago, dois raios said:

all playstyles are possible to make in the settings...

I dont get your point

I mean that's true but there's a massive amount of combinations we can make in the settings that could be considered a playstyle I won't say I'd be against it but why specifically this? I mean we could have serveral others as well such as:

Lights on

No Veg

Hounds and bosses only

No Mobs

No bosses

Light vs Dark

Lunar sided

Shadow sided

Fall of light and Dark (no way to trigger either)

etc.....I won't lie I kinda had fun listing different presets rather than actually trying to prove anything here....

 

3 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

Yeah crops besides twigs and grass are going to be a lot easier to harvest with the new tool.  I am really glad we got it, to me its the first "late game" item we've received in these patches and I'm in love.  Not only for its harvesting ability which is literally a request I've had for years but also as a weapon that rewards kiting.  I typically play to avoid damage no matter who I'm playing as, and its a reason I gravitate to Wanda over Wolfgang.  Having the scythe reward kiting, and breaking the dark sword barrier is going to help me enjoy combat more on the non-combat characters I like to play like Willow and Winona.  When I play them I usually try to use their thematic strengths to fight the bosses, like catapult and other setups with Winona and fire for Willow.  Sometimes I need to roll up my sleeves and do some manual fighting and the scythe will certainly make it more fun.

Too bad its gated behind already having done most of the combat in the game...  I might just turn those gates on at world gen to access it a bit quicker.

True I have been playing quite afew worlds with the events on from the start myself though I feel like the reasoning behind it might be them trying to save time on older tedious tasks to make room for new ones. Part of me thinks we're going to keep seeing things like this in the coming updates.

[GrapeVruit]

47 minutes ago, Dragonboooorn said:

But what I hate? Planar damage. Idk why Klei added planar defense to new mobs, forcing player to use new weapons instead of making them intresting and unique. Jeez, just rework entire combat system.

From what i can discern, Klei wants this new arc to change the way we approach the game, sorta like a new game+, giving us new threats and mechanics that we've never dealt with before while presenting new strategies to deal with them. In From Beyond, we're entering new territory, and the old strategies we used to employ aren't going to be nearly as effective here. In order to adapt, begrudgingly or not, we have to use the new gear. Though, I believe Klei will add new types of gear in future updates, as it seems to me these 2 updates are laying the foundation for new stuff to come. 

[Scrimbles]

3 hours ago, Spino43 said:

True, it almost feels like an UM dev somehow managed to sneak in Klei's dev crew. None of the updates before the new arc were so damn mean to base builders specifically. Even Hamlet's Aporkalypse wasn't so... extreme.

Thankfully it's optional content.

I don't remember adding anything that abruptly smashes all your stuff like boulders do...

[Masked Koopa]

28 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

The two coming to mind to me are a grass gekko farm and twiggy tree farm IF properly set up.

Twiggy trees are probably inferior to Grass gators. Unlike twiggy trees, gators are incredibly compact, and they're nowhere near as much of a hassle to deal with as gekkos, thanks to their large size, meaning you can simply leave a 1 wide gap in your fence as an entrance. Their main downside is that you're probably going to have to telelocate them, and that there can only be 9 per world at once, but in my experience they produce absolutely ludicrous amounts of twigs if you have them loaded a lot of the time.

I reckon the main use of this scythe will probably be moreso for stuff like bananas and stonefruit. banana bushes are a huge hassle to harvest right now, and this'll probably make it a lot more practical.

[Cr4zyFl4mes]

3 minutes ago, Scrimbles said:

Thankfully it's optional content.

I don't remember adding anything that abruptly smashes all your stuff like boulders do...

Doesn't have to be optional on public servers. Although admittedly, they are usually not in a late game phase.

[Theukon-dos]

6 minutes ago, Scrimbles said:

Thankfully it's optional content.

I don't remember adding anything that abruptly smashes all your stuff like boulders do...

Wasn't Antlion a God of Destruction in early UM?

[Dragonboooorn]

1 hour ago, Mysterious box said:

Gotta disagree here the combat mechanics of the new mobs are pretty interesting especially the one that eats you.

I didnt said I dislike new mobs. They are fresh and quite fun, especially the one that gobbles you. I hate planar defense new mobs have.

also wtf people are giving me potato cups again? 

[WhackE]

3 hours ago, Spino43 said:

True, it almost feels like an UM dev somehow managed to sneak in Klei's dev crew. None of the updates before the new arc were so damn mean to base builders specifically. Even Hamlet's Aporkalypse wasn't so... extreme.

Zarklord was an uncomp dev before he was hired by Klei, He also worked on Acid rain in Uncomp (uncomp had a version of acid rain), coincidence? I think not!!! 

[Yuuko]

4 minutes ago, WhackE said:

Zarklord was an uncomp dev before he was hired by Klei, He also worked on Acid rain in Uncomp (uncomp had a version of acid rain), coincidence? I think not!!! 

He also really wants to nerf anything about MetaKnight Wolfgang, which is likely a part of why planar damage was created...

[WhackE]

1 minute ago, Shosuko said:

He also really wants to nerf anything about MetaKnight Wolfgang, which is likely a part of why planar damage was created...

I liked that nerf, Wolf really didn't need 25% extra speed, but that's also something Uncomp had before klei added it.

[Yuuko]

5 minutes ago, WhackE said:

I liked that nerf, Wolf really didn't need 25% extra speed, but that's also something Uncomp had before klei added it.

When uncomp started, sure - but Wendy's rework and the addition of Wanda kinda balanced out Wolfgang by providing other avenues to achieve very high damage.  If they just reworked how he achieved mighty form, and left the rest alone he'd be fine - especially because he can't carry a weight and a cane at the same time so it wouldn't be easy to double dip the speed boosts.

[BoysenSyrup]

Acid Rain barely interacting with the caves as a whole is like... really lame and generally not "swaggy".
Make it do more funny things! Give it more small but neat interactions in the caves. I saw a suggestion somewhere around these parts that suggested allowing Acid Rain to regenerate stalagmites, and that just makes a fairly reasonable amount of sense and would be pretty generally cool.
 

Also, boulder cave-ins are smelly in their current state, at least give some sort of warning and longer period to get the hell out of drive.They make me want to disappear under mysterious circumstances for half a year.

[Theukon-dos]

30 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

When uncomp started, sure - but Wendy's rework and the addition of Wanda kinda balanced out Wolfgang by providing other avenues to achieve very high damage.  If they just reworked how he achieved mighty form, and left the rest alone he'd be fine - especially because he can't carry a weight and a cane at the same time so it wouldn't be easy to double dip the speed boosts.

That would be considered power creep, and is generally considered; by most folks; to be a bad thing. 

[Mysterious box]

1 hour ago, Dragonboooorn said:

I didnt said I dislike new mobs. They are fresh and quite fun, especially the one that gobbles you. I hate planar defense new mobs have.

also wtf people are giving me potato cups again? 

I've been having reading comprehension issues tonight sorry.

Spoiler

Why won't potato cup senpai notice me though...

 

16 minutes ago, BoysenSyrup said:

Acid Rain barely interacting with the caves as a whole is like... really lame and generally not "swaggy".
Make it do more funny things! Give it more small but neat interactions in the caves. I saw a suggestion somewhere around these parts that suggested allowing Acid Rain to regenerate stalagmites, and that just makes a fairly reasonable amount of sense and would be pretty generally cool.
 

Also, boulder cave-ins are smelly in their current state, at least give some sort of warning and longer period to get the hell out of drive.They make me want to disappear under mysterious circumstances for half a year.

So far it makes bats eyes green and boosts their performance but I'd love to see more variations due to it as well I definitely think it should negatively effect rock lobsters. Perhaps even power up mush gnomes but lower their hp considering it blooms wormwood but still hurts him. 

[goblinball]

2 hours ago, GelatinousCube said:

Blizzards could totally be a thing that adds difficulty but doesn't destroy structures/bases and would be awesome. We could also have days in summer that are scorching where you MUST be as cold as possible or you'll walk slower and be lethargic and possibly even faint to heatstroke temporarily- similar to being put to sleep by gestalts.

Tbh no matter what you do ppl WILL get upset by it and complain simply because you are inconveniencing and challenging them in a field/place/season which they’ve already mastered and they don’t want to lose that mastery and control over that part of the game

say what you want about pirate monkey raids and their execution but the amount of ppl who were upset simply by the presence of a new threat in the ocean which wasn’t there before is a good example of how this just doesn’t work

the only way to make this idea of new threats later in progression work is to make them not actually threatening or inconveniencing at all. That’s why terraria works, stuff like hm and the post plant dungeon just add weak enemies and new powerful loot to places you wouldn’t really go to anymore in the first place (and even if they are powerful and kill you, it’s no big deal since you respawn near-instantly and only lose coins anyways).

this just really doesn’t work in a survival game at all since obviously this new stuff NEEDS to be threatening and tough to survive through otherwise it’s kinda failing at being a survival game, but it can’t be threatening for the reasons I stated earlier. Why try to survive and progress if your reward will just be making it harder to survive?

[Theukon-dos]

4 minutes ago, goblinball said:

say what you want about pirate monkey raids and their execution but the amount of ppl who were upset simply by the presence of a new threat in the ocean which wasn’t there before is a good example of how this just doesn’t work

Yeah, because the ocean stunk and Klei went out of their way to make it harder despite already being infamous for not having much out there. You are right in saying that there will always be people who will complain, but the complaints about pirate raids were and still are extremely valid. 

[JosePapp]

Honestly i just don't trust the update chains anymore. RoT added a lot of cool yet not cooked all the way ideas and then it just suddenly ended. 

These updates could've added some really cool horizontal progression and fun interactions yet are opting not to.

Stuff like lunar spillage coming out from lunar drifts or the scythe having ramping damage on its own with the set bonus being a dodge or balls of dark light would make for very interesting items that could also justify the challenge required to get them, yet we're left with updates feeling half baked in the promise of something grand to come, it's just that... It didn't come last time, so why would it now?

 

[Baark0]

Most items arent unique enough to warrant dealing with the bs the rifts cause. I treat dst as a casual sandbox game, and nothing is more annoying than having brightshades constantly possessing my decorative plants, thank god I made my world before the update came out so most of my plants are immune, but it basically means any future build is either gonna have a constant infestation of brightshades or wont have plants in it. Will probably turn off earthquakes when shadow rifts get added unless more warning time is given or boulders are removed, don't feel like losing 20+ ruins clears worth of gems to boulders.

[Yuuko]

2 hours ago, Theukon-dos said:

That would be considered power creep, and is generally considered; by most folks; to be a bad thing. 

Power creep can be bad, but not always.  Neither Wendy or Wanda really exceed Wolfgang's damage, they just give us more options.  I'm okay with it.