Is it me, or those new updates are a build up for something bigger?

[XKrulis]

In the Curse of Moon Quay, we find a suspicious portal rift, in Wilson rework, we find a new boss, which I assume, came from different possible portal rift, and now in beta update, there is a moon rifts. Is it me, but I'm feeling that those updates are building up for something massive? Especially when new Weeping drops new different nightmare fuel, and moon rifts create different moon shards. I think is it gonna a fight between shadows and moon, but that may be just a theory. Just sharing my thoughts about it

 

(Sorry if there will grammatical errors, English not my first language :P )

[Guille6785]

updates have been building up to something bigger for the past 4 years and it never goes anywhere

[XKrulis]

Is it that "Return of Them" kinda had a build up to the Celestial Champion, or that doesn't count?

[Mike23Ua]

You know back when I originally bought the first don’t starve in like 2015 when it released on Xbox I bought it based entirely on the product description of being a survival game where I’d get to explore randomly generated worlds full of things that hate me and want me to die.

Flash Forward to 2023 and I’ve grown “tired” of DS/DSTs predictable world generation that aren’t all that “random” at all.. the new Rifts in the current Beta have the “Potential” to change that for me if Klei will take my suggestion for Rift Islands and run with it.. it would (for me at least) FINALLY give me the massive amount of randomly generated stuff I’ve always desired, give me an actual REASON to build a boat and go sailing out in the otherwise boring highly empty oceans, and most importantly- live up to its original promise of exploring worlds full of things that hate me and want me to die.

There’s also the original promise of what the Return of Them

https://dontstarve.fandom.com/wiki/Return_of_Them

Was going to actually do for the game- which is:

“Travel to new LANDS, with new Biomes, Creatures & More”

Other than Lunar Island, and Moon Quay, there ain’t all that much “Lands” to travel to… 

But these “Rifts” & the “Unnatural Portal” are the most promising things towards that original promise to me yet.

Its unlikely.. but- I can hope.

[xhyom]

On 4/7/2023 at 3:28 PM, XKrulis said:

Is it that "Return of Them" kinda had a build up to the Celestial Champion, or that doesn't count?

The way we receive the content in pieces makes it seem like nothing ever happens, it's always: a new update happens, it's a new boss or a new mob everyone does it once or twice and forgets about it and it repeats throughout Return of Them, always with this premise that there is more to come. When we started exploring the sea there was nothing there, when the sea received biomes we basically went straight to this biome, and then we went to the next one since the other one was already old and obsolete, the same with the lunar champion (That nowadays, seeing the whole work, I find it extremely good, concise and very fun, but following each step at a time was actually quite tiring). It might be interesting for Klei to keep the game always updating but the reality is that by the time we get to where we should be, the content is already old and it makes it looks like we haven't moved.

The new updates we are receiving now may even be interesting and have huge relevance for the future, but for now they are simply dots on the map, and when these dots are connected everything will look much smaller than it would in a major update. I really hope that the next updates that according to the Roadmap will make drastical changes really take a bigger step.

 

Edit: I went to take a look and it took 3 years to get to the point of fighting the champion, and it's not even many updates to get there, but we deviated a lot from the focus several times

August 15, 2019 - Turn of Tides - Moon falls etc...

April 23, 2020 - She Sells Sea Shells - Pearl and Crab King

October 22, 2020 - Forgotten Knowledge - Archives

May 5, 2021 - Eye of the Storm Update - And finally, the final boss

[Theukon-dos]

3 hours ago, xhyom said:

The way we receive the content in pieces makes it seem like nothing ever happens, it's always: a new update happens, it's a new boss or a new mob everyone does it once or twice and forgets about it and it repeats throughout Return of Them, always with this premise that there is more to come. When we started exploring the sea there was nothing there, when the sea received biomes we basically went straight to this biome, and then we went to the next one since the other one was already old and obsolete, the same with the lunar guardian (That nowadays, seeing the whole work, I find it extremely good, concise and very fun, but following each step at a time was actually quite tiring). It might be interesting for Klei to keep the game always updating but the reality is that by the time we get to where we should be, the content is already old and it makes it looks like we haven't moved.

As someone who actively enjoys sailing and does it on a regular basis (With mods), I think the bigger problem is that a lot of the ocean content just didn't really add much to the survival experience. When you look at DST's "Meta" before and after the Return of them arc of updates, things just haven't changed much sense then.

 

Before RoT, Hambats and Dark Swords where the best weapon options. After RoT, Hambats and Dark Swords are still the best weapon options, unless you're fighting one of two specific bosses (Shadow Pieces and AFW)

 

Before RoT, Pierogie, Meatballs, and Meaty Stew where the best food options. After RoT, Stonefruit and Kelp are pretty good options. But those where both introduced at the VERY start of the update chain. And both Reap What You Sow and Tall Scotch Eggs did WAAAAAAAY more to upend the game's food meta than anything on the ocean.

 

Before RoT, the best ways to deal with seasons was Thermal Stone > Eyebrella > Thermal Stone + Luxury Fan/caves. And after RoT, the best way to deal with seasons is  Thermal Stone > Eyebrella > Thermal Stone + Luxury Fan/Caves. Sure, Above-average trees can prevent wildfires in your base, but only if you build your base around the shoreline.

 

Ultimately, I'd say the reason RoT felt like nothing happened is because... nothing really did. The same strategies that worked before the ocean where still effective after it, and nothing added in RoT was strong enough to out-class or even match that which the game already had. 

3 hours ago, xhyom said:

The new updates we are receiving now may even be interesting and have huge relevance for the future, but for now they are simply dots on the map, and when these dots are connected everything will look much smaller than it would in a major update. I really hope that the next updates that according to the Roadmap will make drastical changes really take a bigger step.

 

Admittedly I'm worried about the direction these updates are taking in general. But given that we're finally through the character refreshes, I suspect we'll see more of them a lot more frequently. 

[lakhnish]

6 hours ago, XKrulis said:

Is it that "Return of Them" kinda had a build up to the Celestial Champion, or that doesn't count?

It's mainly b/c it took too long and whatever hype that gets built up ends up dying only to then be revitalized by another lore heavy update before the cycle continues again.

We still don't know who Them actually is (is it Metheus, is it the shadows, is it the lunar energy, is it all three), despite the arc being developed over three years, which says a lot.

[Antynomity]

I dislike the dripfeed of updates. All of this just feels so disconnected, every single time at that.

[goblinball]

23 hours ago, XKrulis said:

Is it that "Return of Them" kinda had a build up to the Celestial Champion, or that doesn't count?

 

[Antynomity]

3 minutes ago, yourAnty said:

I dislike the dripfeed of updates. All of this just feels so disconnected, every single time at that.

Though I get it why they do it like that, it keeps players interested for longer and makes it more profitable.

[Szczuku]

On 4/8/2023 at 3:28 AM, lakhnish said:

We still don't know who Them actually is (is it Metheus, is it the shadows, is it the lunar energy, is it all three), despite the arc being developed over three years, which says a lot.

As far as I know:

-Metheus is just the name of the Ancient Queen/Torchbearer (who was corrupted by the shadows and is most likely fused with Charlie right now). Definitely not Them as Ancient Fuelweaver makes a clear distinction between Them and Metheus

-Shadow Creatures that we fight in-game are most likely what the Ancients had become once nightmares engulfed the ruins. At least the Terrorbeak. Stuff like Shadow Watchers and Pieces I could consider something like 'the servants of Them'

-Lunar Energy, that we free with all 3 altars is just Alter's ('Moon''s) limb, that it dropped with the lunar island

-They in the canon lore, as of right now, is nothing more than a nickname given to the eldritch gods of the Constant: Alter, Gnaw, the Shadow Eldritch Gods. However that lore is stupid and was most likely written on a knee as an excuse for having a gameplay-lore arc titled 'Return of Them' end without Them actually returning.

As far as I'm concerned They are the Shadow Eldritch Gods, the ones that control the Nightmare Throne, that brought the ruin upon the Ancients, the Eye of the Gateway that we see in the murals.

Funny thing is, even the writers themselves seem to be ignoring the lore of Eye of the Storm as in the stage play the mirror character (who represents the Shadow Eldritch Gods) is refered to as 'They'

[Baark0]

Im a firm believer that the ocean was the biggest mistake kleis made, sure sailing is cool and all but the amount of time they've spent filling out the ocean couldve been time spent updating the caves or adding more features geared towards late game worlds. Instead of sailing to the ocean, what if there was a portal you had to find, maybe unlocked by killing fuelweaver, that would take you to the lunar island.

[gamehun20]

21 minutes ago, Baark0 said:

maybe unlocked by killing fuelweaver, that would take you to the lunar island

Then you wouldn't really be able to pick which side you want fight now would you? And that could be said about anything if they spent time on updating something else instead of updating <blank> it would be good for late game.

[Zeklo]

1 hour ago, gamehun20 said:

Then you wouldn't really be able to pick which side you want fight now would you?

This statement did make me realize how ironic it is that you 'pick a side' by killing the respective 'figurehead' rather than their opposite.

[lakhnish]

5 hours ago, Szczuku said:

Metheus is just the name of the Ancient Queen/Torchbearer

I guess that does clear it up a little for me, since we got that METHEUS IS HERE message in the description for the Axiom Visus trailer.

5 hours ago, Szczuku said:

They in the canon lore, as of right now, is nothing more than a nickname given to the eldritch gods of the Constant: Alter, Gnaw, the Shadow Eldritch Gods. However that lore is stupid and was most likely written on a knee as an excuse for having a gameplay-lore arc titled 'Return of Them' end without Them actually returning.

As far as I'm concerned They are the Shadow Eldritch Gods, the ones that control the Nightmare Throne, that brought the ruin upon the Ancients, the Eye of the Gateway that we see in the murals.

Funny thing is, even the writers themselves seem to be ignoring the lore of Eye of the Storm as in the stage play the mirror character (who represents the Shadow Eldritch Gods) is refered to as 'They'

Yeah, that's where I was getting super confused too. 

Them was very early on a reference to shadows (like Maxwell's quote for a lantern in in DS being "I hope it keeps Them away") and only reinforced by multiple quotes elsewhere. 

But then they made the arc Return of Them be about the moon and lunar energy, only for Charlie's play to say that Them is actually the shadows.

And then at no point does Maxwell refer to the moon as Them but rather as the "moon", but by the end of it, his examine for the defeated CC is along the lines that the energy feels familiar to him, making me think that is somehow related to nightmare fuel?

I also got confused by the Axiom Visus trailer cause of that METHEUS IS HERE description and thinking that it was somehow linked to theme of Them returning in RoT.

[Castiliano]

20 hours ago, goblinball said:

 

I must admit, I like the taste of having something in there that has no use yet. It is like an indication of what is to come in the future. It's been taking a long time, but I can't wait to see what Sealed Portal will be! 

[-Variant]

15 hours ago, Zeklo said:

This statement did make me realize how ironic it is that you 'pick a side' by killing the respective 'figurehead' rather than their opposite.

Been chuckling at this for a while now.

Buuuttt if we wanna get specific, we killed Alter's guardian, and the FW is trying to stop us from messing with the portal!
In Alter's case I guess it's sort of like a glorified way of proving your worth by offing its child or something. 

Oooorrrr maybe it'll loop around. We start the Alter quest, get the Lunar stuff to then take on the true figurehead, vice versa! Possibilities...!

[Cassielu]

18 hours ago, Szczuku said:

Funny thing is, even the writers themselves seem to be ignoring the lore of Eye of the Storm as in the stage play the mirror character (who represents the Shadow Eldritch Gods) is refered to as 'They'

The mirror is not referred to as "Them", it says only that mirrors want to "set 'Them' free". And that's exactly what Charlie has been doing.

[bloopah]

17 hours ago, Baark0 said:

Im a firm believer that the ocean was the biggest mistake kleis made, sure sailing is cool and all but the amount of time they've spent filling out the ocean couldve been time spent updating the caves or adding more features geared towards late game worlds. Instead of sailing to the ocean, what if there was a portal you had to find, maybe unlocked by killing fuelweaver, that would take you to the lunar island.

honestly there's nothing wrong with the concept of a dst ocean, the mistake is that there's nothing IN the dst ocean besides large trees, kelp, fishes and the two worst bosses in the game

imagine shipwrecked but the only stuff in the ocean was seaweed, shoals and sea hounds, not much better than dst's oceans

[XKrulis]

So, I guess Klei doesn't reveal all their cards at once (or maybe they forget???)

But I can understand why people doesn't enjoy sailing and in general whole ocean

Do you think that Return of Them arc had this, let's say quality because of the pandemic? I'm just curious if pandemic never happened, would we get more content in those updates or not?

[Mike23Ua]

16 minutes ago, XKrulis said:

So, I guess Klei doesn't reveal all their cards at once (or maybe they forget???)

But I can understand why people doesn't enjoy sailing and in general whole ocean

Do you think that Return of Them arc had this, let's say quality because of the pandemic? I'm just curious if pandemic never happened, would we get more content in those updates or not?

It’s hard to say really what Klei is up to, when they released the very first Return of Them update they stated that they knew that the content being offered was very light, and that more would be added as time went on.

So with that: We all assumed that we were playing an Unfinished Beta, However the things that came later actually ended up having very little if any connection to the first update.

(First Return of Them Update) Turn of Tides, Salty Dog, Hook Line & Inker, She Sells Sea Shells, Troubled Waters, Forgotten Knowledge, Reap What You Sow, Eye of The Storm (Season Finale Ending)

What went horribly horribly wrong here??? Why did we bounce from cool moon mutated horror abominations & exploring new islands with new mobs and resources on them to several updates of Medicore At Sea Ocean Content, to a pretty cool Underground Archive and Moon Grotto caused by the leaking Moon crater to seep into caves, to a completely unrelated Farming Overhaul, to The MoonStorm Update where Wagstaff is up to who only knows what & the summoning of a Moon God Boss.

This is the Season Finale Cliff Hanger Klei left Return of Them with.

Other updates that came out AFTER The season finale (that have no shared singular Themed Name like Return of Them) Are: 

Waterlogged, Eye for An Eye (the Terraria Cross-Over) and Setting the Stage & Curse of Moon Quay.

Yes Curse of Moon Quay came out 9 Months ago, and until the other days Beta update- was the last “Game Content” Update we had gotten (not counting character reworks with the SOLE Exception being Wilson’s which added some new Gameplay content Alongside his Refresh with a Nightmare pig and new resource/items made from that resource).

Season Finale means that it’ll continue where it left off at though.. right? What connection does ANY of this have to the start and end of Return of Them?

9 months after the last major content update (Moon Quay) we have whatever’s currently in Beta with the Portal Rifts and Brightshade Invasions..

But I’m Failing to see the connection between it all.. and I for one would love for a Klei dev to step in and explain exactly what the heck is happening.

The 2023 Roadmap promises well dive deeper into Charlie and Wagstaff stories and whatever they’re up to- and maybe there’s even going to be a cool animated short when the current Beta goes public that ties it in well with previous updates.. but for right NOW

Klei’s Content Updates & Story Progress have their players going “????????”

[abrocator]

Certain game designers want to create open-ended questions and never properly answer them while the players might want to get answers to those questions. So when the game designer is asked to create more content, he just creates more questions.

It’s a Lovecraftian world. Maybe it’s incomprehensible?

I don’t know if this is what’s going on here.

[willell]

100%

[GenomeSquirrel]

My complaint would be that by building on top of existing content, they are locking out players not doing endgame content. Perhaps Wilson is an attempt to push it, but I don’t have the interest or free time to repeatedly jump through any of it.

[maxwell_winters]

17 hours ago, -Variant said:

In Alter's case I guess it's sort of like a glorified way of proving your worth by offing its child or something. 

It's actually Wagstaff who is currently the leader of the Lunar side. He rewards players for helping him harvest the moon's powers. New Wilson's affinity description references him. too. Similarly, Charlie reward the prayer for helping her to weaken AF until she can steal him.