Hostile Flares eliminates the rationality of the old Deerclops raid mechanism

[dois raios]

i just dont want hostile flares becoming useless in the game, like, it solves 2 big problems we have when playing, scarcity of boss loot (when playing with friends or in pub) and pirate raids being too rare. 

And not only that, i wouldnt be surprised if in some future update or QoL,  klei change the timer to bosses reappear in the world, like bee queen, dfly, fuelweaver, etc. Because it locks gameplay so much, 20 days is 2 hours waiting to fight again a boss, it is fantastic that you can fight a boss consecutive times, deerclops is the second (cc is the first) boss to implement this mechanic in the game, and i hope more and more bosses receive this same treatment.

[Mysterious box]

1 hour ago, HowlVoid said:

Then you agree there are things in the game that are not optional.

Combat is almost not optional, weather is not optional, characters are not optional (you must choose one), etc there are many things in the game that are not optional.

That proves your statement is false.

How you decide to approaches the game is entirely in your control, not based on the consensus on what may be deemed optimal or not.

Given that's the case, no one is forcing you to spawn a deerclops. If everyone on the server wants to have the choice in their hands and not have it decided by a /roll, you are entirely entitled to your eyebrella-less pity party corner of self-loathing. Because it seems to me that you'd even think it an undeserving reward to give yourself this items, given how you're approaching the topic.

Almost not optional means that it's still optional so how does this prove my statement false? If you try hard enough you can avoid combat or you can turn things off that could become a combat situation to you for example But let me ask you this if the idea is that everyone deserves a eyebrella on the first year so no one is left out because such a thing would be unfair how exactly does this justification stack up against the other bosses of the game only deerclop's loot is worthy? This isn't a consensus on what's optimal or not the reason it went in this direction was because of people making the implication that reason wholesale deerclops was ok is because eyebrella is not that good which I still feel is a poor excuse.

[HowlVoid]

28 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Almost not optional means that it's still optional so how does this prove my statement false?

You said almost everything in the game is optional and I proved you wrong.

There are tons of things in the game that are not optional. Health, Sanity, and Hunger are not optional.

28 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

If you try hard enough you can avoid combat or you can turn things off that could become a combat situation to you for example But let me ask you this if the idea is that everyone deserves a eyebrella on the first year

There is no "everyone deserves", you simply have the option to get one. Don't, if you don't want one. It's that simple.

28 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

 so no one is left out because such a thing would be unfair how exactly does this justification stack up against the other bosses of the game only deerclop's loot is worthy?

I keep telling you this over and over again. Other bosses with weather protection items are already within the same ball park 

28 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

This isn't a consensus on what's optimal or not

Are you serious? You've made the claim several times now that this item overshadows other items (a subjective meta opinion). This is going to be a never ending argument if you can't remember your own points. 

28 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

the reason it went in this direction was because of people making the implication that reason wholesale deerclops was ok is because eyebrella is not that good which I still feel is a poor excuse.

Who said it wasn't good? People get this confused all the time. Just because you think an items is useful for something doesn't meant it's extremely powerful.

Are you seriously imply it break the game or something?

[Mysterious box]

9 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

You said almost everything in the game is optional and I proved you wrong.

There are tons of things in the game that are not optional. Health, Sanity, and Hunger are not optional.

I mean sure basic stats aren't optional but there are plenty of things that are combat, foods, weapons, world gen, seasons, etc. this is a sandbox you know.

 

11 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

There is no "everyone deserves", you simply have the option to get one. Don't, if you don't want one. It's that simple.

And I still ask what's the justification compared to other boss loot.

 

12 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

I keep telling you this over and over again. Other bosses with weather protection items are already within the same ball park

And I keep telling you that's besides the point the point the point isn't this seasonal protection boss drop vs that seasonal protection boss drop.

 

14 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

Are you serious? You've made the claim several times now that this item overshadows other items (a subjective meta opinion). This is going to be a never ending argument if you can't remember your own points. 

I used the wrong choice of words for this fair but the point I'm trying to make is deerclop's eye isn't a requirement we have plenty of ways to deal with spring and summer so there isn't a need for the eye to be guaranteed drop for everyone on the server the argument that seems to keep being pushed is well why not and I've responded in kind with well why not for other things. 

[Well-met]

4 hours ago, HowlVoid said:

I'm still trying to figure out how something optional is ruining everyones experience.

"If I don't use it, no one should either"

Is all I keep hearing.

why have all those medium-tier clothing in the game if 8 people can get an eyebrella on first winter?

this indirectly harms the base content, it has nothing to do with people feelings.

 

[HowlVoid]

6 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

I mean sure basic stats aren't optional but there are plenty of things that are combat, foods, weapons, world gen, seasons, etc. this is a sandbox you know.

Again, your point was that everything was optional. 

On the point of a sandbox game though, yes there many ways to address a situation. That includes rain... Just so you know.

6 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

And I still ask what's the justification compared to other boss loot.

Huh? Ok, I can't keep explaining the same thing.

6 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

And I keep telling you that's besides the point the point the point isn't this seasonal protection boss drop vs that seasonal protection boss drop.

Why is deerclops an exception? A ruled followed by every boss with items that are similar in balance?

6 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

I used the wrong choice of words for this fair but the point I'm trying to make is deerclop's eye isn't a requirement we have plenty of ways to deal with spring and summer so there isn't a need for the eye to be guaranteed drop for everyone on the server the argument that seems to keep being pushed is well why not and I've responded in kind with well why not for other things. 

It's not a requirement! Lmao who said it was? 

Those ways of dealing with those seasons are still valid. What's keeping you from still using them? Use them. The transition from the single player version to the multiplayer version has been smoothen out over the years. This is no exception.

5 minutes ago, Well-met said:

why have all those medium-tier clothing if 8 people can get an eyebrella on first winter?

Why did you use them in the single player game? Could you always defeat deerclops on your own? What of new players that bought this game out of curiosity with their also new to the franchise friends. Are they going to kill deerclops on the very first encounter? Everything has a place in progression.

Would you believe me if I told you I know people who STILL think he can't be tanked despite playing the game for  years?

5 minutes ago, Well-met said:

this indirectly harms the base content, it has nothing to do with people feelings.

The base content? You mean the one transitioned from the base single player game where everyone got their very own eyebrella? 

You're right though, it doesn't have anything to do with feeling, which has me very confused with why people care about changing something that has been a staple for every dont starve game in existence.

Kill boss A

Get item A

As far as I can tell deerclops is very much comparable to every other seasonal boss in the game now.

[Cheggf]

I agree with all the people saying to just not use it if you don't like it. I think we should go a bit further, though, and add a new item to the game that's an indestructible 95% dr, 100% wetness resist, 480 insulation against both weathers, 6.7san/m, -75% hunger drain helmet as a starting item to all characters. If you don't want to use it you can simply drop it on the floor when you spawn, so this would surely only improve the game with no potential drawbacks. 

[Rylanor]

8 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

So I can completely understand why some people want everyone to play by the same rules, and if you happen to dislike the settings I have toggled- maybe leave and find a host whose settings are more your style?

Yet we were able to spawn more than one Deerclops for years by just setting him to "More", as any other giant, why would we need separate item that allow to do that for cheap cost everywhere, regardless of host rules? Its not as much of a "just don't use it" problem really, hostile flare isn't problematic for solo players, its anyway impossible to craft Hondiuses more often that one per 21 day, so its issue only for multiplayer. Ability to just get as much Eyebrellas as needed make all spring/summer clothing near useless, why use something like floral shirt or ice cube if everyone can just have far superior item? Lets not pretend killing Deerclops is hard either, its really not, especially for 2+ players. If Deerclops was supposed to be "punishing" for player to not farm Walruses too much, hounds would be far better at this role, without making seven unique clothing items pointless to craft

[Rylanor]

6 hours ago, dois raios said:

i just dont want hostile flares becoming useless in the game, like, it solves 2 big problems we have when playing, scarcity of boss loot (when playing with friends or in pub) and pirate raids being too rare. 

And not only that, i wouldnt be surprised if in some future update or QoL,  klei change the timer to bosses reappear in the world, like bee queen, dfly, fuelweaver, etc. Because it locks gameplay so much, 20 days is 2 hours waiting to fight again a boss, it is fantastic that you can fight a boss consecutive times, deerclops is the second (cc is the first) boss to implement this mechanic in the game, and i hope more and more bosses receive this same treatment.

You can always set bosses to "More" and "Tons", there was never a problem with that. Hostile flare still would be useful if it only spawned Pirate Raids, and scarcity of boss loot is way to important for game balance right now, it would be too damaging for everyone to just have best items in first year, ignoring everything else. Actually, respawn timer for Dragonfly on "Tons" is around 4-5 days if im not mistaken, thats 14 DF per year, as opposed to 3.5 normally, like, Klei wouldn't need to implement any change to boss timers when players already have full control

[LiamAshvinn001]

Guys... does this mean that we can use Deerclop's eye as an actual healing source now?

[Spino43]

7 minutes ago, LiamAshvinn001 said:

Guys... does this mean that we can use Deerclop's eye as an actual healing source now?

Me proceeding to stock 90 eyeballs in each revival spot throughout the world for easy food/healing

[dois raios]

2 hours ago, Rylanor said:

it would be too damaging for everyone to just have best items in first year,

Yeah, lets also lock ruins content in the first year because it is to damage for everyone to have the best gear in the first year...

About the rest of your post, i dont change my world settings neither world generation.

[Cheggf]

1 minute ago, dois raios said:

Yeah, lets also lock ruins content in the first year because it is to damage for everyone to have the best gear in the first year... 

If there was an easily obtainable item that spawned a few clockworks on you which dropped random ruins items then that would also be stupid. Current ruins does not let everyone immediately have all the best gear, even if someone is able to tackle the dangerous ruins the amount of loot inside is very limited. If everyone is using it as their normal day to day gear (even assuming there was enough to share with everyone to begin with) it'll run out pretty fast, then you have to kill SCP and AFW.

[cybers2001]

7 hours ago, HowlVoid said:

Why did you use them in the single player game? Could you always defeat deerclops on your own?

In DS, giant encounters are entirely random, and it’s possible to go multiple winters without ever seeing a Deerclops. I think I recall once having a playthrough where I saw one giant across 4 or 5 consecutive seasons.

I remember at the time thinking how much of a QoL boost it was to have deerclops be on a non-random timer when I transitioned to DST.

[Bellium]

The eye brella is just the summer equivilant of a beefalo hat, and I see no one complaining about how abundant and OP beefalo hats are. I mean all you have to do it kill a few beefalo until they drop a horn and if a horn drops early, you can to find them in the night and click on with a razor! Invalidating the winter season with such ease, shake my head how Klei makes DST easier year after year. Rain is sloved with the issue of simply a some pig skin, silk, twigs and grass. then no more wetness! Or you can make a rain hat for a few common mobs lying around in certain biomes along with a few bone shards and get quick and easy 70% wetness protection without even having to go through fighting a boss, and if you ever want to dry off you just make a parasol with flowers and sticks and light a tree on fire. 

I really don't get why people have such a problem with this item, fighting deerclops is more of a hassle than any other form of sesonal protection and as such defeating her yields more rewards. This isn't even mentioning the fact that there's roughly only a 60% chance for a deerclops to spawn from a raid and glommer only drops goop every 2-4 days. with a default server size of 6 (normally I see more people in a single server) and glommer goop spawning every 2 days, the chances of everyone getting one in the first winter aren't that high. 

And I re-iterate the fact that the beefalo hat is easier to find and get and I still see people constantly running about without one, I don't think the problem is with the item itself but that some people feel forced to get the "best" item possible every time and feel like the balance of the game should come from that sort of position, instead of a more casual expirence where a player may have some glommer gloop lying about and decide they want to summon mctusk to around where they are, and accidentally spawn a deerclops.

[Rylanor]

55 minutes ago, dois raios said:

Yeah, lets also lock ruins content in the first year because it is to damage for everyone to have the best gear in the first year...

About the rest of your post, i dont change my world settings neither world generation.

Ruins are WAY harder than killing Deerclops, so unlike Deerclops, high risk = high reward. And if you don't change world settings, why should Klei do that for you with lowering boss timers then?  

[cybers2001]

2 minutes ago, Bellium said:

And I re-iterate the fact that the beefalo hat is easier to find and get and I still see people constantly running about without one, I don't think the problem is with the item itself but that some people feel forced to get the "best" item possible every time and feel like the balance of the game should come from that sort of position, instead of a more casual expirence where a player may have some glommer gloop lying about and decide they want to summon mctusk to around where they are, and accidentally spawn a deerclopse.

Most people don't run around with beefalo hats because thermal stones exist, though. I'd say the two aren't that comparable.

[Rylanor]

4 minutes ago, Bellium said:

The eye brella is just the summer equivilant of a beefalo hat, and I see no one complaining about how abundant and OP beefalo hats are. I mean all you have to do it kill a few beefalo until they drop a horn and if a horn drops early, you can to find them in the night and click on with a razor! Invalidating the winter season with such ease, shake my head how Klei makes DST easier year after year. Rain is sloved with the issue of simply a some pig skin, silk, twigs and grass. then no more wetness! Or you can make a rain hat for a few common mobs lying around in certain biomes along with a few bone shards and get quick and easy 70% wetness protection without even having to go through fighting a boss, and if you ever want to dry off you just make a parasol with flowers and sticks and light a tree on fire. 

I really don't get why people have such a problem with this item, fighting deerclopse is more of a hassle than any other form of sesonal protection and as such defeating her yields more rewards. This isn't even mentioning the fact that there's roughly only a 60% chance for a deerclopse to spawn from a raid and glommer only drops goop every 2-4 days. with a default server size of 6 (normally I see more people in a single server) and glommer goop spawning every 2 days, the chances of everyone getting one in the first winter aren't that high. 

And I re-iterate the fact that the beefalo hat is easier to find and get and I still see people constantly running about without one, I don't think the problem is with the item itself but that some people feel forced to get the "best" item possible every time and feel like the balance of the game should come from that sort of position, instead of a more casual expirence where a player may have some glommer gloop lying about and decide they want to summon mctusk to around where they are, and accidentally spawn a deerclopse.

Except Beefalo Hat is useful only one season, unlike Eyebrella. Also, 100% wetness protection + full lighting protection in single headwear slot AND best insulation in summer is kinda better than Beefalo Hat idk. Hostile flare shouldn't spawn new Deerclops, thats only thing so many people including me complain about

[Bellium]

20 minutes ago, cybers2001 said:

Most people don't run around with beefalo hats because thermal stones exist, though. I'd say the two aren't that comparable.

Wait people don't carry around thermal stones (for winter and summer) as well as a piece of temperature clothing protection like a beefalo hat or umbrella  It looks like I'm now the one learning about how other people expirence the game! I thought that a thermal + atleast something like a bunny hat was a must

[ArubaroBeefalo]

23 minutes ago, Bellium said:

Wait people don't carry around thermal stones (for winter and summer) as well as a piece of temperature clothing protection like a beefalo hat or umbrella  It looks like I'm now the one learning about how other people expirence the game! I thought that a thermal + atleast something like a bunny hat was a must

is a waste of inventory slots

[Cheggf]

58 minutes ago, Bellium said:

The eye brella is just the summer equivilant of a beefalo hat, and I see no one complaining about how abundant and OP beefalo hats are. I mean all you have to do it kill a few beefalo until they drop a horn and if a horn drops early, you can to find them in the night and click on with a razor! Invalidating the winter season with such ease, shake my head how Klei makes DST easier year after year. Rain is sloved with the issue of simply a some pig skin, silk, twigs and grass. then no more wetness! Or you can make a rain hat for a few common mobs lying around in certain biomes along with a few bone shards and get quick and easy 70% wetness protection without even having to go through fighting a boss, and if you ever want to dry off you just make a parasol with flowers and sticks and light a tree on fire. 

I really don't get why people have such a problem with this item, fighting deerclops is more of a hassle than any other form of sesonal protection and as such defeating her yields more rewards. This isn't even mentioning the fact that there's roughly only a 60% chance for a deerclops to spawn from a raid and glommer only drops goop every 2-4 days. with a default server size of 6 (normally I see more people in a single server) and glommer goop spawning every 2 days, the chances of everyone getting one in the first winter aren't that high. 

And I re-iterate the fact that the beefalo hat is easier to find and get and I still see people constantly running about without one, I don't think the problem is with the item itself but that some people feel forced to get the "best" item possible every time and feel like the balance of the game should come from that sort of position, instead of a more casual expirence where a player may have some glommer gloop lying about and decide they want to summon mctusk to around where they are, and accidentally spawn a deerclops.

If not being able to fight, chop, or use a walking cane is so strong why do you even need the eyebrella? Apparently it doesn't do anything useful so why do you want it? 

[Notecja]

6 hours ago, Cheggf said:

I agree with all the people saying to just not use it if you don't like it. I think we should go a bit further, though, and add a new item to the game that's an indestructible 95% dr, 100% wetness resist, 480 insulation against both weathers, 6.7san/m, -75% hunger drain helmet as a starting item to all characters. If you don't want to use it you can simply drop it on the floor when you spawn, so this would surely only improve the game with no potential drawbacks. 

That's really salty/bitter. To me is not a comparable thing. Especially since Wicker rework, where even as WX I never had to use Eyebrella in 800+ days world. So yes, if you have Wicker then that item is quite useless? Then why so much care? Why so bitter about fighting a medium sized early boss, that makes many early games "turn off"?

[Cheggf]

3 minutes ago, Notecja said:

That's really salty/bitter. To me is not a comparable thing. Especially since Wicker rework, where even as WX I never had to use Eyebrella in 800+ days world. So yes, if you have Wicker then that item is quite useless? Then why so much care? Why so bitter about fighting a medium sized early boss, that makes many early games "turn off"?

What

[Bellium]

5 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

If not being able to fight, chop, or use a walking cane is so strong why do you even need the eyebrella? Apparently it doesn't do anything useful so why do you want it? 

I never said it didn't do anything useful, I just said it's more convinient than other summer/ spring items and is therefore harder to get, but also worth more. It has the same summer protection as a beefalo hat has in winter, and in spring times it does the same thing as an umbrella + football helmate or a rain hat + pretty parasol. 

And for whatever it's worth I typically don't use eye-brellas anyway, walking canes are good-to-haves but not absolutly required, and you have a nice buffer of time to fight/ chop with a tool in the main hand before you need to re-equip the sesonal protection. Rain hats and umbrella's are good enough for me, so I use them. If I wanted better I would fight deerclops, just like anyone who wants to should be able to do.

[Notecja]

1 minute ago, Cheggf said:

What

Since Wicker rework I never had to use Eyebrella. That I said.

And since I played with different groups of people, I know for most of them Deerclops is still a huge deal (ofc not for those in that 800 days world, but in other games).