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Hostile Flares eliminates the rationality of the old Deerclops raid mechanism


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Well. If you don't know attack mechanism of deerclops, or you are a ruthless deerclops butcher, let me introduce for you quickly: within 30 days, Deerclops will generate beside the player for the first time, destroy buildings and leave, then every three respawn around player (if it has not been killed), with the same health statistics as last time she leave.

This mechanic are express a fact that the same Deerclops attacks the player's building every 3 days and this Deerclops takes 16 winter days to regenerate after being killed. It has a complete behavioral loop, depicting a giant beast that active in the winter, rather than a Prefab that provides resources to the player every year.

So why am I saying this? Once you discover this fact,then you'll realize the way Hostile Flares work is in complete conflict with the logic of Deerclops. Hostile Flares is supposed to attract threats, just as it does on MacTusk. It should have the same effect on the Deerclops, summoning the existing Deerclops, which is the Deerclops stored in the Deerclops spawner. Instead of spawning a whole new Deerclops indefinitely. Making Hostile Flares attract only existing walruses while spawn a new Deerclops is absolutely ridiculous. It's not about the resources, it's about the way they interact against themselves.

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1 hour ago, Cassielu said:

Well. If you don't know attack mechanism of deerclops, or you are a ruthless deerclops butcher, let me introduce for you quickly: within 30 days, Deerclops will generate beside the player for the first time, destroy buildings and leave, then every three respawn around player (if it has not been killed), with the same health statistics as last time she leave.

This mechanic are express a fact that the same Deerclops attacks the player's building every 3 days and this Deerclops takes 16 winter days to regenerate after being killed. It has a complete behavioral loop, depicting a giant beast that active in the winter, rather than a Prefab that provides resources to the player every year.

So why am I saying this? Once you discover this fact,then you'll realize the way Hostile Flares work is in complete conflict with the logic of Deerclops. Hostile Flares is supposed to attract threats, just as it does on MacTusk. It should have the same effect on the Deerclops, summoning the existing Deerclops, which is the Deerclops stored in the Deerclops spawner. Instead of spawning a whole new Deerclops indefinitely. Making Hostile Flares attract only existing walruses while spawn a new Deerclops is absolutely ridiculous. It's not about the resources, it's about the way they interact against themselves.

Immersion is a mostly dead concept in dst sadly this pretty much sums up how I feel about the rain book be available before completing the first in game year. 

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25 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Immersion is a mostly dead concept in dst sadly this pretty much sums up how I feel about the rain book be available before completing the first in game year. 

imo this is more immersive than having just 1 deerclops. You are attracting them and, as an animal, there are more than 1

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10 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

If they're all close enough to see it then why don't more than 1 naturally spawn each year?

It's 1 naturally spawning an overly meta view point?

Yes creatures are literally spawned from houses, but aren't we supposed to imagine something more natural is happening

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2 hours ago, Cassielu said:

Making Hostile Flares attract only existing walruses while spawn a new Deerclops is absolutely ridiculous.

I assume this is because walruses are optional, but Deerclops is a scripted event, and using the existing Deerclops might mess up with its schedule.

I agree that logically it should use the existing Deerclops, so it comes with as much HP as it had when it despawned in the previous year, but keep the schedule intact so that a new one appears when it was scripted to.

 

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2 hours ago, GenomeSquirrel said:

It's 1 naturally spawning an overly meta view point?

Yes creatures are literally spawned from houses, but aren't we supposed to imagine something more natural is happening

I more so see it as immersion breaking than meta the meta point of view would be how it currently works efficiency over style. 

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1 hour ago, Mysterious box said:

I more so see it as immersion breaking than meta the meta point of view would be how it currently works efficiency over style. 

by meta i mean metagaming, the information is not information your character should know, and you're breaking your own immersion by looking behind the curtain. There's no reason exactly 1 deerclops will exist in the world regardless if you ignored them for in game years. Seems more immersion breaking to go with deerclops spawn every X days from thin air and houses generate living creatures, that assuming mystery happens offscreen and we can't fully grasp what's going on because we rarely see a life cycle like with beefalo.

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There are multiple Deerclops in the constant- refered to as both MALE & FEMALE Species (yeah sorry JoeW I had to go there & bring up those locked “What gender is Deerclops” conversations again..)

My point is that there isn’t just one Deerclops, they’re an entire species, & if I can blow into a dead Beefalo’s horn to “mate call” it’s heard to me- it does not seem too far fetched that I can create something to attract Deerclops’s with.

Interestingly enough it uses Glommers Goop in the flare craft recipe- Glommer only spawns on a Full Moon which should be a pretty heavy hint to the players that Glommer = Evil & is most certainly not “cute or fluffy” I would like to bring heavy awareness to this fact because-

Klei states that everything they do in this years Roadmap is to “Set the Stage” for the next big story arch later.. What does that have to do with a hostile flare that uses the poop of a creature heavily linked to the moon? Well uhh I can take a few guesses-

027F7BE7-0829-4337-9C04-C4461547B1E4.thumb.jpeg.87a2acfd2598ca2629e5257e2ad47d4d.jpeg

This was official Klei dev art (minus the troll face) 

So if you want my opinion: Hostile Flare should require everything it has In its crafting cost now + a few Moon Glass shards (just make it look like someone jammed shards of broken moon glass into the Glommers goop)

Also- if 6 different players each go to different parts of the world and Fire a hostile flare at the same time will Multiple Deerclops spawn on each player? And if not- can we get an update that does that??

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1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

Klei states that everything they do in this years Roadmap is to “Set the Stage” for the next big story arch later.. What does that have to do with a hostile flare that uses the poop of a creature heavily linked to the moon? Well uhh I can take a few guesses-

Although I really love the mutated mob theme I think Klei just added the hostile flair as a way to spawn pirate raids after player feedback and chose a drop that makes them less mass producible (glommer goop)... 

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17 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

I'm still trying to figure out how something optional is ruining everyones experience.

"If I don't use it, no one should either"

Is all I keep hearing.

One person's decisions impact others.

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1 hour ago, HowlVoid said:

I'm still trying to figure out how something optional is ruining everyones experience.

"If I don't use it, no one should either"

Is all I keep hearing.

As said many times the problem with that argument is almost everything is optional therefore no one should have a problem with anything. 

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1 hour ago, HowlVoid said:

I'm still trying to figure out how something optional is ruining everyones experience.

"If I don't use it, no one should either"

Is all I keep hearing.

Well you see here’s the thing: if “I” am the “Host” of a world I can toggle various settings that forces anyone who joins my game session to play by my rules.

If I want to for example: Disable all Weather Seasons except Autumn, remove Insanity creatures, toggle off hound waves- I can do all that. But at the same time if I want to toggle permanent 24/7 summer, disable ice so players can’t create iceflingo machines and force everyone to endure literal hell I can do that too..

But what I CAN NOT Do (& I hope Klei someday gives me more control over without needing to buy a Pc and use mods) is the ability to toggle what can/can not be crafted in game.

for relevance of this thread obviously I’m thinking of the Hostile Flare, but it extends deeper then that.

Instead of just hosting lights out worlds and telling people they’re not allowed to use caves/lanterns.. why can’t I just disable them?

Its much easier to FORCE people to play by your rules then it is to ask them kindly to obey them.

So I can completely understand why some people want everyone to play by the same rules, and if you happen to dislike the settings I have toggled- maybe leave and find a host whose settings are more your style?

Theres TWO QoLs still planned in this Roadmap so everything I’m saying right now is relevant to the conversation.

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i play solo so this doesnt really matter for me but i imagine this change is so that people who play with friends can have access to multiple eyeballs for the coming spring.

In terms of rationality, i dont think players who are using the flare care about the deerclops mechanics considering they probably kill deerclops when it spawns anyway

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5 hours ago, GenomeSquirrel said:

by meta i mean metagaming, the information is not information your character should know, and you're breaking your own immersion by looking behind the curtain. There's no reason exactly 1 deerclops will exist in the world regardless if you ignored them for in game years. Seems more immersion breaking to go with deerclops spawn every X days from thin air and houses generate living creatures, that assuming mystery happens offscreen and we can't fully grasp what's going on because we rarely see a life cycle like with beefalo.

I'd say your wrong there we know that it's not only one deerclops that exists in the world however we do know it takes time for them to find us and that they're active in winter the average player isn't gonna know the exact day count for each spawn if these threads are any indication. I feel like your operating under the assumption that I feel only one deerclops can exist in winter as they are a one of a kind creature which I'm not it would make the option to make more spawn through the settings seem weird. What doesn't make sense is flashy flares being able to attract them but only 1 at a time it feels less like your calling them over and more like your summoning them with a magic circle.

Figured I'd bring this up but I actually didn't know the what the spawn timer was for deerclops before these conversations I figured it happened on a set timer but I didn't care to learn when I really only knew the first spawn time.

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33 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

As said many times the problem with that argument is almost everything is optional therefore no one should have a problem with anything. 

Optional means you don't have to interact with it.

This item is optional.

Rain isn't optional.

If you don't believe me, you can look up the definition of the word optional.

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1 minute ago, HowlVoid said:

Optional means you don't have to interact with it.

This item is optional.

Rain isn't optional.

If you don't believe me, you can look up the definition of the word optional.

I'm not saying rain is optional though what you use to combat rain is.

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26 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

I'm not saying rain is optional though what you use to combat rain is.

Then you agree there are things in the game that are not optional.

Combat is almost not optional, weather is not optional, characters are not optional (you must choose one), etc there are many things in the game that are not optional.

That proves your statement is false.

How you decide to approaches the game is entirely in your control, not based on the consensus on what may be deemed optimal or not.

Given that's the case, no one is forcing you to spawn a deerclops. If everyone on the server wants to have the choice in their hands and not have it decided by a /roll, you are entirely entitled to your eyebrella-less pity party corner of self-loathing. Because it seems to me that you'd even think it an undeserving reward to give yourself this items, given how you're approaching the topic.

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