Bookcase requiring 4 living logs makes all related books more expensive to unlock. Previous book recipe nerfs are ridiculous now.

[Ohan]

Before treeguards become a dime in a dozen this nerf has made unlocking the bookcase crafts a huge pain in the *** especially on pubs where the entire world is picked clean of totally normal trees on day 1 for shadow manipulator and dark swords. 

4 living logs is more than 1 TNT.. And is as much as u need to craft every ancient tab living log recipe. This is absurd. 

Add the nerfs to book recipes on top and unlocking certain ones is made even more disproportionately costly.

If the bookcase recipe was gonna be nerfed this hard theres no need to also still keep the book recipe nerfs or vice versa. Nerfing both sides is ridiculous. 

[Koomin]

Klei should make future betas initially intentionally underpowered in the future and release buffs throughout so that people feel like their voice is "being heard" instead of losing their mind after any downwards adjustment and claiming that it must be due to "people that just hate and don't play the character".

[dzzydzzy]

I don't consider it a nerf at all actually, just a different route you have to take as Wicker- Prioritizing an early tree guard spawn/kill with a team of pigs makes creating this and applied silviculture easily accessible. It also gives more use to Living Logs which adds synergy with Wormwood.

As for the "book recipe nerfs" I'm not sure which ones you're referring to? Rain rituals or lunar grimoire? I don't see how the change in this recipe affects either of those. What did you mean by that?

[NekoSoulx]

50 minutes ago, Koomin said:

Klei should make future betas initially intentionally underpowered in the future and release buffs throughout so that people feel like their voice is "being heard" instead of losing their mind after any downwards adjustment and claiming that it must be due to "people that just hate and don't play the character".

Yeah i agree, cause you look like a person that actually played the beta and know a lot about how the game and wicker works. "downwards adjustment", sure its not like wicker is only getting nerf after nerf without any buff cause some suggestions in the forum, its just that she was too powerful guys and needed the nerfs...

1 hour ago, Ohan said:

Before treeguards become a dime in a dozen this nerf has made unlocking the bookcase crafts a huge pain in the *** especially on pubs where the entire world is picked clean of totally normal trees on day 1 for shadow manipulator and dark swords. 

4 living logs is more than 1 TNT.. And is as much as u need to craft every ancient tab living log recipe. This is absurd. 

Add the nerfs to book recipes on top and unlocking certain ones is made even more disproportionately costly.

If the bookcase recipe was gonna be nerfed this hard theres no need to also still keep the book recipe nerfs or vice versa. Nerfing both sides is ridiculous. 

Just give up man i dont think klei is buffing anything at all after this, but dont worry if their data shows that after the update almost nobody played wicker, her skins didnt buy well and the nerfed books are never used then i think they are going to change/buff the recipes again during wilson or maxwell rework idk. This beta branch was lot of fun to me and at least they didnt touch the apicultural notes again in this last patch. gg

27 minutes ago, dzzydzzy said:

I don't consider it a nerf at all actually, just a different route you have to take as Wicker- Prioritizing an early tree guard spawn/kill with a team of pigs makes creating this and applied silviculture easily accessible. It also gives more use to Living Logs which adds synergy with Wormwood.

As for the "book recipe nerfs" I'm not sure which ones you're referring to? Rain rituals or lunar grimoire? I don't see how the change in this recipe affects either of those. What did you mean by that?

Sure, the route of luck hahahaha. Tree guards are not easy peasy to spawn early game my friend.

So you are not sure wich books were nerfed? you sure played the beta a lot didnt ya xD. They are plain nerfs to the recipe my friend, it doesnt matter if they deserved the nerf or not, a nerf is a nerf, its not hard to understand xddd.

[ADM]

Yup I don’t get this change too much but to give it a bit of magical aspect behind the repairing thing ?

If it stays that way however. I want the structure to have the Shadow Manipulator's magic tech level on top of Alchemy Engine one.

[Gashzer]

Living logs are easy to farm in the lunar grotto (easy to find, safe enough biome), the bookcase makes books renewable so it more than deserves its new cost.

[HeatAndRun]

Now Wickerbottom rushing the archive became essential cause she need to hunt mushgnomes for bookcases also :O

[hhh2]

The solution? Do not play on pubs

[HowlVoid]

I'd make more sense to me drop the required amount of living logs to 3 or even 2.

[Sapientis]

Repairing Books with Bookcase made out of Living Logs is much more logical than just a regular wooden Bookcase, so I actually like this change. Perhaps 3 Living Logs (so just 1 full Totally Normal Tree) would be enough though? Or as @ADM suggested it could work as a Magic Tab station as well (though that's what the Everything Encyclopedia is for I guess).

And regarding Book nerfs:

• Tempering Temperatures has been buffed (to 5 uses, that's basically 100% better from 2 to 4 uses if you want to preserve the Book for later), but could still provide a little more, as in "Keep your personal climate under control" which is this Book's description. Maybe introduce a second Book using this one which would keep one's temperature at those 35° for 4-8 minutes (this would make it great for fighting Klaus for example).
• Overcoming Arachnophobia higher cost is logical, but that's a lot of Silk, this book is still so niche that this nerf won't affect a lot of players, even those who will actually craft this book to complete the collection later in game, by which time Silk is in abundance anyway.
• Practical Rain Rituals "nerf" makes it somewhat cheaper to make (you can just chase a Mosling to a corner and butcher it with no risk) and this Book is still incredibly powerful. Yes, you won't be able to craft it before Spring (or Klaus' silly drop with Construction Amulet), but it's a good balance for literally controlling rain in the whole world and underground. To be honest I had a hard time crafting this book with a fresh Umbrella and a Watering Can...

I am quite surprised those books were revisited (as they were good enough as they were) and there was nothing done with The End is Nigh! which has no real good use, Pyrokinetics Explained, which is fun, but just a little too weak, Lux Aetherna and Lux Aetherna Redux, which are a little underwhelming in most scenarios and most notably Lunar Grimoire (I said I'm at peace with its current recipe, but having other books changed this Book begs the question: "Will it remain as it is when so many people argue its recipe is unhealthy for the game?").

[Gashzer]

11 minutes ago, Sapientis said:

@ADM 

I am quite surprised those books were revisited (as they were good enough as they were) and there was nothing done with The End is Nigh! which has no real good use, Pyrokinetics Explained, which is fun, but just a little too weak, Lux Aetherna and Lux Aetherna Redux, which are a little underwhelming in most scenarios and most notably Lunar Grimoire (I said I'm at peace with its current recipe, but having other books changed this Book begs the question: "Will it remain as it is when so many people argue its recipe is unhealthy for the game?").

I actually really like the Lux Aetherna Redux, its cheap and lasts a good length of time, helps grow crops, perfect for a sneaky cave base on a public server if you want to avoid griefers.

Lunar grimoire recipe with the iridescent gem fits so well with the lore and function of the book regardless of how powerful the book is, which ofc it is! So im one of the happy few who think the book is fine.

The end of nigh is useless tho, they need to buff the damage of lightning strikes or rework fire damage to not ash all loot dropped from ablaze mobs or something. Then maybe it could be used somewhat as a crowd control weapon book.

[oregu]

In solo situations.. either pray the gen gives you enough living trees or kill some mushgnomes on your way to the grotto if you're looking to rush the library? I didn't really see issue with the recipe before but now living logs is required for so many good items already, seemed a bit unnecessary, but maybe it means alchemy isn't useless for groups w/wicker who want to take things slower.

[Capybara007]

6 hours ago, Koomin said:

Klei should make future betas initially intentionally underpowered in the future and release buffs throughout so that people feel like their voice is "being heard" instead of losing their mind after any downwards adjustment and claiming that it must be due to "people that just hate and don't play the character".

that is what happened in updates like waterlogged where people said "please buff the dishes with figs they all suck" but nothing happened

[ArubaroBeefalo]

i like it needing living logs because the effect is kinda magical but 4 sounds a little too much. Maybe 2 or 1 would be better

[ShadowDuelist]

The new cabinet cost basically just reinforces the idea that Wickers need to rush the grotto for the living logs and then the archives for the opal gem soft griefing. People, the moon book IS NOT THAT GREAT, specially to be that costly, just play a couple of in game years as Wickerbottom to start figuring things. I'm already abandoning hope for the moon book cost to be whatever except an opal gem...

The Arachnophobia book is also an okay-ish book, but not really worth to be super expensive, 4 silk is probably enough, TBH. And I really hope the end is Nigh gets reviewed before release, honestly I think all wicker mains agree that besides charging volt goats (which is a niche use already) there is nothing to do with it, and for what it does, it's pretty expensive to craft.

I don't mind the new recipe for the rain book, it was going to be a big problem in the early game with the trolls anyway. I'm fine with that change and I understand why it was made.

I don't want to sound rude, but there is no other way to say this, I agree entirely with what @Ohansaid in another post, the rebalance of this rework is getting too much attention to the suggestions of uninformed players who don't understand the dynamics of the game, or Wickerbottom altogether. I'd pay a little more attention to the Wicker/Maxwell mains for the fine tuning.

[Catteflyterpill]

44 minutes ago, ShadowDuelist said:

I don't want to sound rude, but there is no other way to say this, I agree entirely with what @Ohansaid in another post, the rebalance of this rework is getting too much attention to the suggestions of uninformed players who don't understand the dynamics of the game, or Wickerbottom altogether. I'd pay a little more attention to the Wicker/Maxwell mains for the fine tuning.

I definitely agree that Wicker mains should be the focus for a Wicker rework. Personally I haven't mained Wicker for a bit now, but just seems logical. However, I feel like a lot of the suggestions so far have been focused on balancing for pubs. I mean I definitely get it, but I feel like there's a discrepancy in balancing when something is based on pubs or a more private game. 

I prefer the focus on coopertative, communicative gameplay rather than taming the nightmare that is public servers. But like I said I don't play much pubs, maybe it's a lot more popular than I take it for. 

[Joroc]

5 hours ago, hhh2 said:

The solution? Do not play on pubs

Solution? Do not play. Period.

[Mysterious box]

1 hour ago, ShadowDuelist said:

I don't want to sound rude, but there is no other way to say this, I agree entirely with what @Ohansaid in another post, the rebalance of this rework is getting too much attention to the suggestions of uninformed players who don't understand the dynamics of the game, or Wickerbottom altogether. I'd pay a little more attention to the Wicker/Maxwell mains for the fine tuning.

While I do agree the bookcase case cost is currently too high and I'm iffy on the rain book's new cost I don't think it's fair that people keep assuming everyone who disliked the previous state of Wickerbottom is either uninformed on how to play the game, hates Wickerbottom, or has never played Wickerbottom it's one of the main points people keep leaning on and it's a assumption and not a good argument it only exists to take a jab at people who didn't like a aspect of things and try to invalidate their opinions.

[ShadowDuelist]

38 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

While I do agree the bookcase case cost is currently too high and I'm iffy on the rain book's new cost I don't think it's fair that people keep assuming everyone who disliked the previous state of Wickerbottom is either uninformed on how to play the game, hates Wickerbottom, or has never played Wickerbottom it's one of the main points people keep leaning on and it's a assumption and not a good argument it only exists to take a jab at people who didn't like a aspect of things and try to invalidate their opinions.

I say this mostly because of the overhype about the moon book, and the result we got.

I don't mean to say that all opinions are wrong, we all say what we thing is the best from our perspective, and you can agree or disagree with some opinions, that's what we are here for. Sometimes some suggestions really come from lack of understanding of core mechanics of the game, and even though that is not wrong because it is not ill intended, what was wrong is to take it into account for the game when many of us were warning against it.

Despite the original cost was way too low, I think the suggestions of using an opal gem didn't consider the game as a whole. TBH I don't mind if the cost becomes a moon moth, or the celestial crown, the main problem I see is that the opal gems are free to take and can annoy the world much more than getting a few weird full moons.

[Wonz]

9 hours ago, Ohan said:

Before treeguards become a dime in a dozen this nerf has made unlocking the bookcase crafts a huge pain in the *** especially on pubs where the entire world is picked clean of totally normal trees on day 1 for shadow manipulator and dark swords. 

You'd have it in pubs without much pain if my suggestion for compass became real. At least it wouldn't be so luck based.

[Milordo]

6 hours ago, hhh2 said:

The solution? Do not play on pubs

As always it should have been. 

1 hour ago, Catteflyterpill said:

I definitely agree that Wicker mains should be the focus for a Wicker rework. Personally I haven't mained Wicker for a bit now, but just seems logical. However, I feel like a lot of the suggestions so far have been focused on balancing for pubs. I mean I definitely get it, but I feel like there's a discrepancy in balancing when something is based on pubs or a more private game. 

I prefer the focus on coopertative, communicative gameplay rather than taming the nightmare that is public servers. But like I said I don't play much pubs, maybe it's a lot more popular than I take it for. 

Exactly. Pubs should never be take in consideration, when talking about balancing, design,..... anything, if not for maximum griefing potential.

[Mysterious box]

2 hours ago, ShadowDuelist said:

Despite the original cost was way too low, I think the suggestions of using an opal gem didn't consider the game as a whole. TBH I don't mind if the cost becomes a moon moth, or the celestial crown, the main problem I see is that the opal gems are free to take and can annoy the world much more than getting a few weird full moons.

While my stance is it being distilled knowledge(which is starting to feel like political statement.) The issues I have with the robbing the archives argument is people were always able to take them, many people for one reason or another are against them being made unremovable, and regardless of what changes are made to the book going forward the spotlight of opal being a good target for griefers is still out there now.

[Capybara007]

31 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

The issues I have with the robbing the archives argument is people were always able to take them

But absolutely no one took the gems, for some reason people act like its a big deal

if the cost stays as it is wickerbottoms will steal the gems because they get rewarded by it, a random griefer will not steal the gems because they do not get rewarded

and you will say "well that is what griefers do they get rewarded by making others unhappy" but if they want to make others mad griefers will eat the food, kill your domesticated beefalo, destroy structures, burn down the base, take an important item and disconect with it, do you think they care about some rando that wanted to do the archives? in a pub, where they get reset on every update, no one will care about the archives at all

a griefer that steals the opals is like a kid that calls himself a criminal for not washing his hands

[Mysterious box]

5 minutes ago, Capybara007 said:

But absolutely no one took the gems, for some reason people act like its a big deal

if the cost stays as it is wickerbottoms will steal the gems because they get rewarded by it, a random griefer will not steal the gems because they do not get rewarded

and you will say "well that is what griefers do they get rewarded by making others unhappy" but if they want to make others mad griefers will eat the food, kill your domesticated beefalo, destroy structures, burn down the base, take an important item and disconect with it, do you think they care about some rando that wanted to do the archives? in a pub, where they get reset on every update, no one will care about the archives at all

a griefer that steals the opals is like a kid that calls himself a criminal for not washing his hands

But my question is that then is why don't we just make them not removable I don't see why they are?

[Capybara007]

1 minute ago, Mysterious box said:

But my question then is that then is why don't we just make them not removable I don't see why they are?

because people also want to deactivate the archives