why is wickerbottom getting a rework/refresh

[Cloakingsumo198]

1 hour ago, GuyNamedChris said:

Unique idle animations basically means they are not planned to get any more refreshes.

Is this stated anywhere or just the observed pattern?

Spoiler

Willow and Winona definitely need a re-rework.

Warly could use touching up like wurt.

 

[Falkenpelz]

10 hours ago, xhyom said:

I would literally set Klei headquarters on fire if they tried to ignore Wickerbottom.

Spotted a Willow main in the wild.

[Soumyadip543]

10 hours ago, xhyom said:

I would literally set Klei headquarters on fire if they tried to ignore Wickerbottom.

Most sane Willow player.

[finn from human]

12 hours ago, shadowtiger123 said:

tentacle books for boss cheese

I don't have a ton to say on this topic, but as someone who used bee queen tentacle traps on and off for a good few years... Yeah, no, they feel super super bad. Tentacle traps are 10x clunkier than using Winona's catapults and will end up killing YOU more often than the bosses unless you're willing to use a lazy forager every time you pick up the loot.

[SuperDonuts]

I started Wickerbottom lately and I like her play style. So I am not sure she deserves more change than other characters like Winona or Willow.

But I play DST solo and I like how quickly you can setup base and how she can interact with Wurt, Warly, Wormwood.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

4 hours ago, shadowtiger123 said:

wicker bottom have panflute , lighning , instant food/ resources regrowth , tentacle for boss killing and u think she is mundane?

sleeping book is only useful for people who dont do ruins cleaning or when you want to spam sleep to get krampus sack = very niche

instant food is useful when you start farming or when you play in a crowded server. maybe you can use the book after planting some tomatoes seeds to get quick healing for an unprepared boss fight = kinda niche

growing resources is her best and most useful book but nothing super needed because world regrowth and only useful if you plan to make an insane mega base

tentacles books is unique and i love the Lovecraft reference but i don't enjoy killing bosses in that passive way so for me is like having one less book. Maybe i would use it for some kind of meat farm...

you forgot about being the only character that can make darts kinda worth for experience 

the rest of the time you are literally wilson with extra sanity

she has potential for being much more, literally they can do whatever with her books. The limit are the resources klei would want to invest on her

[Mike23Ua]

32 minutes ago, SuperDonuts said:

I started Wickerbottom lately and I like her play style. So I am not sure she deserves more change than other characters like Winona or Willow.

But I play DST solo and I like how quickly you can setup base and how she can interact with Wurt, Warly, Wormwood.

Well one thing that could probably be changed is make her spells have a casting circle in order to use them so you can aim and use the spell in the area you want to use it in (if any of you have ever played SMITE pretty much trying to catch an enemy or team mate in Izanamis Ultimate or any character similar to her with a “casting circle”)

This would make @ArubaroBeefalo actually care to use the Tentacle book because at least they would need some degree of skill Aiming at the enemy.

I would also like to be able to focus on WHAT I want to grow rather then it just picking a few things randomly on my screen when it comes to farms or resources.

New Powers Wickerbottom could get is the ability to cast a book spell in a casting circle in a specific area/on a specific resource to temporarily change the SEASON it’s growing in- so like for example: if the Season is currently Winter and ponds are frozen over, Wicker can cast it to Summer to fish from them or vice versa or cast in a Walrus Camp outside of Winter to change it to Winter & have him spawn for a few moments.. etc-

Just because the character is already “good” sure as heck does not mean they aren’t deserving of a rework.

[Cheggf]

You listed 3 characters which already got reworked and 1 who needs a rework just as much as Wickerbottom does. 

13 hours ago, Guihhza said:

Winona is a newly introduced character, she will hopefully be worked on after the others

She already got 2 or 3 reworks and I think Klei said they have no plans to rererework her. 

[ArubaroBeefalo]

22 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Well one thing that could probably be changed is make her spells have a casting circle in order to use them so you can aim and use the spell in the area you want to use it in (if any of you have ever played SMITE pretty much trying to catch an enemy or team mate in Izanamis Ultimate or any character similar to her with a “casting circle”)

This would make @ArubaroBeefalo actually care to use the Tentacle book because at least they would need some degree of skill Aiming at the enemy.

I would also like to be able to focus on WHAT I want to grow rather then it just picking a few things randomly on my screen when it comes to farms or resources.

New Powers Wickerbottom could get is the ability to cast a book spell in a casting circle in a specific area/on a specific resource to temporarily change the SEASON it’s growing in- so like for example: if the Season is currently Winter and ponds are frozen over, Wicker can cast it to Summer to fish from them or vice versa or cast in a Walrus Camp outside of Winter to change it to Winter & have him spawn for a few moments.. etc-

Just because the character is already “good” sure as heck does not mean they aren’t deserving of a rework.

i wont mind a book that has an aoe effect like the forge ones that summon a bunch of shadow tentacles

but i think they shouldnt delete or change too much the tentacles one since some players like it and, even if i dont enjoy using it, is an unique mechanic (and the only way to make tentacles renewable)

[Well-met]

7 hours ago, yourAnty said:

mate thinks wilson is fine in a multiplayer co-op game

an experienced wilson player is a dozen times more helpful and credit to success than a average anyone else

[Dr. Safety]

13 hours ago, shadowtiger123 said:

-so klei pls give more attention to other characters.

They will get theirs/have gotten theirs already. Part of the reason I wanted them to focus more on character refreshes and less on seasonal events was because some of the old reworks haven't really aged well and still have their character in a poor spot (Winona and Willow mostly). It wouldn't make sense to give Winona two reworks before giving Maxwell or Wilson a rework at all, so naturally they need to finish reworking everyone and then go back and fix anyone that still is weak.

The important thing here is to be patient though. It's been a HUGE project for Klei to rework every member of the cast, with them on track to finish the last one around 4 years after the first rework. I am certain that the devs are aware of the state that the characters you mentioned are in, so we just gotta wait for the magic to happen. In the meantime, Wickerbottom, Maxwell, and Wilson mains can have their time in the spotlight.

[Canis]

15 hours ago, Guihhza said:

Winona is a newly introduced character

God, I hate the passage of time.

[Starlogy]

1 hour ago, Canis said:

God, I hate the passage of time.

Holy  it's almost been 5 years since she was added??!

I am getting old.

[Szczuku]

16 hours ago, Guihhza said:

Winona is a newly introduced character, she will hopefully be worked on after the others

My brother in Christ, we've had 6 new characters since Winona. 7 if you count Wonkey

[kirihime]

17 hours ago, shadowtiger123 said:

summary of rant:
other characters( winona , maxwell , willow , walter ) than wicker need more attention due to  mundane gameplay of other

willow is fine
walter is fine
max will get one
winona could probably use a few more things but she's by no means in a bad spot, solo players on solo worlds with the celestial portal is a small subset of how this game is played

every character is getting a refresh
Max is getting one but he'll be either the last or the second last, along with Wilson

[maxwell_winters]

Wickerbottom should have been one of the first reworks. She's still a heavily single-player character that doesn't work in multiplayer.

1. On Tentacles is a huge safety hazards for other players. It wasn't an issue in the single-player because it was fully your fault if you die to tentacles. In DST, other players might walk in the trap. Besides, there is a much safer and accessible alternatives in Winona's catapults.

2. The End is Nigh is also a safety hazard and a great tool for griefers.

3. Sleepytime stories aren't as useful. In the single player, mandrakes weren't guaranteed to spawn and green gems were renewable only through tumbleweeds. In DST, it's much easier to craft a panflute and deconstruct it from time to time.

4, Horticulture, Abridged is really weak. It might be useful in the early game but after the first year it would be more useful to use 5 manure for fertilizing.

5. Sleeping isn't as good in DST, so insomnia doesn't feel like a significant disadvantage. 

[Cheggf]

35 minutes ago, maxwell_winters said:

On Tentacles is a huge safety hazards for other players. It wasn't an issue in the single-player because it was fully your fault if you die to tentacles. In DST, other players might walk in the trap. Besides, there is a much safer and accessible alternatives in Winona's catapults.

Winona's catapults act entirely differently and are used for completely different things. I have seen people grief using on tentacles a grand total of 1 time, and that was before the spawn protection thing that stops you from doing that any more.

35 minutes ago, maxwell_winters said:

The End is Nigh is also a safety hazard and a great tool for griefers.

I have never seen anyone grief with tein. Why would you? It's so ineffective. 

35 minutes ago, maxwell_winters said:

Sleepytime stories aren't as useful. In the single player, mandrakes weren't guaranteed to spawn and green gems were renewable only through tumbleweeds. In DST, it's much easier to craft a panflute and deconstruct it from time to time.

You know green gems can make thulecite right?

35 minutes ago, maxwell_winters said:

Horticulture, Abridged is really weak. It might be useful in the early game but after the first year it would be more useful to use 5 manure for fertilizing.

Why is instantly making a bunch of powerful crops on demand and kick-starting farms bad but wasting fertilizer because you don't understand how farms work good? 

35 minutes ago, maxwell_winters said:

Sleeping isn't as good in DST, so insomnia doesn't feel like a significant disadvantage. 

Sleeping is a lot better in DST than it was in DSA.

Despite not being reworked Wickerbottom is still one of the best characters in the game. She isn't a character that explicitly shouts what they do at you so you actually need to think a bit to utilize her powers properly but all she needs is a few more books to make her more fun and it'd be a good rework. Your post seems like you trying really hard to come up with a reason everything she does sucks. 

[sudoku]

Wickerbottom definitley needs a look at. She doesnt need any drastic changes but a lot of new mechanics have been added since her singleplayer books have debuted so id like to see her get some new books to mess around with.

Thematically, id also love it if they found a way for her to write her own books, maybe in the form of blueprints she could give to others, but just having new books would be good enough.

[Castaccio]

I agree that Wickerbottom should get her rework next. She seems to be in need of a return to the status quo, and deserves perks and downsides that more accurately reflect her character.

I personally think that the ability to support players in combat may be an interesting addition, as she's depicted as the "mom" of the group. In fact, her quotes (and others' too) show this to be a large part of her character, and I would love to see this represented practically. 

 

I'm also curious about Wickerbottom lore-wise and am very excited for her short. I still think about the "New York Library Fire!" newspaper clipping in Winona's, and can't wait to see it pay off. Is it a reference to the real NY fire from 1911? Does it mean that she had "The End is Nigh" in the real world?

This first set of refreshes for the cast gave us story crumbs as well, which give each character a moment in the spotlight. Once everybody's done with their mandatory updates and had their designated moment, Klei can go back and fix any glaring issues without the pressure of covering the entire roster.

 

Also, on the topic of characters who need refreshes, would it be a good idea to add Woodie to the list? I remember a lot of people being very unhappy with some of his changes (and also his short). Is this still the case?

[maxwell_winters]

3 hours ago, Cheggf said:

Winona's catapults act entirely differently and are used for completely different things. I have seen people grief using on tentacles a grand total of 1 time, and that was before the spawn protection thing that stops you from doing that anymore.

They still have similar purpose. The difference is that one doesn't kill players if they accidentally stumble into it and the other does. 

3 hours ago, Cheggf said:

I have never seen anyone grief with tein. Why would you? It's so ineffective. 

Ok, I agree with but it still doesn't change the fact that it doesn't have many uses. 

3 hours ago, Cheggf said:

You know green gems can make thulecite right? Why is instantly making a bunch of powerful crops on demand and kick-starting farms bad but wasting fertilizer because you don't understand how farms work good? 

Assuming that I don't know how the game works, only because I didn't explain everything in great detail. Very nice. Anyway, deconstruction staves are still used to make pan flutes renewable. And as I said, the book is good in the early but it's not worth bothering with it after the first year because farm plots yield good produce without even tending to them. 

4 hours ago, Cheggf said:

Sleeping is a lot better in DST than it was in DSA.

Subjective 

[LitulLola]

Because it's her turn to get reworked, there is an order to these things. Wicker and Maxwell (Wilson to smaller extent) are the last of the OG characters to get reworked. She used to be part of the big three and was a really good character but characters have evolved over the years and she's just not that useful anymore. I hope the other characters get some tweaks and I don't see why they wouldn't. But the older characters need to be reworked first before they start tweaking newer characters or characters that have already had there reworks. I'm super excited about Wickers rework, I used to main her back in the day and see huge potential. I'm hoping for totally new mechanics to how we play her but keeping the essence of who she is. Kinda like the WX rework, completely new mechanics but still very much WX. 

She needs a bookcase!

[hhh2]

22 hours ago, Well-met said:

i hope you literally get arrested

oh man I lol'd.

[Cheggf]

1 hour ago, maxwell_winters said:

They still have similar purpose. The difference is that one doesn't kill players if they accidentally stumble into it and the other does. 

The difference is that one helps you kill bosses and the other kills bosses. 

1 hour ago, maxwell_winters said:

Ok, I agree with but it still doesn't change the fact that it doesn't have many uses. 

Several books with many uses and a single book that has little use. 

1 hour ago, maxwell_winters said:

Assuming that I don't know how the game works, only because I didn't explain everything in great detail

You literally said that it is more difficult to get reeds & nmf than it is to get reeds, nmf, thulecite, living logs, green gems, and mandrakes.

[Mysterious box]

On 7/2/2022 at 11:34 PM, shadowtiger123 said:

- willow can only hyper farm nightmare creatures (bear) and more resistant to summer 

Immunity to fire damage comes in handy in a lazier player's dragonfly solo also Bernie! being a follower who can take a beating better than most and being immune to crowd control effects and also taking the pressure off sanity management during boss fights goes further than you'd think. Add to the fact he can be instantly healed via kits and I'd say she's in a pretty good spot power wise just needs some qol tweaks really tho she's mostly overshadowed by how unbalanced Wendy is from a design perspective.

 

On 7/2/2022 at 11:34 PM, shadowtiger123 said:

maxwell wood gathering can be outdone by beager or deerclops and frankly he is only use for mining rock fruits and infinite durability shovel, his duelist is only use to be perma insane and nothing else.

Considering from what I understand as a mass majority of players never even make it to the second year I don't see his resource gathering as bad. And I've seen some strats from more experienced players actually successfully make use of the duelists I haven't really given him a fair shot though so I don't know if the player was really good or his duelist are just underestimated. I won't deny he could use a new concept even more so since he's got other resource collectors to compete with who fill more than one role.

 

On 7/2/2022 at 11:34 PM, shadowtiger123 said:

wicker bottom may not have the power to feed the entire server in one go but still have multiple uses that impact gameplay

She has uses sure but if I'm being honest she's probably the character I see the least on servers even Wes and Maxwell himself have a higher play rate on servers at least from my experiences which is sad because I like her stor-book's benefits.  

14 hours ago, Eughstein said:

Most new players don't play Wilson and go Webber or Wendy

This isn't really true most new players tend to go Wilson then go Webber/Wendy when they know a bit better.

 

14 hours ago, ShadowDuelist said:

I think most people either don’t know or have forgotten the things that can be done with Wickerbottom. She is in no way dull, boring and useless. I hope they add new books and stuff to her and change end is nigh which is the only almost useless book, but most definitely I hope NOT for a total rework. 

All books have a lot of possible uses in different situations and ways to make them very efficient , I guess no streamer or YouTuber has been focusing on her lately and that’s why most of her uses have been forgotten.

She is possibly the last character remaining without perks that are explained how to use by holding hands, her perks are SUPER sandbox-y and allow many cool contraptions.

Agreed sleepy time stories alone is a very powerful book in it's own right.

 

15 hours ago, shadowtiger123 said:

walter is budget beefalo+ chester with a useless slingshot . pass day 10 walter become wilson with campfire song and feather collector

I mean when you compare him to other characters he has a fair bit more going for him than most despite his downsides even if his stuff is technically replaceable people have to commit to those things whiile Walter doesn't meaning he can have this and that rather than this or that if anything the only thing Walter needs is another look at his slingshot and maybe another look at his sanity on hit scaling.

[maxwell_winters]

8 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

The difference is that one helps you kill bosses and the other kills bosses. 

It still doesn't change the fact that tentacles are a hazard to other player. Especially the newer ones who play Wendy and Wigfrid, for example and aren't aware of Wickerbóttom's mechanics. Even more experienced players might get distracted and walk into the tentacles. If nothing is changed about this book, this might become an issue on public servers when everyone would be testing how new Wicker works. 

13 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

. You literally said that it is more difficult to get reeds & nmf than it is to get reeds, nmf, thulecite, living logs, green gems, and mandrakes.

No, I said it's easier to make pan flutes renewable compared to DSA. Part of the appeal of this book in DSA was because mandrakes didn't always spawn and were harder to renew. Glommer also wasn't guaranteed to spawn. And it was nice to have a guaranteed sleep-inducing item. But DST has pan flutes as this guaranteed sleep-inducing item that other characters can make renewable without Wicker.