Soooo... What is the point of Webber if Wurt is so much superior?

[Pig Princess]

And here we go again: "Wigfrid vs Wolfgang" 2.0 and "Woodie and Wilba are the same but one of them is better" 2.0.

I played both Webber and Wurt and here are my thoughts about them (and why I prefer Webber):

1. Wurt gains power much slower than Webber, she requires much more setup. Both spiders and merms help to scale corresponding army (monster meat farm and wood farm respectively), but Wurt is just slower: realistically before farming wood Wurt needs to clear forests from spiders/pigs (which is a problem for small initial number of merms, for comparison Webber builds up his army while he is clearing evergreen forests), she needs to run through half of the map with her merms to chop said wood (and get more food for befriending them because of that, which is extra more time to spend), plus merm huts are more expensive than cost of befriending spider/switcherdoodles, and live freshwater fish doesn't even stack. Not to mention that spiders are everywhere - including caves - which means Webber can start minion accumulation process from almost any point of the map, whereas Wurt needs to find one specific place on 2 entire shards and do extra work on top of that.

Once minions are acquired, both can conveniently hire them and fire.

2. Upkeep costs of armies (past initial investment into spawner/switcherdoodle and it's recipe): short-lasting army with low hiring cost vs potentially eternal army with medium hiring cost. While merms can be hired with anything that is not meat, their loyal time is still based on hunger points of food, which makes merm army suitable for 1 time use during short period of time (boss fight), impractical for keeping for longer. Webber's army, on the other hand, it suitable for keeping around for long periods of time, and is not very practical for cases when player may want to often switch between having and not having army (in situations where spiders make more mess than help, i.e. Klaus, Fuelweaver fights, sailing near monkey island and building). Obviously one can find circumstances where both armies work to their fullest potential (and better than the other type), but that is the point: differences in hiring and upkeep cost lead to different behaviour of Wurt and Webber player.

3. Vesatility of minions in different areas. Merms are generalists, i.e. are both fighters and harvesters, but in the fight itself they are not very versatile and have little options. Spiders specialize on fighting, and even though they are not very versatile in general, they have much more options in the field they specialize at: webby whistle for control, healers, ranged attacks, leaping to enemy in addition to regular melee attack. Plus merm army typycally has less numbers but stronger individual fighters that are worth giving armor to, while spider army typically has more fighters with each individual being weaker; I wouldn't call spiders disposable (especially expensive spitters), but they are not worth giving an armor to (due to this and spider-specific options to staying alive: nurses, whistle). This results in different behaviour and tactic of Wurt and Webber players (in fights and harvesting).

I can see merm's harvesting abilities outweight lack of control and interesting options during the fights for people who like to build a lot and/or ones who just want fights to be done without further complications. I, however, don't mind waiting for Bearger for harvesting, or even don't build at all past necessities, and greatly appreciate advantage in control (I had fun figuring out how to kill Dragonfly without panflute and spider deaths, Bee Queen with minimal resources including consequtive fights (no cheese)), so obviously for me Webber's advantages outweight Wurt's ones.

4. Other advantages and disadvantages. They are completely different, I see no point in discussing them, but only mentioning: different diets, different stats, different weather managment, different priorities because of that, different things where player can get away with poor planning.

Personally, I prefer 175 hunger and meaty stews (rather than 200 with small snacks), to have use for all the meat I'm getting, don't mind worse weather managment in the lategame, prefer lower sanity for Fuelweaver fight. But I can see how others could prefer stone fruits or kelp (especially if one magabases and farms stone via stone fruit anyway, or prefers to clear ruins with celestial crown and dried kelp rather than being at low sanity), better weather managment and other things.

As for subjective things, I like idea and personality of Webber more (while tending to crops: "One day you're going to grow up big and strong... and then we'll eat you!" is probably my favourite, although "We summon you, warm ball of light", "It's saddle made of spider snacks", "En garde!", "Hopefully we are venomous!" I also like, as well as how Webber's voice sounds), although I admit that Wurt has super cute skins:

Spoiler

 

[Gashzer]

55 minutes ago, JJ0264 said:

really?...I thought Wortox or Walter is worst designed character

Walter gets a massive bad rep on the forums, his design is awesome, his equipment literally deals with his downside (pinecone hat + portable tent), losing sanity on hit is only noticable when fighting bosses otherwise his perks are awesome. Pay monster meat for 60% speed boost and more inventory slots, both are S tier perks (day 1 walking cane + krampus sack replacements). 

Slingshot, yes is the slowest common weapon for combat but since walter doesn't have any negative damage multiplier, he has more flexiblity in combat than regular non-combat characters as he can juggle melee with range.  eg melee-kite klaus until, the harder to kite "chomp" phase, then finish him safely with slingshot.

People need to actually give Walter a chance... I hated him when he first came out until i give him a proper playthrough like 2 months later now i'm the forums number 1 walter fanboy 

 

[Eughstein]

5 hours ago, Theukon-dos said:

Hmmm? Oh, I thought I had done so, but I guess not. Alright then, I'm more than happy to oblige.

 

Mainly, it comes down to the fact that Wurt's kit has no synergy within itself. For the most part, the devs just looked at her and went "What perks would a merm character have" without giving much consideration for how said perks would actually play together.

She's a minion character who can't befriend pigs, but can befried merms. Alright, not a bad start. Except for the fact that; unlike Webber; Merms are just pigs. Unlike Webber whose spiders have a unique dynamic (Incredibly weak, but cheap to set up and mass-recruit), the only real difference between Merms and Pigs is the fact that Merms can also mine rocks. 

In addition, she doesn't really have any need for minions in the first place. Her stats are average right out of the box and become super high when a King of the Merms is alive; only being beaten out by an upgraded WX. combine that with the fact that the mash biome is effectively one giant cobblestone road for her, and she's much better off for fighting than most other characters all on her own.

She's an herbivore. But unlike other characters who have dietary restrictions, Wurt doesn't have any special abilities that make it easier for her to get the foods she can eat.. Wigfrid is proficient in combat which makes her good at hunting meat, And Warly has his own crock pot with unique recipes. Meanwhile, Wurt has a flat stat boost from food so that she doesn't starve to death every winter. Not something interesting like "Merms can tend to crops and harvest them" or "Is good at scavenging for food and can find some during winter". Just, "Get more stats". Plain and boring as it is.

She doesn't loose sanity from wetness which is fine. It doesn't tie into any of her other kit, but she is a fish so whatever. HOWEVER, what I will point out is that; as of when that first comment was made; Wurt was still penalized for being wet despite the fact that she both wasn't penalized for falling off a boat, and had a strong grip that kept her from dropping wet items. So for a period of over 2 years, the fish who kept talking about liking the water... didn't like the water.

King of the Merms is fine, but atleast as of writing, keeping them fed was so comically annoying that basically your only option was to just let him starve and re-summon whenever you needed to fight something. It does seem like this has been fixed though, so I won't hold it against her.

 

Ultimately, I won't call Wurt a "Bad" character. She, no doubt, has her strengths. However, That strength basically just comes from a single perk (Merms), and the rest of her kit just doesn't play well together. Especially compared to other characters such as Warly, Wigfrid, or Wanda.

Let's talk about everything you said 

1.Merms have more speed, hp regen, immunity to scare effects

2."She doesn't have need for minions" oh and also you don't have need to kill bosses, you don't have need to don't play wes yk.

3.Merms literally can mine stone fruit

4.My brother in forum you literally called Wurt worst designed character.

[Theukon-dos]

7 hours ago, Eughstein said:

Let's talk about everything you said 

1.Merms have more speed, hp regen, immunity to scare effects

2."She doesn't have need for minions" oh and also you don't have need to kill bosses, you don't have need to don't play wes yk.

3.Merms literally can mine stone fruit

4.My brother in forum you literally called Wurt worst designed character.

1. But ultimately they're still just pigs. Same behaviour, same recruitment. A stronger pig is still just a pig.

2. That's fair, but it's still a bit weird for a minion character to be so strong in and of themselves. Wendy has below average damage in exchange for Abigail, and Webber; while having slightly above average HP and hunger; has pitiful sanity and is attacked by several more creatures than Wurt. Meanwhile, only pigs are hostile towards Wurt, and she's basically a living tank.

3. I don't count that. Wurt doesn't have any perks that let her collect Stonefruit bushes easier, 'nor can she make them grow faster. Mermions only help speed up the already-fast process of cracking stonefruit open. And you can do that even faster with Gunpowder or Slurtle Slime.

4. Bad Design =/= weak. A character with 600HP, a 10x damage modifier, and who can turn twigs into thulecite would probably be considered pretty darn powerful. But those would still all be really bad design choices.

[flamboyant wolf]

15 hours ago, Theukon-dos said:

Hmmm? Oh, I thought I had done so, but I guess not. Alright then, I'm more than happy to oblige.

 

Mainly, it comes down to the fact that Wurt's kit has no synergy within itself. For the most part, the devs just looked at her and went "What perks would a merm character have" without giving much consideration for how said perks would actually play together.

Ultimately, I won't call Wurt a "Bad" character. She, no doubt, has her strengths. However, That strength basically just comes from a single perk (Merms), and the rest of her kit just doesn't play well together. Especially compared to other characters such as Warly, Wigfrid, or Wanda.

(i apologize in advance, for a wall of text i'm about to send) 

I understand that Wurt has a lot of perks, not all of which are directly related to each other, but I just don't understand why it matters?

i, personaly, find these characters to be the most enjoyable in the game, and as i can assume, other people who main Wurt probably like to play as her as well. so, let's say such characters are just appealing to a certain group of people, as opposed to being popular with most people(which, i must say, is completely fine in a game with such amount of characters). the reason I personally find Wurt great is exactly because of her perks, all of which make my life just a bit easier. 

like, most of Wurt's perks either act as a handy QoL and make sense cause she's a merm(no wetness sanity loss and strong grip, frog neutrality, fish pet stuff) or make you want to go sailing to some extent(need for kelp to build king's tapestry, no penalties for abandoning ship or drowning, better trades for ocean fish and better use of sunfish/winter fish). 

as for Merms, yeah they're just better pigs. 

better in every way. 

Pigs are barely used for their minion functions, due to being available only during day(so you would need to have their houses near the trees) and being awful at fighting. 

Merms are:easy to mass produce, easy to quickly befriend in large amounts, due to being able to be tamed with veggies, including seeds and kelp, and being befriended in amounts of 3, can chop wood AND mine rocks (whole day cycle, mind you), have a way to quickly unbefriend all merms at once(kill a fish), and have more hp. 

Merms with king alive are also:even healthier, have 40 damage (instead of previous 30), neutral to all players (unlike those pigs, who atack Webber and Wortox players)

Loyal guards are: even more healthy than previous merms(660 hp), even stronger(50 damage), even better for fighting (boss scream immunity), faster(10% faster than regular merms iirc) and friendlier(6 merms per 1 food item, all merm guards also get 50% more loyalty from food). 

so in conclusion, does it even matter that they're somewhat similar to pigs, when pigs are barely comparable? 

and in conclusion to my rant: Wurt is fine, she's just probably not for you. 

(also i still don't understand the whole "perks don't relate to each other", so could you please explain it to me if you have time? i don't see how it's diffrent for some characters you mentioned, like Wanda. like, how is her teleportation ability related to alarming clock? how is reviving clock tied into any of this? the answer is theme, they're related to eachother, because they share the same theme, so why's it diffrent for Wurt? her perks can be summarized into "is a merm" and "wants to build a merm kingdom". does Wanda get a free pass cause she's amazing? (she is, can't argue, but still)). 

 

 

[Vasz_]

6 hours ago, skile said:

have a way to quickly unbefriend all merms at once(kill a fish)

******* hell. I wish I had known this before I had to perform all those ceremonial dances around the fire pit because I have too cook 40 potatoes and there's 50 merms blocking the view.

[Maxposting]

On 5/1/2022 at 3:22 PM, Miss. Havisham said:

I guess the nurse spiders are good for healing... that's if you have enough of them? But yeah apart from that Wurt is god.

religion sucks as of today.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

3 hours ago, __IvoCZE__ said:

religion sucks as of today.

only when you pray to false gods

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn

[Mysterious box]

On 7/13/2022 at 2:59 PM, Pig Princess said:

1. Wurt gains power much slower than Webber, she requires much more setup. Both spiders and merms help to scale corresponding army (monster meat farm and wood farm respectively), but Wurt is just slower: realistically before farming wood Wurt needs to clear forests from spiders/pigs (which is a problem for small initial number of merms

Just afew small nitpicks since I more or less have no big issues with what you said early game low availability on merms is more so a illusion unless world gen is really really bad for swap as each rundown shack holds 4 merms so when it hits dusk you can light the house on fire to force them out for 4 merms per shack and throw a water ballon made from the mosquito sacks you can fill at the pond or use a watering can.(this can also be used to get normal merms out in winter)

On 7/13/2022 at 2:59 PM, Pig Princess said:

she needs to run through half of the map with her merms to chop said wood (and get more food for befriending them because of that, which is extra more time to spend)

Trees aren't always far from the swamp and even then she can relocate forests if you bring a large number of merms they can reduce forests in seconds and melt tree guards also keeping a group fed is eaiser than it seems due to the shared loyalty merms get and it gets extremely easy to keep a massive horde of merms once you get access to a merm guard which shares what you give to a guard with 5 extra merms while also increasing the loyalty gain off the food you gave them you should most often be able to keep them loyal off seeds.

On 7/13/2022 at 2:59 PM, Pig Princess said:

plus merm huts are more expensive than cost of befriending spider/switcherdoodles, and live freshwater fish doesn't even stack.

While this is true the upside on Wurt's end is she can keep her high tier minions at her base of operations always battle ready for travel and fresh water fish not stacking is painful but this can also be cheesed you can create merm wars for a lot of fish and then give all your fish to one of you merms as they have no stack limit then take them to where you need the fish and murder them for a fish explosion.

14 hours ago, Theukon-dos said:

. That's fair, but it's still a bit weird for a minion character to be so strong in and of themselves. Wendy has below average damage in exchange for Abigail

Except thanks to Abigail damage buff petals Wendy herself hits harder than the average player

 

14 hours ago, Theukon-dos said:

. But ultimately they're still just pigs. Same behaviour, same recruitment. A stronger pig is still just a pig.

I mean if you pick apart what makes them similar most followers bunnymen and spiders are just pigs as well.

 

14 hours ago, Theukon-dos said:

Mermions only help speed up the already-fast process of cracking stonefruit open. And you can do that even faster with Gunpowder or Slurtle Slime.

If you completely ignore prep time and are just console command spawning those in.

14 hours ago, Theukon-dos said:

Wurt doesn't have any perks that let her collect Stonefruit bushes easier

This is like saying wendy has no perks to farm mobs because it's Abigail who does it.

I also hate the no synergy debate because it feels like a excuse to not give good reasons for not liking something even the old cast didn't fall into synergy for the most part.

[Theukon-dos]

12 hours ago, skile said:

(i apologize in advance, for a wall of text i'm about to send) 

I understand that Wurt has a lot of perks, not all of which are directly related to each other, but I just don't understand why it matters?

i, personaly, find these characters to be the most enjoyable in the game, and as i can assume, other people who main Wurt probably like to play as her as well. so, let's say such characters are just appealing to a certain group of people, as opposed to being popular with most people(which, i must say, is completely fine in a game with such amount of characters). the reason I personally find Wurt great is exactly because of her perks, all of which make my life just a bit easier. 

like, most of Wurt's perks either act as a handy QoL and make sense cause she's a merm(no wetness sanity loss and strong grip, frog neutrality, fish pet stuff) or make you want to go sailing to some extent(need for kelp to build king's tapestry, no penalties for abandoning ship or drowning, better trades for ocean fish and better use of sunfish/winter fish). 

See, I'm not opposed too "Offshoot" perks or QoL perks. They are certainly good for rounding a character out. The issue is that for the most part, Wurt is just QoL perks. The closest she has too Synergy is the KOTM being able to buff all merms in the world instead of just Wurt herself.

12 hours ago, skile said:

as for Merms, yeah they're just better pigs. 

better in every way. 

Pigs are barely used for their minion functions, due to being available only during day(so you would need to have their houses near the trees) and being awful at fighting. 

Merms are:easy to mass produce, easy to quickly befriend in large amounts, due to being able to be tamed with veggies, including seeds and kelp, and being befriended in amounts of 3, can chop wood AND mine rocks (whole day cycle, mind you), have a way to quickly unbefriend all merms at once(kill a fish), and have more hp. 

Merms with king alive are also:even healthier, have 40 damage (instead of previous 30), neutral to all players (unlike those pigs, who atack Webber and Wortox players)

Loyal guards are: even more healthy than previous merms(660 hp), even stronger(50 damage), even better for fighting (boss scream immunity), faster(10% faster than regular merms iirc) and friendlier(6 merms per 1 food item, all merm guards also get 50% more loyalty from food). 

so in conclusion, does it even matter that they're somewhat similar to pigs, when pigs are barely comparable? 

My point wasn't about the effectiveness of Merms, just that having them be "Pigs+" is rather boring. Again, Webber's interesting because his spider minions have a different dynamic than Pigs, being incredibly weak but also easy to make massive swarms of.

12 hours ago, skile said:

and in conclusion to my rant: Wurt is fine, she's just probably not for you. 

No accounting for taste I suppose.

12 hours ago, skile said:

(also i still don't understand the whole "perks don't relate to each other", so could you please explain it to me if you have time? i don't see how it's diffrent for some characters you mentioned, like Wanda. like, how is her teleportation ability related to alarming clock? how is reviving clock tied into any of this? the answer is theme, they're related to eachother, because they share the same theme, so why's it diffrent for Wurt? her perks can be summarized into "is a merm" and "wants to build a merm kingdom". does Wanda get a free pass cause she's amazing? (she is, can't argue, but still)). 

Generally speaking, I find that characters who's perks relate to each other tend to feel a bit more coherent overall and are often more interesting as a result.

Take Wigfrid for example, the second most popular character in the game. Wigfrid is a good fighter, dealing more damage while taking less damage, restores stats just from fighting opponents, and she starts with Armor and a weapon right out of the gate, giving players means to be fighting as soon as possible. But in addition, she also only eats meat. This means that, while Wigfrid was good at fighting before, she's now actively encouraged to do so sense she can't survive off of only berries or farming like other survivors. And then she can also make songs, which help her fight even better.

So ultimately, despite how simple her kit is, Wigfrid's character design is extremely focused and compelling. It's no surprised that the only think Klei needed to do for her refresh was too make her better at the things she was already good at, along with giving her a bit more team play via her songs.

 

And in regards to Wanda, the difference is that the Backtreck and Second chance watches are the "offshoot" perks that I mentioned earlier. And despite them, Wanda is without a doubt the best and most cohesively designed character in the game. Let's start at the top.

To begin, Wanda's health is replaced with an "age" meter. This meter perpetually ticks upwards towards her death, and because it's not a traditional "Health" meter, it can't be restored by traditional means. Instead, Wanda needs to use her Ageless Watches inorder too restore her health/youth. These restore relatively little and have a bit of a cooldown, Plus the healing is canceled if Wanda takes any damage.. So, While Wanda is able to sustain herself, She struggles in instances where she's taking a lot of damage all at once, such as in boss fights.

And then, Wanda has 3 different forms based on how high her age meter is. Young, Middle-aged, and Old. Young Wanda is in her prime, Middle-aged Wanda is still going strong, but a bit squishier, And Old Wanda is both extremely frail and works a lot slower.

But, as she gets older, Wanda also gets better at using Shadow Magic. Not having any skill while young, being alright with it at middle aged, and being great at it while Old. This means that, despite her limited healing, Wanda has great incentive too risk being on low HP inorder to extract the benefits, especially from her Alarming clock.

So ultimately, we have a character with a unique health mechanic who has limited access too healing, while also having strong incentive to risk being on low HP to access her other perks. Wanda is, again, one of the tightest and most cohesively designed characters that Klei has put out. Her bonus watches are just the cherries on top of the best cake you've ever eaten.

59 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Except thanks to Abigail damage buff petals Wendy herself hits harder than the average player

This is true, but she is still dependent on Abigail for that damage.

59 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

I mean if you pick apart what makes them similar most followers bunnymen and spiders are just pigs as well.

Bunnymen aren't character exclusive. And as I keep saying, Spiders are different becuase they're extremely weak, but also incredable swarmers.

59 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

If you completely ignore prep time and are just console command spawning those in.

But again, Harvesting Stonefruit still isn't slow in and of itself; so long as you're not saving up hundreds or thousands before cracking them open. Wurt still doesn't have any perks pertaining to the actual collection or cultivation of stonefruit.

59 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

This is like saying wendy has no perks to farm mobs because it's Abigail who does it.

See above

59 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

I also hate the no synergy debate because it feels like a excuse to not give good reasons for not liking something even the old cast didn't fall into synergy for the most part.

You do realize that the entire cast pre-Wortox is getting reworked, right? It's almost like Klei got better at designing characters and that their old cast wasn't very good.

[Mysterious box]

1 hour ago, Theukon-dos said:

My point wasn't about the effectiveness of Merms, just that having them be "Pigs+" is rather boring. Again, Webber's interesting because his spider minions have a different dynamic than Pigs, being incredibly weak but also easy to make massive swarms of.

that dynamic is flawed when you consider most spider variants either have higher hp than pigs or close to them and that's before considering spider nurses exist

 

1 hour ago, Theukon-dos said:

And in regards to Wanda, the difference is that the Backtreck and Second chance watches are the "offshoot" perks that I mentioned earlier. And despite them, Wanda is without a doubt the best and most cohesively designed character in the game. Let's start at the top.

To begin, Wanda's health is replaced with an "age" meter. This meter perpetually ticks upwards towards her death, and because it's not a traditional "Health" meter, it can't be restored by traditional means. Instead, Wanda needs to use her Ageless Watches inorder too restore her health/youth. These restore relatively little and have a bit of a cooldown, Plus the healing is canceled if Wanda takes any damage.. So, While Wanda is able to sustain herself, She struggles in instances where she's taking a lot of damage all at once, such as in boss fights.

And then, Wanda has 3 different forms based on how high her age meter is. Young, Middle-aged, and Old. Young Wanda is in her prime, Middle-aged Wanda is still going strong, but a bit squishier, And Old Wanda is both extremely frail and works a lot slower.

But, as she gets older, Wanda also gets better at using Shadow Magic. Not having any skill while young, being alright with it at middle aged, and being great at it while Old. This means that, despite her limited healing, Wanda has great incentive too risk being on low HP inorder to extract the benefits, especially from her Alarming clock.

So ultimately, we have a character with a unique health mechanic who has limited access too healing, while also having strong incentive to risk being on low HP to access her other perks. Wanda is, again, one of the tightest and most cohesively designed characters that Klei has put out. Her bonus watches are just the cherries on top of the best cake you've ever eaten.

it's funny you say this because the alarming clock has always felt out of place to me and I've said so in the past just because it's a clock doesn't automatically justify it's existence. 

1 hour ago, Theukon-dos said:

This is true, but she is still dependent on Abigail for that damage.

As Wurt is dependent on merms for faster resource harvesting and higher damage output

1 hour ago, Theukon-dos said:

Bunnymen aren't character exclusive. And as I keep saying, Spiders are different becuase they're extremely weak, but also incredable swarmers.

but most variants of spiders aren't very weak but even if we use this as justification we could also say merms are different because their durable just feels like a weak argument either way and them being good swarms also applies to merms from rundown shacks no?

 

1 hour ago, Theukon-dos said:

But again, Harvesting Stonefruit still isn't slow in and of itself; so long as you're not saving up hundreds or thousands before cracking them open. Wurt still doesn't have any perks pertaining to the actual collection or cultivation of stonefruit.

hmm so what your saying is merms mining stone fruit does nothing to aid in the collection of stone fruit?

1 hour ago, Theukon-dos said:

You do realize that the entire cast pre-Wortox is getting reworked, right? It's almost like Klei got better at designing characters and that their old cast wasn't very good.

Synergy argument is usually followed by "old cast had synergy" so if that wasn't the point you were making my bad there.

[Scrimbles]

On 5/1/2022 at 9:13 AM, Theukon-dos said:

Playing Webber means you don't have to play the worst designed character in the game

Based

[Mysterious box]

On 7/13/2022 at 12:01 PM, Theukon-dos said:

She's a minion character who can't befriend pigs, but can befried merms. Alright, not a bad start. Except for the fact that; unlike Webber; Merms are just pigs. Unlike Webber whose spiders have a unique dynamic (Incredibly weak, but cheap to set up and mass-recruit), the only real difference between Merms and Pigs is the fact that Merms can also mine rocks. 

and the fact you can recruit merms in 3's or 6's at a time, they're not scared at dusk or night,you can dismiss them manually, you can give them fish to recruit them which they will not eat, the fact their movement speed is faster, they're twice as durable, they work faster,  and they don't eat things off the ground when loyal. The dynamic of webber's followers being weak is ruined by the existence of nurses and high hp spiders since they're actually more durable than most of the game's followers

 

On 7/13/2022 at 12:01 PM, Theukon-dos said:

In addition, she doesn't really have any need for minions in the first place. Her stats are average right out of the box and become super high when a King of the Merms is alive; only being beaten out by an upgraded WX. combine that with the fact that the mash biome is effectively one giant cobblestone road for her, and she's much better off for fighting than most other characters all on her own.

I don't see the need for a follower character to be weak but she's not just a follower character she's a merm she exists beyond her follower mechanic

 

On 7/13/2022 at 12:01 PM, Theukon-dos said:

She's an herbivore. But unlike other characters who have dietary restrictions, Wurt doesn't have any special abilities that make it easier for her to get the foods she can eat.. Wigfrid is proficient in combat which makes her good at hunting meat, And Warly has his own crock pot with unique recipes. Meanwhile, Wurt has a flat stat boost from food so that she doesn't starve to death every winter. Not something interesting like "Merms can tend to crops and harvest them" or "Is good at scavenging for food and can find some during winter". Just, "Get more stats". Plain and boring as it is.

Doesn't need it since non meat food is plentiful even in winter so it would just make her unnecessarily easier.

 

On 7/13/2022 at 12:01 PM, Theukon-dos said:

She doesn't loose sanity from wetness which is fine. It doesn't tie into any of her other kit, but she is a fish so whatever. HOWEVER, what I will point out is that; as of when that first comment was made; Wurt was still penalized for being wet despite the fact that she both wasn't penalized for falling off a boat, and had a strong grip that kept her from dropping wet items. So for a period of over 2 years, the fish who kept talking about liking the water... didn't like the water.

Her quotes specifically say she likes water and has since her release her not having wetness protection was likely a balancing measure but Kiel themselves have stated while not specifically for Wurt that they've changed their minds on where the game's balance is for example I doubt Wx would have been given full screen night vision or weather immunity passively a few years back. 

[Idk1234567890]

Because webber looks better i guess

[PandoPon]

On 5/1/2022 at 3:13 PM, Theukon-dos said:

Playing Webber means you don't have to play the worst designed character in the game

Walter?

[Theukon-dos]

Just now, PandoPon said:

Walter?

Ok. Gonna be honest. I've given Walter a lot of **** in the past. However, on further reflection, Walter himself is honestly not that bad. Just extremely undertuned.

He does have a lot "Flavor" perks, which is kind of meh. But of his largest perks, he is rather cohesive and has a lot of potential.

Walter's main perk is his slingshot, which lets him fight at range. He's also afraid of getting hurt, so fighting at range is something he wants to do. He also has Woby, who is also afraid of getting hurt. But Woby is also rideable, which makes it easier for Walter to kite enemies while keeping them at a distance with his slingshot. Combine that with his tent which lets Walter cheaply turn food into HP and sanity, and he's pretty all right all around. Ultimately, I'd say the only thing he really needs is a significant buff to his slingshot damage, 20 rounds per ammo craft instead of 10, and to tune up the Woby changes currently on the beta so that she can take 1-2 hits from any creature before bucking Walter off.

[Eughstein]

17 hours ago, Idk1234567890 said:

Because webber looks better i guess

source?

[Owlrust]

Dang this thread still going?!

[Eughstein]

This whole thread is literally Wurt haters explaining why Wurt bad and Webber haters explaining why Webber bad, can we stop already?

[Cheggf]

3 hours ago, Eughstein said:

This whole thread is literally Wurt haters explaining why Wurt bad and Webber haters explaining why Webber bad, can we stop already?

You are half the posts in the thread. 

[Eughstein]

1 hour ago, Cheggf said:

You are half the posts in the thread. 

yeah and?

[Theukon-dos]

9 hours ago, Owlrust said:

Dang this thread still going?!

Blame the scoundrel who decided to post on here for the first time in over 2 months.

[Astraia]

On 5/1/2022 at 9:08 AM, Keller Max said:

Merms are smarter, Merms are stronger, Merms are cheaper to hire, Merms can chop wood, Merms can mine rocks, Merms dont steal food, Merm king can give treasures and stats.

What are spiders good for? Switcherdoodles are extremely expensive, for the most types of spooders. Spiders are extremely weak and fragile. Very unreliable.

The only Wurt downside is a setup requirement, but its so much worth it.

Webber has free healing and also doesn't have a strict diet as Wurt does, not only that, but Webber can eat monster meat without penalty (also the fact that he can eat any sort of raw meat without the sanity penalty)

According to the DS Wiki, Monster Meat serves 18.75 hunger to the player, while Durians give Wurt 48.25 hunger.
While Durians serve more hunger to Wurt, monster meat is more abundant, especially if you are playing as Webber.
What fact does this prove? It's the fact that Webber has an awesome reliable food source to count on ALL YEAR ROUND.
Sure, even though Wurt gains more hunger through any vegetable, it's still hard to gather food during Winter (unless you have early stone fruit bushes and a reliable farming system)

While Merms are smart creatures, spiders for Webber are still awesome because he has access to nurse spiders, which heal both Webber AND the spiders, which makes spiders great for boss battles, especially since they can tank the damage for you (So can Merms, but that brings me to my next point).
Even though Wurt has Merms, where is their healing at? It's not like she has nurse merms that can heal (But that'll be OP, since merms are strong and have more hp, and Merms already have hp regen)
I don't have any other statement to go against merms (I'm not against them at all) because I have to agree that spiders and merms are great boss battle companions, the only downside here is the setup requirement for Wurt.
You don't always need switcherdoodles to get spiders (unless you want nurse ones), just befriend any spider you want instead of feeding regular spiders some doodles. Spitters and Cave Spiders are superabundant in the caves, and so are Dwellers, so I don't find switcherdoodles necessary in those situations. For Spider Warriors and Nurse Spiders, though, while the switcherdoodles for them are expensive, I still recommend you use those.
If you aren't rushing bosses, I wouldn't rely on armies of spiders for boss battles but do what you do.

Plus, Wurt gains power much slower than Webber does

I don't have anything against Wurt or Webber, I just wanted to be part of the Argument :^)

One more thing, Wurt and Webber aren't even close to being the same type of character 

that's all I have to say 

[JJ0264]

On 7/18/2022 at 2:42 PM, NightfallsCurse said:

Webber AND the spiders, which makes spiders great for boss battles, especially since they can tank the damage for you (So can Merms, but that brings me to my next point).
Even though Wurt has Merms, where is their healing at? It's not like she has nurse merms that can heal (But that'll be OP, since merms are strong and have more hp)
I don't have any other statement to go against merms (I'm not against them at all) because I have to agree that spiders and merms are great boss battle companions, the only downside here is the setup requirement for Wurt.

When it come to fighting spiders are better...but because Merms can mow down marble trees faster than anyone (Marble armor) + cheap swamp cobblestone + Merm King gives Wurt 250 health + Merms can auto farm basically anything that's near there hut (ham-bats + helmets)

Wurt doesn't need Warrior Merms as she her self is good enough as is  (Warrior Merms are unnecessary only for auto kill Bosses)

[Astraia]

On 7/17/2022 at 4:56 AM, Eughstein said:

This whole thread is literally Wurt haters explaining why Wurt bad and Webber haters explaining why Webber bad, can we stop already?

We can't start an argument and not finish it