shadowtiger123 Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 literally the title. pls dont make maxwell a brain dead character like abigail and pls dont add a tedious minigame in maxwell refresh pls Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/137358-maxwell-rework-ideas/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil K Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 Since Maxwell is with the other survivors for some time now, I think he should have a way to give buffs for the other players, maybe more damage dealt or less taken. Something similar to what happened to Wolfgang in his video. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/137358-maxwell-rework-ideas/#findComment-1538170 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArubaroBeefalo Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 i would like s glass cannon summoner to fill the void of the 1st wendy refresh Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/137358-maxwell-rework-ideas/#findComment-1538172 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsheen Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 bigger nose in all seriousness, I'm with ArubaroBeefalo, make Maxwell have actual combat ability via summons Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/137358-maxwell-rework-ideas/#findComment-1538175 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowDuelist Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 Maxwell has the codex umbra, and messed with the very fabric of reality at the constant. He should at least be more powerful than what he is. Also some official art shows him as much more badass than what he is with his minions. Spoiler #makeshadowduelistsgreat Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/137358-maxwell-rework-ideas/#findComment-1538182 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohan Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 No sanity drain from using magic items. Codex Umbra can manipulate the fabric of the Constant and open wormholes for fast travel. A mechanism that rewards him with high damage to offset his very low max HP. A unique weapon that reflects his mastery over nightmare fuel. And/or better proficiency with a dark sword since that was part of his spawn inventory in DS:A. You know, abilities that reflect his fantasy of being a shadow magician and former king of the constant, that sorta thing. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/137358-maxwell-rework-ideas/#findComment-1538184 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil K Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 20 minutes ago, Ohan said: No sanity drain from using magic items. Codex Umbra can manipulate the fabric of the Constant and open wormholes for fast travel. A mechanism that rewards him with high damage to offset his very low max HP. A unique weapon that reflects his mastery over nightmare fuel. And/or better proficiency with a dark sword since that was part of his spawn inventory in DS:A. You know, abilities that reflect his fantasy of being a shadow magician and former king of the constant, that sorta thing. Is that sarcasm or you really want Maxwell to be Wanda? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/137358-maxwell-rework-ideas/#findComment-1538187 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echsrick Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 40 minutes ago, Lil K said: Is that sarcasm or you really want Maxwell to be Wanda? i mean, it is kinda sad that wanda came out of nowhere and is somehow stronger whit shadow stuff then the former king himself Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/137358-maxwell-rework-ideas/#findComment-1538192 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloakingsumo198 Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 3 minutes ago, Dr.Medic said: i mean, it is kinda sad that wanda came out of nowhere and is somehow stronger whit shadow stuff then the former king himself Fr fr. Coming up with ideas for Maxwell might take some pages from Wanda but that's fine with me. They can share traits somewhat and still be different enough. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/137358-maxwell-rework-ideas/#findComment-1538193 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Safety Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 I think he just needs a buff with his combat summons. Far fetched but I thought it would be cool that he could upgrade his codex at the ancient pseudoscience station which would allow him to craft crawling horrors and terrorbeaks for 5 nightmarefuel that would fight for him. I'll just take any buff to his combat minions. I also think he just needs more interactions with magic items, specifically dark sword and night armor. Less sanity loss or more durability with them, just something. Killing two birds with one stone, they could make it so that if Maxwell has a dark sword and/or night armor equipped, his shadow minions will gain their damage/armor. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/137358-maxwell-rework-ideas/#findComment-1538201 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Giggio Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 i gave a shot few days ago and tried this handsome fella https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2607507857 and pretty much he has everything what maxwell should do, but dont. i mean, decent AI and status in his puppets which can do what they are intented to. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/137358-maxwell-rework-ideas/#findComment-1538212 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohan Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 1 hour ago, Cloakingsumo198 said: They can share traits somewhat and still be different enough. sharing traits or archetypes is fine as long as they’re shaped by a fantasy unique to each character. Like Wurt employs merms to chop trees while Woodie is a werebeaver lumberjack. Both gatherers but extremely different identities. with Maxwell/Wanda its the other way around where they r different archetypes but Wanda completely co-opted Maxwell’s identity as a nightmare fuel/shadow magician. And to make matters worse she fulfills that fantasy better than he does. This is unprecedented. Maxwell is the most iconic character in the game (probably tied with Wilson), he didn’t deserve this how could they give immunity to sanity drain from magic items and better proficiency with a dark sword to anyone other than Maxwell, the magician character who sat on the nightmare throne? Wanda has her time traveling clockmaker identity why did she need this as well? It’s so odd to me. they seriously need to blow his refresh out of the water. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/137358-maxwell-rework-ideas/#findComment-1538225 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hornete Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 11 minutes ago, Ohan said: they seriously need to blow his refresh out of the water. As much as I love Wanda, she makes me scared and happy for Maxwells refresh. Happy because Klei proved they can do some nuts stuff with good ol shadow magic for a character. Scared because I dont know if Maxwell will live up to Wanda's design. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/137358-maxwell-rework-ideas/#findComment-1538229 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Safety Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 1 hour ago, Ohan said: sharing traits or archetypes is fine as long as they’re shaped by a fantasy unique to each character. Like Wurt employs merms to chop trees while Woodie is a werebeaver lumberjack. Both gatherers but extremely different identities. with Maxwell/Wanda its the other way around where they r different archetypes but Wanda completely co-opted Maxwell’s identity as a nightmare fuel/shadow magician. And to make matters worse she fulfills that fantasy better than he does. This is unprecedented. Maxwell is the most iconic character in the game (probably tied with Wilson), he didn’t deserve this how could they give immunity to sanity drain from magic items and better proficiency with a dark sword to anyone other than Maxwell, the magician character who sat on the nightmare throne? Wanda has her time traveling clockmaker identity why did she need this as well? It’s so odd to me. they seriously need to blow his refresh out of the water. What if they just made Maxwell get everything that Wanda's old age has in regards to magic items, except maybe the damage? That plus his passive sanity gain and his minions would make him a pretty balanced character I'd imagine. Maybe also give the codex some other uses besides being just a crafting station. Maybe some shadow spells or something, I dunno Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/137358-maxwell-rework-ideas/#findComment-1538238 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Giggio Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 1 hour ago, Hornete said: As much as I love Wanda, she makes me scared and happy for Maxwells refresh. Happy because Klei proved they can do some nuts stuff with good ol shadow magic for a character. Scared because I dont know if Maxwell will live up to Wanda's design. right? its so hard to keep the level when they set the bar that high Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/137358-maxwell-rework-ideas/#findComment-1538240 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheggf Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 I'd like if he got a few of Wanda's perks, lost the requirement of having the flint tools for his summons (main problem with duelists is you have to lug around a bunch of rope, twigs, and flint and do 2 craft animations for 1 duelist), could craft without dropping his book, and maybe got 1-4 things he can do other than summon harvesters and duelists. But most importantly I want him to get a cool summoning animation for using his book instead of the generic work one. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/137358-maxwell-rework-ideas/#findComment-1538243 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swag Master69 Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 My friend and I discuss ideas for a Maxwell refresh quite a bit and we have a some ideas that we like. Pros: 1. Maxwell's shadow duelists should be invulnerable to all types of enemies barring Greater Gestalts/Celestial Champion (more on the moon later). To balance this out, Maxwell has to be actively engaged with an enemy for the duelists to attack. If Maxwell goes a certain amount of time without dealing damage they will deaggro and return to Maxwell's side. 2. The Stagehand could be used to buff Maxwell's magic in some way. It could either be a crafting station or give Maxwell a magic buff while nearby. 3. Maxwell needs an overall magic buff, Wes should not be a better spell caster than Maxwell. Maxwell should get a durability buff to Ice/Fire Staff usages and possibly get unique spells that only he can use. For example, with a Fire Staff Maxwell could cast a damaging fireball in addition to the short damage over time you normally get, or his fire only effects enemies and doesn't spread to items/structures (unless actively targeted). 4. Give the poor man his 20 sanity/min regen back. One of his gimmicks in DS was that he had half the health of a normal character but essentially removed the sanity meter. In DST this can be a blessing and a curse, while having high sanity is always nice, it makes it hard to deal with the lunar areas. This leads me into... Cons: 1. Lunar magic. I'm sure the moon wouldn't play nice with the former "Shadow King". We see in Cyclum that while Maxwell's ability to control shadow magic is pitiful, he still has shadow magic within him. Greater Gestalts could attack Maxwell by default (but with a FAR smaller aggro range than normal, it's annoying enough to stroll through the grotto as it is). Lunar items could function slightly worse for Maxwell as well, Glass Axes wouldn't be as efficient, Glass Cutters wouldn't have the bonus durability to shadows, etc. 2. 20 sanity/min would make doing lunar activities harder without having shadow followers, it would also make gathering nightmare fuel a bit harder. Other: 1. All survivors that were brought in by Maxwell gain 5 sanity for punching him when PVP is on (Except for Wes, he's too pure for that). 2. Maxwell can now finish his thoughts and no longer trails off when discussing key lore details (It couldn't be...). Of course we're not game devs, for all we know some of this could be absolutely game breaking somehow. But Maxwell is just such a cool character conceptually and lorewise, it's saddening to see his current state in DST. Hopefully the refresh delivers some much needed love to our love deprived egomaniac. Oh and don't get us started on the refresh trailer oh my GOD there's so much they could do there. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/137358-maxwell-rework-ideas/#findComment-1538244 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohan Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 25 minutes ago, Dr. Safety said: What if they just made Maxwell get everything that Wanda's old age has in regards to magic items This feels like a must. Maxwell deserves to have this or some similarly powerful magic tab related perk.. 25 minutes ago, Dr. Safety said: except maybe the damage? I still think it suits Maxwell more to be better at using a dark sword since he spawns with one in DSA and his duelists carry them. Besides this perk is completely wasted on Wanda anyway. With the way they tuned Alarming clock there’s zero reason to use dark swords as wanda other than as a challenge since the AC is unquestionably the best weapon in the game. that being said, i agree it would be more interesting to focus Maxwell’s shadowy combat prowess into his duelists since his puppets are what make him unique. Besides unless they go completely bonkers he will never be able to compete with Wanda carrying an AC when it comes to direct combat. His combat power should be expressed through actually good duelists. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/137358-maxwell-rework-ideas/#findComment-1538246 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Safety Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 6 minutes ago, Ohan said: This feels like a must. Maxwell deserves to have this or some similarly powerful magic tab related perk.. I still think it suits Maxwell more to be better at using a dark sword since he spawns with one in DSA and his duelists carry them. Besides this perk is completely wasted on Wanda anyway. With the way they tuned Alarming clock there’s zero reason to use dark swords as wanda other than as a challenge since the AC is unquestionably the best weapon in the game. that being said, i agree it would be more interesting to focus Maxwell’s shadowy combat prowess into his duelists since his puppets are what make him unique. Besides unless they go completely bonkers he will never be able to compete with Wanda carrying an AC when it comes to direct combat. His combat power should be expressed through actually good duelists. What if Maxwell got his minion ability from the forge in some way when using a dark sword? Tweak the numbers and maybe allow it to happen more frequently since is melee damage. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/137358-maxwell-rework-ideas/#findComment-1538254 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArubaroBeefalo Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 maxwell can have different perks than wanda and still being a cool shadow master character. Why limiting shadow magic to max? we have seen that klei can create a cool character which uses shadow magic in her weapon, reduced sanity drain from using magic and time traveling perks while max can get better summoning, things like magic being more effective (instead of getting the same reduced sanity drain as wanda which isnt need since he has sanity reg) or any other cool shadow related stuff Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/137358-maxwell-rework-ideas/#findComment-1538256 Share on other sites More sharing options...
abrocator Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 Lore is that Maxwell is a chronically bored megabaser that forgot how to exit the game. So give him a unique craftable: golden pitchfork. And shadow pitchforkers. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/137358-maxwell-rework-ideas/#findComment-1538281 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shiguld Posted February 6, 2022 Share Posted February 6, 2022 I like some of the suggestions here for better combat ability, although i feel like we should try for a different combat angle than a straight damage boost. Perhaps give him a %chance to spawn shadow tentacles/minions when attacking anything, stacking with the thulecite club. I'd also like to see some QoL improvements for his codex. It feels awkward to have a crafting station in your inventory that you have to drop on the ground. I always lose my books because i made puppets and forgot to pick it up. Maybe make it equippable instead? Also, would be cool if they added more synergy between max/wicker/wanda. Like max being able to use the alarming clock, or "saving" the last read nearby wicker book that he can recast from his codex. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/137358-maxwell-rework-ideas/#findComment-1538304 Share on other sites More sharing options...
sosiskaKi Posted February 6, 2022 Share Posted February 6, 2022 Better Shadow Duelists. Let them have Night Armor protection and Dark Sword damage for more Nightmare Fuel cost (6). Can't regen health, you can fully heal them with Nightmare Fuel. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/137358-maxwell-rework-ideas/#findComment-1538306 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Safety Posted February 6, 2022 Share Posted February 6, 2022 12 minutes ago, shiguld said: I'd also like to see some QoL improvements for his codex. It feels awkward to have a crafting station in your inventory that you have to drop on the ground. I always lose my books because i made puppets and forgot to pick it up. Maybe make it equippable instead? I expect them to give it the Wes & Pile O' Balloons treatment, where the Codex will be a crafting ingredient in all his recipes, but not actually consume the item upon crafting. Without it, the only thing that Maxwell is able to craft from that tab is the Codex itself. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/137358-maxwell-rework-ideas/#findComment-1538307 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baark0 Posted February 6, 2022 Share Posted February 6, 2022 instead of swords his fighter shadows just punch people like really fast, and im just throwing out ideas here, but maybe they could say a voice line each time they punch, and maybe they could taunt enemies by saying things like "you're walking towards me? approach me as you wish" Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/137358-maxwell-rework-ideas/#findComment-1538311 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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