maxwell rework ideas?

[Astraia]

Buff shadow duelists cuz they're not that great

btw happy post 800 

[LiamAshvinn001]

On 2/7/2022 at 1:23 AM, Dollmaker said:

Because tbf, that perk is something that would fit him far more than Wanda.

They could probably do something around Shadow Weapons besides dmg though, like reduced durability consumption, regardless if it comes to DPS increase i would considerably prefer to have his Duelist work instead like the Forge Version, that way you dont have to deal with horrible AI that dies to in a single hit... 

Also, remove the crafting station thing... having to drop the book on the floor to craft anything is just annoying, just have it work like Wes's Pile O Ballons, so you only need to carry it with you to craft stuff, i would even argue remove the Tool Requirement and leave it at just be Nightmare Fuel. 

Dont wanna seem like beating on a dead horse, but uhh, the reason Wanda does more damage when shes old is based off the phrase, "It gets better with age". It makes sense cuz Wandas power is using shadows for TIME, she clearly can harness power through age and time, aka ageless watches. Instead, Maxwells more of the type of glass canon that isnt, more reward at lower health, its more of a punch does more damage no matter what, which helps separate him from Wanda. With Wanda, the damage boost only comes when her health is low, so u can technically just deal with the age meter disadvantage and benefit from the clocks without having to be a glass canon. Klei CAN make Maxwell and Wanda different shadow-using glass cannons, for example, Dark sword and Codex Umbra should float like in the vignette, but Maxwell should be able to refill its durability with nightmare fuel, less inventory space and you only need 1 Dark Sword. Maxwell by all accounts should actually be stronger than Wanda, but not really by making it that the lower his health is he has more perks, this helps sets him apart from Wanda. The reason Wanda is powerful is her craftables and damage with the Alarming Clock. The age meter going down helps balance out the craftables, since it balances out also with the fact u can only heal every 2 minutes, and her damage boost is only from when she has low health. 

Maxwell should get power from summonables, maybe instead of being a meter till nightmare creatures come, the sanity meter could act as a mana system? Add more risk and reward, u can use special powerful attacks that are stronger than the Alarming Clock, but go too low nightmare creatures start to come.

[hhh2]

Out of all the reworks this is the one i am most excited for. Maxwell is a great character but doesn't have the depth that wanda has. I propose that maxwell get some cool movement ablilties, like being able to short distances "soul-hop" style with the codex umbra with only a sanity cost, maybe also just steal the whole backtrech watch thing and have maxwell able to teleport anywhere on the map, too. His minions also need a touch up, they should only cost nightmare fuel, and the duelist needs a buff.

[LiamAshvinn001]

2 hours ago, hhh2 said:

Out of all the reworks this is the one i am most excited for. Maxwell is a great character but doesn't have the depth that wanda has. I propose that maxwell get some cool movement ablilties, like being able to short distances "soul-hop" style with the codex umbra with only a sanity cost, maybe also just steal the whole backtrech watch thing and have maxwell able to teleport anywhere on the map, too. His minions also need a touch up, they should only cost nightmare fuel, and the duelist needs a buff.

Movements yes, fast travel shouldn't copy characters like Wortox or Wanda, what if instead he did a Shadow Dash go forward whereas the backtrek watch went backwards

[LiamAshvinn001]

58 minutes ago, jan Mere said:

Wheeler 2.0

oh yeah... well... wheeler isnt DST

[Atkvin]

4 hours ago, hhh2 said:

I propose that maxwell get some cool movement ablilties, like being able to short distances "soul-hop" style with the codex umbra with only a sanity cost, maybe also just steal the whole backtrech watch thing and have maxwell able to teleport anywhere on the map, too

That just feels like you've run dry of ideas and want to just rip off mechanics from more fun characters..

I think Maxwell should be encouraged to be more active while his minions work, say allowing harvesters to follow and stay near the codex to keep working if the codex is dropped nearby, work faster and pick up resources into the player's inventory automatically when Maxwell is insane - encouraging players to keep themselves busy farming fuel while the minions work and collect on their own.

Then Maxwell, as the master of shadows, could be able to find more niche uses for said nm fuel - such as being able to burn it on firepits + get rid of shadow hands, using it as lantern fuel, make turf with the rest of his bulkload of resources that wards away nightmare creatures, etc.

If that's not enough, for some crazy lategame ability that kinda ironically feels stolen from Wanda, maybe Max could craft an expensive nightmare-fuel powered gramophone lategame that he can toy with to speed up or slow down the global time cycle for a period of time.

[hhh2]

1 minute ago, Atkvin said:

That just feels like you've run dry of ideas and want to just rip off mechanics from more fun characters..

I think Maxwell should be encouraged to be more active while his minions work, say allowing harvesters to follow and stay near the codex to keep working if the codex is dropped nearby, work faster and pick up resources into the player's inventory automatically when Maxwell is insane - encouraging players to keep themselves busy farming fuel while the minions work and collect on their own.

Then Maxwell, as the master of shadows, could be able to find more niche uses for said nm fuel - such as being able to burn it on firepits + get rid of shadow hands, using it as lantern fuel, make turf with the rest of his bulkload of resources that wards away nightmare creatures, etc.

If that's not enough, for some crazy lategame ability that kinda ironically feels stolen from Wanda, maybe Max could craft an expensive nightmare-fuel powered gramophone lategame that he can toy with to speed up or slow down the global time cycle for a period of time.

So wanda should be the only character with wanda tier perks? What's wrong with giving maxwell a teleport, he even teleports in the intro to every DS survival so it'd be thematic. Buring nightmare fuel on firepits doesn't really make any sense, even less when you remember the nightlight is that exact thing but worse. turf that wards away nightmare creatures sounds about as broken as just giving him craftable maxwell lights. Let's just let maxwell eat the nightmare fuel, too.

the gramophone idea, again doesn't make any sense, when has maxwell been shown to be able to manipluate time? It really can't be that detached from his character.

feels like you just want your money's worth from buying wanda.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

2 minutes ago, hhh2 said:

he even teleports in the intro to every DS survival so it'd be thematic

?? is a proyection of him but he is trapped in the throne so he never had that ability and even less without the "control the entire world" powers that gave to him the throne

 

2 minutes ago, hhh2 said:

So wanda should be the only character with wanda tier perks?

no but c&p the same perk isnt a good design and less when wanda simply has that perk because she can travel throw the time

[Mr Giggio]

On 2/5/2022 at 9:20 PM, shiguld said:

Like max being able to use the alarming clock

yooo this would be FIRE

[Atkvin]

1 hour ago, hhh2 said:

So wanda should be the only character with wanda tier perks?

I see I struck a nerve. Someone's real salty about Wanda and projecting that onto others lol. I never bought her, though she does look fun and novel if I ever come back to the game proper.

Copying another character would just be objectively boring and less interesting than giving Maxwell unique new mechanics to compete with them. You want Maxwell's refresh to be a fusion of Wortox and Wanda's mechanics tacked onto to his existing kit and powers? Why not just play those other characters?

 

That aside, I just wrote up whatever I thought might be cool and novel to do with shadows. I was trying to think of more ways for Maxwell to personally take advantage of and benefit from farming fuel and resources with his shadow puppets: turfs that protect Maxwell from the shadows as someone who has experience working with this ancient magic being one possibility I liked - the burning-fuel idea is definitely grasping at straws though, thinking more clearly now.

And I liked my gramophone idea! :c Shadow magic now has a precedent of association with time because of Wanda. (Slow-down rounds crafted with purple gems also supporting this apparently according to her) -- And if Wanda the outsider can poke holes in the constant to warp through dimensions and selfishly travel through time, it only feels fair that Maxwell can do the one thing she can't to one-up her and prove his powers as the one was once ruler of the constant, actually manipulate time within the constant for all its denizens with his iconic gramophone... which could fittingly speed up or slow down its music to demonstrate its effect.

[hhh2]

No no, you guys are right wanda should be the only character with teleportation, i'm wrong. Let's just give maxwell a shadow farmer and the ability to eat nightmare fuel.

[Echsrick]

2 minutes ago, hhh2 said:

wanda should be the only character with teleportation

sad wortox noise

[ArubaroBeefalo]

6 minutes ago, hhh2 said:

No no, you guys are right wanda should be the only character with teleportation, i'm wrong. Let's just give maxwell a shadow farmer and the ability to eat nightmare fuel.

[Dextops]

7 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

while i didn't agree with their main point at least try to be respectful

[hhh2]

26 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

 

[Pop Guy]

Maxwell should be able to summon a basalt obelisk. Imagine how many perfect traps could be created with indestructible basalt obelisks.

[Echsrick]

52 minutes ago, Pop Guy said:

Maxwell should be able to summon a basalt obelisk. Imagine how many perfect traps could be created with indestructible basalt obelisks.

totaly could not be used for trolling to, alsol random art that makes no sense

[Pop Guy]

19 minutes ago, Dr.Medic said:

totaly could not be used for trolling to, alsol random art that makes no sense

Traditionally, Maxwell, the shadows, and the basalt obelisks are linked together. However, statues, meat bulbs and burnt trees are already present in the game. Maxwell's obelisks would be more scenic and more comfortable to place, a nice original QOL, rather than the usual, banal "glass cannon" concept. And then, as they wrote above, Wanda already exists.

[Atkvin]

3 hours ago, hhh2 said:

No no, you guys are right wanda should be the only character with teleportation, i'm wrong. Let's just give maxwell a shadow farmer and the ability to eat nightmare fuel.

Oh I disagree, you are the one in the right here. Wanda shouldn't have a monopoly over her Wanda-tier perks, Maxwell should get some too to get back at people who play her instead of the afk resource gathering clown, he deserves it. Any other suggestions are clearly stupid and insulting my intelligence, they're simultaneously broken and not as broken as Wanda-tier mechanics, and I will strawman and refuse to constructively argue why Maxwell should just get hand-me-down mechanics of other characters other than "my main deserves to be OP too" and "why not" rather than mechanics that complement his gameplay and just offer him strength and depth in different areas.

(That being said, if he is unable to right now I don't see why Maxwell shouldn't be able to use Wanda's rift watches specifically similar to how he could use Wicker's books. It is shadow magic after all.)

[ArubaroBeefalo]

53 minutes ago, Pop Guy said:

Traditionally, Maxwell, the shadows, and the basalt obelisks are linked together. However, statues, meat bulbs and burnt trees are already present in the game. Maxwell's obelisks would be more scenic and more comfortable to place, a nice original QOL, rather than the usual, banal "glass cannon" concept. And then, as they wrote above, Wanda already exists.

they should simply add the blockers with insanity obelisk to some biomes. Is literally a line of code and looks really cool plus makes the world gen more interesting

51 minutes ago, Atkvin said:

That being said, if he is unable to right now I don't see why Maxwell shouldn't be able to use Wanda's rift watches specifically similar to how he could use Wicker's books. It is shadow magic after all

controlling space and time seems more difficult than hitting with a shadow weapon. I think would be cool to have access to AC but at young Wanda damage (so it doesn't become his only weapon like happens with wanda)

[Cloakingsumo198]

"Maxwell deserves to be "op" too, why not?"

Willow got bernie in her rework, wigfrid got ballads, Webber got QoL, Wes stopped being a joke, Wendy got op, Wolfgang got [REDACTED].

Wanda gets to exist.

Klei clearly doesn't mind trying to be experimental or make changes. Just not everything sticks...

I don't see why we shouldn't get wild here, or "borrow" ideas from others 

When Wolfgang got his work increase while mighty it didn't overshadow Maxwell and woodie lmao

Give him old person affinity so he can tap into Wanda's watches like he does with wicker's books.

More control over his minions cause they don't listen to the "king" he has to dance like a jester instead.

That's just general QoL changes.

They could add new structures or tools.

They could rework his minions, or give him new shadow mechanics which sounds way better to me than.

"more afk minions","better looking in dapper clothes" "turns to dust upon death" "takes more damage from punches because his huge shnoz"

Better off not limiting yourself because Klei will do the balancing and choosing.

 

Personally I wanna see summoner archetype come into fruition ALONG with shadow/magic affinity based mechanics, perks and high dps thru shadow fighters.

Since his whole "extremely dapper", "nightmare fuel affinity" and "used to be shadow king" shticks got thrown out the window for "comedy relief lore tease megabaser"

Let me have two cakes like Wanda or I'm calling bias. 

Spoiler

This guy used to be intimidating, he used to be "king", he was "fragile", he was "magic", and the extreme dapperness showed he meant business and was well tuned in "his" own world....

Now it's all shadow minions......

OR maybe.....

Just maybe he was always just this "bumbling" fool doing "nothing"....

I really hope not

 

 

[Mr_Vol]

As a Maxwell main all I want to see is:
● A toggle switch for my workers to turn on and off (maybe the codex could open or closed to show?)
●A buff to the duelist (maybe feeding them nightmare fuel to get a boost and health gain)
●The shovel worker being able to dig up sapling and grass tuffs again. (Maybe only digs up what you have gathered from or inspected?)

If your looking for extra ideas then I would suggest:
●Repair items that use nightmare fuel to craft.
●Start off with tier 1 magic unlocked
●Boost of staff weapons either less durablty lost or for damage (could be a new craft from his book)
●Removing the need to resummon a shadow minions with a tools or spear (should only need the tool or spear on the first summon)
●A way to upgrade or understand the codex better if you have unlocked tier 2 magic to summon better shadows?
●A Shadow to enchanted others to gain a Damage and Armor boost for a time.

I feel that the magician of the group that has been studying staffs and amulets for years should have some improved knowledge on the items. I also feel that Maxwell won't know the true power of the codex at the start of the game and  unlocking tier 2 magic and upgrading your codex should make Maxwell better understand the codex to use it more efficiently.

The fact that you have to carrie your codex/nightmare fuel and all the components to craft tools and spears is a down side in on itself and in late game trying to find fint is a great pain. Being able to summon Shadows with the cost of only nightmare fuel after the first time (early game should still be hard) should really be considered.
I tried my best to come up with ideas that other characters don't have and reasons why someone would want to play Maxwell in a group, cause we know that there are other fantastic ways of getting you resources you need. Thank you for reading.

[Amaros]

● A toggle switch for my workers to turn on and off (maybe the codex could open or closed to show?)
> an additional way to click a certain resources to be worked on would be nice, like how actionqueue does by highlighting it, but its abit tall order i think
 
●A buff to the duelist (maybe feeding them nightmare fuel to get a boost and health gain)
> not my original thought, but cant remember who said it, but having extra hp and a way to equip dark sword and night armor (or just straight include it in the recipe) would be nice, that actually makes them viable in fights

●The shovel worker being able to dig up sapling and grass tuffs again. (Maybe only digs up what you have gathered from or inspected?) 
> same comment as per the toggle one at the top

●Repair items that use nightmare fuel to craft.
> im just nitpicking on the phrasing XD; you mean: shadow items can be repaired using fuel BY maxwell 

●Start off with tier 1 magic unlocked 
> makes sense

●Boost of staff weapons either less durablty lost or for damage (could be a new craft from his book)
> just imo, also makes it cost more sanity on maxwell (not only for balance, but to also have a way to get his sanity down, cause he really recovers it way to fast)

●Removing the need to resummon a shadow minions with a tools or spear (should only need the tool or spear on the first summon)
> i think this is overpowered, gotta shoot you down on this one 

●A way to upgrade or understand the codex better if you have unlocked tier 2 magic to summon better shadows?
> i like this, at least disguised for the duelist (tier 2 can be called a soldier or something, with the duelist being basic af, and the soldier with the dark sword/night armor upgrades)

●A Shadow to enchanted others to gain a Damage and Armor boost for a time. 
> if the duelist went as i had mentioned, then i think this wont be necessary generally

The fact that you have to carrie your codex/nightmare fuel and all the components to craft tools and spears is a down side in on itself and in late game trying to find fint is a great pain. Being able to summon Shadows with the cost of only nightmare fuel after the first time (early game should still be hard) should really be considered.
> im confused, how did you end up with no flint near end game? plentiful in the caves, and extremely renewable with petrified trees lol
> 
> i just drop the codex at base and only ever go back to it if they die (but note that i just straight out, do not use duelist at all, so either i fight solo, or im 100% doing harvesting only)

other side note
i think amulet should last longer/more uses when maxwell uses em (like LGFA heals more times/or heal more hp but same quantity of time, construction amulet have more uses etc)
 

[Psychic Chicken]

Here's my idea:

Shadow workers only start working when you examine a boulder, tree, stump, etc. and only destroy objects of that type. This would mean the diggers can now dig plants, and when you command your logger to chop evergreens, it won't chop Winter's Feast trees or birchnut trees. This applies to duelists, so if there's an enemy that would one shot your duelist, you can fight it on your own without your duelist drawing aggro and dying. You can click the "Stop Working" command on the codex umbra to bring them all back to their passive state.

Maxwell does 50% less damage with all weapons, BUT, he now has a few exclusive shadow weapons, and he can equip up to 4 shadow weapons (doesn't take your hand slot) making them float next to him. You go insane REALLY fast when doing so though.

All shadow puppets drain Maxwell's sanity when they're doing their job.

Codex umbra works when in your inventory and uses the casting animation from singleplayer DS, like others have mentioned.

I mentioned more shadow weapons earlier, so I guess I'm obligated to name those too.

Shadow spear: 5 twigs, 3 dark petals, 5 nightmare fuel. 150 uses. Same sanity drain as dark sword, same damage as a fresh hambat. Might be useful when you're out of living logs.

Shadow blowdart: 3 slurper pelts, 8 thulecite, 20 nightmare fuel. (Repaired pseudoscience station) Can only be used in your hand, deals 50 damage (25 bc his damage penalty) Infinite ammo but has a 3 second cooldown and has double the sanity drain of a dark sword. This would optimally be used as your hand weapon alongside your floating dark swords to draw aggro easily and get a few cheap hits in. You can't swap hand weapons during the cooldown.

Night helmet: 10 nightmare fuel, 2 living logs, 2 ropes. Night armor in helmet form.

This might be a tad overpowered, but of course, this is just a fun idea, not a serious suggestion. Also keep in mind fighting would be twice as expensive as far as weapons go, and again, holding 4 dark swords would make you cucco in no time, so the 2.5x DPS that comes with 5 weapons (taking 50% less weapon damage into account) might be at least a little justified, don't forget the 75 HP too.

[thesooz9000]

1 hour ago, Psychic Chicken said:

Here's my idea:

Shadow workers only start working when you examine a boulder, tree, stump, etc. and only destroy objects of that type. This would mean the diggers can now dig plants, and when you command your logger to chop evergreens, it won't chop Winter's Feast trees or birchnut trees. This applies to duelists, so if there's an enemy that would one shot your duelist, you can fight it on your own without your duelist drawing aggro and dying. You can click the "Stop Working" command on the codex umbra to bring them all back to their passive state.

Maxwell does 50% less damage with all weapons, BUT, he now has a few exclusive shadow weapons, and he can equip up to 4 shadow weapons (doesn't take your hand slot) making them float next to him. You go insane REALLY fast when doing so though.

All shadow puppets drain Maxwell's sanity when they're doing their job.

Codex umbra works when in your inventory and uses the casting animation from singleplayer DS, like others have mentioned.

I mentioned more shadow weapons earlier, so I guess I'm obligated to name those too.

Shadow spear: 5 twigs, 3 dark petals, 5 nightmare fuel. 150 uses. Same sanity drain as dark sword, same damage as a fresh hambat. Might be useful when you're out of living logs.

Shadow blowdart: 3 slurper pelts, 8 thulecite, 20 nightmare fuel. (Repaired pseudoscience station) Can only be used in your hand, deals 50 damage (25 bc his damage penalty) Infinite ammo but has a 3 second cooldown and has double the sanity drain of a dark sword. This would optimally be used as your hand weapon alongside your floating dark swords to draw aggro easily and get a few cheap hits in. You can't swap hand weapons during the cooldown.

Night helmet: 10 nightmare fuel, 2 living logs, 2 ropes. Night armor in helmet form.

This might be a tad overpowered, but of course, this is just a fun idea, not a serious suggestion. Also keep in mind fighting would be twice as expensive as far as weapons go, and again, holding 4 dark swords would make you cucco in no time, so the 2.5x DPS that comes with 5 weapons (taking 50% less weapon damage into account) might be at least a little justified, don't forget the 75 HP too.

i'd make the night helmet 90% and not 95% , and (715 durability? up for debate on this one) and your suggestion of 50% less weapon damage would make the only playstyle of fighting the holding multiple swords, you would need to hold 2 dark swords minimum to, other things i somewhat agree with, also rework minions