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maxwell rework ideas?


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All I can really say on the subject is that you guys (people playing the game as gamers) and Klei Dev Team (the people developing the story, lore & gameplay) need to pay EXTREMELY Close attention to detail, and really give each article of Klei Offical Artwork they’ve put out for the guy a Second Glancing Over before we end up with a half-Baked Rework that barely feels “Reworked” and is just another case of “Almost perfect as is” I will FOREVER be sour about the Wigfrid Rework, especially when the one character shown throwing spears in her Animated short can’t hurl spears.. but Wolfgang gets to Yeet Dumbells..

That hurts on levels that I’m sure all Wigfrid mains can feel me on.

Anyway- Let’s take a good extremely close look at one of the newer released Vignettes for Maxwell shall We?

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That is Maxwell WALKING while the Codex Umbra Floats in front of him and he is summoning from the book itself (indicated by the little swirls of shadow magic coming off the book and is surrounding everything you see in the image) Shadow Miners, Shadow Choppers, And Dark Swords all from the pages of this Floating book…

So yeah I’d say take your time, CONSIDER how you (Klei Entertainment) portray the guy, and make an actual FUN rework from that.

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Maybe his shadows could become more powerful depending on the time of day similar to how Abigail used to have that mechanic. And I really want the shadows to be able to mirror Max's speed, including walking cane and magi equipped. It's really bothersome to have to wait for them to catch up after walking across the map.

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A former Shadow King should not be burdened with the tedious task of picking up thousands of wood/etc. :wilsondisappointed:

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"Freedom suits me" is his motto after all! 

An unbreakable lazy forager with an increased radius would be EPIC and complement his shadow puppets gathering ability!

SHADOW LAZY FORAGER, inspired by black holes! :wilson_love: It saves TIME, the most precious resource! 

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The price could be the need to refuel with nightmare fuels or gems, sanity/hp/hunger loss, movement speed, ANYTHING to escape boring chores! :wilson_cry:

Thanks for your time reading.  :wickerbottomthanks:

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I think there's room for Maxwell to carve out his own niche separate from Wanda, whom by the way, does have a clear connection to shadow magic (it's the source of her time magic and strange and mostly bs lore) but imo she was just better suited for being designed solely around combat with her age gimmick, whereas Maxwell already has his niche being the best resource gatherer in the game. We also know in-canon Maxwell sorta fooled around with shadow magic and played God, but actually doesn't know that much or according to Wortox even how to use the codex properly.

Gameplay-wise Maxwell's frailty in combat is the drawback to his potentially infinite gathering skill and his mastery over sanity, having natural sanity regen that might cushion newer players struggling with sanity or give veterans full control over his max sanity for farming fuel. Having lackluster combat ability makes him rely on other player characters or allies and encourages playing carefully or cowardly like his character should. And for some reason him being a glass cannon too just rubs me the wrong way.

I'm not sure how to improve his gameplay, but I do remember a friend of mine who played Max just endlessly relegated themself to chopping the tree farms or mining underground because Max was just the best at it and they liked having a surplus of materials for the base's needs, tagging along for boss fights and humorously almost always being the one to fall first. 

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Sure, I'll toss another few ideas in the pile. Why not.

My Maxwell Wishlist (not organized in order of hypothetical priority):

1. Maxwell's shadow duelists should mirror the weapons and armor Maxwell has equipped. For example, holding a Morning Star would make the duelists wield one too and give off light and deal electric damage, or holding a Thul Club would make them move faster and spawn shadow tentacles. The damage should be mirrored too. The same goes for armor, so bramble husks would make them shoot spines when hit, or Night Armor would give them 95% damage reduction.

2. Obviously less sanity loss when using magic items is necessary after the addition of Wanda, but I don't like the idea of extra damage with the dark sword. Maxwell's thing in DST (not necessarily DSA) has always been the fragile ravager of biomes and attack damage buffs don't really fit that character niche. HOWEVER, I would love some kind of special interaction with night armor (better efficiency, no sanity drain, 99% protection to offset low hp???).

3. In addition to this AI improvements for the duelists are a necessity for this rework. I think probably the easiest improvement to make is to classify enemies into 2 categories (kite and tank) and then adapt the AI to target as is fit. For example, Duelists could kite a pigman, but at the same time could stand still and hit a singular spider or bee. This would probably take a lot of work, but I think the former king of the constant deserves it.

4. I want a way to control the shadow workers better. Currently they tend to end up cutting down things you don't want them to and mining things best left un-mined (ie. spilagmites). I think a good way to do this would be to allow the Codex Umbra to be used to toggle on and off the worker's (similar to Abi's flower) so that you can make them either follow you around idly or work.

Though that's all I really want to see from his rework, here are some fun features that I would like to see happen:

Spoiler

 

1. The shadow clones mimic the skin Maxwell is currently wearing (also a higher quality sprite for them).

2. Maxwell uses the book casting animation when making clones (not optional).

3. Maxwell can use Wanda's watches for a lesser effect. (Ex. Ageless Watch heals a small amount, Alarming Clock does its un-fueled damage but doesn't consume durability, Backtreck Watch gets a 2 day cooldown when used by Maxwell, etc.)

4. Maxwell could reduce his sanity cap to 0 by summoning more than the usual cap of clones (extra workers, but with risk!)

5. Maxwell automatically aggroes Greater Gestalts and more Gestalts spawn when at high enlightenment (flavor downside).

 

 

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I'd love to see him have some more Shadow spells, and more magic affinity. Some thoughts:

  • Magic items cost less sanity to use (-50%?)
  • Via the Umbra Codex, he can cast unique spells (costing sanity and or nightmare fuel, and they all have a bit of casting time - making your Shadow minions "decoy" potential useful):
    • Shadow Puppeteer - Can convert one enemy to momentarily fight on your side. Does not work on bosses. Max 1 target at a time. Expensive to use.
    • Shadow Grip - Stuns an enemy in place, making them unable to do anything. Lasts longer the smaller the target is. Does not work on bosses. Relatively cheap to use.
    • Shadow Lash - Creates a Charlie-esque hand to swipe at an enemy once, dealing heavy damage. Relatively cheap to use.
  • Shadow Minions are not specific summons, but are "all-purpose"; If you chop wood, they chop wood. If you dig, they dig. If you engage in combat or cast spells, they fight. And they would probably need some command to make them passive
    • Make some command buttons which are located over your equipment slots? Could be added for any Character with minions/summons. Example commands could be Passive/Defensive/Aggressive modes and Move here/Attack kitingly/Attack this tankingly or work on this target?
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7 hours ago, Atkvin said:

Gameplay-wise Maxwell's frailty in combat is the drawback to his potentially infinite gathering skill and his mastery over sanity, having natural sanity regen that might cushion newer players struggling with sanity or give veterans full control over his max sanity for farming fuel. Having lackluster combat ability makes him rely on other player characters or allies and encourages playing carefully or cowardly like his character should. And for some reason him being a glass cannon too just rubs me the wrong way.

gameplay-wise he was always suppose to be a glass cannon since DS. You unlocked him via adventure mode to have an """op""" character (a common thing in videogames, when you beat it you unlock the most powerful character) so he got shadows to work for him (fits his arrogance),shadows to deal damage (if they survive the fight he was the 2nd character with highest dps in DS), starting with dark swords plus being able to wear night armor

they can improve his fighting but that doesnt mean that they cant improve his other niches. Actually they should add more shadows since breaks his character having to till the ground or row by himself instead of using magic 

i love the idea of having a very fragile character that is good at everything

edit. also i dont get why people ask for the same shadow perk as old wanda when he could have somethingg cooler and more fitting like increased magic effect like x2 freezing effect from ice staffs, more damage from fire staff (or both with Klaus like AoE effect), more efficiency on night lights, etc. He already has sanity reg so having reduced sanity cost is kinda bland

 

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6 hours ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

edit. also i dont get why people ask for the same shadow perk as old wanda when he could have somethingg cooler and more fitting like increased magic effect like x2 freezing effect from ice staffs, more damage from fire staff (or both with Klaus like AoE effect), more efficiency on night lights, etc. He already has sanity reg so having reduced sanity cost is kinda bland

Because tbf, that perk is something that would fit him far more than Wanda.

They could probably do something around Shadow Weapons besides dmg though, like reduced durability consumption, regardless if it comes to DPS increase i would considerably prefer to have his Duelist work instead like the Forge Version, that way you dont have to deal with horrible AI that dies to in a single hit... 

Also, remove the crafting station thing... having to drop the book on the floor to craft anything is just annoying, just have it work like Wes's Pile O Ballons, so you only need to carry it with you to craft stuff, i would even argue remove the Tool Requirement and leave it at just be Nightmare Fuel. 

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18 hours ago, Dollmaker said:

Because tbf, that perk is something that would fit him far more than Wanda

why? in my opinion is the opposite. Just check DS lore, william even changed his personality because of the shadow influence while wanda is more stoic and has more control over them. How can you say that it fits more in maxwell when he is literally insane for playing for a while with shadows?

also,as i said, he can get a cooler shadow perk. less sanity drain from magic isnt the only shadow related perk avaraible plus he already has sanity regeneration because he was once the king of that wold and knows most of the things that you can find there

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4 hours ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

why? in my opinion is the opposite. Just check DS lore, william even changed his personality because of the shadow influence while wanda is more stoic and has more control over them. How can you say that it fits more in maxwell when he is literally insane for playing for a while with shadows?

also,as i said, he can get a cooler shadow perk. less sanity drain from magic isnt the only shadow related perk avaraible plus he already has sanity regeneration because he was once the king of that wold and knows most of the things that you can find there

Cause he manipulates shadows? thats kinda his whole thing. 

He even references this with the Shadow Manipulator

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1 hour ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

but affects his mind so why would it be "more fitting than for wanda"(?)

Cause manipulating shadows is his thing after all, in fact him doing that is what caused the game to happen in the first place. 

Wanda's case mostly refers to time manipulation, while Maxwell used it in god knows how many ways, and we already know recklessness is common for this man, on top of being an egomaniac... 

Could also point out how Maxwell is often depicted using a Dark Sword, or how in DS he even has one at the start. 

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23 minutes ago, Dollmaker said:

Cause manipulating shadows is his thing after all, in fact him doing that is what caused the game to happen in the first place. 

Wanda's case mostly refers to time manipulation, while Maxwell used it in god knows how many ways, and we already know recklessness is common for this man, on top of being an egomaniac... 

Could also point out how Maxwell is often depicted using a Dark Sword, or how in DS he even has one at the start. 

 

9 hours ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

why? in my opinion is the opposite. Just check DS lore, william even changed his personality because of the shadow influence while wanda is more stoic and has more control over them. How can you say that it fits more in maxwell when he is literally insane for playing for a while with shadows?

also,as i said, he can get a cooler shadow perk. less sanity drain from magic isnt the only shadow related perk avaraible plus he already has sanity regeneration because he was once the king of that wold and knows most of the things that you can find there

 

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4 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

 

 

I dunno why youre making a big deal out of this when we both agree he should get something else...

I simply believe this perk would have fitted him better than Wanda, doesnt mean i want this perk on him now that she already has it.

Like i mentioned, making his Duelist work like the Forge version would be preferable for DMG output.

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3 minutes ago, Dollmaker said:

I dunno why youre making a big deal out of this when we both agree he should get something else...

I simply believe this perk would have fitted him better than Wanda, doesnt mean i want this perk on him now that she already has it.

Like i mentioned, making his Duelist work like the Forge version would be preferable for DMG output.

dont get me wrong, im just saying that i think that i prefer to have another shadow perk than just "less sanity drain" when that is already a wanda perk (if he gets that perk might not get a cooler one) plus i dont see how it fits more him that wanda even when it fits in both (but in wanda the most) for what i argued

5 minutes ago, Dollmaker said:

Like i mentioned, making his Duelist work like the Forge version would be preferable for DMG output.

i would prefer micromanaging them to perform better than just a passive proc on atacks honestly

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33 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

i would prefer micromanaging them to perform better than just a passive proc on atacks honestly

Idk without being able to buff them like Abigail or at least give them some armor, i dont see them working at all, specially against bosses who often have AOE attacks. 

The "Shadow Barrage" is less of a headache in that department, specially for a character that already dies so easily compared to others, if you mess up even a little. 

The "Workers" should have actual way to control them though, having them agroo on everything around them, including decorative stuff is beyond annoying. 

But who knows, he works considerably different from the DS version already, wouldnt be surprising for them to try something crazy with him. 

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6 minutes ago, Dollmaker said:

Idk without being able to buff them like Abigail or at least give them some armor, i dont see them working at all, specially against bosses who often have AOE attacks. 

The "Shadow Barrage" is less of a headache in that department, specially for a character that already dies so easily compared to others, if you mess up even a little. 

The "Workers" should have actual way to control them though, having them agroo on everything around them, including decorative stuff is beyond annoying. 

But who knows, he works considerably different from the DS version already, wouldnt be surprising for them to try something crazy with him. 

What if his shadow barrage was his unique interaction with the dark sword (separate from the duelists entirely). If he gets so many successful hits on a single target with a dark sword without taking damage, a bunch of duelist spawn, perform a barrage, and then despawn. That way he could have the duelists as their own thing while still being a lot better with the dark sword than others, and getting to show off his shadow prowess at the same time

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