Forum's Opinion on the Wolfgang Refresh (haha I strike again!).

[ArubaroBeefalo]

17 minutes ago, abrocator said:

I’m starting to wonder if people who liked the rework are the same people who want to roleplay. 

[Cloakingsumo198]

I got problems with it, I can work around them for now but I still expect more but I'm running out of fumes here.

Spoiler

I'm just waiting for klei to make a decisive decision they been silent.

Once they do so I'm free......

 

[Mike23Ua]

Before this thread ends up locked I would just like to ask one question.

Does anyone actually remember Klei’s original promise for character reworks? Like word for word the paragraph they used? (If you don’t remember you can probably find it in their archived developer log somewhere.)

They promised us that they would make characters more unique, interesting & valuable to a TEAM but in their own rights.. 

And because of that- I will ONLY be disappointed in Wolfgang’s Rework when Maxwells Refresh comes and I can’t boost Wolfgang’s Mightiness to levels he can’t achieve on his own.

Im talking maybe even 3-4x Might, being able to rip entire fully grown trees out the ground and place them back down somewhere else like when Max boosts his muscles in the short, we see Wolfgang effortlessly Yeet a train car.

Im thinking on a whole other level here but bare with me for a moment.

What if.. when “Mighty” and Boosted by Maxwell- Wolfgang could effortlessly carry statues above his head in both hands (as we see him currently doing with giant potato in the games main menu animation until it is replaced with Year of the Catcoon tomorrow) And he can still wear a backpack/piggyback whilst effortlessly carrying this statue? But ONLY once he has been boosted to Abnormal levels of Might.

Klei has their reasons for the changes to Wolfgang.. and I for one am going to keep my faith in Klei that before all the updates are said and done: We will have some truly amazing ground breaking stuff.

[MondayNight]

2 hours ago, Pig Princess said:

.. it's outrageous because of the statement itself, not because of their avatars or presence of favourite character who is not Wolfgang...

Particular avatar doesn't even necessarily mean human behind it only plays particular character/likes to do particular activity.

But it would be unfair to spread assumption "of jealous characterX main" towards all people who have character-specific profile picture.

Because next step is invalidating arguements of opponent based of their avatar no matter the circumstances.

While indeed, in general, it bares no meaning or correlation the avatar and affinity towards a certain character or another, what am eyeing for personal entertainment are particular and recurrent cases. Cumulation of elements: as stated, same people excessively praising on repeated occasions Wolf's rework as a whole, while admitting to not playing him previously (or even afterwards), plus expressing mockery towards people rightly citing valid nerf points, also self-admitting on having other mains (depicted by avatar) in direct competition with Wolf's niche or vastly eclipsed in server pickings by him. Aka ulterior motives. Hypocrisy in the end. Bias. Yes, we can point at some people doing the same on the other lane, exaggerating "the ruination of Wolf" while admitting to not play him before and/or after rework. Wolfgang is still pretty much viable, reliable 2x Damage dealer on-the-go when obtaining Gembells (Purple Gems), a real punch, broadly eating less. But his place of swift out-of-gate rusher when Mighty-well-fed is gone, since tedious, mandatory, idle mechanics have been attached to his new Mighty Meter with only 1 method of rising said meter (with 2 variation, one completely static, the other semi-static). Anyway, enough with these collateral tidbits.

 

As suggestions go in regard to current Wolf's state from yours truly: doubling Dumb-bells durability, ability to lift them on-the-go, possibility to keep Might during fights (especially during long boss fights, since that would still be physical exercise) and actually rowing faster when Mighty (not solely initial acceleration) would make me, personally, put Wolf in my characters rotation again.

 

1 hour ago, Guille6785 said:

..I could sit here and type another essay about why the rework sucks while actually backing up my claims but I'm aware that the only end result of that is that one of the developers will keep making fun of me in a discord server so I'll pass..

For real?! Are devs making fun in public spaces of forums suggestions and/or of the people making them even if they're rigorously documented/supported by relevant arguments? (though would be tasteless from a developer position to ridicule any comment, no matter how outlandish it might be) If that's the case I consider my dwell around these forums reaching its untimely end and will excuse myself the f%ck out of here since would make it pointless to further interact. I knew there are slim chances bulk ideas to be even taken into consideration, but if all we are for devs is amusement, yeah, that puts a lid on it with a most "hit the road Jack!"

[mr. brj]

14 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

And because of that- I will ONLY be disappointed in Wolfgang’s Rework when Maxwells Refresh comes and I can’t boost Wolfgang’s Mightiness to levels he can’t achieve on his own.

Im talking maybe even 3-4x Might, being able to rip entire fully grown trees out the ground and place them back down somewhere else like when Max boosts his muscles in the short, we see Wolfgang effortlessly Yeet a train car.

This neither fixes Wolfgang's current issues nor has anything to do with Wolfgang's rework. Random perks from random sources don't matter in the end if those perks are locked behind a non-interactive mehanic that many consider to be tedious and/or boring.

Plus, as I and some others have stated many times, the new Wolfgang is already a superior character in the long run in terms of raw power. Although your idea sounds fun, Wolfgang really doesn't need it. He needs player interaction. His old mightiness had that interaction, and many found it boring/uninteresting (I still can't relate to those people, but I agree that the interaction could have been deeper). Now the sole interaction is with the gym, which is an immobile structure you ideally won't be using that much in the early game, and still, many find his new mightiness mechanics boring.

Therefore, the main issue has nothing to do with Wolfgang's perks, it has got to do with how he can access and maintain them. Just because a character is better in terms of raw power doesn't make that character's gameplay more fun. I believe we both agree that Wolfgang could be more fun if the developers gave him a little bit more love, but in order for this to be the case, we need to address those specific issues in these discussions and stay on topic.

I hope you don't mind the tone in my sentences, as I don't intend to offend you or anything. If I did, my deepest apologies. I actually appreciate your constant optimism even if I disagree with you. I do want to keep my faith in Klei regarding Wolfgang, but getting the silent treatment discourages me a lot. And frankly, your reply is an example for "going off-topic" I have mentioned in my previous post, and because of the PTSD I got from the rework, I can't avoid the paranoia that the developer team can potentially add this suggestion to their "make Wolfgang rework better" list, if they have any. So please, don't forget that stating what you like or what you don't like about the refresh is much more constructive in these discussions, even if you have said it a million times.

[Guille6785]

1 hour ago, x0-VERSUS-1y said:

For real?! Are devs making fun in public spaces of forums suggestions and/or of the people making them even if they're rigorously documented/supported by relevant arguments? (though would be tasteless from a developer position to ridicule any comment, no matter how outlandish it might be) If that's the case I consider my dwell around these forums reaching its untimely end and will excuse myself the f%ck out of here since would make it pointless to further interact. I knew there are slim chances bulk ideas to be even taken into consideration, but if all we are for devs is amusement, yeah, that puts a lid on it with a most "hit the road Jack!"

Spoiler

I'm pretty sure calling out names would break forum tos and get this thread locked immediately but yes I'm aware of at least 1 of the developers who's been actively making fun of the people who didn't like the rework (me primarily) and who I'm pretty sure has also taken part in a harassment campaign against me by some immature people on a discord server who try to make me and my friends look bad and falsely accuse me of doing and saying things I never did

another funny thing said developer did was dm me a pretty childish response then blocked me immediately afterwards so I couldn't respond lmao

I know I have a huge ego too but at least I'm not the one who's supposed to behave professionally lol

it's whatever now though, I really have no interest in the game anymore, these days I only hop on dst for a few minutes a day at most to talk with friends, but I guess I have nothing else to lose

 

[HowlVoid]

6 hours ago, Guille6785 said:

  Hide contents

I'm pretty sure calling out names would break forum tos and get this thread locked immediately but yes I'm aware of at least 1 of the developers who's been actively making fun of the people who didn't like the rework (me primarily) and who I'm pretty sure has also taken part in a harassment campaign against me by some immature people on a discord server who try to make me and my friends look bad and falsely accuse me of doing and saying things I never did

another funny thing said developer did was dm me a pretty childish response then blocked me immediately afterwards so I couldn't respond lmao

I know I have a huge ego too but at least I'm not the one who's supposed to behave professionally lol

it's whatever now though, I really have no interest in the game anymore, these days I only hop on dst for a few minutes a day at most to talk with friends, but I guess I have nothing else to lose

 

If you have nothing to lose I would 100% post everything they said to you.

Pretty sure I know who you're talking about and getting Klei to investigate may even benefit the game in the long run. 

This dev has been acting immaturely as of late and getting called out may re-adjust their ego. I think they are the driving force behind the nerf and that's why a lot of feedback is being dismissed. The way Klei splits up dev time with their developers (bulk of devs working on bigger projects/updates) I wouldn't be surprised if one dev was in charge of the refresh and why we have this mess.

[MondayNight]

3 hours ago, Guille6785 said:

...yes I'm aware of at least 1 of the developers who's been actively making fun of the people who didn't like the rework (me primarily) and who I'm pretty sure has also taken part in a harassment campaign against me by some immature people on a discord server who try to make me and my friends look bad and falsely accuse me of doing and saying things I never did

another funny thing said developer did was dm me a pretty childish response then blocked me immediately afterwards so I couldn't respond lmao

That's not only childish behavior from a developer of all people, but also extremely unprofessional. If dev in question did so from a KLei official account I'm curious, for the eyes of audiences (forums and social media alike) at large, what would KLei official policy be regarding such conduct. Am sure "behind close doors" people are people and probably talk in relation to commentators here, for example, using very harsh "gamer words"; yet doing so via public spaces... yeah, extremely unprofessional to say the least even if you or some hypothetical "culprit" was trolling them in some form or they felt it like that. Tales such as this, if true and no 2-sides of the argument - but only bitterness stemmed from too big of an Ego to take any form of criticism - make one realize time spent on these forums, interactions for theoretical betterment of the game - even if seldom considered - may truly be a monumental waste of people's leisure.

[Owlrust]

Ultimately Klei did what they thought was best for the character with respect for his aesthetic design and background, as well as for the sake of gameplay. Almost every option, idea, avenue, etc for Wolfgang was most likely discussed in full at various meetings with regard to community input (input from both sides of the argument and in-between that is to say) as well as with respect to their vision, and the conclusion was made final on many aspects as a result. Wolfgang was re-imagined to be the circus strongman enhanced by magic that he was always meant to be in their vision. Better or worse is, as always, subjective to the individual.

[Blunty_x]

So, what a split down the middle eh. At this point I feel this is trolling, damn near same poll as before the lock on last post. I believe we were saying it was down the middle but the extra question skewed the results. I wonder how it would be if it was just do you like it vs if you don't. Would the ones that voted idc vote or not? In which case would it be 50 50. Or skewed. 

Honestly I'm waiting for Klei to speak up, they've been awfully quiet and locked a thread already which speaks volumes imo. Eventually they sill have to just come out and say " we aren't changing him stfu already, or announce a tweak right? RIGHT!?

[Juny Pear]

I too love me a good cup of gossip mm-MM.

Some wild theories and hostility to spice it up.
Ah... delicious...

[Mike23Ua]

Is it safe to assume that if all Wolfgang related topics get locked that Klei is “happy with” where they have Wolfgang now & are moving on to whatever they have planned next?

I mean surely they could say “We have some things in mind that might happen in the future” or “his Rework is finalized & we’re not planning any additional changes” 

Right?

[Blunty_x]

14 hours ago, x0-VERSUS-1y said:

Make the poll public so we can see all the Wanda/WX/Wormwood/Wortox-avatar people voting on "Yes, I like very much the new Wolfgang rework (because it nerfed him and now my main can shine bright, hyuhyu!)"

I felt personally attacked lol, I voted no Obviously but still. Was Wolfgang main with a ton of Wortox sprinkled in there. I hang out with the weirdos from the swamp now. 

[Atkvin]

Let's not steer too offtopic discussing this, but from an optimistic and objective viewpoint I think Klei is just choosing to not publicly comment as they continue to take in data from different perspectives, waiting for the dust to settle right after this big change and contemplating how and when they will commit to doing so in a smart way.

Also, do we have any proof the thread was locked by a dev at all? I haven't been on the forums in a long time, but the author of the thread could have also locked it if they decided the discussion was getting heated and out of hand. From my memory the devs usually comment why they're locking before locking the thread for good.

And last of all, we should reserve judgment and gossip without any proof of these conversations. But I should hope the devs know to conduct themselves and each other in a civil way towards the community, especially when receiving valuable, constructive feedback to their changes from the people playing their game regardless of how they may personally feel in response. Souring the relationship because you don't like feedback that tells you how your work could be improved would be embarassingly immature.

[Yuuko]

1 hour ago, Blunty_x said:

So, what a split down the middle eh. At this point I feel this is trolling, damn near same poll as before the lock on last post. I believe we were saying it was down the middle but the extra question skewed the results. I wonder how it would be if it was just do you like it vs if you don't. Would the ones that voted idc vote or not? In which case would it be 50 50. Or skewed. 

Honestly I'm waiting for Klei to speak up, they've been awfully quiet and locked a thread already which speaks volumes imo. Eventually they sill have to just come out and say " we aren't changing him stfu already, or announce a tweak right? RIGHT!?

Definitely would have been smarter to change up the pole to
1) ABSOLUTELY SATISFIED DON'T TOUCH NEW WOLFGANG
2) Good, but needs something
3) Indifferent
4) Bad but not far off
5) ABSOLUTELY DISATISFIED BACK TO DRAWING BOARD

I bet we'd see most people clump in 2-4, but the binary pole results of yes/no make it appear there is more disagreement.  For instance - many people like @Ohan voted they like it, but still gave feedback that they feel it is lacking, and others don't like it with the same perspective.

14 hours ago, Gashzer said:

Wolfgang rework is great:

• Static 2x damage
• 1x hunger drain instead of 2-3x
• Tier 1 weather resist with mighty - stacks nicely with beefalo hat/eyebrella.
• Increased mining and chopping speed (1.5) perfect for mining marble trees!
• Piggy back/marble suit speed penality removed
• Increased kitability with marble suit allows you to kill dfly solo with 1 marble suit, 2 football helms and NO healing! (This is with me not even being that great at kiting alot of the times tbh)
• Fun enough mini game with gym
• The glorious gembell! Allows for 24/7 mightyness for 11days per bell only requiring 15secs of pumping out of a 8min dst day,  cheap enough to boot! (Kill dfly which is ez as wolfy, clockwork bishops or graves for purple gems)
• Wolfgang with shield of terror rivals wanda with alarming clock for killing basic mobs one hit (spiders,frogs, ice/fire hounds, 2hits regular hounds) shield refuelable like clock!
• Does all this without sacrificing your big 200hp safety net of a health bar unlike wanda.
• Earlier access to damage boost with all weapons unlike wanda who is grindy early game in acquiring her alarming clock especially on public servers where you may be fighting other players for resources.

All in all i prefer wolfgang as my boss killer character and not wanda, especially on public servers. 

The loss of speed boost is a price I'm happy to pay for all the quality of life fixes wolfgang got!

Again, Great Job Klei!!

 

idk man... like... 
weather resist = If you over heat to 69 degrees, and combine his bonus resist with beefalo hat or eyebrella, you're gaining 2 extra minutes before freezing.  The difference is ~12 minutes mighty Wolfgang in beefalo hat vs ~10 minutes nearly everyone else.
Mining / choping = same as fighting = You have an overhead (time spent working out) you must overcome to make the gains worth it.  Wolfgang loses hard here early game when he is using sub-gembells or is setting up gyms.  Even using them it takes about a minute to gain from 0-100 mighty.  You'll need to chop 18 fully grown trees, mine 60 stones, or kill 120 hounds to match the minute you spent gaining mighty.  Some might say "it only takes 15 seconds to top off mighty" but that doesn't really change this.  You just have to consistently average this work pace over 4 days constantly or you're still losing.
Movement via piggyback / marble armor = ironically you had all of the capability to use this in old Wolfgang, and it was actually better.  You would gain 20-25% ms, and lose 20% on piggyback.  The capability here was literally nerfed but ok lol  And how much is this 20% ms penalty really?  Again, we compare favorably that you spend 15 seconds a day topping up mighty, you'll have to spend about 25% of the day walking to make up this time before you're even ahead of literally anyone else wearing a piggyback.  Not to mention anyone forgoing 4 inventory slots or wearing a krampus sack straight beats you, and by more the longer you walk as you must continually stop to pump again...
Fun minigame - very subjective opinion, the game is way too slow to keep my interest.
The glorious Gembell - refer to WX and gears lol  Sometimes you get lucky and have some purple gems to spare early game.  Sometimes you don't.  I'd rather give Wanda a purple gem for t2 magic we can all use than watch a Wolfgang munch through a purple gem to stay mighty for half a season...  Unless you rush ruins you won't have a decent supply of these early.

Early access damage award goes to either Wendy or Wigfrid 100%.  Wendy b/c abigail, Wigfrid because she doesn't have to dump extra cut stone, boards, ropes, more stones, purple gems, etc just to get her boost.  Her 25% constant damage boost will out-speed Woflgang on dfly rush even using favorable tactics for him like bypassing chopping / mining for knocking down pig houses.
 

Spoiler

 

 

[lv746591263]

Do you think it's fun to play small games every day? It's really boring and boring, and you have to calculate your state all the time, which is not proportional to the actual income

[MondayNight]

1 hour ago, Blunty_x said:

Honestly I'm waiting for Klei to speak up, they've been awfully quiet and locked a thread already which speaks volumes imo. Eventually they sill have to just come out and say " we aren't changing him stfu already, or announce a tweak right? RIGHT!?

KLei probably just waits for thread do die in the oblivion of forgetfulness or for us to heavily off-topic/ad hominem and have a reason to close it. "Out of sight, out of mind". Factoring Guille's story, most-likely KLei doesn't care about what a handful of forumites think, Wolf's current iterations is here to stay.

 

1 hour ago, Blunty_x said:

I felt personally attacked lol, I voted no Obviously but still. Was Wolfgang main with a ton of Wortox sprinkled in there. I hang out with the weirdos from the swamp now. 

Eh, don't mind it too much, purely some observation for personal meme-entertainment in the heat of moment. By the end doesn't amount to nothing since 10 recurring people arguing over the "good/bad" appreciation-fence of a character rework will yield 0 concrete re-rebalance results.

 

54 minutes ago, Atkvin said:

Also, do we have any proof the thread was locked by a dev at all?

No, but from what I know, regular forumites can only hide their topics, not close them - moderators do that.

 

40 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

idk man... like...

In a quite funny way, Gashzer "review" sounds like one made by some corporate employee at the hastily behalf of their boss "Sammy my man, come-come, I need you to do ASAP a positive review for our latest product, The TeethCrumblyPuller 5000. Hurry, time flies and you doing nothing costs me money I'll deduct from your salary!". Sam at the keyboard: "Best product ever from its line, pulls efficiently teeth big and small, makes good grind, compact and ergonomic, I recommend it on Twatter, 5/5 stars, even my Grandma and her cat love it, totally worth the cost! Buy it now for your Mother-in-law!"

[hhh2]

11 hours ago, Duck986 said:

because they hate him.

I think it's just because 1 character out of what is it now 12? really isn't that big of a deal. Yeah wolfgang is somehow even more boring to play and now has a clunky meter, but some people find that tolerable, and if you don't just play new improved wolfgang: Wanda. (after buying her from the shop )

[00petar00]

Most of us have said our piece and my thoughts are still the same, i think that the rework is not intuitive and it is bad game design to make you watch your character do animations and stop you from interacting with the game.

Since rework how many threads and same people have said the same thing in all of them, if you have something new to add maybe there should be one official thread for Wolfgang rework and that's it.

Overall i think that rework could be salvaged if Wolfgang was able to gain mightiness by walking while using dumbbell at same time and using piggyback and running around should stop him from losing mightiness as well. Gym would need some rework though.

Also its kind of annoying to see how SOME Wolfgang mains want Wanda nerfed but also want their character buffed too, i've noticed a couple of people on the forums with these thoughts, there's a lot of players that just want their character to be the best instead of just hoping that all the characters are somewhat powerful in their role which is what we should all hope for.

For people wondering, Wanda is one of my two mains, i enjoy playing strong characters and don't have anything to hide as you can tell by my  Wickerbottom avatar.

[Blunty_x]

41 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

Definitely would have been smarter to change up the pole to
1) ABSOLUTELY SATISFIED DON'T TOUCH NEW WOLFGANG
2) Good, but needs something
3) Indifferent
4) Bad but not far off
5) ABSOLUTELY DISATISFIED BACK TO DRAWING BOARD

Totally agree on everything. I was gobsmacked when people touted the Marble suit and piggy back as viable..when it was back then aswell and even more so..yet no one decided to use it. I tried but then realized you have to be mighty to keep normal speed, that was a big rip. 

People say this is a good Rework. I see it as a nice appetizer (2xdmg). Then you get to the main dish and it's basically a large turd (gym, dumbells, speed boost delete) with a bunch of stuff from the dollar store thrown on top (mining, chopping, rowing, weather resist). To try and hide the fact it's a giant turd lol.

Idk man, I just gave Wolfgang up.. his "new" stuff is just boring AF too me. I can see how a noob would love it, pump iron, get big, run around, get small die leave server. 

[Cloakingsumo198]

30 minutes ago, x0-VERSUS-1y said:

By the end doesn't amount to nothing since 10 recurring people arguing over the "good/bad" appreciation-fence of a character rework will yield 0 concrete re-rebalance results

I can't stop..... not yet.

There's all the voices that were squandered inside the forgotten beta threads hidden from the "General" eye.

Can't let them be all for nothing, all the new accounts, and silent voters.

Spoiler

10 people is no exaggeration lol

 

[lv746591263]

Do you know where the real contradiction lies? It is Wolfgang who needs to do some extra tedious work to maintain his characteristic advantage. What are the characteristics and advantages of other roles? Even if they need to do extra work, they don't have to do troublesome things every day. Remember, cumbersome is the most fundamental reason for people's irritability. As for speed, it's actually very unpleasant, but it won't be so difficult for people to accept

12 minutes ago, lv746591263 said:

你知道真正的矛盾在哪里吗？沃尔夫冈需要做一些额外乏味的工作才能保持自己的特色优势。其他角色有什么特点和优势？即使他们需要做额外的工作，他们也不必每天都做麻烦的事情。记住，累赘是人烦躁的最根本原因。至于速度，其实是很不爽的，不过不会让人很难接受

The cumbersome feeling is like grass lizard, or plant disease in the past, which is particularly disgusting

13 minutes ago, lv746591263 said:

你知道真正的矛盾在哪里吗？沃尔夫冈需要做一些额外乏味的工作才能保持自己的特色优势。其他角色有什么特点和优势？即使他们需要做额外的工作，他们也不必每天都做麻烦的事情。记住，累赘是人烦躁的最根本原因。至于速度，其实是很不爽的，不过不会让人很难接受

那种累赘的感觉就像是草蜥，或者是过去的植物病害，特别恶心

The translation software may not be right. The words I want to express are not extreme

[Yuuko]

1 hour ago, x0-VERSUS-1y said:

In a quite funny way, Gashzer "review" sounds like one made by some corporate employee at the hastily behalf of their boss "Sammy my man, come-come, I need you to do ASAP a positive review for our latest product, The TeethCrumblyPuller 5000. Hurry, time flies and you doing nothing costs me money I'll deduct from your salary!". Sam at the keyboard: "Best product ever from its line, pulls efficiently teeth big and small, makes good grind, compact and ergonomic, I recommend it on Twatter, 5/5 stars, even my Grandma and her cat love it, totally worth the cost! Buy it now for your Mother-in-law!"

tbh - I felt the post was a troll, faking enthusiasm for an obviously flawed kit...  but their name wasn't @Cloakingsumo198 so I decided to respond lol

[. . .]

i did not like the wolfgang refresh, they shouldn't have nerfed him and shouldn't have put some dumb minigame mechanic for him.

he was great the way he used to be and only needed some addition cool mechanic like wigfrid got

[SecretPizzaMan]

My opinion of the Wolfgang rework has changed mostly after seeing my brothers reaction to the rework, he like it at the start but he started getting more and more and more bored, btw he only plays Wigfrid/Wendy and most of the time Wolfgang, but after the rework he has almost completely stopped playing Wolfgang. I also played myself and Wolfgang never appealed to me in the first place, but somehow he became more boring then before. He might be "better" but he most certainly isn't fun, and isn't fun what this game is about. No what all games are about or has this been forgotten? I think it's the best way to sum it all up, Fun wasn't prioritized.