Forum's Opinion on the Wolfgang Refresh (haha I strike again!).

[Yuuko]

24 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Now here's my issue yea they don't  freak out at night but why does that even matter if their not traveling with you at that point you may as well just chop at daytime with pigs and same goes for combat what good does their combat ability really do you if you avoid keeping them around for fear of accident losing them. I personally can't see merms as a worthy upgrade to pigs if I'm only using them near their homes atleast in my opinion it defeats the purpose of them not sleeping I mean at that point why not just use more pigs to compensate their work speed since meat is much more readily available too. Again I could be wrong but I feel like most people go into Wurt expecting to use her merms as helpers on her travels not as slightly better worker pigs at base.

Most times I've tried to use pigs to chop they get distracted by spiders, die to tree guards, or day time just isn't very long and they don't put in a decent day's work.  Mid summer's days are longer, but they don't like working in caves either lol.  I really appreciate that merms can chop through the night, and survive fights better.  It means I actually get to clear a forest of logs rather than clearing a handful and losing them all to dusk fright or fights.

Obviously this wears off once you can port bearger around to clear trees with his charge - but this really helps me get a base going early.  Wurt and Woodie are the only characters I play who I bother getting logs with because they're much better at it.  With anyone else I chop enough to build things I need, and all my stuff stays on the ground lol

[Theukon-dos]

On 2/3/2022 at 8:32 PM, Owlrus said:

Geez, I wish Warly and Winona got this much demand to be tweaked; poor things are just swap characters now. Hopefully with the upcoming patch, this whole Wolfgang business can finally be put to rest.

People have been complaining about Winona and Walter a good bit too. Albeit not as... agressively, as Wolfgang.

Hell, I've complained about them a good bit myself.

23 hours ago, HowlVoid said:

So I guess we party guys?????

Wolfgang is getting another look over!

People said it was impossible but we did it!

"Don't let your dreams just be dreams"

-Shea Lebuff (Wolfgang)

Source?

[maradyne]

44 minutes ago, Theukon-dos said:

Source?

Stuff's getting burried here pretty quick, heh.

 

On 2/3/2022 at 6:34 PM, JoeW said:

We've had a few meetings and have decided that we're definitely going to address some of your concerns. How we're going to address them and when is still being discussed. But - I wanted let you all know. 

[snip]

We'll let you know more details when we have them. 

 

[Tychos]

I'd just like to hop in and add my opinion on it, though it's likely not needed since more people seem to like it rather than not.

 

Wolfgang changed the entire game for me. I started this game a couple years ago with my ex (Wendy player) and I was Maxwell. Never worried about sanity, but combat was difficult so why not try the strongman? Absolutely failed to get enough food to matter, that's why. My sister plays Wigfrid and needs meat, so that's most of the substantial dishes saved for her.

 I tried the following with these results: WX (Gear greed =  Dead) Webber (Spiders and Abigail don't get along) Walter (Two people scared to fight doesn't go well) and Wanda (Far too complicated for me to use properly)

 

Last month I was playing with my current girlfriend (Also a Wendy only player, I apparently have a type) and we wanted to kill Klaus. I was Webber and it went terribly. Spiders and Abigail just do not go well. I went to R and asked for some advice and got told by someone to try new Wolfgang with some instructions on how it works (Boss statues to get them gains, gembell to keep stud status high when away from it.) And I absolutely demolished Klaus, his Krampus squad and the spider queen at once. I was blown away having a character that can actually take care of business! I was able to properly protect my ghost having girlfriend, I didn't need a bodyguard the entire time and I didn't need to munch and crunch all the gears. I just needed to work out! It changed our game so entirely that my girlfriend actually got me a purple (3kg?) dumbbell. It's so sweet.

 

However at just after 400 days, I went back to WX. Caves aren't a great place for me as him. Sanity problems, I try to fight instead of run which usually ends up poorly and his form changing happens at the WORST of times! But he did manage to get 13 gears and fix an ancient station, so the temptation of being an immortal robot took over. However even now when a giant comes or we pass a Klaus sack, my girlfriend asks if I'm gonna switch back to Wolfgang so we can fight it. I'm really happy about the rework and any small annoyances I had about it are drastically outweighed by the fun I had.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

7 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

Now here's my issue yea they don't  freak out at night but why does that even matter if their not traveling with you at that point you may as well just chop at daytime with pigs and same goes for combat what good does their combat ability really do you if you avoid keeping them around for fear of accident losing them. I personally can't see merms as a worthy upgrade to pigs if I'm only using them near their homes atleast in my opinion it defeats the purpose of them not sleeping I mean at that point why not just use more pigs to compensate their work speed since meat is much more readily available too. Again I could be wrong but I feel like most people go into Wurt expecting to use her merms as helpers on her travels not as slightly better worker pigs at base

you cant compare having workers for few minutes to 24/7 workers. With pigs a hound wave come or a treeguard spawn at day and your chopping is ruined because you need to wait for many minutes until they will help you again.

why do you say they dont follow you? followes teleport if you overrun them and to prevent their "not coming back home" bug you can simply kill them which doesn't take that much since they will help you to kill each other

[Duck986]

bumping this thread until Klei releases at least some of Wolfgang rework fixes, day 1

[HowlVoid]

9 hours ago, Duck986 said:

bumping this thread until Klei releases at least some of Wolfgang rework fixes, day 1

Putting in the lord's work I see, good. We'll hold Klei to this one, lol.

[Toroic]

On 2/5/2022 at 4:15 AM, Tychos said:

I'd just like to hop in and add my opinion on it, though it's likely not needed since more people seem to like it rather than not.

 

Wolfgang changed the entire game for me. I started this game a couple years ago with my ex (Wendy player) and I was Maxwell. Never worried about sanity, but combat was difficult so why not try the strongman? Absolutely failed to get enough food to matter, that's why. My sister plays Wigfrid and needs meat, so that's most of the substantial dishes saved for her.

 I tried the following with these results: WX (Gear greed =  Dead) Webber (Spiders and Abigail don't get along) Walter (Two people scared to fight doesn't go well) and Wanda (Far too complicated for me to use properly)

 

Last month I was playing with my current girlfriend (Also a Wendy only player, I apparently have a type) and we wanted to kill Klaus. I was Webber and it went terribly. Spiders and Abigail just do not go well. I went to R and asked for some advice and got told by someone to try new Wolfgang with some instructions on how it works (Boss statues to get them gains, gembell to keep stud status high when away from it.) And I absolutely demolished Klaus, his Krampus squad and the spider queen at once. I was blown away having a character that can actually take care of business! I was able to properly protect my ghost having girlfriend, I didn't need a bodyguard the entire time and I didn't need to munch and crunch all the gears. I just needed to work out! It changed our game so entirely that my girlfriend actually got me a purple (3kg?) dumbbell. It's so sweet.

 

However at just after 400 days, I went back to WX. Caves aren't a great place for me as him. Sanity problems, I try to fight instead of run which usually ends up poorly and his form changing happens at the WORST of times! But he did manage to get 13 gears and fix an ancient station, so the temptation of being an immortal robot took over. However even now when a giant comes or we pass a Klaus sack, my girlfriend asks if I'm gonna switch back to Wolfgang so we can fight it. I'm really happy about the rework and any small annoyances I had about it are drastically outweighed by the fun I had.

Wolfgang in his current form is not mechanically weak, but having to work out breaks the flow of gameplay in a way that is both annoying and unnecessary.

As you discovered, gembell works pretty well to maintain mighty away from the gym.  Problem is, the other dumbells don’t have a place and getting gembell early either requires some rng from graves or killing dfly early (and that fight can be long enough you need a gym or dumbell during it).

It could absolutely be tweaked to have better flow.

[Waynel]

That thing is still going on ? Actually that's no surprise to me since Wolfgang didn't get any meaningful new upside "in compensation" for what was taken away from him (mainly, speed boost and getting mighty via food consumption).

When you tank df behind a wall with a marble suit, extra movement speed doesn't matter. And even if you consider the typical bq fight, YOU CAN SWITCH TO LOG SUIT/MAGILUMINESCENCE when you're about to run.

As for moving lunar/shadow pieces, you're still gonna use beefalo for almost every world.

 

So ye, a bummer when you compare his "refresh" to say, a Wigfrid Wendy or even Webber refresh (which i liked).

 

Now it's just, grind for those additional purple gems/cut stones and get nothin in return (compared to what you previously had).

 

 

 

Wolfgang refresh itching terribly.

[Tychos]

11 hours ago, Toros said:

Wolfgang in his current form is not mechanically weak, but having to work out breaks the flow of gameplay in a way that is both annoying and unnecessary.

As you discovered, gembell works pretty well to maintain mighty away from the gym.  Problem is, the other dumbells don’t have a place and getting gembell early either requires some rng from graves or killing dfly early (and that fight can be long enough you need a gym or dumbell during it).

It could absolutely be tweaked to have better flow.

I sort of disagree that it breaks the flow; I see it as another meter to maintain like sanity, health or hunger that just makes it part of Wolfgang's unique core gameplay loop. Like when my girlfriend is waiting for Abigail's health or I'm Webber and needing to collect spiders again. I'm alright with having to put some effort into going Mighty specifically to do big boy damage.

 

The problem I have is that I don't always want to be Mighty because I'm not always fighting, but I still get penalized for it because his Wimpy for is basically Wes. Some ways to maintain the might meter better, such as the great ideas to make mining/chopping build it and maybe fighting if that doesn't make him too similar to Wig. My personal choice is to stop or at least slow his drain when wearing marble armor or a pig pack because he IS still working his muscles by doing that. Technically. Or... Something.

 

But while I disagree with that, I agree with your other point and will add another to it: Boss statues. When I switched to him, I already had a stockpile of colored gems from hound waves and boss statues to make. I never even had to fiddle with the other dumbbells (gold seems okay for upkeep though stone seems as useless as Walter's pebbles.)  And the gym without statues is tedious and not really worth it. Starting as Wolf would be a real uphill battle and I assume I'd basically be Wes with glorious facial hair for a while before I get the resources necessary to keep a decent amount of Might.

[Jwave]

I had to create an account just to say.. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

i stopped playing for months and now that i have time to play i get this terrifying wolf rework. I played dont starve since beta, im a huge fan and i consider this one of the best survival game ever created. But this hits so hard...the best gaming experience of my life was probably the wolf rushes and challenges solo or with friends. I loved the mechanics and concept of old wolf and i spent like 1k+ hours on it; it allowed me to actually learn the game and enjoy it. I know its just a childish rant, but i am really disappointed and it will take time to heal this sense of bitterness that im feeling right now. I dont have time to kite a boss for 40 mins in a solo world, and i dont get the in-game logic about the gym thing.  I also spent lot of money on skins basically because i wanted to support the game i love...but now i dont know anymore.

See ya all in pub servers..i will have to play wendy i guess.

[Toroic]

9 hours ago, Tychos said:

I sort of disagree that it breaks the flow; I see it as another meter to maintain like sanity, health or hunger that just makes it part of Wolfgang's unique core gameplay loop. Like when my girlfriend is waiting for Abigail's health or I'm Webber and needing to collect spiders again. I'm alright with having to put some effort into going Mighty specifically to do big boy damage.

 

The problem I have is that I don't always want to be Mighty because I'm not always fighting, but I still get penalized for it because his Wimpy for is basically Wes. Some ways to maintain the might meter better, such as the great ideas to make mining/chopping build it and maybe fighting if that doesn't make him too similar to Wig. My personal choice is to stop or at least slow his drain when wearing marble armor or a pig pack because he IS still working his muscles by doing that. Technically. Or... Something.

 

But while I disagree with that, I agree with your other point and will add another to it: Boss statues. When I switched to him, I already had a stockpile of colored gems from hound waves and boss statues to make. I never even had to fiddle with the other dumbbells (gold seems okay for upkeep though stone seems as useless as Walter's pebbles.)  And the gym without statues is tedious and not really worth it. Starting as Wolf would be a real uphill battle and I assume I'd basically be Wes with glorious facial hair for a while before I get the resources necessary to keep a decent amount of Might.

Gold dumbbell gives the same mount of might as stone when mighty: 0.33.  Which means a gold dumbbell is 1/6 as effective as a gembell as maintaining mighty.

[abrocator]

11 hours ago, Tychos said:

But while I disagree with that, I agree with your other point and will add another to it: Boss statues. When I switched to him, I already had a stockpile of colored gems from hound waves and boss statues to make. I never even had to fiddle with the other dumbbells (gold seems okay for upkeep though stone seems as useless as Walter's pebbles.)  And the gym without statues is tedious and not really worth it. Starting as Wolf would be a real uphill battle and I assume I'd basically be Wes with glorious facial hair for a while before I get the resources necessary to keep a decent amount of Might.

You’re in effect saying that Wolfgang is good in New Game+ mode but hard to get started with in a new game.

Wolfgang is still a powerful character.  I’ll probably switch to him in order to kill FW.  But his gameplay is still lackluster.

[Yuuko]

58 minutes ago, abrocator said:

You’re in effect saying that Wolfgang is good in New Game+ mode but hard to get started with in a new game.

I wonder if that is part of the split on opinions.  Whether someone actually starts Wolfgang vs swaps to him, and their experience level with ramping up a game.

I pretty much play the first 200~ish days on loop, rarely playing more then that before resetting.  I'm huge on early game efficiency, once I have time to pass some days without a rush I lose interest lol  For me it matters a lot that I have to build extra structures, or stop and waste time especially in the first seasons which are 100% rush.  I've replayed Warly 1st autumn about a dozen times these last few weeks picking out what priority I need to do things at to get the most out of my time.  Same with Wolfgang rework.  None of these games really went passed 2nd autumn b/c at that point things get a lot more casual.

[Tychos]

3 hours ago, abrocator said:

You’re in effect saying that Wolfgang is good in New Game+ mode but hard to get started with in a new game.

Wolfgang is still a powerful character.  I’ll probably switch to him in order to kill FW.  But his gameplay is still lackluster.

Yeah, he's still not new player friendly. He also has no real benefit without his mighty form, but disadvantages still.

Wendy still has some form of Sanity help without Abigal (barely)

Webber still has his beard and ability to eat monster meat without his spiders

Maxwell still has amazing sanity control without his puppets

Wigfrid has... Too much.

WX has his ability to eat stale food or overcharge without his gears

Walter still has his slingshot and tents without woby, or woby without his slingshot

 

Wolfgang has... I guess high starting stats? But worse sanity control and a Wes form if you can't maintain might. I'm still mediocre at best and I wouldn't recommend most people start with him, but I do like him after it's all set up!

[Cheggf]

4 hours ago, Shosuko said:

I wonder if that is part of the split on opinions.  Whether someone actually starts Wolfgang vs swaps to him, and their experience level with ramping up a game

Whether someone starts as Wolfgang or swaps to him, whether someone played Wolfgang before the rework or not, whether someone is super new and has no idea what they're doing (AFKing is boring & weak but easier than finding food if they're struggling to support 1x drain), whether someone actually likes the rework or is just lying because they hate Wolfgang for some strange reason. Lots of different reasons people could like the rework.