Wanda and Celestial Portal

[Zeklo]

59 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

This is very debatable

There's a very specific reason expensive was in quotes, but regardless I don't think there's much of a debate here.

• Wendy. Most 'expensive' component... Mourning Glory I guess?
• Webber. Papyrus I guess?
• Willow. Gold.
• Wicker. Papyrus, literally all she gets.
• Maxwell. Nightmare Fuel.
• Warly. Gold.
• Wigfrid. Gold.
• Walter.  Mosquito Sacs I guess?

In terms of material value, Thulecite [Fragments] easily surpasses any and all of these. The only maybe argument is Webber starting with a Spider Den which takes a fair chunk of materials to craft—mainly the papyrus since the rest are easy to amass with his perks but:

In terms of 'acquiring difficulty' Thulecite might be as easy to get as gold for experienced players, but it's basically a holy relic to—dunno if I should call them 'average' players but the sizeable chunk of the player-base. Ultimately I really don't think those kinds of people should be playing Wanda in the first place, so I digress.

31 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

So here is the thing - Imagine if you will, Willow.

If you typed all this up because of my first statement then read above.

I don't really think Beard Hair is comparable to Thulecite, but at the end of the day I don't really have any strong opinions on Wanda's spawning gear to begin with. My main qualm is and will always be Pick & Swap characters—and Wanda isn't one of those so I'm not too bothered.

[Mike23Ua]

Your forgetting that Webber’s rework now lets him use a razor to trim down the size of spider dens OR Apply silk to them to upgrade their tiers faster…

Webber is officially off the list of having ANYTHING be hard to obtain for him (unless you maybe want to debate his Switcher Doodle crafting Recipes)

Wigfrids rework also introduced a slew of odd ingredients she needs for her song scrolls and “Gold” is easy to amass in large bulk by just going to pig king village and murdering everything in sight giving the skins back to the king for him to shower you in gifts for killing his entire village out. Why?? I haven’t a clue: #GameLogic.

Thelucite required in Wanda’s crafts is without a doubt the hardest of all resources to obtain- But.. she also spawns with one clock already pre-built and 3 additional parts to make other clocks: So it balances out well I guess.

Until you use the Celestial Portal to easily farm clocks and parts.

[GelatinousCube]

How about you just can't change to the character you are already playing? 

Like you'd have to swap from Wanda to someone else and then swap back so it at least costs you two idols to get a second set of starting resources?

It doesn't really make sense logically or lore wise that you can use an idol to "swap" from the same character back to that same character, like what?

[Yuuko]

1 hour ago, Zeklo said:

but:

In terms of 'acquiring difficulty' Thulecite might be as easy to get as gold for experienced players, but it's basically a holy relic to—dunno if I should call them 'average' players but the sizeable chunk of the player-base. Ultimately I really don't think those kinds of people should be playing Wanda in the first place, so I digress.

Walking to the archives is as dangerous as exploring the dfly desert, or collecting reeds in a swamp.  NO ONE is so bad they can't walk to this without being an absolute noob who wouldn't even know to exploit the celestial portal.  Maybe people don't know they can do this, so they think thulecite is some holy relic that is expensive, and maybe they think they're being smart building the celestial portal because they're afraid of hunting a few thulecite...  That's opinion.  That doesn't mean the CP is broken, or exploited.  It just means these ppl still have a few things to learn about the game.  What is fact is that thulecite is so easy to get, Wanda isn't spawning with much more than anyone else and having just 2-3 more time pieces than she starts with is plenty.  A chest full from "exploiting" the CP is more a waste of your own time more than an exploit...  Duping rock statues would be more valuable.

[Mysterious box]

1 hour ago, Zeklo said:

In terms of 'acquiring difficulty' Thulecite might be as easy to get as gold for experienced players, but it's basically a holy relic to—dunno if I should call them 'average' players but the sizeable chunk of the player-base. Ultimately I really don't think those kinds of people should be playing Wanda in the first place, so I digress.

This doesn't hold water a large amount of players regularly visit caves and archives in the player base legit the only people who don't visit them are those who don't know they exist or fear caves which is a much smaller number than you'd think combined with the fact Wanda is surprisingly a good pick for a casual player. You don't need experience to visit the archives you simply need know they exist and it's something that's becoming more and more public knowledge the longer Wanda is out for obvious reasons. Rather what particular reason is there that you seem to think the average player can't access the archives. 

[Zeklo]

Ya'll keep talking to the wrong person.

I made two statements: 

• Thulecite is harder to get and more valuable than Papyrus or Gold (other character's starting mat 'price').
• Pick and Swap Characters are more of an issue than Character Starter Items.

Bottom line is: I have no issue with Wanda's starting gear or how she works with the Celestial Portal.

You're at least rebutalling the first point. Which wasn't even intended to be a discussion starter in the first place. Didn't really think that was a really controversial take. Is saying the Caves are more difficult than the Surface not something we can do anymore?

If we disagree on such fundamentals then there's nothing more to be said. I didn't even want to get dragged into this whole deal, because I literally have no problem with Wanda and the Celestial Portal. I was just answering someone's question on where the disparity in opinion was originating.

[Yuuko]

9 minutes ago, Zeklo said:

Ya'll keep talking to the wrong person.

I made two statements: 

• Thulecite is harder to get and more valuable than Papyrus or Gold (other character's starting mat 'price').
• Pick and Swap Characters are more of an issue than Character Starter Items.

Bottom line is: I have no issue with Wanda's starting gear or how she works with the Celestial Portal.

You're at least rebutalling the first point. Which wasn't even intended to be a discussion starter in the first place. Didn't really think that was a really controversial take. Is saying the Caves are more difficult than the Surface not something we can do anymore?

If we disagree on such fundamentals then there's nothing more to be said. I didn't even want to get dragged into this whole deal, because I literally have no problem with Wanda and the Celestial Portal. I was just answering someone's question on where the disparity in opinion was originating.

Thulecite pieces, not even whole thulecite.  Its very easy to get.  No more difficult than gathering reeds from a swamp.  If you don't carry meat on you there are literally zero aggressive monsters between you and thulecite.  So no, its not more valuable than papyrus.  If you think it is, then you're not familiar with how easy it is to get thulecite.  Maybe you haven't played Wanda, and don't know how easy it is to get her clocks, and how useless time pieces are beyond her basic kit.  Go try that.

pick and swap is exactly what the celestial portal is for.  If you don't like it, don't do it.  That has nothing to do with changing the game.  Some people prefer to play a single character, in a solo world, limiting themselves to their own character's perks.  That is one way to play.  Once you play multiplayer, where you're already mixing character perks, what does it matter if Winona only visits you for a short time to spam craft catapults vs you swapping to her and back?  You're going to play who you want to play either way, and since its multiplayer someone could always join as anyone to help out.  You think this is a problem because you think you are skilled in playing without it.  Same as people make walls for dfly out to be some egregious sin against "the intent" of the game.  You don't want to build a wall, don't build a wall.  No one is forcing you to do it.

[Zeklo]

3 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

Thulecite pieces, not even whole thulecite.  Its very easy to get.  No more difficult than gathering reeds from a swamp.  If you don't carry meat on you there are literally zero aggressive monsters between you and thulecite.  So no, its not more valuable than papyrus.  If you think it is, then you're not familiar with how easy it is to get thulecite. 

My dude. If Thulecite is really as easy as picking reeds for an average-level player then we have a way bigger problem then anything else in this thread, and even then I still don't believe that. Thulecite is supposed to be valuable—that's why it creates high-level gear. So if it's not just a case of experienced players being experienced then that's a huge red flag.

I'm at the point where I watch people play the game more than I play it myself. Sure sometimes people like Glermz or whomever, but most of the time it's just random people who picked up the game and are playing casually. And a good 99% of the time you better believe they don't have any Thulecite at all. Zero, zip, zilch, nada. That's not some coincidence.

Usernames I recognize from the forums or apart of the community? Sure they'll be lugging around Thulecite. That's obvious.

6 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

Maybe you haven't played Wanda, and don't know how easy it is to get her clocks, and how useless time pieces are beyond her basic kit.  Go try that.

I really don't know what's your deal with this. You keep building me up to be some obstacle preventing you from living out your grand truth when the reality is I'm not even in your way.

I have no issue with Wanda. You keep acting like I have these strong issues with her or her kit or her timepieces or her whatever. Like the most I might be bothered by is her weapon, and that's been mostly remedied with the updates.

Yes, I've played Wanda. Did I have a significantly hard time getting her clocks? No, not really. Do I think that means it's easy? No not at all. Because what I can do—what you can do. Isn't universal. I know sure as hell if I gave that same task to my casual friends with a significantly less playtime and what you'd get is one dead, and one completely unprepared for winter/spring/summer for wasting time and resources in the caves—even if they weren't even playing Wanda.

And this is with me telling them the details before hand. We long time players know better than anyone (or should) that trial and error and information gathering was, and still is at the heart of DST. The fact that a lot of players don't even touch the caves because they're preoccupied with other 'challenges' is what contributes to making Thulecite more difficult to obtain. Knowledge is a huge part of what makes a Novice into an Experienced player. So yes, that weighs in on Thulecite's availability just like anything else.

If the starting standard for 'difficult to obtain' is 'experienced players' or 'wiki-readers' and not just 'players' then that's an issue too.

11 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

pick and swap is exactly what the celestial portal is for.  If you don't like it, don't do it.  That has nothing to do with changing the game.=

I have no issue with swapping to Wolfgang to play as Wolfgang to take down a boss or whatever. What I find a complete waste is swapping to Warly so I can just play as Wolfgang (with some dishes).

This is the most used example, and it's the most used precisely because it's easy to digest (or should be). The issue isn't "oh no people are enjoying changing characters". The problem is it creates a character that isn't being played for themselves. A character's own value is being directly diminished as a result.

Having a couple perks that other people can utilize without you isn't an issue, but when the majority of a character's value can be ripped away. That is an issue.

25 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

You think this is a problem because you think you are skilled in playing without it.

You're literally making up arguments at this point. If you knew as much about me as you seem to like to think you do, then you would know I'm not even all that good at the game. I'm not bad, but I'm certainly no veteran. And yeah, I use the Celestial Portal. The argument has nothing to do with me thinking I'm hot stuff at the game or being supposedly not using the thing. It's exactly what I said above.

But there's another side to that. Some current variations of the characters we have are getting screwed over by their design. Walter's tent got brought up recently. Only Walter can utilize it's full potential, and that's great. If more characters were designed with that in-mind then the Celestial Portal wouldn't be nearly as much of an issue. But with the characters we have in the now, the Portal is problematic.

Either change the characters to work with the Portal or change the Portal to work with the Characters.

32 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

Same as people make walls for dfly out to be some egregious sin against "the intent" of the game.  You don't want to build a wall, don't build a wall.  No one is forcing you to do it.

This is from left field, but I'll bite.

You were just talking along these lines in another thread weren't you? About how the Ancient Guardian was 'intended' to be?

If AI getting stuck in player made walls is fine, what's wrong with AI getting stuck on natural walls? It's really not all that different. The only difference is you actually like the presence of one, but condemn the other. The same thing you were digging into other people for doing.

 

Now respectfully, quit dragging me into a discussion I keep explicitly saying I don't want to be involved in.

[Mysterious box]

18 minutes ago, Zeklo said:

 

Rather than spinning this round and round how about this what about getting thulecite frags do you feel is hard for the average player? 

23 minutes ago, Zeklo said:

I have no issue with swapping to Wolfgang to play as Wolfgang to take down a boss or whatever. What I find a complete waste is swapping to Warly so I can just play as Wolfgang (with some dishes).

Warly is actually quite popular on pubs the issue with his popularity came from the fact farming was abysmal post reap what you sow tho you'll often see 1-3 Warly in a server.

[Yuuko]

20 minutes ago, Zeklo said:

My dude. If Thulecite is really as easy as picking reeds for an average-level player then we have a way bigger problem then anything else in this thread, and even then I still don't believe that. Thulecite is supposed to be valuable—that's why it creates high-level gear. So if it's not just a case of experienced players being experienced then that's a huge red flag.

It is.  So there's that...  I could show a new player a few screen shots of caves maps, and a few crafts, and they'd easily get enough thulecite to craft a few extra time pieces for Wanda.  They're not coming back with a magi, star callers, or crowns, but they'll get those time pieces ez-pz.

 

[ArubaroBeefalo]

5 hours ago, Zeklo said:

There's a very specific reason expensive was in quotes, but regardless I don't think there's much of a debate here.

• Wendy. Most 'expensive' component... Mourning Glory I guess?
• Webber. Papyrus I guess?
• Willow. Gold.
• Wicker. Papyrus, literally all she gets.
• Maxwell. Nightmare Fuel.
• Warly. Gold.
• Wigfrid. Gold.
• Walter.  Mosquito Sacs I guess?

In terms of material value, Thulecite [Fragments] easily surpasses any and all of these. The only maybe argument is Webber starting with a Spider Den which takes a fair chunk of materials to craft—mainly the papyrus since the rest are easy to amass with his perks but:

In terms of 'acquiring difficulty' Thulecite might be as easy to get as gold for experienced players, but it's basically a holy relic to—dunno if I should call them 'average' players but the sizeable chunk of the player-base. Ultimately I really don't think those kinds of people should be playing Wanda in the first place, so I digress.

If you typed all this up because of my first statement then read above.

I don't really think Beard Hair is comparable to Thulecite, but at the end of the day I don't really have any strong opinions on Wanda's spawning gear to begin with. My main qualm is and will always be Pick & Swap characters—and Wanda isn't one of those so I'm not too bothered.

But you talk like if having always moon rock was easy for noob players

Im very disapointed with the users in this thread

You want to disturb people just because some players play in a way that you dont enjoy

Very selfish...

2 hours ago, Zeklo said:

I have no issue with swapping to Wolfgang to play as Wolfgang to take down a boss or whatever. What I find a complete waste is swapping to Warly so I can just play as Wolfgang (with some dishes).

Why you mind? 

So you play as a character but to fight a boss you change to wolf and that is okey but changing to warly before that is where you draw the line? Lol

Changing to wolf just for fighting is the same scenario as changing to warly just to cook

You arent experience your character downside against that enemies, you are using a x2 damage +boost speed character but if you wanna cook as warly that is bad because you arent experience warly's downsides. Not experiencing wolf's downside outside of boss fight is correct by what you said

Would you like annoying ways to balance your way of playing the game? Lets not let people taking advantage of wolf to fight, lets force players to fight bosses with the character they chosen

Better yet, i dont like exploits and i dont like people taking advantage of exploits. Lets remove AG cheese, fix hounds not comong if you log out in a dedicated server, lets fix beequeen boat method, fix DF' lavae pathfinding, fix toad mushtrees to always spawn regardless of if there is walls in the arena, remove entirely the icefligonmatic from the craft tab, fix shadow pieces so they cant be killed with gunpowder from a safe distance, fix FW fight so if you leave the arena he despawns, change frog's AI so they dont fight moose goose, remove statues messing with mobs AI, remove walking in the void by using 2 doors, remove the entire workshop, etc would you like everything that someone else dont enjoy or dont use to be fixed? I think fixing comes before nerfing but most of these changes are horrible for the community and asking them will just show how selfish or bitter i am

Well, is the same as asking for horrible changes to the portal just because someone use a tool to open multiplayer possibilities to solo players. "B-but some noob killed fw in 2 min and has a beequeen farm with catapults meanwhile dupes spider eggs because some kind of spider related kink" Wow 

I dont care and i dont understand why you care

[Well-met]

this is a legitimate issue and getting blue in the face won't change that.

klei has been shown willing to fix abuses and exploits lately so this is an excellent candidate to look at.

[kuroite]

4 hours ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

Better yet, i dont like exploits and i dont like people taking advantage of exploits. Lets remove AG cheese, fix hounds not comong if you log out in a dedicated server, lets fix beequeen boat method, fix DF' lavae pathfinding, fix toad mushtrees to always spawn regardless of if there is walls in the arena, remove entirely the icefligonmatic from the craft tab, fix shadow pieces so they cant be killed with gunpowder from a safe distance, fix FW fight so if you leave the arena he despawns, change frog's AI so they dont fight moose goose, remove statues messing with mobs AI, remove walking in the void by using 2 doors, remove the entire workshop, etc would you like everything that someone else dont enjoy or dont use to be fixed? I think fixing comes before nerfing but most of these changes are horrible for the community and asking them will just show how selfish or bitter i am

Except for removing iceflingo from craft tab, frog fighting moose goose and workshop, YES !! I would say YES for absolutely EVERYTHING !!

Im using some of them but i would love if they were fixed.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

1 minute ago, kuroite said:

Except for removing iceflingo from craft tab, frog fighting moose goose and workshop, YES !! I would say YES for absolutely EVERYTHING !!

Im using some of them but i would love if they were fixed.

i dont really care the iceflingo thing, i just dont use it outside of protecting stuff from wildfires or firehounds

frog fighting moose goose is the only good thing about frog rains, it will be even more annoying in late game if we cant take advantage of it. For experince players frog rain isnt a danger so they should fix the bug (or the not so well though code, i dont really know) that makes having 3 frog rain in a row possible

workshop is one of the things that makes this game being loved for many. Even if i dislike 99% of the mods i dont wand devs wasting time on killing theirselves economically talking

 

[Mysterious box]

1 hour ago, Well-met said:

this is a legitimate issue and getting blue in the face won't change that.

klei has been shown willing to fix abuses and exploits lately so this is an excellent candidate to look at.

I keep asking about this and I never seem to get a direct response what is the exploit here?

Switching characters? That's intended.

Getting more of a character craft when switching to that character? Do you intend to have them place a warning that you won't get a character specific item to start out when switching? Then your unnecessarily nerfing switching to Wendy or Wanda as you need the pipspook mini game which can only be done by Wendy for her flower and as for Wanda not starting with at bare min a ageless watch is a death sentence if you don't know about her beforehand. Also if this is a problem what about auto farms vs legitimate combat?

Again I'm not trying to say opposing concerns don't matter I'm just trying to understand what specifically makes the portal a issue.

[Zeklo]

10 hours ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

Im very disapointed with the users in this thread

You want to disturb people just because some players play in a way that you dont enjoy

Very selfish...

Why you mind? 

12 hours ago, Zeklo said:

The issue isn't "oh no people are enjoying changing characters". The problem is it creates a character that isn't being played for themselves. A character's own value is being directly diminished as a result.

Having a couple perks that other people can utilize without you isn't an issue, but when the majority of a character's value can be ripped away. That is an issue.

...

Some current variations of the characters we have are getting screwed over by their design. Walter's tent got brought up recently. Only Walter can utilize it's full potential, and that's great. If more characters were designed with that in-mind then the Celestial Portal wouldn't be nearly as much of an issue. But with the characters we have in the now, the Portal is problematic.

Either change the characters to work with the Portal or change the Portal to work with the Characters.

 

10 hours ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

Better yet, i dont like exploits and i dont like people taking advantage of exploits. Lets remove AG cheese, fix hounds not comong if you log out in a dedicated server, lets fix beequeen boat method, fix DF' lavae pathfinding, fix toad mushtrees to always spawn regardless of if there is walls in the arena, remove entirely the icefligonmatic from the craft tab, fix shadow pieces so they cant be killed with gunpowder from a safe distance, fix FW fight so if you leave the arena he despawns, change frog's AI so they dont fight moose goose, remove statues messing with mobs AI, remove walking in the void by using 2 doors, remove the entire workshop, etc would you like everything that someone else dont enjoy or dont use to be fixed? I think fixing comes before nerfing but most of these changes are horrible for the community and asking them will just show how selfish or bitter i am

Well, is the same as asking for horrible changes to the portal just because someone use a tool to open multiplayer possibilities to solo players.

I wasn't even talking about exploits, but like yeah I'd like to see exploits fixed? Sure there's a few exploits that would be neat to be made into true features, but that's up to Klei not us. The existence of exploits doesn't mean we can't give feedback on non-bugged but still 'upsetting' working-as-intended features.

10 hours ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

Well, is the same as asking for horrible changes to the portal just because someone use a tool to open multiplayer possibilities to solo players. "B-but some noob killed fw in 2 min and has a beequeen farm with catapults meanwhile dupes spider eggs because some kind of spider related kink" Wow 

I literally have no issue with people utilizing the Celestial Portal to benefit or have fun. Whether that's killing FW easy, or building Catapults. My issue is how it creates this problem where some characters have less (in some cases, significantly less) reason to play and continue playing as that character—because they're best aspects can just be obtained without them (ie. Warly or Winona being best examples).

There's very little reason for me to remain playing as Warly instead of just temporarily swapping to him for his dishes. This isn't just a Solo issue that 'Multiplayer people' are mad with. This is an issue with Multiplayer too, because unless you're super passionate about Warly's design or voice. You're essentially shooting yourself in the foot to continue to play him if a Celestial Portal is up.

I think each character offering the team [or in the case of a solo player the base] something beyond themselves is neat! But what they offer shouldn't strip away the majority of their character.

But like I said. We don't have to change the Celestial Portal. The alternative is changing the problematic characters a bit.

[NightfallsCurse]

On 9/19/2021 at 8:13 AM, ShadowDuelist said:

The portal should be balanced around having a cooldown

Please no

Just

No

[Nettalie]

Very late to the party, but In my honest opinion there is nothing wrong with the portal.

Any and all "cheese" or "overpowered things" boil down to being expensive to do in the first place unless you're already on something like day 500 and basically have all the things it could provide at your fingertips already or it has more to do with a character's design or playstyle not having enough abilities on its own while having tons of stuff that others just benefit from.
Only characters I can really think of to be honest who fall in that category would probably be Winona, Warly and Wormwood. And counting wormwood here is a huge stretch.

Other than that the only ones who could even remotely be counted for this would be characters who have not yet had a rework or don't provide anything beneficial enough for other characters to use on their own to really warrant swapping to them for a very short time. An argument could be made for wickerbottom and crafting books to then use as maxwell, but again this is prerework wickerbottom.

I personally think it's really weird how some characters can be virtually swapped to if you just want to make their tools and then swapped back to someone else to use them with, not having to bother with their gameplay quirks or utilizing what tiny utility they would have and I do think it's a small problem when it comes to appreciating characters to their fullest, but I absolutely do not see the problem within the portal itself.

If anything I think we should look at what people use the portal for, try to gauge whether or not that use ultimately serves to improve enjoyment or just exists as a means to an end and then see why it might just exist as a tool to be used rather than a way to try out new characters or have variety, rather than always nerfing everything or building up hoops for players to jump through for things that honestly should be fairly basic.

[ALCRD]

3 hours ago, Zeklo said:

I literally have no issue with people utilizing the Celestial Portal to benefit or have fun. Whether that's killing FW easy, or building Catapults. My issue is how it creates this problem where some characters have less (in some cases, significantly less) reason to play and continue playing as that character—because they're best aspects can just be obtained without them (ie. Warly or Winona being best examples).

There's very little reason for me to remain playing as Warly instead of just temporarily swapping to him for his dishes. This isn't just a Solo issue that 'Multiplayer people' are mad with. This is an issue with Multiplayer too, because unless you're super passionate about Warly's design or voice. You're essentially shooting yourself in the foot to continue to play him if a Celestial Portal is up.

I think each character offering the team [or in the case of a solo player the base] something beyond themselves is neat! But what they offer shouldn't strip away the majority of their character.

But like I said. We don't have to change the Celestial Portal. The alternative is changing the problematic characters a bit.

So this is more of a character balancing problem for either solo or multiplayer than a problem with Celestial Portal swapping.

People wouldn't swap characters for no reason if there wasn't any issues in how certain characters or their pairings are useful in solo or multiplayer.

[Mysterious box]

5 hours ago, Zeklo said:

literally have no issue with people utilizing the Celestial Portal to benefit or have fun. Whether that's killing FW easy, or building Catapults. My issue is how it creates this problem where some characters have less (in some cases, significantly less) reason to play and continue playing as that character—because they're best aspects can just be obtained without them (ie. Warly or Winona being best examples).

There's very little reason for me to remain playing as Warly instead of just temporarily swapping to him for his dishes. This isn't just a Solo issue that 'Multiplayer people' are mad with. This is an issue with Multiplayer too, because unless you're super passionate about Warly's design or voice. You're essentially shooting yourself in the foot to continue to play him if a Celestial Portal is up.

I think each character offering the team [or in the case of a solo player the base] something beyond themselves is neat! But what they offer shouldn't strip away the majority of their character.

There's not really a reason to actively play Wolfgang either if your not rushing bosses even less so with the addition of Wanda. Your not shooting yourself in the foot playing Warly this perspective feels like it comes from the mindset of not knowing how to off set his downsides. Best example would be Wickerbottom, Wolfgang and Maxwell you fully gain their benefits by playing them but you don't need to playing them to keep the resources they you earn with them. This just seems like more of a your having problems using Warly than Warly not doing enough.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

6 hours ago, Zeklo said:

 

 

warly is interesting enough, i know people that love playing as him. I like it too, i think he has one of the most interesting desing, being able to share this "perks" is bad? i dont think so when he is the chef in a multiplayer game so makes sense that he is the one on charge of feeding everyone. His downside is the cherry on top for people who enjoy playing in different ways on each world (not a rare thing taking in count the rogelite roots of DS)

also i dont want klei being limited by how the portal works, if an idea for a character is good and fun it shouldnt matter that much if is op via portal (unless is too damn stupid)

[Mike23Ua]

I’m confused, what exactly is so hard about building the celestial portal? I pretty much can have this thing built by day 6.. getting moon rocks isn’t even that hard- it’s rather or not the orb meteor spawns is what delays it.

But for what it’s worth: The portal feels like literal cheating to me, if I join a world to survive as WES I’m not going to swap out for Wolfgang to do something, because the entire POINT is surviving AS WES.. 

But, I don’t have to use the portal if I don’t want to so I’m fine with that.. the only thing I’m not so fine with is how easy it is to set up such an OP feature..

If Anyone in this thread can say it takes more work building and using the celestial portal then it does simply completing the entire upgrade and max happiness for Pearl (yeah I’m going there.. get over it.)

My point? For as much usefulness as the Celestial portal has- WHY is Doing tasks like Pearls quests more difficult?

Klei really needs to change the way this thing works.. and now that there’s a MOON BOSS on a MOON ISLAND, I’m pretty sure I can guess where this MOON ORB needs to be relocated to.

[Yuuko]

29 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

I’m confused, what exactly is so hard about building the celestial portal? I pretty much can have this thing built by day 6.. getting moon rocks isn’t even that hard- it’s rather or not the orb meteor spawns is what delays it.

QuartzBeam shared solid info - you can craft the portal upgrades from the lunar crafting station so you don't need to wait for meteor.

I don't think anyone is saying the CP takes super long to put together - more that it's not instant.  It takes effort to get that much moon rock and purple gems that early in the game.  Enough effort that its easier to walk to the Archives for your thulecite and craft her time pieces without the CP.  The only advantage of the CP is the ability to stockpile time pieces.  Is stock piling OP though?  I feel well equipped with just 2 ageless, 1 backstep, and my alarming clock.  That's 6 time pieces, only 2 more than you start with.  I could use 1 for a second chance watch if I'm playing with other people.  Beyond that the extra time pieces are just for backtrek watches...  If I gave you 1000 time pieces on day 1 you'd probably still have 990 sitting there 200 days in...  a chest full of wires would be more useful lol

So in recap:
Is the CP hard to build?  No.
Is it the fastest / cheapest way to get time pieces?  No.
Is it useful tech for a 500+ days world that's farmed up a stack of walrus tusk?  Yes.
Should it be a concern that a Wanda can get a chest full of time pieces?  Not at all.

Like - literally this is on par with respawning as Wickerbottom to get papyrus b/c your world didn't have a reed trap.  Except a chest full of papyrus would actually be more useful since you can craft tons of books, wax paper, or night armor without being gated by another, even more rare resource.

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But for what it’s worth: The portal feels like literal cheating to me, if I join a world to survive as WES I’m not going to swap out for Wolfgang to do something, because the entire POINT is surviving AS WES.. 

If you wanted to show off that you'd trashed the game as Wes, but had Winona catapults set up to help with all of the bosses I don't think anyone would congratulate you.  That's kinda fraudulent.  But if someone likes to run around as Wes and have fun, but wants to switch to Wolfgang for high hp bosses to take them down faster why not?  What's it matter to you?

Most worlds I pick a single character and play them out - because I like that sort of theme.  Some players don't, and Klei has given them a way to mix things up by combining the character's perks in unique and fun ways.  Congrats for them ~ it has zero baring on my world.

Sometimes I like to play differently too.  Sometimes I will use a CP to combine the benefits of multiple characters, other times I disable my attack button to see how much I can do without it.  None of that requires YOU do anything.

[Frosty_Mentos]

I dunno why ya'll so concerned about thulecite being a material that you can get from those clock pieces, not like you can break them down for anything that's worth without needing a green staff.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

6 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

The portal feels like literal cheating to me, if I join a world to survive as WES I’m not going to swap out for Wolfgang to do something, because the entire POINT is surviving AS WES.. 

That is what i dont enjoy about the portal but we have to take into considerarion that there is players that doesnt use it to beat the survival part like for decoration, to keep a long term world fresh after many days or just to experiment mixing character perks

Other players use it to play in the most efficient way so they dont grind that much to make megabases. These players have beat the survival part many time ago so changing just makes things faster but isnt needed to beat the game

That there are noobs that just copy how a streamer plays shouldnt be the entire focus of balancing the portal like some users seems to forget here