Webber free and unlimited healing!

[Captain_Rage]

4 hours ago, Guille6785 said:

"webber is op because he makes a small aspect of the game easier" thread #345049834

*almost every

 

1 minute ago, Guille6785 said:

so are hound waves your entire point of why webber is op

No. In the video above Webber kills Klaus without even having to kite with minimal resource investment and three Football Helmets. Zero Nurse Spiders were lost. The guy in the video says that anyone can pull this off, because it requires no skills or brain activity.

Unless Klaus is supposed to be on the same level of difficulty to defeat as Gobbler something went wrong here.

  

25 minutes ago, Guille6785 said:

also learn to kite

This is exactly what the current Nurse Spiders totally remove the need for.

[Guille6785]

3 minutes ago, Captain_Rage said:

*almost every

combat isn't everything in this game

 

5 minutes ago, Captain_Rage said:

The guy in the video says that anyone can pull this off, because it requires no skills or brain activity.

I see nothing wrong with giving players the option to prepare in advance to make a boss easier

[Mysterious box]

4 minutes ago, Guille6785 said:

nobody's holding you at gunpoint to fight every tallbird you see

Not saying you have to but i think your missing the point your saying that because combat is avoidable the ability to bypass the act of it while receiving the same rewards for said action is ok and in my opinion if this is ok why wasn't wickerbottom's food book?

[Guille6785]

2 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Not saying you have to but i think your missing the point your saying that because combat is avoidable the ability to bypass the act of it while receiving the same rewards for said action is ok

you can bypass combat and get the rewards for it as any character with farms, webber introduces nothing new here

3 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

 and in my opinion if this is ok why wasn't wickerbottom's food book?

the decision to nerf horticulture was only really made with the intention to encourage players to use the new farms instead, I don't agree with it besides that and I hope the devs don't try to nerf stuff again because they're awful at balancing

[Mysterious box]

24 minutes ago, Guille6785 said:

you can bypass combat and get the rewards for it as any character with farms, webber introduces nothing new here

the decision to nerf horticulture was only really made with the intention to encourage players to use the new farms instead, I don't agree with it besides that and I hope the devs don't try to nerf stuff again because they're awful at balancing

Except mob farms are made by exploiting mob a.i. where as webber carrys his intended feature with him.

I guess what I'm trying to get at is just because with proper knowledge and skill you can ignore a mechanic it doesn't mean that mechanic doesn't matter I'm not asking for nerfs but I won't say he's balanced either I mean if kiel released the next character with infinite hunger and sanity then said surviving is easy so what does it matter if it has no hunger or sanity would that be okay as well?

Also I knew the reason behind the wickerbottom nerf and the bunnyman one I actually agree with how the handled bunnymen since they were far too rewarding in all prospects but it's hard for me to accept the Wickerbottom one when you compare other characters.

[Guille6785]

12 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Except mob farms are made by exploiting mob a.i. where as webber carrys his intended feature with him.

that behavior was expliticly stated by the devs to be intended lol

12 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

just because with proper knowledge and skill you can ignore a mechanic it doesn't mean that mechanic doesn't matter I'm not asking for nerfs but I won't say he's balanced either I mean if kiel released the next character with infinite hunger and sanity then said surviving is easy so what does it matter if it has no hunger or sanity would that be okay as well?

the longer version of what I'm getting at besides "just kite lmao" is that webber simply gives players the option to make general combat easier at the cost of having to get the nurse spiders which seems perfectly fair to me, someone who knows how to avoid damage will simply kite and make effective farms instead of bothering with the spiders therefore saving more time overall (higher skill higher reward, as it should be), I see absolutely nothing wrong with allowing players who don't like combat to make it more comfortable for themselves, webber is just one of many options available

 

also I think everyone forgot that other characters can heal too lol

[Mysterious box]

5 minutes ago, Guille6785 said:

that behavior was expliticly stated by the devs to be intended lol

the longer version of what I'm getting at besides "just kite lmao" is that webber simply gives players the option to make general combat easier at the cost of having to get the nurse spiders which seems perfectly fair to me, someone who knows how to avoid damage will simply kite and make effective farms instead of bothering with the spiders therefore saving more time overall (higher skill higher reward, as it should be), I see absolutely nothing wrong with allowing players who don't like combat to make it more comfortable for themselves, webber is just one of many options available

I think your misunderstanding me I'm not saying his unbalanced because nurses allow him to tank I'm saying he's unbalanced because he has a horde he only has to pay once to solve all of his problems for him as I've said before he doesn't techincally need nurses to achieve this there is a difference between making combat easier and not requiring combat at all.

[Captain_Rage]

21 minutes ago, Guille6785 said:

that behavior was expliticly stated by the devs to be intended lol

the longer version of what I'm getting at besides "just kite lmao" is that webber simply gives players the option to make general combat easier at the cost of having to get the nurse spiders which seems perfectly fair to me, someone who knows how to avoid damage will simply kite and make effective farms instead of bothering with the spiders therefore saving more time overall (higher skill higher reward, as it should be), I see absolutely nothing wrong with allowing players who don't like combat to make it more comfortable for themselves, webber is just one of many options available

 

also I think everyone forgot that other characters can heal too lol

Aren't parts of the game supposed to be considered challenging? Like fighting Klaus. Certainly, with experience and know-how fighting Klaus might be "trivial", but it is not trivial inherently. Getting a squad of followers that heal you automatically to the degree you simply don't have to kite or do anything makes the fight inherently boring.

If there was a character who could craft a stick of death using a twig for one-hitting bosses your argument about preparing / investing resources could also be applied but that would be horrible game design for a number of reasons.

Webber doesn't even heal. It's his minions that do, and they do it to a silly degree and do it fully automated. The other heals in the rely on some trade-off / resources / judgment / user interaction / timing to pull off. Webber's army does not provide an alternative as much as it renders other alternatives redundant, which is frankly sad to see. I hope this is not the direction the game will go in following updates.

[mario1q1]

Whew, I didn't know Klei is forcing people to use nurse spiders at a gunpoint. Yeah, It can make some bosses trivial, but like Guille said, most people playing the game extensivly should know how to kite anyway. And who am I to tell people that they shouldn't use Nurse Spiders for their benefits. Let people just have fun with the game.

[ShadowDuelist]

Webber has a terribly grindy gameplay in exchange, plus nigh permanent insanity whenever you are not sitting at base. He’s an optional super tank, if you want to invest time and constant managing of your spiders (which as Wigfrid or Wortox you could be a super tank too without doing any of those things)

It’s almost like the same business about Winona or Wurt, grind your perks to the limit and make a certain aspect of the game simple. While you deal with other stuff of the game or your character.

Permanent super healing already existed, I mean if a Winona established a catapult farm near BQ and near Dragonfly you get the gems to power both farms, plus an endless supply of one of the best helmets of the game and health regen for your character. The same goes for Wurt as soon as she reaches merm king and 12+ soldiers tier. A solo Wendy doesn’t even need that much grinding, she can defeat bee queen without kiting as soon as she gets her hands on a marble suit, 2 or 3 healings for herself and a healing or two for Abigail.

I fear that these kinda posts will nerf the nurse spiders, probably pooping a heal every several minutes or something like that, rendering Webber’s rework only nice thing useless and turning webber again into the mediocre monster meat maker he was. I wish his perks would have pointed somewhere else honestly, but from what we got, the healing and the whistle are to me the main aspects of the rework as a whole.

[Scrimbles]

9 hours ago, Guille6785 said:

"webber is op because he makes a small aspect of the game easier" thread #345049834

"Negative sarcastic post about people for being unhappy about an aspect of the game post" #whocares

[MondayNight]

15 hours ago, Captain_Rage said:

  Hide contents

 

The Webber rework is getting unsexier by the minute. >_> Unless the idea behind it was to provide gimmicks to trivialize combat and mitigate danger. Then bravo.

Yeah... you lost me at "need 12 Football Helmets" for Klaus. Not to mention the many times (not edited out of video, in a clip with plenty cuts) he ran from Big Red with almost no life while spiders were either swarming around in flames or being frozen in place. A "lel, dope madness" strat not very practical, on par with Tentacle trap plus blocking Deers. Klaus is an easy fight (for advanced players), all mentioned shenanigans above are mostly cluttered chaos prone to epic fails. Likewise that Warrior-Nurse blocked by Fossils - is a funny gimmick, but no advanced player will lose time sitting beside the setup for 8hp healings each 10s-or-so. Is on par with Sanity farm via evil elements with BQ Crown - nice to have, but ultimately superfluous.

[QuartzBeam]

2 hours ago, ShadowDuelist said:

pooping a heal

Wormwood intensifies

[Copyafriend]

6 hours ago, Guille6785 said:

nobody's holding you at gunpoint to fight every tallbird you see

Guille, my guy, nothing against you, or against having an easier character or two, but its not a crime to prefer some balance in the game. Nurse spiders making him and his entire swarm nigh invincible isnt balanced, theres no real way to argue it is. Its not as quick to build an army as just doing it yourself, but when his perks could turn 90% of the game into a cakewalk for anyone with the weakest understanding of yne game, maybe its time to take a hard look at him and reduce his effectiveness.

webber was one of my favorites for lights out, easy silk meant you could get a tophat early as day 10 even if you’ve had the worst luck with spiders, but you had to watch his sanity carefully, sanity monsters are a LOT more dangerous when you only have a second or two to react to them spawning in your path. And while that hasnt changed, anything that isnt a sanity monster can be taken out easily without even dropping my lantern and fighting in its circle of light, i can just sick a permanent 10 strong self healing army on anything that isnt stronger than a treeguard and easily kill it while also healing myself. It feels cheap, and that makes it no fun. My favorite part of the game was the challenge, but if they’re making characters stupid easy to play, then its not a fun game to play.

and on a similar but different vein

i finally understand why I always considered wortox op when everyone else considered him balanced, there is no long term for me, once base is set up and food just becomes a bar to watch, its not fun for me, for a megabaser the food drain is a pain in the ass for little reward. In the early challenging days i prefer, souls make the early experience super easy, food is handled by it, health is handled by it, only sanity, which can be permanently solved with a tophat, or literally any sanity food. 

having an effectively infinite supply of healing and food with only the effort needed to kite bees is op to me, because i want the game to force me to scramble for food and look for a healing item, i want that stuff to be scarce so i turn down food settings. I like the pure survival feeling of the first year. The second year i might rush bosses and that’ll distract me, but having everything automated isnt fun, its boring, ive rushed the ruins in a lights out game and had a starcaller staff and the moon stone with walls around it by the first full moon, it was easy and trivialized most of the problems that come with lights out.

i quit before the year was out.

 

what does all that have to do with webber: well to put it simply: the game is becoming too easy, we’re not all megabasers who firefarm bee queen. When my favorite part of the content is so easily beaten, it drives me away. There’s no risk to fighting a boss in the third year, if i **** it up i just walk over and try again. Even if the only werepigs i kill came from monster meat, by year three i’ll still have enough football helmets to try nearly indefinitely. If i die to dragon fly because i didnt make my cage big enough to dodge her enrage (i make a box i dont abuse ai) my runs over unless theres a touchstone nearby. But if i do kill her, winter is a lot more bearable, and i can get magic up.

Webbers rework is echoing the fact that the developers dont care about their “uncompromising” game anymore. Even the challenge character got easier, not that i ever played wes his downsides were always nuisances and never really made a difference. Or maybe the game i loved was never meant to be played the way i played it. Because it sure as hell feels like the developers want a casual stroll through a forest with light survival elements and optional boss fights. 

[Cassielu]

Well, I can't access the link you sent for now, is that nurse spider civil war?

[Mysterious box]

2 hours ago, ShadowDuelist said:

Webber has a terribly grindy gameplay in exchange, plus nigh permanent insanity whenever you are not sitting at base. He’s an optional super tank, if you want to invest time and constant managing of your spiders (which as Wigfrid or Wortox you could be a super tank too without doing any of those things)

It’s almost like the same business about Winona or Wurt, grind your perks to the limit and make a certain aspect of the game simple. While you deal with other stuff of the game or your character.

Permanent super healing already existed, I mean if a Winona established a catapult farm near BQ and near Dragonfly you get the gems to power both farms, plus an endless supply of one of the best helmets of the game and health regen for your character. The same goes for Wurt as soon as she reaches merm king and 12+ soldiers tier. A solo Wendy doesn’t even need that much grinding, she can defeat bee queen without kiting as soon as she gets her hands on a marble suit, 2 or 3 healings for herself and a healing or two for Abigail.

I fear that these kinda posts will nerf the nurse spiders, probably pooping a heal every several minutes or something like that, rendering Webber’s rework only nice thing useless and turning webber again into the mediocre monster meat maker he was. I wish his perks would have pointed somewhere else honestly, but from what we got, the healing and the whistle are to me the main aspects of the rework as a whole.

What webber grind tho? You don't need spitters and nurses are extremely cheap but even without nurses you can destory most combat situations without nurses due to the new loyalty.

But let's say for example you did want to maximize your damage with your horde all you need is a rabbit trap or two and to spend a day or two at most catching spitters at their dens to bypass the resource grind.

Webber's sanity seems like a hard thing to manage until you craft a tophat and later upgrade to a tame but even if don't make that leap to tamo resources will eventually stockpile if you prefer to do wars so there's no reason not to place dens at different points at the map to restock food and get a free bed. Sure this doesn't help in boss fights but that's more of player error than anything else if you have no way to restore sanity.

While you never really know if they will or not I don't think the devs will want to nerf since it'll open up a whole can of worms.

[minespatch]

2 hours ago, QuartzBeam said:

Wormwood intensifies

[sudoku]

2 hours ago, Copyafriend said:

Webbers rework is echoing the fact that the developers dont care about their “uncompromising” game anymore. Even the challenge character got easier, not that i ever played wes his downsides were always nuisances and never really made a difference. Or maybe the game i loved was never meant to be played the way i played it. Because it sure as hell feels like the developers want a casual stroll through a forest with light survival elements and optional boss fights. 

I agree that DSTs developers certainly do no feel like the same ones who made singleplayer, for which i have retreated to due to boredom with DST, or maybe the larger audience has shifted what the priorities are for the developers. I really feel like skins and mini game events have carved out a large casual audience, which isnt a bad thing per se, it is just frustrating for those who want more survival gameplay to have to now share kleis attention.

[minespatch]

3 minutes ago, sudoku said:

. I really feel like skins and mini game events have carved out a large casual audience, which isnt a bad thing per se, it is just frustrating for those who want more survival gameplay to have to now share kleis attention.

For me, I feel that there's a bigger picture going on. We get worldbuilding, refreshes, and then the mini events. I really appreciate the worldbuilding since there's a gradual process(like how one has a Dark Souls boss checklist). Incentive with exploring the land while taking your time. The devs allow players to chose and then those casuals reach out to bigger features because they're curious about a game mechanic,

 

Happened with me on Oxygen Not Included and Hollow Knight.

[ShadowDuelist]

1 hour ago, Mysterious box said:

What webber grind tho? You don't need spitters and nurses are extremely cheap but even without nurses you can destory most combat situations without nurses due to the new loyalty.

But let's say for example you did want to maximize your damage with your horde all you need is a rabbit trap or two and to spend a day or two at most catching spitters at their dens to bypass the resource grind.

Webber's sanity seems like a hard thing to manage until you craft a tophat and later upgrade to a tame but even if don't make that leap to tamo resources will eventually stockpile if you prefer to do wars so there's no reason not to place dens at different points at the map to restock food and get a free bed. Sure this doesn't help in boss fights but that's more of player error than anything else if you have no way to restore sanity.

While you never really know if they will or not I don't think the devs will want to nerf since it'll open up a whole can of worms.

And every time you have to go down to caves or up again you have to spend another day or two catching them... or get rid of the nurses before wars... 
I'm not saying playing as him isn't possible or commiting to all these stuff is bad, I personally find it annoying.  The sanity part was just an example, like that you have to handle it, even with a Tam you will get insane more often than any other character. Webber also can't use pigs so he doesn't have any gathering perk before Bearger. He is also a bit worse than the rest when it comes to guiding bearger through a forest, since the negative sanity aura of bearger will force him to have terrorbeak breaks if he's not using BQ crown.
I still personally fail to see him as OP (and I tend to play characters that are widely considered not OP, like Maxwell or Woodie) I dedicated about 30 hours since the rework to Webber, testing a lot of stuff, and found his mechanics more annoying than fun.
But he's probably just not my cup of tea.

In any case, what would you suggest to balance Webber from his current status?

[sudoku]

22 minutes ago, minespatch said:

For me, I feel that there's a bigger picture going on. We get worldbuilding, refreshes, and then the mini events. I really appreciate the worldbuilding since there's a gradual process(like how one has a Dark Souls boss checklist). Incentive with exploring the land while taking your time. The devs allow players to chose and then those casuals reach out to bigger features because they're curious about a game mechanic,

 

Happened with me on Oxygen Not Included and Hollow Knight.

Maybe i am just not really a fan of the update model or idk, but it feels like we wait forever to get any real meat and bones gameplay updates, and then once they do release an update the new content sits there for 3ish months again to be expanded on.

I kinda wish 2021 was just the year of character refreshes, like finish the cast off so we can finally move on to actual new content without the refreshes slowing the pacing of new content off.

[minespatch]

1 minute ago, sudoku said:

Maybe i am just not really a fan of the update model or idk

Doesn't help the devs aren't together at Klei offices. The productivity was faster before the lockdowns.

[QuartzBeam]

1 minute ago, AlienMagi said:

Where were you when wolfgang and wigfrid were added to the game? And when wendy got reworked? Why are you so worried about one of the weakest characters in the game finally becoming somewhat useful?

Where were you when wolfgang and wigfrid were added to the game? And when wendy got reworked? Why are you so worried about one of the weakest characters in the game finally becoming somewhat useful?

Where were you when wolfgang and wigfrid were added to the game? And when wendy got reworked? Why are you so worried about one of the weakest characters in the game finally becoming somewhat useful?

Where were you when wolfgang and wigfrid were added to the game? And when wendy got reworked? Why are you so worried about one of the weakest characters in the game finally becoming somewhat useful?

Okay, we get it. :P

[Alienm]

11 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

Which small aspect do you mean? He trivializes all forms of basic combat below the boss level before even using special spiders.

Where were you when wolfgang and wigfrid were added to the game? And when wendy got reworked? Why are you so worried about one of the weakest characters in the game finally becoming somewhat useful?

[minespatch]

1 minute ago, AlienMagi said:

• Where were you when wolfgang and wigfrid were added to the game? And when wendy got reworked? Why are you so worried about one of the weakest characters in the game finally becoming somewhat useful?
• Where were you when wolfgang and wigfrid were added to the game? And when wendy got reworked? Why are you so worried about one of the weakest characters in the game finally becoming somewhat useful?
• Where were you when wolfgang and wigfrid were added to the game? And when wendy got reworked? Why are you so worried about one of the weakest characters in the game finally becoming somewhat useful?
• Where were you when wolfgang and wigfrid were added to the game? And when wendy got reworked? Why are you so worried about one of the weakest characters in the game finally becoming somewhat useful?