[Poll] On Character Powerlevel Perceptions

[Bugsworth]

1 minute ago, Keller Max said:

You need to be more specific about the preparations.

food

[Keller Max]

2 minutes ago, Bugsworth said:

food

Yeah, because world of don't starve doesn't have any food besides seeds and carrots, lmao.

I understand that you don't want your favorite character to be nerfed, but cmon. He's just too good.

[Bugsworth]

Just now, Keller Max said:

Yeah, because world of don't starve doesn't have any food besides seeds and carrots, lmao.

i dont exactly know what you mean by that because im French, but if it means what i think youre saying its that youre bringing carrots and seeds, no, thats an even bigger waste of time. even if you bring meat stew youre still preparing for a lot more than what a normal charecter. if you need me to do the math, im fine with that. i'd just rather not.

[Guille6785]

22 minutes ago, Keller Max said:

Bro, its not always about the bosses. We also have regular mobs.

oh no what am I ever gonna do with those 1.8 seconds I didn't save killing a spider warrior

35 minutes ago, Keller Max said:

Wolfgang can easily clear the ruins

that depends on the player and not the character, I can "easily" clear the ruins as wes with an axe and a torch but that doesn't make him good

36 minutes ago, Keller Max said:

His favorite food is ROASTED POTATO 40 Hunger 20 hp. Potato is one of the 3 of first veggies you will grow. And you know how simple it is to stockpile veggies now with new farms?

potatoes are a mediocre source of food even for wolfgang, tilling + sowing + harvesting + cooking for every potato consumes a lot of time and they don't restore much hunger, plus they spoil quickly making them inefficient to stockpile and require constant bundling, you could just use honey to keep mightiness up when you need it

[ArubaroBeefalo]

54 minutes ago, Bugsworth said:

wolfgang is not the strongest. i dont know how many times i need to say this, he's balanced as hell. his insain hunger drain and the fact that the only way he gets any noticable upsides is when that happenes making it fair to say that hes going to spend at least double time getting food. boss fights already dont last that long so getting 2X speed when killing the boss thats already 4 minutes is only going to save 2 minutes. unlike other charecters, he's going to need to prep food for a fight making him arguably worse for boss fights. and besides, he doesnt even have highest damage output in a solo environment (using portal makes it a multiplayer environment) that title goes to warly who on top of having the biggest damage output, also has the biggest stomach. im not saying that warly is the best, im just saying that dst is much more balanced than many people want to accept.

if food were a problem you could be right. Also, as others said, isnt about bosses only

[Bugsworth]

1 minute ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

if food were a problem you could be right. Also, as others said, isnt about bosses only

bosses are the only significant thing. if you eat a lot to kill a handfull of pigs, bees or spiders (something like that) thats a waste of food. 

[ArubaroBeefalo]

4 minutes ago, Bugsworth said:

bosses are the only significant thing. if you eat a lot to kill a handfull of pigs, bees or spiders (something like that) thats a waste of food. 

wat? is a waste of food being at full stomach to farm more food? maybe if you only kill 2 but, as wolfgang, you must be at full stomach to kill everything because before you go down to 1.5 damage you will be already with your inventory fill with meats. Not only you save a lot of resources but also time

[DrMcGillacactus]

I don't think any of 'em are particularly weak in a group, but I ticked WX-78 'cause it would make 'em angry. (also there isn't a "none" option)

[Bugsworth]

1 minute ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

wat? is a waste of food being at full stomach to farm more food? maybe if you only kill 2 but, as wolfgang, you must be at full stomach to kill everything because before you go down to 1.5 damage you will be already with your inventory fill with meats. Not only you save a lot of resources but also time

want me to do maths?

[ArubaroBeefalo]

1 minute ago, Bugsworth said:

want me to do maths?

yes pls. Tell me how wasting 6 meats and 2 fillers to get 300 hunger is a waste when you have speed boost and x2 damage to get dozens of large meats

[Bugsworth]

19 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

yes pls. Tell me how wasting 6 meats and 2 fillers to get 300 hunger is a waste when you have speed boost and x2 damage to get dozens of large meats

wolfgang damage is at best 2X damage and 3X hunger drain. its fair to say that he's not going to be at max the whole time because thats just unrealistic. lets round down a little to say its 2.5X hunger drain still with 2X damage (making him more powerful btw)
for a normal charecter to kill 1 pig it would take around 10 seconds assuming youre doing it the most effecient way. for him it should take 5 seconds instead. (using dark sword)
pigs have 75% chance for a meat so assuming youre not lucky, killing four pigs for a total of 40 seconds or 20 as wolfgang should get you three meat.
lets say you have most effecient meat stew recepie, two meat two morsel. lets say kiling a rabbit takes 1 seconds, 22 seconds wolfgang 42 any other charcter.
meat stew fills you for 150 hunger. two morsel and two meat fills 75 hunger while this fills 150, much better.
assuming this, you get -2.5X hunger from the meat stew or 60 hunger. you save 20 seconds getting the resources which is basically half while 60 is not half of 150.
not only that, but if youre doing a ruin clear its not going to take much less time because you only have 1.25 speed boost which makes him even worse.
lets say he gets more than that, 2X less ruin clear time (youre not spending a lot of time fighting so this is highly inacurate.) hes still not benifitting.
if he had better tool usage, ye, he'd be better than average, but still not good. and this is assuming he's better than he is.

edit: this is not very hard math to do either, its not rocket science. its basic adding.

edit two: yeah, he might seem good in the moment, but really isnt. yeah, you dont spend as much time in the ruin and yeah, not as much time fighting, but it doesnt matter when you need to prepare for more time. 

[GetNerfedOn]

walter seems to be consistently perceived as weak and i'm curious as to why exactly

 

[Guille6785]

8 minutes ago, GetNerfedOn said:

walter seems to be consistently perceived as weak and i'm curious as to why exactly

 

because slingshot bad therefore walter bad and kiting doesn't exist

[Yuuko]

10 hours ago, Bugsworth said:

my point still stands. for him to easily clear ruins hell still need to prepare a lot longer than other charecter making it arguably worse. hes going to need to be big for basically the whole ruin clear. im well aware on how to play the game btw. And yes, i know how easy it is to get potato, but like i said before, hes going to need to prepare a lot longer making him balanced.

 

Digging up some blue mushrooms isn't that time consuming, and you only need like 20 or so.  I never prepped for Wolfgang anymore than I prepped for other characters for ruins rush.  imo only WX can prep less b/c gears give them more, but with Wolfgang's double damage he actually clears the ruins faster making up time.  Depends on what you mean by rushing, and what you get out of it though.  If you just want to clear the AG and make a few thulecite crowns anyone can do it pretty quick, but if you want to actually clear a decent chunk of the ruins Wolfgang is going to be best.

Its not hard to stay pretty close to cap hunger even with the drain, I usually eat the blue mushrooms more for healing than I do hunger, and Wolfgang is going to take less damage b/c less time in combat = less damage.

1 hour ago, GetNerfedOn said:

walter seems to be consistently perceived as weak and i'm curious as to why exactly

 

That's what I'm wondering...  I'm guessing its due to lack of experience.  I only just started playing him, but I'm finding him to be a great pick due to utility of the slingshot, mobility from Woby, and not worrying about sanity management most of the game.  But I do play with a kiting playstyle, preferring to not take damage rather than tank through every fight.  Its a bit annoying to manage his small stomach, but I'm getting better at it.  Stacks of jerky and honey are where its at lol

--------------------------------------------------

I haven't played new Wes yet.  I was kinda on break from the game for a while, and playing it again now I usually defer Wes to my buddy who provides much more Wes fun than I do lol  Any time he picks Wes I pick Warly and devote myself to cooking up crepes for him XD  I'm kinda glad to hear new Wes has some up sides... but only kinda... b/c part of Wes is that he's supposed to be a downside.  I guess the times, they are a changing lol

[BeeClops]

10 hours ago, GetNerfedOn said:

walter seems to be consistently perceived as weak and i'm curious as to why exactly

 

because he's very bad unless you're decently experienced and requires constant focus all the time. I think he's pretty good on paper but still don't like playing him, I can never freakin chill or take freezing/overheating/starvation dmg. And nothing can kill you as easily as riding woby in the swamp early days lol, 1 stun = ded.

I didn't vote for him in the weak category, personally I think only Wilson and Wes are really weak. 

[Keller Max]

5 minutes ago, BeeClops said:

because he's very bad unless you're decently experienced and requires constant focus all the time. I think he's pretty good on paper but still don't like playing him, I can never freakin chill or take freezing/overheating/starvation dmg. And nothing can kill you as easily as riding woby in the swamp early days lol, 1 stun = ded.

I didn't vote for him in the weak category, personally I think only Wilson and Wes are really weak. 

No space for mistake with this guy.

[BeeClops]

19 hours ago, Bugsworth said:

my point still stands. for him to easily clear ruins hell still need to prepare a lot longer than other charecter making it arguably worse. hes going to need to be big for basically the whole ruin clear. im well aware on how to play the game btw. And yes, i know how easy it is to get potato, but like i said before, hes going to need to prepare a lot longer making him balanced.

 

Wolf has the easiest and fastest ruins rush; blue mush and lichen in wilds biome is all he needs and you find those on the way, the only preparation is a few pigskin. Maybe WX is somewhat easier but no way it's faster, and Wendy really isn't that great for early ruins rushes imo. Abi gets hammered by rooks and requires a ton of attention to keep alive, and you're really slow killing nightmares. 

[SkyistheGround]

at this point i've forgotten who i picked as the weakest in a multiplayer setting, but i've been doing some thinking and would like to share:

wx-78 wasn't really designed for a multiplayer setting. they'll consume a lot of valuable resources-- gears, papyrus and gems for the end is high, even living logs and fuel if you overcharge w/ telelocator

and yet they don't have much to give back. at all. wx has no ability that benefits the team as a whole and that's why im starting to think they're weaker in a multiplayer setting

don't get me wrong, i love wx and i love playing as them (look at my icon, haha). and in a way, their ability to get the highest health and sanity pools is great so at least one member dies/goes insane less insane, and if you're near overcharged wx without a light source that's great, but that's the extent wx can do to help other players

every other character that has been added or reworked so far was given something to benefit the team as a whole. wortox souls, wormwood's crops, warly's spices, winona's catapults, and with webber rework around the corner, he'll get features that let spiders be beneficial to have around in general

and that's what i hope for a wx rework, a couple of features that shift gear (pun intended??) towards team play. 

i think it would be super cool if wx players could specialize how they wanted to play them. i feel like upgrades could be more specialized into preforming more specific features, like more efficient chopping/mining/gathering, a permanent small damage and/or speed buff, etc. turn them into a character that can fill the void your team lacks. i think it would play great into the idea of the versatility of robots in general (wx's skins already play a lot into this. look at how different they are compared to willow's, for example)

and it'd also be neat if wx could de-upgrade to put gears into another path. whether or not you should be left with less gears then what you used is something im still considering, so if anyone wants to say anything about that, please do!

[Bugsworth]

10 hours ago, Shosuko said:

Digging up some blue mushrooms isn't that time consuming, and you only need like 20 or so.  I never prepped for Wolfgang anymore than I prepped for other characters for ruins rush.  imo only WX can prep less b/c gears give them more, but with Wolfgang's double damage he actually clears the ruins faster making up time.  Depends on what you mean by rushing, and what you get out of it though.  If you just want to clear the AG and make a few thulecite crowns anyone can do it pretty quick, but if you want to actually clear a decent chunk of the ruins Wolfgang is going to be best.

Its not hard to stay pretty close to cap hunger even with the drain, I usually eat the blue mushrooms more for healing than I do hunger, and Wolfgang is going to take less damage b/c less time in combat = less damage.

digging up blue caps is like a kick to the nuts to future me. and besides, did you not see the math i did? even using the most efficient food you're getting more waste than a normal character. the thing im saying isnt in my opinion, you can argue with math.

2 hours ago, BeeClops said:

Wolf has the easiest and fastest ruins rush; blue mush and lichen in wilds biome is all he needs and you find those on the way, the only preparation is a few pigskin. Maybe WX is somewhat easier but no way it's faster, and Wendy really isn't that great for early ruins rushes imo. Abi gets hammered by rooks and requires a ton of attention to keep alive, and you're really slow killing nightmares. 

just because he gets in and out of the ruins faster doesn't make him faster in the long run. a good example of this is tanking. it might be good in the moment, but it doesnt actually save time. ill give you my math. 

 

beefalo 9 seconds tanking 13 health lost 10 seconds not tanking 
krampus 5 seconds tankin 20 health lost 5.5 seconds kiting 
butter fly spawns every 15 seconds, so assuming you have 1 flower it would take you 30 seconds to restore a beef and 45 for krampus
you lose 25 % on krampus and 17 % on beefalo
it take like, 10 ish seconds to get 1 rope and it takes you on average 4 pigs to get 1 pig skin. 
that would mean it would cost you 0.25 pig skin and rope. that would take you probably a minute to get. 
kitings takes you 1-2 ish seconds more. while tanking would cost you at best 1:30 seconds. assuming you're a normal character.

 

its not about how tough something is, its about how efficient it is. just because you cant play warly doesn't make him bad, it makes you bad. many people say that hes a bad character because they cant play him. yeah, just because you can easily do something doesnt mean its better. i can easily do a ruin rush, but that doesnt make it better than starting an early base or doing a lunar rush.

[ShadowDuelist]

Any character can do anything in the right hands, I think we’re all on the same page here, but I don’t think that’s the point of this thread. I guess we’re nitpicking about how much could one squish out of their special personal perks in a solo or multiplayer setting.

And that said, in a multiplayer setting I’d say that just Wilson, WX and Pre-rework Webber are “weak”. But in a way it’s fair, since neither of these 3 characters got their reworks yet, and we’re comparing them to others much more fleshed out and complex characters.

I vote Walter as “weak” for both categories because despite being among the new branch of characters, half of his perks (which relate to the slingshot) have no use past early game. He is by no means a useless character: Woby as a whole, his portable tent and the fact that as long as you don’t take damage you don’t lose sanity are all amazing things to have. But the “weak” side of Walter comes out of how much potential his design has, and how disappointing it gets when his seemingly character defining perk, the slingshot, the “mounted ranged character’s” main weapon is the least useful of them. 
It’s probably not even that hard to fix, I mean making the slingshot have a slightly higher attack rate and making the special magic rounds (those that require moon rock to craft) have 1 tile of AOE upon hit, would probably be enough to make your slingshot way more cost effective to use throughout most of the game. But as it is, I see all decent Walters just drop or burn the slingshot past the first winter, which is a shame really. 

[Guille6785]

4 minutes ago, ShadowDuelist said:

Any character can do anything in the right hands, I think we’re all on the same page here, but I don’t think that’s the point of this thread. I guess we’re nitpicking about how much could one squish out of their special personal perks in a solo or multiplayer setting.

And that said, in a multiplayer setting I’d say that just Wilson, WX and Pre-rework Webber are “weak”. But in a way it’s fair, since neither of these 3 characters got their reworks yet, and we’re comparing them to others much more fleshed out and complex characters.

I vote Walter as “weak” for both categories because despite being among the new branch of characters, half of his perks (which relate to the slingshot) have no use past early game. He is by no means a useless character: Woby as a whole, his portable tent and the fact that as long as you don’t take damage you don’t lose sanity are all amazing things to have. But the “weak” side of Walter comes out of how much potential his design has, and how disappointing it gets when his seemingly character defining perk, the slingshot, the “mounted ranged character’s” main weapon is the least useful of them. 
It’s probably not even that hard to fix, I mean making the slingshot have a slightly higher attack rate and making the special magic rounds (those that require moon rock to craft) have 1 tile of AOE upon hit, would probably be enough to make your slingshot way more cost effective to use throughout most of the game. But as it is, I see all decent Walters just drop or burn the slingshot past the first winter, which is a shame really. 

you post makes it sounds like the slingshot is supposed to be the entirety of walter; virtually no sanity loss if you're good at avoiding damage and an immortal chester that follows you through shards are nice perks that persist past the early game

(personally I wouldn't mind a slingshot buff but it's clearly not meant to be more than a utility tool)

[HowlVoid]

2 minutes ago, Guille6785 said:

you post makes it sounds like the slingshot is supposed to be the entirety of walter; virtually no sanity loss if you're good at avoiding damage and an immortal chester that follows you through shards are nice perks that persist past the early game

The whole character was balanced around the slingshot though.

The extra space is for extra rounds

The tent/campfire stories/gaining sanity under trees is due to his downside

Not losing sanity due to auroras is so the character is always out of melee range.

Yes, literally the whole character was balanced around being a range character gimmick. 

Every character has infinite sanity due to food and every character has tons of inventory space due to bundles. I don't think I have ever wished for more inventory space past what hutch/chester and a backpack can already provide. 

[Guille6785]

3 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

The whole character was balanced around the slingshot though.

how do you know this, I've never seen devs say this and you simply provided your own interpretration of his perks that don't necessarily have to do with what klei had in mind

whether or not the slingshot was supposed to be walter's main perk, in practice it's by far the least impactful of his upsides

[HowlVoid]

2 minutes ago, Guille6785 said:

how do you know this

I explained in my comment. His perks and downsides revolve around being in range and having extra space for ammo.

[QuartzBeam]

6 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

Not losing sanity due to auroras is so the character is always out of melee range.

What? Not losing sanity from monsters' auras does not encourage staying away from the monster, it encourages the exact opposite.