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So far it is the most useless skill. You build canvases paint them and then the skill is a ded weight,you can scrub and respec it.

Yet the simpliest solution to make it useful is obvious - allow top\middle entertaining machinery to require an operator. Add morale buffs to compensate for automation loss or even better - allow it to work without operator but with reduced efficency.

For example, juke box, could be operated. Because now decorations is a stillborn skill.

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Another idea would be temporary decorations. We get access to pedestals early on. Maybe we could make clay decorations that last a limited time that we could put there. After a while the artist would need to make more (the old ones turn into clay), just needs a system that makes it automatic. It would also help to train the artistic skill.

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They could make the Tier 3 creativity skill "music" and add a bandstand and musical instruments.  Alternatively, they could add a sound booth and speakers, and dupes working near speakers could gain a morale buff based on the creativity of the dupe singing inside the sound booth.

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On 5/31/2021 at 2:42 AM, goboking said:

They could make the Tier 3 creativity skill "music" and add a bandstand and musical instruments.  Alternatively, they could add a sound booth and speakers, and dupes working near speakers could gain a morale buff based on the creativity of the dupe singing inside the sound booth.

Just call that dupe a DJ. He could passively do beatboxing during breaks for an additional +1 morale to nearby dupes.

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While the idea of operating jukebox is "realistic", I don't think it would even sync up right with work/break shifts. Would be much safer to have the musician select/record tracks during work, essentially just improving jukebox.

Also, dupe-improved jukeboxes could work passively, on all passing dupes, like parks. I never use entertainment buildings because they require long breaks to work and long breaks are a waste of time when you can scrub.

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I wouldn't call it useless. If you want to expand your base you will need more artworks, so the skilled duplicant is needed as long as you are expanding. After that many skill lose value - digging, building, researching have decreasing value as well once you stop expanding.

Having this said I wouldn't mind some cool addition to the decoration topic :) 

There could be some stage-like recreational building for artists to perform in front of other dupes to make the skill relevant even after you have everything built.

On top of that, I'd love to see separate building menu for decorative items not to make mess in "Furniture" menu. And it would be great to have more decorative items of different kinds - including lamps, fossils, fountains, etc. Maybe some high-tech radbolt decorations. And I'd love to pick painting artwork the same way I can pick monument look. All of those are different than skill rework, but IMO not less important

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On 5/30/2021 at 9:40 PM, Technoincubus said:

So far it is the most useless skill. You build canvases paint them and then the skill is a ded weight,you can scrub and respec it.

Yet the simpliest solution to make it useful is obvious - allow top\middle entertaining machinery to require an operator. Add morale buffs to compensate for automation loss or even better - allow it to work without operator but with reduced efficency.

For example, juke box, could be operated. Because now decorations is a stillborn skill.

i have always believed that what this game lacks is destruction, a spice of survival, kinda like rimworld, in there my artist is busy most of the time due to raids and infestations happening and destroying my statues all the time, adding some real threats would also add lots of replayability instead of : "i have food, i have oxygen, i have power, i have automated rockets, i guess its time to play something else"

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On 6/4/2021 at 1:50 AM, PIRATE D KING said:

i have always believed that what this game lacks is destruction, a spice of survival, kinda like rimworld, in there my artist is busy most of the time due to raids and infestations happening and destroying my statues all the time, adding some real threats would also add lots of replayability instead of : "i have food, i have oxygen, i have power, i have automated rockets, i guess its time to play something else"

Yeah, that's not going to happen in one update. Oni and Rimworld are different kinds of games. One is more like story generator, survival. The other is like a base building, colony simulator. Sure, they have similar aspects (base building, colony manager), but ultimately they are very different from each other.

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On 6/4/2021 at 6:50 AM, PIRATE D KING said:

i have always believed that what this game lacks is destruction, a spice of survival, kinda like rimworld, in there my artist is busy most of the time due to raids and infestations happening and destroying my statues all the time, adding some real threats would also add lots of replayability instead of : "i have food, i have oxygen, i have power, i have automated rockets, i guess its time to play something else"

I don't think ONI lacks violent and destructive alien-like threats. It's like saying that Fifa needs some basketball representation. Those are totally different games - ONI focuses on base building and survival against odds and CO2, not enemies. 

Having that said I wouldn't mind more threats in ONI. Diseases are most common request in this topic. 

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3 hours ago, pether said:

I don't think ONI lacks violent and destructive alien-like threats. It's like saying that Fifa needs some basketball representation. Those are totally different games - ONI focuses on base building and survival against odds and CO2, not enemies. 

I'm not sure I entirely agree with you here.  ONI is a problem solving game disguised as a base building game.  The form the problems take can be similar to colony survival games like Rimworld (stress management, food production, etc) or engineering games like Factorio (production chain optimization, automation, etc).  Hostile threats could be just another form of problem solving.

I'm not saying I want the game to evolve into a tower defense game, but imagine if hostile critters were present in certain biomes.  Now we have to solve for a new type of problem.  Suddenly we have to consider twice if we want to accept a Pacifist dupe.  If we do accept them, do we keep them in the base?  If they leave the base, do we need to escort them with someone who can fight off threats?

I think an expansion leaning into combat could add a fun new dimension to the game.  The developers would need to be careful to ensure that any hypothetical hostile threats added to the game meshed well with the games lore and tone, but I have faith that they could do so seamlessly.

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9 hours ago, goboking said:

I'm not saying I want the game to evolve into a tower defense game, but imagine if hostile critters were present in certain biomes.  Now we have to solve for a new type of problem.  Suddenly we have to consider twice if we want to accept a Pacifist dupe.  If we do accept them, do we keep them in the base?  If they leave the base, do we need to escort them with someone who can fight off threats?

Yeah, I was talking about aliens who want to destroy our base. Aggresive critters are IMO fine and fit ONI perfecrtly :) 

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On 6/11/2021 at 12:44 PM, TuxSam123 said:

Yeah, that's not going to happen in one update. Oni and Rimworld are different kinds of games. One is more like story generator, survival. The other is like a base building, colony simulator. Sure, they have similar aspects (base building, colony manager), but ultimately they are very different from each other.

i a not expecting ONI to become similar, i just wish i felt compeled to play ONI as much as i play rimworld, and after some tought i came to the realisation that that aspect of rimworld is what makes it enjoyable and replayable because even if every inch of you current base is the same as a base of anothe saved file, every human raid, mechanoid cluster/invasion, infestation keeps you on edge, focused on how to prevent what might be your base's incoming demise, while in rimworld i always reach the point of "now what?".

On 6/11/2021 at 11:43 PM, pether said:

I don't think ONI lacks violent and destructive alien-like threats. It's like saying that Fifa needs some basketball representation. Those are totally different games - ONI focuses on base building and survival against odds and CO2, not enemies. 

Having that said I wouldn't mind more threats in ONI. Diseases are most common request in this topic. 

i dont think i can agree with you on that one, cant rly compare the dificulty of facing off a surprise raid of mechanoids that can obliterate your base or at least kill some colonists if you make 1 mistake with the simplicity of placing a carbon skimmer at the bottom of your base. what i am trying to say here is that every time i reach a point in wich all the systems of my base simply work fine and everything is under control when that happens there is no more need for me to think, and at that point the game simply becomes dull, i like ONI for what it is, but if that aspect doesnt change replayability will never be a think in ONI wich feels sad.

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26 minutes ago, PIRATE D KING said:

I am not expecting ONI to become similar to Rimworld, I just wish I felt compelled to play ONI as much as I felt when playing Rimworld. After some thought I came to the realization that the story generator, survival aspect of rimworld is what makes it enjoyable and replayable because even if your current base is identical to a base from another save file, every human raid, mechanoid cluster/invasion, infestation keeps you on edge, focused on how to prevent what might be your base's incoming demise, while in ONI I always reach the point of "now what?".

It does seem like you enjoy playing Rimworld a bit more than ONI. I understand what you're trying to say here, but unfortunately I can't agree with you on that one.

 

PS: I reformulated your text to make it easier to read and more concise. Please tell if I altered some of your ideas.

On 6/11/2021 at 10:35 PM, goboking said:

I'm not sure I entirely agree with you here.  ONI is a problem solving game disguised as a base building game.  The form the problems take can be similar to colony survival games like Rimworld (stress management, food production, etc) or engineering games like Factorio (production chain optimization, automation, etc).  Hostile threats could be just another form of problem solving.

I'm not saying I want the game to evolve into a tower defense game, but imagine if hostile critters were present in certain biomes.  Now we have to solve for a new type of problem.  Suddenly we have to consider twice if we want to accept a Pacifist dupe.  If we do accept them, do we keep them in the base?  If they leave the base, do we need to escort them with someone who can fight off threats?

I think an expansion leaning into combat could add a fun new dimension to the game.  The developers would need to be careful to ensure that any hypothetical hostile threats added to the game meshed well with the games lore and tone, but I have faith that they could do so seamlessly.

Nah, pacifist is still the best negative trait you could pick for a dupe. Even if we had hostile creatures, which I think are an excellent idea, I wouldn't mind picking them. 

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12 hours ago, PIRATE D KING said:

i dont think i can agree with you on that one, cant rly compare the dificulty of facing off a surprise raid of mechanoids that can obliterate your base or at least kill some colonists if you make 1 mistake with the simplicity of placing a carbon skimmer at the bottom of your base. what i am trying to say here is that every time i reach a point in wich all the systems of my base simply work fine and everything is under control when that happens there is no more need for me to think, and at that point the game simply becomes dull, i like ONI for what it is, but if that aspect doesnt change replayability will never be a think in ONI wich feels sad.

sure, CO2 deletion is easier than fighting off aliens. And I don't opose the difficulty. I'm super OK with having dangerous things in ONI that can make your life miserable with handled wrong. 

But I don't like the idea of invaders. This doesn't fit ONI. ONI is not war game and it makes great job of being unique title, game that can be dangerous without having hostile, evil enemies.

First of all - ONI currently doesn't have any tools to defend from such invasion. So in order to iclude it into the game, you would need to have whole weapons systems included as well. Then - how would you see the fights handled? Would I need to click on every alien to kill them? That would be annoying. Would dupes fight them automaticly? Then it would be boring, just build some armory building and never bother later. If I lost the enoucer what would happen? My base would be destroyed? Then I wouldn't be able to progress the game, it would be building the same farm room over and over again.

I don't opose increased difficulty, but aliens are just lazy solution that don't even fit the game. I would love to see some creative and fun dangers, I feel that living of a kinfe's edge would be challenging and I wouldn't mind harder mid- and late game. Just not aliens, not here.

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On 5/30/2021 at 10:40 PM, Technoincubus said:

You build canvases paint them and then the skill is a ded weight,you can scrub and respec it.

Run a restaurant) Highest cooking skill probably will do fine with dependency on artistic skill - you do need a bit of artistic skills to decorate all those cakes and cookies. And artfully decorated food can count for morale increase.

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2 hours ago, pether said:

But I don't like the idea of invaders. This doesn't fit ONI.

Thematically?  It could work (if you squint).  Say a second expansion introduces the idea of there being multiple Printing Pods, each with their own conscientiousness, scattered across the solar system.  The realization that our dupes aren't alone could open the door to diplomacy and trade and, if one of the Pods has gone haywire, raids as well.

Mechanically?  I suspect that it would involve defense turrets (reducing the game to a de facto tower defense) or lots of microcmanaging (as you pointed out), neither of which sound compelling.  I suppose they could add patrol routes, defensive positions, etc, but I'm not sure the juice would be worth the squeeze. 

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The main reason with artistic skill is that after you are done with decorating there is nothing more to use that skill on. Paintings and art would need to break after a while for the dupe to remain useful. Like paintings going bleak and white so you have to repaint it (it would fix the issue where you got a medicre painting and you want to upgrade it as well).

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I agree with Pether and Goboking, but for the artists use, what about the need to polish statues and paintings?  Overtime, Statues and such would become grimey, requiring polishing (which requires polish).  If they are grimey, they DECREASE decor instead.  Also, for the hostile critters,  I think maybe instead of excavation dealing extra damage to critters, what about a guard skill set in the critter ranching tree?  They would randomly patrol a new building, maybe a patrol post?  I personally think every biome (except starting biomes) should have 1 or more aggressive creatures.  Also, what about creature nests for both passive and aggressive critters, so dealing with aggressive critters is more of a constant task, but nests have one condition to work, they require no more than 3 critters (might vary) connected to that nest to make more.  Would really make threats hard and make sure no creature can go extinct.

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13 hours ago, FreezingSlickT said:

what about the need to polish statues and paintings?  Overtime, Statues and such would become grimey, requiring polishing (which requires polish).

I do think that tidying would be the appropriate skill to clean the statures.

13 hours ago, FreezingSlickT said:

I think maybe instead of excavation dealing extra damage to critters, what about a guard skill set in the critter ranching tree?  They would randomly patrol a new building, maybe a patrol post?  I personally think every biome (except starting biomes) should have 1 or more aggressive creatures. 

This would create a completely new layer of ONI, implying that there would be other threats other than the usual lack of food, oxygen, resources. As discussed above, these changes do not fit very well ONI's style, and therefore are out of question.

13 hours ago, FreezingSlickT said:

 I personally think every biome (except starting biomes) should have 1 or more aggressive creatures.  Also, what about creature nests for both passive and aggressive critters, so dealing with aggressive critters is more of a constant task, but nests have one condition to work, they require no more than 3 critters (might vary) connected to that nest to make more.  Would really make threats hard and make sure no creature can go extinct.

I do like this change. It forces you to actually devise a plan to remove said creatures of the biome, and make you think twice before printing a pacifist duplicant. I also like the idea of these critter nests. Sometimes I just want a hatch, but they've gone extinct on my colony.

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The funny thing is, we do have two aggressive creatures.  Poke shells when protecting eggs, and Beetas.  So why not more.  I have thought of some interesting concepts for aggressive critters

Caustic aka Jungle:  Maybe a spider?  We don’t have any spiders, so it would be pretty cool.  They wouldn’t be venomous per say,  but maybe a bite would cause dupes some damage and maybe make them have -athletics and -science, cause they get woozy from the venom.  Their nests would be made of cobwebs.

Marsh (not to be confused with marshy from dlc):  Maybe a dragonfly, which does very small amounts of damage. Their nests would be white little bird nest style rafts

Desert (super lacking in potential btw.):  How about a snake?  They only attack if a dupe gets pretty close and if they do, the dupe will be bit and quite possibly paralyzed for a few seconds.  Their nests would be a small sandstone cave

Oil:  Maybe rarely, a sporechid crawler (a small hatch looking thing with some small sporechids on their back), would be found in areas where there is just carbon dioxide.  They themselves don’t attack, but the sporechid on their back release a LOT of spores.

Tundra:  Maybe a bull?  The original idea was a wolf of some kind, but wolves eat meat and in the tundra, that doesn’t really exist.  The bull would, on sight, charge a duplicate and cause a good chunk of damage.  Their nests look like an ice cave with lots of sleet wheat growing on it.

Ocean:  A barracuda would be pretty interesting.  They would constantly move throughout their pool, and attack dupes on sight by biting them and continuing move and when they turn back around at the end of their pool, they will attack again.  Their nests would be marine caves made of granite

That’s really all I got.  

 

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20 hours ago, FreezingSlickT said:

for the artists use, what about the need to polish statues and paintings?  Overtime, Statues and such would become grimey, requiring polishing (which requires polish).  If they are grimey, they DECREASE decor instead.

I have to agree with @TuxSam123, Tidying seems like the more appropriate task for cleaning art.

20 hours ago, FreezingSlickT said:

Also, what about creature nests for both passive and aggressive critters, so dealing with aggressive critters is more of a constant task, but nests have one condition to work, they require no more than 3 critters (might vary) connected to that nest to make more.

This is getting off-topic, but years ago, I proposed dens that spawn volgus (a vermin in my proposal, but the mechanic could be used for aggressive threats too).  The short of it is the dens could be kept intact to keep spawning a renewable source of materials (meat, in the case of volgus) or destroyed to remove the nuisance or threat the spawned critters represent.

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