Food conservation : vacuum is overpowered

[Costheta]

How about food gives off po2 as it spoils? Ruins a vacuum. Not a problem when blanketed in co2 or cl2.

[JRup]

1 hour ago, Gurgel said:

There is no cheating in single-player games. "Exploit" has no negative connotations in single player games. Seriously. 

Also:

 

I'd somehow missed this post, adequately pressed like for it.

[SharraShimada]

I, for myself, like the "put it into a vacuum and forget about it", because its easy to setup and no worries after. On the other hand, the stuff spoils way to fast even in CO² and with powered fridge. (for infos - i play with fasting dupes, and so they wont eat that stuff that fast). 

I would support a high-powered deep freezer as an alternative. But until then, i use vacuum and i´m happy with it. 

And yeah, some people dont like that phrase, but i do. If you dont want to use it, dont use it. A perfect vacuum is not made by accident. One does not have to use vacuum. Its a choice to do so. I´ve made mine.

[Technoincubus]

I don't understand why we don't have hgh-tech buldings that could deep freeze food. I mean, humans could do it for a hundred years now and we are talking about a game about distant future, teleports and lasers but still have no machines that could freeze food to -20. Make it power consuming with some other stuff maybe as additional consumable but allow us to do it, without creating installations that exploit game mechanics.

[SharraShimada]

14 minutes ago, Technoincubus said:

I don't understand why we don't have hgh-tech buldings that could deep freeze food. I mean, humans could do it for a hundred years now and we are talking about a game about distant future, teleports and lasers but still have no machines that could freeze food to -20. Make it power consuming with some other stuff maybe as additional consumable but allow us to do it, without creating installations that exploit game mechanics.

1926 was the first. Its not 100 years yet. Close but not yet. Predating it was just ice-boxes.

[Gurgel]

14 minutes ago, SharraShimada said:

1926 was the first. Its not 100 years yet. Close but not yet. Predating it was just ice-boxes.

Well, technically you can deep-freeze with ice: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frigorific_mixture

Water-ice and common kitchen salt (NaCl) give you -18C. It is pretty wasteful to do though.

[Meltdown]

I reviseted patch notes and they actually don't mention anything about ambient temperatures.

On 5/13/2021 at 8:06 PM, Ipsquiggle said:

• Rottable items now have two stages of cooling: Refrigerated and Deep Freeze
• Rottable items aren't fully preserved unless they are both in sterile atmosphere AND deep-frozen, because temperature and atmosphere effects now stack

The first two points are about food temperature and how it should affect spoilage rate. So the food should spoil unless it is deep frozen (-18C object temperature), not in "deep freezing ambient temperature".

The only exception stated in patch notes is that food in active refrigerator is considered to be refrigerated regardless from it's temperature. But it is still being actively cooled to actually match that temperature and count refrigerated normally.

On 5/13/2021 at 8:06 PM, Ipsquiggle said:

Refrigerators cool things to 2 degrees celsius instead of 4 degrees, so that they actually get cold enough to be refrigerated. (Note: foods in a powered fridge are always considered refrigerated regardless of temperature.)

So, looking at those patch notes, I'm confident that gaining refrigerated/deep frozen effects from simply putting food in low ambient temperature (of any atmosphere) is either a bug, or a poorly documented feature. Not an exploit, not a poor game design, not cheats. Bug that due to being fixed or mechanic due to be clarified.

12 hours ago, KonfigSys said:

How does it enrich your game experience?

In a game of problem solving, new problems always enrich game expirience, because they add to the list of things players should think about, consider, plan ahead or design around. And actually,

12 hours ago, KonfigSys said:

Do not even start with thimble reed usage

This is an important part of this new expirience. Yes, reed fiber usage is minimal, but it still plays an important role.

Before durability atmosuits were just one-time task: you create them, distribute them between all your checkpoints, and it's done. Now you have a set of problems to consider:

• Atmosuits break, so you need spares in order to keep your docks operational. How many spares do you really need?
• Do you keep your atmosuit forge before checkpoint or past it? Can you run into situation where all suits are broken and your dupes can't reach the forge to repair them?
• You want to send rocket to remote planetoid. Do you take extra suits? If yes, do how many do you need? Or maybe you shoul try to squeze atmosuit forge into the ship. How do you do it? How do you power it? If you succeed, how much reed do you need to take with you?
• How do you deal with durability in case of multiple habitated outposts? Do you grow reed localy? Maybe you grow it on one planetoid and distribute it among your outposts? Maybe you distribute repaired suits and take broken suis to central repair station? How do you design those distribution systems?

All those problems, no matter how trivial they might be, enrich game expirience, because you actually have to consider them. Those are desicions that are added to the game. Different solutions and ways to organize planetoid colonies that are added to the game. Potential mistakes that are added to the game. This is far from being "nothing".
 

P.S. Fun fact: ONI bug tracker recognizes "Exploit" and "Balance" as valid bug categories:

[spkthed]

Klei makes more than ONI, and some of those games are multi-player

[KonfigSys]

11 hours ago, Hellshound38 said:

There are no exploiters in multiplayer games either then?

Arbitrarily adding other people doesn't change the fact your exploiting unintentional mistakes in the game design or programming.

You are missing the point. 

In multiplayer unless it is a co-op, you compete with others. So any mod can put you in more advanced position in relations to others. Let's say you play a shooter and if you have a mod for invincibility, you spoil a game play for others as they cannot kill you. Using mods, codes, bugs, glitches to gain advantage in multiplayer competitive games may lead to a ban and generally have a negative context. 

In a single player, you do not gain any advantage over others. A game developer has something in mind when they present a game but then players may not like some part of the content and they will change to adapt to what each individual player really likes. So to say it is more customized product. It is a common problem when players do not play like developers envision for their game but this is not a problem as long as players are happy. It normally shows that devs do not know who are their customers and their desires. There is only one wrong way to play a single game, the way if you do not like the game play. 

It is hard to make one model fits all. Generally game devs focus on majority or fan base, or most payable segment in PtW or PtP. There are many cases when you do not need to squeeze all players into one bin, you may simply give various options to satisfy a wider group of players. That what Klei is exactly doing - there are disputes between two groups "for" and "against" some features. You can count how many for and how many against or simply give two option to choose from and then BOTH groups are happy. Unfortunately it is not always possible, you cannot have an option for each game mechanics - so conflict occurs and Klei has to make a thoughtful decision. Luckily there are mods that can correct the situation for the group which lost in the battle. 

In my view it is better to have something that not to have. You can choose use it or not.

Like the case with vacuum (or actually with 100 of other features=bugs reported in the bug report section of the forum). The current situation is; some people are using it and happy; some using it and unhappy but I cannot understand this category at all - just stop using it, and the last one they do not use it and do not care. 

Let' say Klei removes it. Then you have the first group splits to one which will stop using it (not necessary they will gain any satisfaction) and another that will be trying to fix the problem if it is vital for them and they will go for mods; the second group will say - yes, we have done it (they could achieve similar if they did not use vacuum in the first place like the third group) and the third group do not care again.

Generally many things can be corrected by mods, but any developer is not happy with mods just for one main reason - technical. Mods have to be updated regularly especially for the game which is in a fast pace development like the DLC is. As the mods are not a product of the devs you cannot guarantee they will be up to date and they may lead to crashes. So devs get some crash reports because of the mod failures. Also if mods are crashing a game it ruins play experience and players are writing negative comments but in reality devs are not responsible for that.

Also if a big portion of players is using one specific mod then it should be an in-game feature and dev marketing/community manager overlooked the issue. However, if a game has a lot of mods, it does not show it is bad; contrary, it shows the game is very popular and has so many ways to be customized.

There is a big chunk of requests/bug reports related to this problem - bug vs feature disputes. If to follow/fix, we may not see the DLC completed next year or no more new content.

Some complain that ONI does not have an end-game goal, in reality there are so many goals one can set and achieve but this requires some self discipline.

1 hour ago, spkthed said:

Klei makes more than ONI, and some of those games are multi-player

many of these games have co-op mode like DST

when you play co-op you agree with teammates what mods you want to activate.

[GreezyHammer]

16 hours ago, KonfigSys said:

it makes perfect sense for me to have zero spoilage in vacuum. Any food looses water in vacuum and hence all spoilage stops; temperature is not a point anymore. That is what used in real space stations (dehydrated food packages). I ate one of those which was stored for like two years. 

The fact that some people are trying to shortcut and make a one-tile-with-a drop-of-water vacuum storage is not relevant. My point is if there are some people who is using the shortcut, they can simply go and load a mod if the nerf comes.

I did not say that people will be unhappy. What I said SOME people, who want to have an easy vacuum storage will do it without any hassles by using mods if the nerf happens. So it does not really matter for them.

The others - like me, I do not use one tile vacuum storage and use deep freeze + CO2/Cl even from the vanilla game time - do not care. Again if I choose whether developers try to fix vacuum storage OR introduce critters/seed collection on the new POIs, then I know what option I will feel incline to.

Good that you raise the atmosuit issue. It does not add much to the game play. I do not pay attention if I choose durable or not in my settings. I simply have unlimited option set to the worn suits to be repaired and do not care when it is done or it was not required. So there is a game mechanics which probably takes some processing power (to count wear per tick) but it does not add any thing to the game. How does it enrich your game experience? Do not even start with thimble reed usage - the atmosuit repair usage is a drop in a sea when you compare with carpeted tiles or thermo-insulation production.

There are so many requests to fix what is not necessary should be fixed. At least it does not spoil anybody game experience unless

- the people have no self discipline and they cannot avoid to use some bugs or even features that make the game play too easy for them; so they complain to remove the feature or bug so they are not teased to use it

- they are jealous of others using it. I do not know why but may be the case.

I will give you so many examples:

deconstruction of rocket tiles. 

it was a bug or a feature which allowed me to build an entire base in a habitat module. I really enjoyed planning it and then flying this star base to colonize planets. Or even better not colonize but extract resources and move away.

Yes, it added another game experience which I like at the time.

Then I did not use it anymore. I have even mode installed that I can deconstruct the tiles but I have never done it after that. I had my moments of joy. And by the way it was a way better experience for me than with the nuclear reactor.

I do understand the efforts to fix bugs and similar features in multiplayer game. In ONI where you compete just with your self it does not make much difference. Everyone can change the game with mods to the style he/her prefers to play.

I never deconstruct POI glasses to build solar panels. I really like the nice view of the POIs. Some people deconstructed. Now it is fixed. I do not care but someone got really upset with OTHERS using the glass from POIs and complain to Klei?

Are there the same people who cannot control themselves in game decisions? Why it is so important for them? That what I am trying to understand. The vacuum storage does not bother me a bit. You can search the forum where in day one of the deep freeze+CO2 update I posted my OLD designs of such storages.

Because vacuum no-spoilage is unreal? What is real in the game? Also un-spoilage of vacuumed food at room temperature is well known fact in real life.

 

 

 

 

You cannot erase all exploit. Even having the fridge in CO2 can be considered an exploit.

I do not see vacuum storage as too much of the problem. There is a bug in the game that gasses may migrate into the one-water-drop vacuum storage destroying the vacuum and rendering all food spoiled. 

What about simply not using vacuum storages for your bases like I do?

As someone correctly pointed it is not about the main basis usage but mainly for remote outposts that are rarely visited by dupes. And again I do not care as there are preserves in the game or the interplanetary launcher for a quick food delivery.

My thoughts: It's a feature not a bug. Changing messy code that was written early-on is hard, especially as the game grows larger. Let's keep going!

[KonfigSys]

3 hours ago, Meltdown said:

I reviseted patch notes and they actually don't mention anything about ambient temperatures...

• Atmosuits

....

It was clarified that it is a surrounding temperature matters rather than the object temperature by Klei. I do not know how difficult and mainly processor consuming to route it to the object temperature. The game play will slightly change but not to a major extend - 

you will have spoilage going till the object temperature goes below -18C. So you will always have a bit spoiled food. On another hand, if you move it by conveyor from the cold place it may remain fresh for longer as it may still have frozen temperature. So it will be hydrogen filled storages to drop temperature fast and to very low. And yes, vacuum then will go. You will succeed in getting rid off one simple food storage option.

Then  it will change mechanics in refrigerator - the food in refrigerator gets spoiled at fast rate till the temperature of this food drops to 2C. You need to take into calculation all mass /temperature exchange also. So the new coming into the fridge food may warm up already fridged food and get it spoiled.

Atmosuits, I am happy it made you thinking for details.

It was no brainer for me but I did not feel to dig into that:

1.  Yes, you need spare ones, I have just added 2 more, no precise calculation is needed. It may be more scientific for some - like calculate the distance from the checkpoint to the building to repair or move repair unit closer to the checkpoint. You may run without any spares, it will be just some small windows of downtime for suit repairs (I have priority 9 for repair and suit storage module - it is done quickly and does not create much downtime in my case).

2. That one is easy - you clearly want to avoid situation when you cannot get access to the suit repair unit if the last suit is down; so it is before the check point.

3. You will not squeeze the forge into the rocket - it is simply not necessary but you may have spare materials to build one at the destination point + some spare parts for repair or one-two extra suits. More like a micromanagement for me that a real strategic decision.

4. Yes, I grow thimble reeds at each asteroid except the niobium one but the main reason is seeds that I use for fish ponds. I extensively use CO2 rockets as taxi and just loaded reeds to the rocket internal bin. 

so I accept your point - it enriched the game for you when you thought and managed all the issues above. I am glad that there are options though and one is to turn it off.

 

[JRup]

3 minutes ago, KonfigSys said:

So the new coming into the fridge food may warm up already fridged food and get it spoiled.

If I recall correctly: powered fridges do not add temperature to existing items, it will only decrease food temperature when above target temperature (2ºC ATM) and preserve the rest. All food items are independent of one another and don't exchange temperature when inside the (again: powered) fridge.

[KonfigSys]

17 minutes ago, JRup said:

If I recall correctly: powered fridges do not add temperature to existing items, it will only decrease food temperature when above target temperature (2ºC ATM) and preserve the rest. All food items are independent of one another and don't exchange temperature when inside the (again: powered) fridge.

you are right; this is how it is now;

I refer how it will be if Klei changes it to accommodate some player requests for food rather than surrounded temperature reference point for spoilage....

[Meltdown]

1 hour ago, GreezyHammer said:

Changing messy code that was written early-on is hard, especially as the game grows larger. Let's keep going!

That's a great way to drown any project in bugs and technical dept. Not something I want to see in ONI's future.

48 minutes ago, KonfigSys said:

It was clarified that it is a surrounding temperature matters rather than the object temperature by Klei. I do not know how difficult and mainly processor consuming to route it to the object temperature.

That sounds weird. If it was the case, you could put food that is frozen below -18C into warm area and it wouldn't count as frozen and begin to spoil immediately. I tried it in sandbox before posting my previous reply - this is clearly not the case. So, food temperature matters and already affects the way refrigerated and frozen effects work. Calculations are already there.

48 minutes ago, KonfigSys said:

The game play will slightly change but not to a major extend - 

you will have spoilage going till the object temperature goes below -18C. So you will always have a bit spoiled food. On another hand, if you move it by conveyor from the cold place it may remain fresh for longer as it may still have frozen temperature. So it will be hydrogen filled storages to drop temperature fast and to very low. And yes, vacuum then will go.

From that example alone we can see that gameplay would change to utilize new refrigeration mechanic rather than using the old solution regardless of the changes. New solution would require using multiple components and designing a system to solve the problem. IMO this indicates healthy, engaging design. This would push players (especially newer ones) to experiment, think, and perfect their builds. I think thats a great addition to the game. Having a quick solution without drawbacks wouldn't do that.

48 minutes ago, KonfigSys said:

Then  it will change mechanics in refrigerator

The refrigerator already acts as an exception in new mechanic. I don't think that keeping current behavior while making changes to effects of ambient temperature is either hard or hurtful to the rest of the system.

48 minutes ago, KonfigSys said:

so I accept your point - it enriched the game for you when you thought and managed all the issues above. I am glad that there are options though and one is to turn it off.

I'm glad that we came on agreement on this one.

[KonfigSys]

40 minutes ago, Meltdown said:

That sounds weird. If it was the case, you could put food that is frozen below -18C into warm area and it wouldn't count as frozen and begin to spoil immediately. I tried it in sandbox before posting my previous reply - this is clearly not the case. So, food temperature matters and already affects the way refrigerated and frozen effects work. Calculations are already there.

From that example alone we can see that gameplay would change to utilize new refrigeration mechanic rather than using the old solution regardless of the changes. New solution would require using multiple components and designing a system to solve the problem. IMO this indicates healthy, engaging design. This would push players (especially newer ones) to experiment, think, and perfect their builds. I think thats a great addition to the game. Having a quick solution without drawbacks wouldn't do that.

The refrigerator already acts as an exception in new mechanic. I don't think that keeping current behavior while making changes to effects of ambient temperature is either hard or hurtful to the rest of the system.

I have just tested in the sandbox.

Room -9C, CO2, Food +20C -> counted as refrigerated (so only surrounded temperature is taken into consideration, this is what you complain/concern  about)

Room 22C, CO2, Food -100C -> deep frozen; hmm, you are right. 

so it takes food temperature rather than surrounding temperature. When food temperature reached -18C, the status changed to frozen (again the food temperature rather than surrounding).

If you put cold food into warm places, it register food temperature as the reference point

if you put warm food, then it will take surrounding temperature.

Probably the algorithm works like (min(T(object), T(surrounding at the tile)) = RT; if RT< Freeze => status=frozen

So it may not be a bug but just what devs wanted but obviously it should be described/clarified. Like

the reference temperature to determine the food spoilage rate is calculated as a minimum of either food itself or the temperature of the tile which the food is at.

refrigerator is just one small room located in a bigger storage room; if Klei have an exceptional mechanic for it, then it can be kept as it is. 

 

[Hellshound38]

7 hours ago, KonfigSys said:

You are missing the point. 

In multiplayer unless it is a co-op, you compete with others. So any mod can put you in more advanced position in relations to others. Let's say you play a shooter and if you have a mod for invincibility, you spoil a game play for others as they cannot kill you. Using mods, codes, bugs, glitches to gain advantage in multiplayer competitive games may lead to a ban and generally have a negative context. 

In a single player, you do not gain any advantage over others. A game developer has something in mind when they present a game but then players may not like some part of the content and they will change to adapt to what each individual player really likes. So to say it is more customized product. It is a common problem when players do not play like developers envision for their game but this is not a problem as long as players are happy. It normally shows that devs do not know who are their customers and their desires. There is only one wrong way to play a single game, the way if you do not like the game play. 

It is hard to make one model fits all. Generally game devs focus on majority or fan base, or most payable segment in PtW or PtP. There are many cases when you do not need to squeeze all players into one bin, you may simply give various options to satisfy a wider group of players. That what Klei is exactly doing - there are disputes between two groups "for" and "against" some features. You can count how many for and how many against or simply give two option to choose from and then BOTH groups are happy. Unfortunately it is not always possible, you cannot have an option for each game mechanics - so conflict occurs and Klei has to make a thoughtful decision. Luckily there are mods that can correct the situation for the group which lost in the battle. 

In my view it is better to have something that not to have. You can choose use it or not.

Like the case with vacuum (or actually with 100 of other features=bugs reported in the bug report section of the forum). The current situation is; some people are using it and happy; some using it and unhappy but I cannot understand this category at all - just stop using it, and the last one they do not use it and do not care. 

Let' say Klei removes it. Then you have the first group splits to one which will stop using it (not necessary they will gain any satisfaction) and another that will be trying to fix the problem if it is vital for them and they will go for mods; the second group will say - yes, we have done it (they could achieve similar if they did not use vacuum in the first place like the third group) and the third group do not care again.

Generally many things can be corrected by mods, but any developer is not happy with mods just for one main reason - technical. Mods have to be updated regularly especially for the game which is in a fast pace development like the DLC is. As the mods are not a product of the devs you cannot guarantee they will be up to date and they may lead to crashes. So devs get some crash reports because of the mod failures. Also if mods are crashing a game it ruins play experience and players are writing negative comments but in reality devs are not responsible for that.

Also if a big portion of players is using one specific mod then it should be an in-game feature and dev marketing/community manager overlooked the issue. However, if a game has a lot of mods, it does not show it is bad; contrary, it shows the game is very popular and has so many ways to be customized.

There is a big chunk of requests/bug reports related to this problem - bug vs feature disputes. If to follow/fix, we may not see the DLC completed next year or no more new content.

Some complain that ONI does not have an end-game goal, in reality there are so many goals one can set and achieve but this requires some self discipline.

many of these games have co-op mode like DST

when you play co-op you agree with teammates what mods you want to activate.

No you miss the point.

Your drawing a line in the sand. I am not saying its wrong or right, im saying your point is arbitrary.

You did it again in your response too. So now in Co-op its ok but not "competitive"? What if the game has no win conditions, no scoreboard like minecraft? Can you not exploit in minecraft, it can still be played competitively. Does it even need multiplayer to be competitive? What about a single player game with a competitive leaderboard? Exploiting to get to the top of the leaderboard is just as frowned upon.

Your main problem is trying to define exploit as a bad thing done to get a competitive advantage against others. That is literally not what the word means, and choosing to use it in that specific framework is skewing your interpretation. Its complex enough that there are different meaning of the word in different situations. To exploit a worker is to underpay them or overwork them, to benefit unfairly. In computer software as a noun it is a software tool  taking advantage of a software flaw, typically, however  I stress not always for malicious purposes.

Certainly being a computer game we are referring closer to the computer definition. Using more generally to refer to in game actions or methods of taking advantage of a software flaw. There is nothing intrinsically that says you can't exploit software flaws in single player, co-op, or competitive games. Sure it might be more obviously unethical when multiplayer is attached, but regardless it is still exploiting.

That said, I am not against using exploits to achieve desired outcomes; I use them all the damn time in this game.  I would just say that they are still exploits regardless of how you want to justify your own actions.

 

[spkthed]

38 minutes ago, Hellshound38 said:

That said, I am not against using exploits to achieve desired outcomes; I use them all the damn time in this game.  I would just say that they are still exploits regardless of how you want to justify your own actions.

Nobody is missing the point and there is no moral component here for single player games. Contextually, exploit has a pejorative connation when it comes to games. And in most software. You may be correct according to a dictionary but language drifts, and that is not the correct meaning of the term. What you mean to convey is 'you're using a system that my best guess the developers didn't intend to be used that way. To which point - who cares?

In a multiplayer, or competitive game, changing mutually agreed upon rules is different. You can actively ruin someone else's experience with a variety of bad behaviour. You should not do that. In a single player game, none of this matters.

Because language drifts and context and nuance matters, what you *mean* to convey is that we all game a system for our benefit, including using optimal configurations and solutions with a tweak for our own personal preferences and playstyles when we play games. Nobody here will disagree with that, because it's linguistically and semantically correct.

 

[Yunru]

41 minutes ago, Hellshound38 said:

Exploiting to get to the top of the leaderboard is just as frowned upon.

Except, it's not. 

To the point it has it's own entire leader boards in games where it's possible. 

43 minutes ago, Hellshound38 said:

What about a single player game with a competitive leaderboard?

If there is a leaderboard, then it is inherently not single player, even if the leaderboard is the only multilayer component. 

[spkthed]

21 minutes ago, Yunru said:

Except, it's not. 

To the point it has it's own entire leader boards in games where it's possible. 

If there is a leaderboard, then it is inherently not single player, even if the leaderboard is the only multilayer component. 

Taking that concept a step further, how could a game like ONI even *have* a leaderboard. Number of cycles to the tear? Max dupes? Maximum number of rockets taking off at once?

[Sasza22]

We keep arguing about balance, realism and exploits in ONI but i see this situation in a different way. If there is an easy way to circumvent a mechanic by using a simple low tech setup then it looks like an exploit. It makes parts of the game skippable and some tech and structures useless.

Now how hard it is to make a vacuum food storage setup? It`s probably harder than putting down a bunch of fridges in a CO2 pit. But might be easier than cooling that CO2 pit below deep freeze threshold (especially on terra). The thing is that it doesn`t take power when done properly or at least less than a fridge and can store infinite amounts of food in a single tile. It`s actually kinda balanced - hard to say if it`s an exploit or not.

My fix would be: make the food consider only it`s own temperature when on ground but outside temperature when stored in a fridge or ration box. This way vacuum setups will need pre freeezing or multiple containers making them feel less exploity but still possible.

[Clinch]

Thanks for illustrating this, I'm still discovering the changes to food...

Perhaps to prevent this, edibles that have been exposed to vacuum could have a status change that made them less palatable, just reduce them to the lowest morale tier?

I've always 'suffered' through food excess and loss, and I like the change towards the 'more realistic' - if you're gonna need monstrous amounts of food, there should be overhead for producing *and* preserving it.

Can the existing food production buildings be modded to reflect this sort of thing? Pickling usually gives things a longer shelf life than grilling, but that's not reflected currently :P

[GreezyHammer]

On 5/22/2021 at 11:15 AM, Meltdown said:

That's a great way to drown any project in bugs and technical dept. Not something I want to see in ONI's future.

Good point, agreed.

[cpy]

Food should release CO2,ethanol and natural gas in vacuum, so you won't have it that easy. Since there is no sterile atmosphere bacterias are free to eat your food and release this stuff.

[space glider]

nerfed by last update. vacuum not give deep freezing

[spkthed]

I HOPE YOU ALL ARE HAPPY.

:D