[Spaced Out! Update] - 459378

[spkthed]

I find the 'I don't like spaced out I want vanilla' complaints both silly and mildly annoying because what's really being said is 'I want new content, I don't want vanilla' paired with a 'I want the vanilla' as the ask (but really a complaint/demand). I think you nailed it mario.

To your point babba I think if it was framed like that people would be a lot less forceful in a response. 

I also wish that people would be more respectful of dev time and priorities. We play the game but remember this is also a team's artistic vision. It's okay to ask for features, note what we like and what we don't, but complaining about stuff or demanding that they do something or the game is unplayable or something - that's really weird and gross to me. We're all in this for what, $25-40 so far? For contrast, we've given Klei about the price of a nice meal out or a movie at a nice theater with a beer. With any of these examples that exchange doesn't entitle us to a lifetime of servitude.

Let's not be Karens - respect goes both ways.

[Gurgel]

1 hour ago, marioespinho said:

What we can't have is a million options to please every single minimal wish people have just because some don't like something in the game.

Pretty much. Especially the people that blow tiny things all out of proportion. Probably because they have had some success with the drama-queen approach in life. Nobody likes complainers though.

[spkthed]

2 hours ago, pether said:

Spaced Out focuses mostly on changes in space travel. You cannot have it without new rockets and those imply there are new worlds to colonise. I don't think there will be way to have vanilla rocketry experience with the DLC enabled. But if you want enjoy big maps - what is exactly wrong with current solution? In base game you had POI items that you had to ignore, teleport is just like it....

I like this thought too. Continuing it, if we could destruct POI's natively... sounds like that would be a fair compromise for all the preferences

[pether]

1 hour ago, marioespinho said:

There is still a whole lot of vanilla feel outside of map exploration in ONI, the game isn't fundamentally changed, so i can't get behind your expansion logic. 

I guess that those people prefer to have single map, not to micro-manage several smaller colonies. I'd say the main thing in ONI - base building and managing made a spectacular piruette, encouraging players to sustain several colonies with different resources available. I love the concept, but I am able to understand why somebody doesn't like it, while they love nuclear stuff. I can understand why somebody would like to have single, big map, with no need to colonise space to have access to the nuclear. And no, "just dont play it" doesn't solve anything.

1 hour ago, marioespinho said:

Hell, if we got the same thing as before, with minor modifications, it wouldn't even make sense to charge for it, when they didn't for any of the other updates.

Depends on a company. KLEI is so cool they wouldn't charge for minor changes like Meeps Recreation or Bhani Automation Packs. Others would sell it for heavy money, adding also plenty skin-only DLCs to buy. And to be honest, I love ONI and respect KLEI so much that I would buy it. But since I'd buy it due to respect that KLEI doesn't sell it, it doesn't really make a sense, does it?

1 hour ago, marioespinho said:

What most people need to understand is that the game can't be moulded to everyone's wishes. This is the Spaced Out content, it's optional and it's revealed. If you like it, cool, buy it and enjoy. If you don't, cool, don't buy it and stick to what you like. What we can't have is a million options to please every single minimal wish people have just because some don't like something in the game.

Well, of course you are right. But it seems easy to allow players to start on well-known big asteroids without any need to space travel. And by easy I mean - KLEI just did that, only little tweaks here and there are needed. And I believe that opitions are cool and I would welcome as much of them as KLEI will wish to give us

21 minutes ago, spkthed said:

I find the 'I don't like spaced out I want vanilla' complaints both silly and mildly annoying because what's really being said is 'I want new content, I don't want vanilla' paired with a 'I want the vanilla' as the ask

I read it more like "I really love X in the DLC, but I don't enjoy Y in it. Can we please have option to enjoy X without being force to Y?" It's like you go to the restaurant and ask "I'd like to have hamburger, but please, can you not add pickle to it as I am alergic to it?". Nobody would say "just don't order hamburger if you hate picles, what's the problem" or "go back to eating dirt from mushbar and stop complaining"

24 minutes ago, spkthed said:

Let's not be Karens - respect goes both ways.

Nothing more to add, great summary

14 minutes ago, spkthed said:

I like this thought too. Continuing it, if we could destruct POI's natively... sounds like that would be a fair compromise for all the preferences

Oh yeah, un-deconstructable POI is source of all evil and suffering in the game, including starvation, suffocation and zombie spores...

Please, just let us get rid of the junk...

[kerosene]

I would like the option to not have any teleporters on the map.

[Ranah]

1 hour ago, babba said:

There is fans of the teleporters and non-fans

Teleporters seem like something that should be map dependent. something that allows for earlier multiple colonies mostly in easier clusters so beginners can get used to it before they have to deal with rockets. 

[babba]

I think Klei`s intentions are good, its just that ONI ships need cool water to travel.

Gemi kazaları

  DLC Classic Terra ( my opinion )

Edited April 10, 2021 by babba

[evilcat19xx]

Do you guys think there will be more World Gen changes? 

[Gurgel]

28 minutes ago, evilcat19xx said:

Do you guys think there will be more World Gen changes? 

Definitely. This is just the first attempt and obviously needs tuning. 

[pether]

40 minutes ago, evilcat19xx said:

Do you guys think there will be more World Gen changes? 

In BIG world - 100% sure. If not in the current map, there will be new ones added for sure

In small worlds - quite possible, they just changed height to allow more rockets to fly, it might change in the future. 

[marioespinho]

5 hours ago, pether said:

I guess that those people prefer to have single map, not to micro-manage several smaller colonies. I'd say the main thing in ONI - base building and managing made a spectacular piruette, encouraging players to sustain several colonies with different resources available. I love the concept, but I am able to understand why somebody doesn't like it, while they love nuclear stuff. I can understand why somebody would like to have single, big map, with no need to colonise space to have access to the nuclear. And no, "just dont play it" doesn't solve anything.

Well, not everyone can have everything they want. Nuclear is one of the selling points of the DLC, so in order to have it, one has to accept the other changes too, it is what it is. Like in any DLC content in any game, if we want to play it, we have to see everything it brings, and accept it all. Choosing and picking only what we like doesn't happen in any DLC of any game, so it shouldn't be any different in this one.

5 hours ago, pether said:

Depends on a company. KLEI is so cool they wouldn't charge for minor changes like Meeps Recreation or Bhani Automation Packs. Others would sell it for heavy money, adding also plenty skin-only DLCs to buy. And to be honest, I love ONI and respect KLEI so much that I would buy it. But since I'd buy it due to respect that KLEI doesn't sell it, it doesn't really make a sense, does it?

They could have, and i would have supported them too, but if they didn't charge for the minor ( and i use minor veeeeery loosely here ) updates, the paid content would have to be bigger in order to not have any backlash. So any payed DLc would have to have some gameplay impact, like we got on Rimworld with the Royalty DLc, wich also didn't change the way the game is played on a fundamental level, but still introduced massive elements to the game.

5 hours ago, pether said:

Well, of course you are right. But it seems easy to allow players to start on well-known big asteroids without any need to space travel. And by easy I mean - KLEI just did that, only little tweaks here and there are needed. And I believe that opitions are cool and I would welcome as much of them as KLEI will wish to give us

I haven't played since this last update, so i have no idea how the big asteroid is set. But, if you ask me, if the big asteroid has everything one needs like the vanilla ones, then there is little to no point in even going to space, wich takes away from the whole DLC.

 

[babba]

22 minutes ago, marioespinho said:

...

I haven't played since this last update, so i have no idea how the big asteroid is set. But, if you ask me, if the big asteroid has everything one needs like the vanilla ones, then there is little to no point in even going to space, wich takes away from the whole DLC.

I made 2 excursions on fast forward speed within DLC Classic Terra, only digging and building ladders as fast as possible. On the first ~8 minutes excursion I found 1x hot 110 Celsius water source, on the 2nd ~20 minutes excursion I found nothing - No renewable resource. If someone spent some hours in a DLC Terra Classic map, screenshots would be welcome

Edited April 10, 2021 by babba

[pether]

31 minutes ago, marioespinho said:

Well, not everyone can have everything they want. Nuclear is one of the selling points of the DLC, so in order to have it, one has to accept the other changes too, it is what it is. Like in any DLC content in any game, if we want to play it, we have to see everything it brings, and accept it all. Choosing and picking only what we like doesn't happen in any DLC of any game, so it shouldn't be any different in this one.

I will totally understand if KLEI would say "OK guys, say what you want but we will NOT make 2 tech trees just because you don't want to use DLC features". Such request would be absurd. But Having big map not to be forced for space travel doesn't seem impactfull enough not to let this happen and I can see why some people would like to see it happen, so - why not?

34 minutes ago, marioespinho said:

But, if you ask me, if the big asteroid has everything one needs like the vanilla ones, then there is little to no point in even going to space, wich takes away from the whole DLC.

AFAIR it has terra start and multiple slime/caustic/wasteland biomes, with oil and lava on the bottom. If it had radioactive biome too, one could pretty-much enjoy the non-space DLC half, if they really hate space travels. If it is doable, and easy, why not? I wouldn't enjoy it, but if others do...?

[furytale]

45 minutes ago, marioespinho said:

But, if you ask me, if the big asteroid has everything one needs like the vanilla ones, then there is little to no point in even going to space, wich takes away from the whole DLC.

 

Even small terra asteroid can be played like vanilla, 1 dreko and some iron ore is all you "need". From that you have atmo suits, plastic, steel, sour gas boiler, lox. Second (teleport) asteroid is optional.

Big terra asteroid is even easier, you have some oil right there. You'll need space travel for space stuff just like vanilla. Oh and for science, but you don't have to travel anywhere. So it's all the same, DLC or not, except resource list - it was bad, now it's bad in a different way.

[Gurgel]

2 hours ago, babba said:

I made 2 excursions on fast forward speed within DLC Classic Terra, only digging and building ladders as fast as possible. On the first ~8 minutes excursion I found 1x hot 110 Celsius water source, on the 2nd ~20 minutes excursion I found nothing - No renewable resource. If someone spent some hours in a DLC Terra Classic map, screenshots would be welcome

I have played one for 3 hours or so and I have looked at one in debug. It seems you have 2 cold steam and 1 saltwater geyser and also an oil source assured. There seem to be 3 small volcanoes assured as well. In addition, on my longer try I had 2 nat gas vents and on the debug one I had a chlorine vent.

All I had on the 2nd asteroid via teleporter was the oil source. That strikes me as unfinished. 

The map is about 3.5 screens wide and very high, probably the same as in the base game, with the printer being very high up, probably at 80% of the height or so. 

All in all, it feels very much like the base-game "Terra" with a far more limited geyser selection. For me this works, especially if they add some of the other base game starting worlds in the same way.

Edited April 10, 2021 by Gurgel

[babba]

Great review, thanks @Gurgel 

What temperature is the saltwater geyser and could you kindly attach a zoomed out thermo shot of it and its surroundings? 

I can't remember...Did we have basic metal volcanos in the vanilla base game?

I would find a gold volcano useful and I would welcome 1 additional cold water source...Or a Swamp map as dlc classic + base game world traits + base game regolith  I think not being able to select vanilla base game world traits for Terra dlc classic really gets me - It's this feeling of having less than before ( dlc vs vanilla).

For those who want to play without Teleporters, Klei could just add an spawn deactivation option and players still could visit that 2nd asteroid via rockets.

Edited April 10, 2021 by babba

[n_t_p]

[babba]

New content is always welcome

Klei is listening, they considered adding oil/nat gas + big map to the dlc which I find great ( and appropriate/needed ) . Either they have completed their plans for regolith/meteors or they are still work on such ( or other related ) implementation changes and are still toying around with ideas and perhaps want to cram in the last forum user feedback about it.

I would love radioactive regolith + also DLC Classic Swamp + whatever Klei is currently working on in terms of world generation traits and new worlds. I always wondered what is keeping Klei from adding a minus -10 Celsius geyser to Terra, as its a nice way for beginners to have an ice source by starting a simple ice factory. Swamp also often has the AETN directly in or near the player spawn start position + gigatons of available ice. Some forumistas have requested renewable Uranium and asked Klei to make radioactivity more dangerous, I also miss basic metal renewables in Terra and for me it is still a hot dessert in its current condition ( in the base game Terra it was possible to select "Frozen core" ). I find the default Swamp map like licking ice cream in a cool lagoon oasis in comparison - Everybody has their preferences and opinions.

@Gurgel has raised good points in his review, also about the 2nd spawn map. If people write what they want, how they want it and why they want it...Then Klei may pickup on the feedback. Keep it coming

Edited April 11, 2021 by babba

[Gurgel]

1 hour ago, babba said:

What temperature is the saltwater geyser and could you kindly attach a zoomed out thermo shot of it and its surroundings? 

Sorry, I deleted that save. But I believe it was a standard 95C one.

[CheeseGromit]

5 hours ago, marioespinho said:

... if the big asteroid has everything one needs like the vanilla ones, then there is little to no point in even going to space ...

This kind of describes my experience with the game. I had never touched space before the DLC. Mostly because I restart a lot and enjoy the early game discovery. Partly because I haven't developed skills and strategies to make a stable long-term base. So I never needed to, and never got far enough into the game for space.

I purchased the DLC almost purely to support the game. I was never sure the space focus would appeal to me since I'd never tried it. I've now used a rocket. I needed one to get a resource I wanted. I can still count the number of times I've been to space on one hand though.

I'm still not sold on the rocket expereince yet, so far it's more of a hassle than a fun mechanic. I could see myself sticking to the first two teleporter linked planets, even in the spaced out start, since I like the smaller planets. They might not have everything I need but I can still have fun with that.

[marioespinho]

11 hours ago, pether said:

I will totally understand if KLEI would say "OK guys, say what you want but we will NOT make 2 tech trees just because you don't want to use DLC features". Such request would be absurd. But Having big map not to be forced for space travel doesn't seem impactfull enough not to let this happen and I can see why some people would like to see it happen, so - why not?

AFAIR it has terra start and multiple slime/caustic/wasteland biomes, with oil and lava on the bottom. If it had radioactive biome too, one could pretty-much enjoy the non-space DLC half, if they really hate space travels. If it is doable, and easy, why not? I wouldn't enjoy it, but if others do...?

If one hates space travel, so i assume they will still hate it when the time comes to get the high tier materials, while wanting everything on one asteroid, then why is that person playing Spaced Out in the first place?

I have no problem with it being implemented, but i really hope it it AFTER the new content is present and balanced, because working on a funcional vanilla map in DLC takes away time and resources from the new stuff that it brought, since what those players want is basically vanilla with extra nuclear and grub grubs. More options are never bad, but not urgent at all, and new content has to be a priority over players that bought the DLC, don't really want the DLC, but want to play the DLC without the DLC elements.

And those people need to learn how to be patient, and stop coming to the forums, patch after patch, to complain about missing features or little things thay dont like.

10 hours ago, furytale said:

Even small terra asteroid can be played like vanilla, 1 dreko and some iron ore is all you "need". From that you have atmo suits, plastic, steel, sour gas boiler, lox. Second (teleport) asteroid is optional.

Big terra asteroid is even easier, you have some oil right there. You'll need space travel for space stuff just like vanilla. Oh and for science, but you don't have to travel anywhere. So it's all the same, DLC or not, except resource list - it was bad, now it's bad in a different way.

I think space was pretty much non-existant in vanilla. In Spaced Out it feels relevant again and every colony i make takes much more time until it's on "auto-pilot" and i run out of relevant things to do. I don't think it was bad, it was just bland and uninteresting when compared to what we have now.

 

[sakura_sk]

On 4/10/2021 at 3:46 AM, yopyop6 said:

But I have another one  for you

It seems there are more of that 

Spoiler

It gets interesting when you spawn a dupe

And then... build a little around unfortunate Nikola so he doesn't die...

And then (after overcoming glitchiness) you could have a "Nikola looking through the veil" effect 

 

 

Edited April 11, 2021 by sakura_sk
one image too much

[babba]

6 hours ago, marioespinho said:

If one hates space travel, so i assume they will still hate it when the time comes to get the high tier materials, while wanting everything on one asteroid, then why is that person playing Spaced Out in the first place?

...

Maybe I have overlooked it. Did some state that they hate space travel ?

I, for example, love space travel - The main issue with the vanilla game was that space was too hard to reach and master, which Klei also admitted in past communications and then defined this problem as dlc to-work-on goal.

Someone wrote that sugar ( enables easy simple rocket start ) is missing in dlc terra classic, I find this is another valid (renewable?) resource spawn request. From my point of view these kind of player requests are to satisfy those which like to work on a "strong" base,without worrying about other asteroid connections and resource dependencies, and for players which want to design their own lovely base in peace with not too much big worries.

From my point of view Klei is able to repair and change broken spawn locations, spawn designs, spawn content ( getting true cold water geysers/basic metal volcanos in easy classified start maps ) and spawn errors which have been raised in various posts and threads - This includes fixing faults like teleporters leading in to space or lava + optionally being able to deactivate the teleporter spawning in the world setup stage. As others have pointed out in this or other threads, there is still lots of displacement issues on other asteroids - Is see this all as a part of a cleanup and fix process, on what spawns where and how.

I very much hope that Klei lets rockets fly their entire flight path through a map in the future, as rocket launches are the beginning of my space travel and they currently break my immersion as they warp away/disappear after lifting off for a short distance through the map. Also all the player rocket port and cargo complaints still need to be worked on by Klei.

Future genetics content hopefully enables somehow to re-integrate/revive extinct critters in to a map, this also can help beginners.

Anybody who has used the editor at least once is already a "pro" in my eyes, using the editor is not what most regular customers do ( as a guess ). There is a lot of players which would like to have an easy start map on asteroids, on maps which Klei defines as "easy", with conditions "ideal": "Terra" and "Swamp". A certain portion of these kind of players either do not visit this or the Steam forum at all or only read, but often never post.

One can analyze the reviews in detail to point various things out, here are the 2 current situation screenshots.

To finalize... I like to fly out to space for 2 reasons: To aquire high level materials + to get much more resource stuff to my base, that is my personal play style.

Klei defined "Easy/Ideal" maps should be ( temperature ) easy, especially for beginners and have all the basic materials/fluids the average player likes to toy around with as renewable spawns. IMHO the deeper a player gets in to space, the harder and more challenging resource aquisition and space exploration should become.

The day Regolith/Meteors return, in some form or the other, will be a celebration day for me

Edited April 11, 2021 by babba

[marioespinho]

1 hour ago, babba said:

Maybe I have overlooked it. Did some state that they hate space travel ?

I, for example, love space travel - The main issue with the vanilla game was that space was too hard to reach and master, which Klei also admitted in past communications and then defined this problem as dlc to-work-on goal.

Someone wrote that sugar ( enables easy simple rocket start ) is missing in dlc terra classic, I find this is another valid (renewable?) resource spawn request. From my point of view these kind of player requests are to satisfy those which like to work on a "strong" base,without worrying about other asteroid connections and resource dependencies, and for players which want to design their own lovely base in peace with not too much big worries.

I was replying to the quoted comment, wich mentioned people that could hate space travel.

Well, if you don't have sucrose, you still have CO2 that fills the same purpose as a low tier rocket, right? So instead of requesting what isn't there, why don't those players adapt and play the game how it's supposed to be? To me it just feels that people have some sort of resistance to change, and instead of trying to go out of their comfortable zone a bit, they just complain until they have it "easy" again.

2 hours ago, babba said:

A certain portion of these kind of players either do not visit this or the Steam forum at all or only read, but often never post.

One can analyze the reviews in detail to point various things out, here are the 2 current situation screenshots.

Well, i'll just copypasta some of the negative reviews, so that we can have an ideia of the spaced out release issues:

----------------------------

"I hate this update. It adds very little, don't address the issues before the update and just made the game 10x more annoying to me"

----------------------------

"I do not suggest to buy DLC at its current stage. The original vanilla game is great!!!
If you did not play ONI, just buy the vanilla game. DLC is not ready: there are a lot of bugs - I have "black holes" - game crashes every day. The content is meh and it looks like the devs went the wrong way in spite of feedback from beta testers (the last radioactive update really made me writing the negative feedback). There are some QoL improvements over the vanilla game - more plants and animals, better search menu for materials but all that is negated by:
The starting world is very small and additional (currently 6) asteroids are tiny. If you combine all together, it will be much smaller than the vanilla game world."

----------------------------

"I personally believe it is not worth ~$14 (depending on your country) because if i paid ~$27 for the game itself, then the DLC should come free of charge or at least less than $5. The game is cool but not worth what it costs"

----------------------------

"You ruined my favorite game with a bad DLC.

Plz fix Atmo Suits and research. Why not just add cool stuff? Why change the game?

Will change the review to positive if you at least fix atmo suits."

 

Summing it all up, "Why does this game have a lot of bugs, event though you stated SINCE THE BEGGINING that it was early acess? Also why did you charge for it whan you could have added it to the main game free of charge? Bleh, you made the game harder(different) and i feel 10x more annoyed by it"

To me : Entitlement, refusal to change and complaints about something that is optional. These were some of the "most useful" comments, i didn't scroll down to see all of them.

[babba]

I spent a bit of time just now reading through the negative dlc steam reviews:

- Small maps

- Regular updates require fresh saves

- Game performance

- Bugs and crashes

- The time phase where mods didn`t work

- Some wrote that they struggled with starting resources

- Multi colony micromanagement complaints

Edited April 11, 2021 by babba