Wes rework

[supercook]

4 minutes ago, Lbphero said:

this is already something the speed balloon does, but only for 30 seconds or so.

Oh, I thought it was entirely on par. Consider me proven wrong then!

[ArubaroBeefalo]

7 minutes ago, Lbphero said:

this is already something the speed balloon does, but only for 30 seconds or so.

Can i ask for the numbers? It makes the player fairly faster but idk how much

 

3 hours ago, minespatch said:

People were hoping for balloon weapons and armor

Maybe next april 1st?

They even had the desings for them

[Mysterious box]

14 hours ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

I cant understand how the sanity balloons were easier to make than the armor and sword

Wigfrid mains "what am I chopped liver?"

[Mike23Ua]

Klei says Hounds now aggro onto Wes.

I say Checkmate Klei- Update your game so they STAY Aggro’d on Wes or I’m gonna continue to do this: 

Spoiler

 

[Cheggf]

8 hours ago, HowlVoid said:

I still think his balloons should last a full 8min. In 1 full day you can accomplish so much more.

And Im not disagreeing that his rework is exactly what wes mains wanted not sure why you keep repeating that he is a useful character.

I think every single person on the server getting 8 minutes of walking cane every time they see Wes from day 1 is a bit ridiculous, and with how public server players like to play that would basically be every single person having a permanent walking cane from day 1. Maybe after its current 2 minute duration expires it could lose another stage and became a minor boost like 10% for 6 more minutes.

It's only 5 sanity to craft so its 2 minute duration makes you have to at least kind of acknowledge the sanity penalty. If it lasted 8 minutes that's basically no drain at all.

[HowlVoid]

30 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

I think every single person on the server getting 8 minutes of walking cane every time they see Wes from day 1 is a bit ridiculous, and with how public server players like to play that would basically be every single person having a permanent walking cane from day 1. Maybe after its current 2 minute duration expires it could lose another stage and became a minor boost like 10% for 6 more minutes.

It's only 5 sanity to craft so its 2 minute duration makes you have to at least kind of acknowledge the sanity penalty. If it lasted 8 minutes that's basically no drain at all.

Yeah I like your idea, but saying its a walking cane from day 1 for a whole server is bit of an exaggeration don't you think? We can increase the sanity cost and after 2 min it can start giving diminishing returns, like you suggest. 

Also I kinda already moved on from this idea... After playing with him a bit I don't think he needs any more changes. You've kinda replied to me, what feels like, a whole day later.

[Cheggf]

31 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

Yeah I like your idea, but saying its a walking cane from day 1 for a whole server is bit of an exaggeration don't you think? We can increase the sanity cost and after 2 min it can start giving diminishing returns, like you suggest. 

Also I kinda already moved on from this idea... After playing with him a bit I don't think he needs any more changes. You've kinda replied to me, what feels like, a whole day later.

Uh.... You know this is a forum, right?

[HowlVoid]

7 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

Uh.... You know this is a forum, right?

Doesn't change how I feel. Just letting you know any further discussion would be pointless.

[.]

Tbh I didn't like either, it seems really "simple" but I don't play with him and I'm not gonna play. So I don't really care.

[Mike23Ua]

10 hours ago, Slagger said:

Tbh I didn't like either, it seems really "simple" but I don't play with him and I'm not gonna play. So I don't really care.

Wes is a lot better now by miles..

yes he got nerfed in Hp/Hunger/Sanity.

But- Hunger no longer drains at such a fast rate that he’s a bottomless pit of food consumption. Now 4 measly berries tops his hunger off.

Health needed to be lower for him to maintain his status as “challenge” character

Sanity is meh.. a single green cap eaten raw and he’s fully insane, a few flowers plucked or cooked caps and he’s sane again.

A lot of what’s supposed to be “Bad” about him is now actually “Easy to Manage”

What I mean by that is he has lower stats- but because of his lower stats they’re much easier to keep topped off constantly.

He has less resistance to heating & freezing but because of that he is also easier to warm up/ cool down when he needs to.

The one thing that seems like a legit downside with no upsides is being more likely to be struck by lightning.. that one seems like it was added just for LoL’s or to put further importance upon lightning rods/Eyebrella either way it’s probably going to become more annoying then it is fun or challenging.

People claim he mines/chops slower but I don’t see him being too different from Wendy’s Mine/chop speed.. so I can careless.

He also shares roughly the same amount of hits to kill something with Wendy (without Abigails help) it takes Wes 4 hits with a spear to kill a regular normal spider.

Klei actually managed to make Wes fun to play as.. and that’s saying something, because prior to his rework he was just a much worse version of “current” Wilson, now he’s fun with unique abilities.

Im sure not everyone’s going to share in my opinion: but I really feel like they did a excellent job on his refresh.

[ZeRoboButler]

Im surprised that wes is legitimately being discussed to be honest, I was under the impression that this was just a the big april fools joke.

Klei got to have a laugh about it, and got to draw new balloons, but thats about it.

He seems kinda like a relic of ds, not like its a bad thing, he kinda is the joke character.

"WeS iS BeAhSt" being shouted frequently, and people using him for the butt of a joke in videos adds to the idea.

If any character where to be changed and have it be a joke rather than a legit rework, I think I can live with it being wes.

If anything I just hope we get reworks for other characters and that this does take away from the planned 3 we where told about.

[Muzarello]

Idk if I like this rework, but I don't even play wes that much, I had a world where I survived some years as him and changed character cuz I had had plenty of slow gameplay, as I play alone some characters aren't as fun for me. Wes in particular was not very fun alone or together , but now I can see how a Wes can help a team a lot, even if it's for seconds of fun.
Things might change in the future, I kinda like how wes didn't get any overpowered power that makes changing to play him super viable, instead he got some nice fun things that can help the group in the early game at least.

The thing is, still a challenge, even more now that he can be one-shoted by some bosses, one slip and it's over.

[Cheggf]

2 hours ago, ZeRoboButler said:

Im surprised that wes is legitimately being discussed to be honest, I was under the impression that this was just a the big april fools joke.

Klei got to have a laugh about it, and got to draw new balloons, but thats about it.

He seems kinda like a relic of ds, not like its a bad thing, he kinda is the joke character.

"WeS iS BeAhSt" being shouted frequently, and people using him for the butt of a joke in videos adds to the idea.

If any character where to be changed and have it be a joke rather than a legit rework, I think I can live with it being wes.

If anything I just hope we get reworks for other characters and that this does take away from the planned 3 we where told about.

How is this a joke rework?

[pedregales]

This re-work was... whatever. It is an overall nerf across the board for a character that was already pretty bad to begin with:

• Lower stats across the board. And I mean, much lower stats. Fighting giants will be a headache in order to keep his sanity and hunger high enough for the whole duration (which takes longer playing as Wes, as he hits less hard than the rest of characters).
• No longer has faster hunger drain. Super nice. Oh... but he now has a smaller stomach. Yeah... his hunger drain is faster now if we go by the wiki's info on hunger. With normal hunger rate, characters lose 75 hunger per in-game day, or Wes new hunger stat. Single-player Wes with x1.25 hunger rate losses roughly 94 hunger per in-game day, or 83% of his 113 hunger stat.
• They removed the 100 balloon limit! Oh... But now he has half his sanity. To be fair, this was a pointless change either way.
• Vulnerable to overheating, freezing, lightning, aggro mobs more easily... I don't mind this bunch of downsides all that much. But when combined with the other changes they make Wes much less forgiving to play. More of a "newb trap".
• Takes longer to mine, chop, and hammer. Just one question: Why?

This re-work is so weird that I am almost positive it is an April's Fools joke despite it being functional. Benefits?

• 5 sanity cost walking cane. Super nice, but super easy to replace. Only advantage this gives is in high density multiplayer games were getting a walrus tusk for everyone might not be possible due to RNG. Although I expect a nerf to the walking cane after seeing this change...
• Life vest. For those rare occasions you want to venture to sea. Which makes it risky seeing the stats of Wes.
• A nice balloon hat that protects Wes from lightning and a balloon party that heals sanity.

Overall. The character is relatively the same. But looking more in-depth, the character is much worse as he is pretty much unable to do anything solo unless you play perfectly. Just a single mistake is deadlier than before. This mistakes include forgetting to prepare for a hound attack or a thunderstorm.

As expected, the re-work didn't change my interest in ever trying the character (I mean, I did try him before and also now, just to make sure, but the overall feeling is the same and I won't use him again anytime soon).

I also feel this re-work and the pantomimed tools skin set were a lost opportunity:

• Wes is a mime. But his in-game skills are more similar to those of a party clown.
• Instead of skins, the pantomimed tools should have been tools Wes could make and use for 5 sanity (keeping up the theme). They would take slightly longer to get the job done than normal tools and would dissipate after a quarter of an in-game day (2 minutes), or after being dropped to the ground.

This would make Wes far more forgiving early game, and even mildly QoL useful late-game as he could just sacrifice 5 sanity for a quick hammer to get rid of a structure instead of having to go get the hammer somewhere or the materials.

[Cheggf]

3 minutes ago, pedregales said:

Vulnerable to overheating, freezing, lightning, aggro mobs more easily... I don't mind this bunch of downsides all that much. But when combined with the other changes they make Wes much less forgiving to play. More of a "newb trap".

Noob trap? His character perks are listed as

Quote

Can't talk
Practices Balloonomancy
Is not a skilled fighter or worker
Has trouble staying alive

Saying that is a noob trap is like saying a sign next to a fire pit that says "Standing in this will kill you" is a noob trap.

5 minutes ago, pedregales said:

This re-work is so weird that I am almost positive it is an April's Fools joke despite it being functional.

How is this a joke rework? "Weird" doesn't mean anything.

[pedregales]

1 minute ago, Cheggf said:

Noob trap? His character perks are listed as

[...]

Saying that is a noob trap is like saying a sign next to a fire pit that says "Standing in this will kill you" is a noob trap.

Sadly, the first 2 perks doesn't mean anything to a new player (what does talking have to do with the game? What is balloonomancy?). And the last 2 perks might indicate he is a support character in some way (if he is not a fighter, he has to be a support, no?). I mean (and looking at it from the perspective of a new player, like I was at some point) the character has to be able to do something, right? Well... not in this case. He is just a joke character.

5 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

[...]

How is this a joke rework? "Weird" doesn't mean anything.

I already explained what "weird" means in my comment. It is in the nice pretty list just before that line. I don't need to explain what is "weird" if I already made a nice pretty list explaining what is "weird". But I will entertain you anyway.

Basically the whole re-work is a contradiction of itself:

• Removal of faster hunger drain, but reduced hunger stat. And at the end of the day Wes loses the totality of his hunger points faster than before.
  • We are also ignoring that he takes longer to do most actions: chopping, mining and hammering; so at the end of the day you waste more time doing those actions, and also lose more hunger doing them.
• Removal of 100 balloon limit, but reduced sanity. Before you could blow 30 balloons before you needed to recover your sanity, now you can only blow 15 balloons before you need to heal your sanity. The overall cost is the same though, but you have to waste more time filling your sanity.
• The party balloon is not strong enough to make Wes a sanity support.
• And the speedy balloon, while nice, is not good enough to make Wes a decent support.

 

[Cheggf]

4 minutes ago, pedregales said:

Sadly, the first 2 perks doesn't mean anything to a new player (what does talking have to do with the game? What is balloonomancy?). And the last 2 perks might indicate he is a support character in some way (if he is not a fighter, he has to be a support, no?). I mean (and looking at it from the perspective of a new player, like I was at some point) the character has to be able to do something, right? Well... not in this case. He is just a joke character.

I already explained what "weird" means in my comment. It is in the nice pretty list just before that line. I don't need to explain what is "weird" if I already made a nice pretty list explaining what is "weird". But I will entertain you anyway.

Basically the whole re-work is a contradiction of itself:

• Removal of faster hunger drain, but reduced hunger stat. And at the end of the day Wes loses the totality of his hunger points faster than before.
  • We are also ignoring that he takes longer to do most actions: chopping, mining and hammering; so at the end of the day you waste more time doing those actions, and also lose more hunger doing them.
• Removal of 100 balloon limit, but reduced sanity. Before you could blow 30 balloons before you needed to recover your sanity, now you can only blow 15 balloons before you need to heal your sanity. The overall cost is the same though, but you have to waste more time filling your sanity.
• The party balloon is not strong enough to make Wes a sanity support.
• And the speedy balloon, while nice, is not good enough to make Wes a decent support.

 

So it's a joke rework because you don't understand why they would remove the faster hunger drain and replace it with lower max hunger? I guess that's to be expected from someone who thinks "Has trouble staying alive, bad at fighting and gathering" would somehow mean that they're good at whatever "support" is, especially despite the fact that they have no tips whatsoever related to this mysterious "support".

[pedregales]

9 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

So it's a joke rework because you don't understand why they would remove the faster hunger drain and replace it with lower max hunger? I guess that's to be expected from someone who thinks "Has trouble staying alive, bad at fighting and gathering" would somehow mean that they're good at whatever "support" is, especially despite the fact that they have no tips whatsoever related to this mysterious "support".

This is the worst argument you could have used to discredit my comment as it shows you didn't even bother to read what I wrote. Either that or you are trolling and I felt for the bait. Oh well, whatever the case may be, serves me right for giving you the benefit of doubt.

As a final note, that is my opinion of the whole re-work and I will just leave it at that.

[Cheggf]

16 minutes ago, pedregales said:

This is the worst argument you could have used to discredit my comment as it shows you didn't even bother to read what I wrote. Either that or you are trolling and I felt for the bait. Oh well, whatever the case may be, serves me right for giving you the benefit of doubt.

As a final note, that is my opinion of the whole re-work and I will just leave it at that.

If anyone is trolling it's the person who thinks this is a joke rework because they removed the max balloon limit but lowered his max sanity. Those aren't even slightly related to eachother. Do you think it's impossible to regain sanity or something? He can only blow a total of 15 balloons then he's permanently insane forever and just dies to horrors? He could never reach the cap of 100 without regaining sanity, even before his sanity was lowered he could only blow at best 22 balloons.

[wigfrids hat]

28 minutes ago, pedregales said:

This is the worst argument you could have used to discredit my comment as it shows you didn't even bother to read what I wrote. Either that or you are trolling and I felt for the bait. Oh well, whatever the case may be, serves me right for giving you the benefit of doubt.

As a final note, that is my opinion of the whole re-work and I will just leave it at that.

as off as it sounds cheggf isn't trolling. your reasons aren't actually founded on anything solid or really all that sensible. i mean, you do you and all but you really have no idea what you are on about. though for sure you might try and actually play with him some, for 20 sanity you can give you + 3 other nearby players 20 sanity meaning you get yours back AND you get to have a way to conjure up 60 more out of thin air to give to your group which is amazing

[Mike23Ua]

And I’ll fight till my last breath to have him get a balloon (or 3) that have to be tied together so he can temporarily (for a few seconds long enough to float over most small to mid sized gaps of water) and can give those balloons to other players.

they’re only useful for a few tiles before you touch down and have to bounce again, Fortnite has Balloons that do this, this unknown weird mobile zombie game has balloons that do this: 

Spoiler

Mary Poppins movie & tons of Looney Tunes cartoons do this...

I would really love to know why the ONE Character in the game who deals with balloons... does not have a power like this?

If Klei feels it’ll make Wes too Op fine: Anytime Wes uses the balloons they “pop” after use and he crashes to the ground with a groggy stun for a few seconds.

For all NON-Wes players their balloons just lose air and they land safely.

Similar to how Horizon is the only character in Apex Legends that does not take “Stun Damage” from high jumps.

 

[Superlucas1231]

On 4/2/2021 at 2:48 AM, Cheggf said:

and Webber who literally doesn't do anything fullstop

Bro we already got blue-balled on his rework you don't need to call out us Webber mains like that

[ArubaroBeefalo]

7 hours ago, pedregales said:

But looking more in-depth, the character is much worse as he is pretty much unable to do anything solo unless you play perfectly.

Isnt it the point of playing wes?

7 hours ago, pedregales said:

They removed the 100 balloon limit! Oh... But now he has half his sanity. To be fair, this was a pointless change either way

Pointless for you but for people who want to use it for decoration (or to make high time cost traps) is one of the best changes

[QuartzBeam]

10 hours ago, pedregales said:

The party balloon is not strong enough to make Wes a sanity support.

In multiplayer, Party Balloons are an infinite source of free sanity, because they scale with both number of confetti clouds and number of players in the clouds.

Each Party Balloon costs 5 sanity to make. With only 1 player (Wes), Party Balloons restore 5/10/15/17.5/20 sanity across 10 seconds, the sanity regen going up 1 level for each balloon past the first. So it's not much to write home about, especially since you get diminishing returns with 4+ balloons, but it's nonetheless useful for "storing" sanity to go insane, kill shadows for more sanity, then get the sanity you stored back, resulting in a net increase.

With 2 players, things change a lot. With 2 players, Party Balloons restore 10/15/17.5/20 sanity across 10 seconds, depending on the number of balloons as before. So Wes can "sacrifice" 20 sanity to give both players 20 sanity, nullifying the so-called cost and resulting in a net sanity gain for the teammate. And since the net cost is a nice, round zero, you can repeat this ad infinitum and max out your friends sanity without any need for food or materials.

With 3+ players, things get even crazier... or saner I suppose. With 3 players, Party Balloons restore 15/17.5/20 sanity across 10 seconds instead. So Wes only needs to "sacrifice" 15 sanity to give himself and his allies 20 sanity, meaning that even Wes himself with come out of the confetti cloud with a net sanity gain. And the more players there are, the fewer balloons Wes needs to make and the more sanity he ends up gaining from it all.

[pedregales]

19 hours ago, Cheggf said:

If anyone is trolling it's the person who thinks this is a joke rework because they removed the max balloon limit but lowered his max sanity. Those aren't even slightly related to eachother. Do you think it's impossible to regain sanity or something? He can only blow a total of 15 balloons then he's permanently insane forever and just dies to horrors? He could never reach the cap of 100 without regaining sanity, even before his sanity was lowered he could only blow at best 22 balloons.

I find it fascinating that you decided to pick on that one topic and used it as the core example of my entire comment despite there being many more. That one that I already mentioned has little to no relevance. I called it a pointless change specifically. Either way you are wrong:

Spoiler

He needs the same amount of total sanity to get to 100 balloons (roughly 500 sanity). However, with his original 150 sanity he could blow 30 balloons (not 22, as you mention) before his sanity was completely depleted, now he can blow 15. Meaning, to reach this 100 balloons you need to heal your sanity more often:

• Before: Blow 30 balloons > heal sanity > repeat 3 more times; get a total of 100 balloons.
• Now: blow 15 balloons > heal sanity > repeat 7 times, get a total of 105 balloons).

But sure sanity stat and balloon limit are totally unrelated. Not even slightly related as you mention.

As I said in my first comment in this post (which I assume you have read since you quoted it): this change is pointless. This balloons deal so little damage they are not worth using as traps. They are only for decoration. So there is really no need to keep discussing this specific topic forward

19 hours ago, gaymime said:

as off as it sounds cheggf isn't trolling. your reasons aren't actually founded on anything solid or really all that sensible. i mean, you do you and all but you really have no idea what you are on about. though for sure you might try and actually play with him some, for 20 sanity you can give you + 3 other nearby players 20 sanity meaning you get yours back AND you get to have a way to conjure up 60 more out of thin air to give to your group which is amazing

I will quote the wiki on this (which I linked in my first comment anyway):

Spoiler

Quote

Hunger drains at 9.375 points per minute or 75 points per game day, except for:

• Walani, drain hunger 10% faster (10.3125 or 82.5)
• Warly, drain hunger 20% faster (11.25 or 90)
• Wes (singleplayer only), drain hunger 25% faster (12.46875 or 93.75)
• Warly, drain hunger 33% faster (11.25 or 99.75)
• Wormwood , drain hunger 0%, 33%, 66%, 100% faster (9.375, 11.25, 15.5625, 18.75 or 75, 99.75, 124.6, 150)
• Wolfgang, drain hunger from 0 to 200% faster (from 9.375 to 28.125 or from 75 to 225)
• Wilba in her Werepig form , drain hunger 400% faster (46.875 or 375)

Link: Hunger section - DS Wiki (Fandom)

This means:

• Wes, like any other character with regular hunger drain, now loses 75 hunger every 8 minutes (in-game day). Since he now has 75 hunger his stomach empties after 8 minutes.
• Wes used to lose 93.75 hunger every 8 minutes. Since he used to have 113 hunger, after 8 minutes he would still have some hunger left (19 hunger specifically).

Now Wes needs to eat more often to keep his hunger from killing him. Ergo, it is an overall nerf to his hunger stat.

Fighting giants is also now harder as you have to take special attention to his now diminished stats. He is more frail and dies on fewer hits, he is more likely to starve while fighting giants and he is more likely to be overcome by shadows near huge sanity drains (like most giants).

I already explained the 100 balloon limit. But I also mentioned it is pretty pointless in general.

Now then, can you tell me how my opinion is unfounded? Because sure. At the end of the day it is an opinion, and by it's nature it is subjective. But I believe I have given more than enough data to make it rather "solid".

I do admit "defeat" on the party balloon though. It is still rather mediocre IMO, but is not as bad as I thought. Specially since QuartzBeam mentioned they can be used to store sanity and they scale by number of players.

13 hours ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

[1] Isnt it the point of playing wes?

[2] Pointless for you but for people who want to use it for decoration (or to make high time cost traps) is one of the best changes

[1] Yes, that is the point of playing Wes. But having a character that takes longer to do so many things, while being able to do nothing else well... Yeah, that is the problem Wes has for multi-player, and I expected his re-work (if this is really it) to alleviate it. I am disappointed on the re-work, even if I don't mind how it ended up.

[2] Yeah, I was considering that use (decoration). Even then, it is a pretty pointless change overall, as that could be easily circumvented with a mod, which many decorators use anyway for more decorations. This change is going to be noticeable only for decorators that don't like/use mods (except for a few key mods like geometric placement) and console players. Which I believe should still be a large portion of people.

@QuartzBeam Sadly, the wiki does not have this info, and I haven't found a video about it yet; even then I will try with spawned characters. But if this is true, then it is much better than I thought. Still mediocre, but at least they are useful in multi-player. And it is interesting the idea to use them as sanity storage.

After trying with spawned characters I noticed almost no difference, I got on average 18-20 sanity with 4 party balloons regardless of the amount of spawned characters (between 1 and 3) + Wes in the confetti cloud, even with Wes alone I got roughly that same sanity. Maybe spawned characters don't count since they are not players? Or maybe I couldn't get the spawned characters inside the AoE properly? Regardless, the sanity storage could still be a nice tool for emergencies.