Wes rework

[Cirozacc]

Wath do you thik for new wes i not like this rework i want more option with ballons i prefer a new character and you?

 

 

[RoughCactus69]

What. The. Heck. Is. That.

 

Sincerely,

Cactus

(I would have preferred a Maxwell or Webber update, but whatever.)

[Cirozacc]

This is the bad rework for me...

[Mike23Ua]

-examines Wes Rework- -examines Wigfrid Rework- Ehh... could be worse.

[HowlVoid]

I find this rework, um, unappealing... 

Its like when I ask for an Ice coffee with light ice ( because who want to pay for ice) and when I pull up to the second window that s**t is full of ice. 

Its disappointing and maybe Im a little miffed but in the end it still tastes like coffee and I love coffee. I kinda just accept what I get and I go on with my day. I felt this way about the Wigfrid update too, it was just so uninspired. Even though I agree Wig didn't need anything in regards to a buff.

Also...

The way I see it there are two main Wes player types:

1. Those who enjoy the challenge and insisted, that if anything, he should get nerfed. Well, ask and you shall receive. Most of detriments: low stats, being the preferred chew toy, bad damage, bad foraging, and bad "luck" are countered in multiplayer while making solo harder.

Most of his upsides: Replaceable speed increase, life jacket, sanity balloon, and more tool usage are irrelevant in solo play in the hands of a skilled player.

2.  Those who play multiplayer and are unencumbered by the characters difficulty and enjoy playing with others. They rely on skill rather than gimmicks so his perks are largely irrelevant. 

I think there are some issues though for the multiplayer aspect: 

1. His speed balloons don't last very long. From what I can tell a Wes player is usually a skilled player and they don't have time to sit around base replacing lost/consumed balloons. This forces them to be attached to other players.

2. His crafts are easily made obsolete making him useless (eventually) in multiplayer. He has 0 late game potential which is fine, I mean you picked Wes for the s**ts and giggles, right?

 

 

[Cheggf]

2 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

1. His speed balloons don't last very long. From what I can tell a Wes player is usually a skilled player and they don't have time to sit around base replacing lost/consumed balloons. This means they need to be attached to other players.

2. His crafts are easily made obsolete making him useless (eventually) in multiplayer.

I like his rework, although him being bad at gathering is kind of annoying... I don't think either of those issues you listed are actually issues. He's clearly still supposed to be a challenge character so him not being powerful isn't a problem. Just make speed balloons for yourself and anyone you happen to pass by if you want to be so generous, and have your items lose non-fashion use later on.

Although the weird life jacket thing is the opposite, where it starts out useless (other than fashion) then becomes more useful as you get a boat. 

[HowlVoid]

28 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

I like his rework, although him being bad at gathering is kind of annoying... I don't think either of those issues you listed are actually issues.

Yes, they are not issues to the Wes player himself that's for sure. I'm questioning their practicality in a multiplayer sitting. From what I gather this Wes rework is exactly what people have been asking for and that's for him to contribute more in multiplayer, while not being directly buffed. I'm mostly grasping at straws as I have no real clue if that is Klei's intention or not (making him beneficial in multi) AND if it may clash with how a typical Wes player behaves. If it is, they can just make them last longer on anyone who isn't Wes. My initial standing was me being honest about my personal feelings even if they are irrelevant because I don't play Wes, being human is funny, eh?

Quote

He's clearly still supposed to be a challenge character so him not being powerful isn't a problem.

Yeah, I said it probably appeals to Wes players that want more challenge. Sorry if I sounded sarcastic, but everything I wrote is 100% serious. They hit the nail on the head here, in regards to how his perks make him a hard solo character.

Quote

Just make speed balloons for yourself and anyone you happen to pass by if you want to be so generous, and have your items lose non-fashion use later on.

Although the weird life jacket thing is the opposite, where it starts out useless (other than fashion) then becomes more useful as you get a boat. 

Just realized I didn't write the second Wes type because my brain fools me into thinking I already wrote something. The second Wes player is those who are unencumbered by the characters difficulty and enjoy playing with others. They rely on skill rather than gimmicks so his perks are largely irrelevant. 

[Cheggf]

1 hour ago, HowlVoid said:

Yes, they are not issues to the Wes player himself that's for sure. I'm questioning their practicality in a multiplayer sitting. From what I gather this Wes rework is exactly what people have been asking for and that's for him to contribute more in multiplayer, while not being directly buffed.

I'm honestly really surprised at how much he can help other people now. Despite being the challenge character he can still help people out a lot more than some other characters. If there's a lot of people or it's a single tusk world he can abandon his own walking cane so that others can have it and he uses spalloons, he can give spalloons out as he passes people during early exploration, he can give spalloons out as he's working on the base, he can make sanity balloons to help new players who can't manage their sanity, he can take hound aggro off of incompetent players who can't handle hound aggro, and he can do a few more things.

Sure, it's not much, but most characters only directly benefit themselves and all contribution to the team is indirect such as Wolfgang making Wolfgang faster and stronger, but using those attributes to kill things better and share the loot with the team. And if you compare him to characters like Wilson who literally doesn't do anything except go a bit longer without freezing and Webber who literally doesn't do anything fullstop he sure seems helpful.

I think his rework was meant to make him a weaker character that, to the nooberts that complained about him, appears more useful and friendly to the team. It's not very different to what you think his rework was supposed to do, but the minor change in expectations is enough to change it from a flawed rework to a nearly perfect rework.

[Mike23Ua]

Balloons need more utility, I mean.. why can’t I go in caves gather glow bulb/light bug and put them into an inflated balloon?

oh that’s right... because people want Wes to be challenging and not get innovative fun uses for his balloons- the few he did get are okay but Meh.. could always come up with better.

[Cheggf]

Just now, Mike23Ua said:

Balloons need more utility, I mean.. why can’t I go in caves gather glow bulb/light bug and put them into an inflated balloon?

oh that’s right... because people want Wes to be challenging and not get innovative fun uses for his balloons- the few he did get are okay but Meh.. could always come up with better.

A light source that breaks after a few minutes would be incredibly weak and no one would ever possibly complain about it making him too strong. Some twigs and grass is cheaper and better.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

I cant understand how the sanity balloons were easier to make than the armor and sword

It will be super usefull to have, at the cost of sanity, a weak weapon and armor on demand and more in a multiplayer enviroment

Im okey with the nerf (maybe the gathering materials one is tedious but you can use pickaxe from ruins and moon glass) but in late he still being a nerfed wilson which is sad because his balloonmancy has potential to be more fun. Also the speedy balloon needs a buff of speed to be used in certain situations in late game, just a little more than the cane

 

Edit: idk why klei have problems adding perks to characters. They never go far away of wilson. Isnt an arpg but dont starve characters have potential to have more stuff to be less flat

9 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

-examines Wes Rework- -examines Wigfrid Rework- Ehh... could be worse.

I like Wigfrid rework

[Theukon-dos]

Frankly, I'd say that Wes' rework didn't go far enough. The idea of a challenge character who supports his team by directing all their misfortunes to himself while having very few benefits of his own is really interesting to me. And I'd love it if they removed some of his fluffier downsides (IE reduced work speed, tempeture and grogginess vulnerability) in exchange for more perks that help other players at his own expense.

 

Instead of just getting hit by lightning more often, make him a living lightning rod. Any lightning that would hit a player or structure in X radius hits him instead and doesn't light things on fire.

Maybe if he's close to another player that gets hit, he'll trip and take the damage for them. possibly even taking double damage if they would both get hit.

Maybe effects that target random players will instead always go after Wes.

 

Again, I like the idea they presented with Wes' character refresh and short, I just don't think they went far enough.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

37 minutes ago, Theukon-dos said:

 

Again, I like the idea they presented with Wes' character refresh and short, I just don't think they went far enough.

This

[Cheggf]

39 minutes ago, Theukon-dos said:

Instead of just getting hit by lightning more often, make him a living lightning rod. Any lightning that would hit a player or structure in X radius hits him instead and doesn't light things on fire.

Maybe if he's close to another player that gets hit, he'll trip and take the damage for them. possibly even taking double damage if they would both get hit.

Maybe effects that target random players will instead always go after Wes.

This is like two truths and a lie, except it's two good ideas and a terrible one.

[Theukon-dos]

19 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

This is like two truths and a lie, except it's two good ideas and a terrible one.

Eh. I was just spitballing on the last one. But it gets the point across

[Flip Face]

Klei April 1 is over ... Klei?

Jokes aside, this is what I think of the rework:

Spoiler

Wes now has a balloon preparation guide, where he can inflate various types of balloons.

cool.

Spoiler

Balloon - the same balloons as always, now with a few more shapes.

cool.

Spoiler

Speedy Balloon - A balloon that is too inflated to help make it lighter, but don't let go!

Useful. It does not need a longer duration.

Spoiler

Party balloon - Gather some friends and pop them for a little party.

Beautiful.

Spoiler

Inflatable vest - acts as a life jacket, preventing damage from falling into the ocean.

Useful.

Spoiler

Balloon hat - Just a little bit stylish with some protection from rain and your full balloon outfit.

Beautiful.

Spoiler

Hounds' waves will focus more on Wes than on the other survivors.

Whatever.

Spoiler

It is more susceptible to overheating and freezing.

Whatever.

Spoiler

It takes longer to recover from torpor.

Whatever.

Spoiler

He's more likely to be hit by lightning.

Whatever.

Spoiler

It is less efficient at mining, cutting and hammering.

I didn't even notice.

Spoiler

The tools and weapons used by Wes don't wear out that fast.

I can see the percentage of the ax left over at 1% or a pickaxe wearing out at 2%.

Spoiler

Now he has the lowest stats of all survivors.

Analyzing the rework is understandable, Health, Sanity but, this hunger is in no way equivalent (It doesn't even come close) to the disadvantage that he already had.
It's no longer fun to eat ...

Spoiler

It no longer suffers from an increase in the drain of hunger.

I tried to use mods, to make Wes 'hunger go down faster and even let a Slurper suck my hunger, but Wes' essence was removed here.

Spoiler

Removed the limit of 100 balloons per world.

cool.

Spoiler

Pantomimes have become a collection of skins.

...

The short was great and makes it very clear what you really want for Wes (I think I never understood the character), thanks for the rework, in your live I saw that you thought about it a lot.
But this is not the Wes I met, Maybe I play with him from time to time. I am looking forward to the new character.

That is all. Thanks.

Edit:

On the day, I was upset because Wes's rework seemed to have been done just to please the people who complained about him.

I don't think that anymore. I loved this rework.

[Mike23Ua]

After playing the Re-Reworked Wes for quite a while I like everything about it. 

Lowered Total Health, Sanity, Hunger: These things I HARDLY notice at all- Because if your playing as Wes your goal is to try not to get hit too often anyway.

Decreased resistance to Overheating & Freezing- This ones only a matter of reverse psychology yeah sure he freezes faster, but so does Willow.. AND he heats up faster: Anyone not smart enough to know what to do here weren’t going to survive long as Wes anyway.

Increased Grogginess: I always felt that all characters recovered from being groggy far far too quickly, so it’s good to see a character that has one that isn’t painfully long, or too short that you want it longer.

Being struck by lightning more often is something I don’t understand why we need but okay.. I guess?

Wes’s new Balloon types are quite fun too

Speedy Balloon for Increased Movement Speed.

Party Balloon for Sanity Party.

Balloon Hat for resistance to Wetness effect & to look fashionable.  

Hounds target and attack him more often: Oh Really?? Do they now? I never noticed because they’re also easy to distract: Meaning I easily shake them off by taking them to a nest of Bee’s or Clockwork Rook.

If your playing Wes: You excel at combat by playing the Wendy way: Aka- Not actually get involved in combat and letting other people/things instead do the fighting for you while you get in a few hits & avoid damage.

In other words: Hounds chasing Wes only sounds bad, but these guys so dumb they can be kite’d to pretty much anything 

If Klei’s intentions was to make Wes Harder: Hounds should never De-Aggro off him so easily... or at all.  

Overall I enjoy that he is no longer completely useless. & will actually be playing him from time to time.

[Cheggf]

4 hours ago, Wesbie said:

I didn't even notice.

How did you not notice? He does it so slowly. 

[Aeglefire]

Wes now has a Balloonomancy crafting tab where he can inflate various types of balloons

Balloon - The same old balloons, now with a few more shapes

> Nice, classic Wes

Speedy Balloon - An overly inflated balloon to help become lighter on your feet, but don’t let go!

> Fun, very speedy

Party Balloon - Gather some friends and pop these to host a small party

> Very super fun, also because the balloon is so big!

Inflatable Vest - Acts as a life jacket, preventing damage from falling in the ocean.

> A cool emergency vest out at sea, but it doesn't prevent item loss.

Balloon Hat - Just a little dapper with some rain protection, and completes your balloon outfit

> Artsy little sanity boost hat which I love wearing.

Now has the lowest stats of all the survivors

> 75/75/75, huge and well-deserved nerf to Wes, he's no longer so easy to survive with.

Hounds waves will focus more on Wes than the other survivors.

> Couldn't confirm this was the case, need more hound waves to test.

Is more susceptible to overheating and freezing

> Very good characteristic for more challenging life.

Takes longer to recover from grogginess

> More to do with Wes as a person I guess, he's always tres fatigué? Or to make it more challenging in lunar grotto.

Has a higher chance of being struck by lightning

> Funny.  

Is less efficient at mining, chopping, and hammering

Tools and weapons used by Wes will not wear out as fast

> Ok.

No longer suffers from an increase in hunger drain

> Huge huge buff, but it stops people from blaming Wes for taking food, so it seems ok or ok-ish.

Removed the 100 balloon per world limit

> Time to fill whole island with balloons.

==========================================

Overall, great fun rework.  I think Wes can still do with a lot more balloons and balloon types though, and more balloon items at his disposal in the future.

[minespatch]

1 hour ago, Aeglefire said:

I think Wes can still do with a lot more balloons and balloon types though, and more balloon items at his disposal in the future.

People were hoping for balloon weapons and armor

Maybe next april 1st?

[Flip Face]

2 hours ago, Cheggf said:

How did you not notice? He does it so slowly. 

Sorry I didn't answer earlier. Cut, Mining, etc. it always took and it got more and more boring, but I’ve gotten used to it, and by repeatedly clicking the right mouse button you can speed up the animations a little more. It's not all that stuff but it's not bothering me.

That must be why.

[HowlVoid]

13 hours ago, Cheggf said:

 

I still think his balloons should last a full 8min. In 1 full day you can accomplish so much more.

And Im not disagreeing that his rework is exactly what wes mains wanted not sure why you keep repeating that he is a useful character.

[Minitte]

Waiting for that mecha wes update.

[supercook]

Personally I'd put Wes' stat lineup a smidge higher (say, 100 or so). Make him the worst stat total, but I think Maxwell should always hold being lowest max health and not be tied. Maybe speed balloon lasts a bit longer or at max efficiency is at least better than the walking cane for that very brief period of time. Maybe take a note from the Forge and just give Wes the aggro mechanic of being hated by everything.

Finally, I'd also like a balloon sword. I'm willing to accept it as a reskinned Dark Sword too.

[Primalflower]

11 minutes ago, supercook said:

at max efficiency is at least better than the walking cane for that very brief period of time.

this is already something the speed balloon does, but only for 30 seconds or so.