lore DS(T) Lore Chat

[ArubaroBeefalo]

7 minutes ago, fierysage1 said:

Besides, if that were the case and Wilson was the first one to go missing, how would Maxwell haved reached out to Wilson in the first place?

Im agree with you but maxwell reached wilson because of his radio

[a bin of cake]

Something I've been wondering... while looking at character quotes, WX-78's quote when examining the science machine, calling it "Mother" got me thinking... What if WX-78 was actually built in the Constant using a science machine?

[ArubaroBeefalo]

24 minutes ago, fierysage1 said:

Something I've been wondering... while looking at character quotes, WX-78's quote when examining the science machine, calling it "Mother" got me thinking... What if WX-78 was actually built in the Constant using a science machine?

winona found the blueprint for wx in the human world so i doubt it. Maybe wagstaff has somekind of science machine in his laboratory

[a bin of cake]

17 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

winona found the blueprint for wx in the human world so i doubt it. Maybe wagstaff has somekind of science machine in his laboratory

Ah, I considered the blueprints that Winona found, and thought that, even though Wagstaff had blueprints for WX-78 in the real world, maybe he didn't actually start building WX-78 until he entered the constant. Maybe that's the reason why Wagstaff got sucked into the Constant; he wanted to build WX-78 but couldn't figure out exactly how to achieve the full functionality needed for WX-78 to be completely sentient, and Maxwell caught onto that ambition of Wagstaff's. Maybe WX-78 is a byproduct of Wagstaff's deal with Maxwell?

However, there is a good possibility that Wagstaff had a science machine in his lab, as you say. A plot hole I've noticed in my theory is the fact that the science machine can't help you build a simple ice box, much less an entirely functioning sentient automaton with the mental capabilities of a human...

[QuQuasar]

2 hours ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

winona found the blueprint for wx in the human world so i doubt it. Maybe wagstaff has somekind of science machine in his laboratory

I believe it's canon (though I'm not 100% where I got this idea) that WX-78 is an exploration robot. Thus I always assumed Wagstaff built WX as, essentially, a mars rover for the Constant and sent him through the portal some time before being pulled in himself. 

[QuQuasar]

On 2/7/2021 at 10:02 PM, ArubaroBeefalo said:

I really hope that, if klei adds a moon boss, it will be a totally eldritch monster, even more than fw

I suspect the story of the gestalts will mirror that of the ancients: a race of beings who discovered and harnessed a mysterious energy (unlike any seen on earth), built a great civilization on the back of it and eventually overused it, leading to their extinction and their souls being corrupted into the hostile entities we see today. It seems likely that the two civilizations fought a great war when they were still alive and that they continue that fight in death.
 
My personal theory is that both moon and constant are planet-sized eldritch abominations/elder gods. The ancients dug down and established their civilization in the caves to be closer to the source of nightmare fuel, and the celestial fissures indicate that lunar energy also comes from beneath the moon's crust.

[Nino123]

On 2/6/2021 at 7:23 AM, minespatch said:

Still wondering if they'll give a follow up to Genivive, Professor Mourier, and Lucy in the future.

Isn't "mourire" (mourir = to die/rire = to laugh in french) instead of "mourier" (french familly name) ?

[minespatch]

2 minutes ago, Nino123 said:

Isn't "mourire" (mourir = to die/rire = to laugh in french) instead of "mourier" (french familly name) ?

Might have mistyped.

[Pop Guy]

5 hours ago, QuQuasar said:

I suspect the story of the gestalts will mirror that of the ancients: a race of beings who discovered and harnessed a mysterious energy (unlike any seen on earth), built a great civilization on the back of it and eventually overused it, leading to their extinction and their souls being corrupted into the hostile entities we see today. It seems likely that the two civilizations fought a great war when they were still alive and that they continue that fight in death.
 
My personal theory is that both moon and constant are planet-sized eldritch abominations/elder gods. The ancients dug down and established their civilization in the caves to be closer to the source of nightmare fuel, and the celestial fissures indicate that lunar energy also comes from beneath the moon's crust.

In reality, the predominant theory is that the ancients opened a gate that put them in connection with the dimension where "they" reside, allowing their advent on the Constant.
Furthermore, even the shadows were defined by Klei as creatures from another dimension. In short, nothing suggests that the Constant is intrinsically "alive" or corrupted by the power of the shadows.
On the Moon I have little to say, but I remember a quote from Wendy that referred to the beating of an otherworldly heart. Furthermore, the fact that an idol must be provided to the celestial portal (i.e. a fetish as a sacrifice) really suggests the existence of an alien pseudo-god residing on the moon. If then this creature IS the moon itself is pure speculation :D

[ArubaroBeefalo]

I see gestals as a part of the moon conscience. Fragmentd of s big one that shares knowledge to controllñ other living beings or defend (or hunt) from the shadows like happens in the grotto, kinda like how inmunity system cells atack things thst doesnt belong to our body.

But in the other hand, being called gestals might mean that they serve, worship, to that great being because they are part of it or because that being made them part of his self so in that way it has a miriad of slaves without self awareness 

[Wardin25]

20 hours ago, fierysage1 said:

Ah, I considered the blueprints that Winona found, and thought that, even though Wagstaff had blueprints for WX-78 in the real world, maybe he didn't actually start building WX-78 until he entered the constant. Maybe that's the reason why Wagstaff got sucked into the Constant; he wanted to build WX-78 but couldn't figure out exactly how to achieve the full functionality needed for WX-78 to be completely sentient, and Maxwell caught onto that ambition of Wagstaff's. Maybe WX-78 is a byproduct of Wagstaff's deal with Maxwell?

However, there is a good possibility that Wagstaff had a science machine in his lab, as you say. A plot hole I've noticed in my theory is the fact that the science machine can't help you build a simple ice box, much less an entirely functioning sentient automaton with the mental capabilities of a human...

I dobt it, WX was taken into the constant (likely sent by wagstaff) during the Maxwell era, while Wagstaff was taken just at the end of it. Also, if wx was created in the constant by Wagstaff, then they should be together

[a bin of cake]

22 hours ago, QuQuasar said:

I believe it's canon (though I'm not 100% where I got this idea) that WX-78 is an exploration robot

3 hours ago, Wardin25 said:

WX was taken into the constant (likely sent by wagstaff) during the Maxwell era

Wait, may I ask where you guys got this info from (QuQuasar, I know you said you're not 100% sure, haha-)? I definitely need to read up on this, because I feel like I've missed something.... some things.

I thought Wagstaff and Winona were sucked into the Constant a good 2 years before Wilson entered the Constant and freed Maxwell (I mean, I guess that could be considered "the end" of the Maxwell era, but a lot can happen in 2 years, right?). To be honest, all I really know about the timeline of DST is the timeline told from the wiki, as well as Wickerbottom and Woodie (and I guess WX-78 too, since I guess my theory has been debunked at this point) being trapped before the Voxola Factory fire transpired, from looking at Winona's bulletin board.

[Wardin25]

1 minute ago, fierysage1 said:

Wait, may I ask where you guys got this info from (QuQuasar, I know you said you're not 100% sure, haha-)? I definitely need to read up on this, because I feel like I've missed something.... some things.

I thought Wagstaff and Winona were sucked into the Constant a good 2 years before Wilson entered the Constant and freed Maxwell (I mean, I guess that could be considered "the end" of the Maxwell era, but a lot can happen in 2 years, right?). To be honest, all I really know about the timeline of DST is the timeline told from the wiki, as well as Wickerbottom and Woodie (and I guess WX-78 too, since I guess my theory has been debunked at this point) being trapped before the Voxola Factory fire transpired, from looking at Winona's bulletin board.

If I remember correctly, its because WX is connected to some automatons designed by Wagstaff, and because WX follows Wagstaff project naming codes and Wagstaff mentions not being able to wetproof his automaton, which is probably and indirect mention to WX's rain weakness

[a bin of cake]

Welp, they followed up on Witherstone. 

For those who don't know yet, in Wes' new animated short... 

Spoiler

He accidentally pushes this guy out of the way of a portal leading to the Constant while running away from a pair of crows. Then this guy returns home to what we assume to be his daughter, and we see in the bottom right corner part of what seems to say "George... Dramatic... Magical..."

From the William Carter puzzles, we can see this box actually says "George T. Witherstone: Dramatic Props and Magical Apparel."

So, we can assume this guy is Witherstone, right? And he was about to be sucked into the Constant? I mean, his surname fits the trendline for "W" initials and he seemed to cause William some adversity in the past (although that letter written in rough handwriting threatening William for the overdue payment is speculated to have been written by the little girl in Wes' short rather than Witherstone himself, which is a theory that I am on board with).

Sooo, thoughts? Questions? There's already been some discussion in the topic regarding Wes' new short if you want to learn all that I've learned from this short, but I thought I'd bring some of the discussion here, too.

[WebberMain]

I know the Moon is currently on the list,but i still want to know what lies beyond the gates of the Atrium. I really don´t like the feature of it just resetting the ruins(don´t like it lore wise).To me it seems still unfinished and i need closure of the Fuelreaver lore.I hope his (second) death wasn´t for nothing.
On the other note,

join the shadows, join T h e m 

[minespatch]

28 minutes ago, WebberMain said:

To me it seems still unfinished and i need closure of the Fuelreaver lore.I hope his (second) death wasn´t for nothing.

Same, he's a link to the Thulian royalty. We should get followups on that.

[Wardin25]

4 hours ago, WebberMain said:

I know the Moon is currently on the list,but i still want to know what lies beyond the gates of the Atrium. I really don´t like the feature of it just resetting the ruins(don´t like it lore wise).To me it seems still unfinished and i need closure of the Fuelreaver lore.I hope his (second) death wasn´t for nothing.

Well, we've already seen whats after the atrium, so unless it sends you to a dimension picked at random and the survivors were randomly sent back after the gorge, you can assume that there could be a ring of dimensions like in Phineas & Ferb across the 2nd dimension and Mumsy just set up the key to take the survivors to the constant, and now they have to find a way to use the portal in the archives to move on to another "realm"

if thats not what you meant with your question then, lol idk (also what if it is kind of a time machine and the survivors can rearrange it to go back in time)

[WebberMain]

TBH i just really want Them emerging from the Atrium xD

28 minutes ago, Wardin25 said:

if thats not what you meant with your question then, lol idk (also what if it is kind of a time machine and the survivors can rearrange it to go back in time)

 

[Falkenpelz]

What really bothers me since the Forge/Gorge trailers is, how the DST world works. There are multiple places connected through portals (e.g. the one in the Atrium), but are all of them seperate dimensions? While the Hamlet part of the world lies on a plateau above the sea, how does the Shipwrecked world fit in this concept? Is the survivors' homeworld part of this dimension-network, or is it completely seperated? What is and is not part of the Constant?

Spoiler

And to sum up the Forge/portal lore we have so far: Some dimensions, like the Forge dimension, are not under the rule of the nightmarethrone according to battlemaster Pugna. I guess that means, the shadows have no control over these places. The battlemaster also assumes the survivors are there to reunite his dimension with the throne. This seems to happen, when they win the Forge, as we can see Charlie standing next to the portal, absorbing some energy coming from it, after they are victorious. Charlie clearly wants the survivors to use the portal, since she sends a rose for her thanks, when they defeat the Fuelweaver, who wants to deactivate the portal.

Spoiler

My theory is, that we can kind of figure out, what is currently going on, if we look at the chess metaphors of DS/T: We have encountered almost the entire court of figures now: Wilson says, that he can identify with the pawn and this comparison kinda works for all survivors; they are being directed across the board and sacrificed by Charlie to do her bidings, she uses them in the Forge to fight the ruler of the other dimension and enlarge her influence for example.

The bishop, rook and knight are present as clockworks and Maxwell used to be the king of the board (the Fuelweaver probably was a king as well, but I'm unsure about counting him). The only figure we haven't met and fought face to face yet, is the queen, who is the one chesspiece with the most freedom and flexibility. My guess is, that we will soon encounter Charlie, and after that, we might finally be able to see, who Them, the "players" are. Moon and Shadow are the white and the black side of a chess game against each other, using the creatures of their world as figures.

Even the king is bound to the board, and so is the queen.

 

[Falkenpelz]

Ahhh I have to spit out my theories now or I'm losing my mind, sorry for the long text

My theory on Queen Charlie's split personality:

Spoiler

Thanks to Zeklo I'm actually pretty convinced, that the other part of Charlie's split personally is Metheus. To quickly sum up Metheus: She was most likely the female ruler of the ancient civilazition along with the Ancient Fuelweaver. While he started to worship shadows and use nightmarefuel, she continued to worship the moon, but was eventually corrupted by the shadows she was trying to fight. Similar to Prometheus she is depicted as a lightbringer and it would be ironicly fitting, if the corruption inverted this trait, so that she became the hand who steals fire now.

For unknown reasons Charlie merged into one being with a shadow creature when she was pulled into the Constant and I don't think it was some random shadow, but actually the one being that rules over them, Metheus, as Charlie gains this power herself. It would be fitting that Charlie calls herself queen afterwards since Metheus was a queen too. Maybe she was looking for a vessel to posess and Charlie just conveniently showed up, maybe there is something about Charlie that makes her especially interesting for shadows, maybe it was an accident, maybe it's just the irony, that she was afraid of the dark, I don't know. The interesting thing is, that there has to be a part Charlie in her, that sympathizes with the survivors and wants to go home, and a part Metheus, that wants to extend her influence. But they somehow found a goal they both can profit from and that can't be a good thing. My guess is, that they want to use the survivors to open a portal back home and then lead the shadows into the world.

My theory on an ending: 

Spoiler

So the story of DST might eventually end with an ultimatum: Charlie will offer them a way home, but through activating the portal, they will also let the shadows in. It might be a decision for the player, but in the canonic ending, they refuse to return, for the sake of the world, to keep it safe from the nightmares. They might rescue Charlie and weaken the shadows influence, but they will not completly defeat them, so they continue to stay in the Constant and continue their ingame struggles, forever. Also, Charlie might become a playable character.

Any thoughts on this?

[ArubaroBeefalo]

Atleast now we can assume that the white energy that metheus controls shown in the murals is moon energy

I do believe too that theory of metheus possesing charlie. Has more sense that another mind is controlling her more than an innocent girl making interdimensional evil plans. What makes me curious is that, in the ANR trailer, we can see Charlie having an interior fight, her agaisnt a evil personality converging in a 3rd neutral personality. Later, in Winonas trailer, human Charlie face and pure evil charlie face is shown again instrad of the 3rd neutral face (which we can see in the forgotten knowledge trailer)

That makes me think that they get to an agreement of colaborating. Maybe Charlie gets something if she lets the evil personality (metheus?) do her stuff. Isnt like metheus won that internal fight, the trailers shown that charlie personality still there (except for winona's trailer where we can see metheus using charlies face to bait winona which is confusing)

[Dextops]

why does wurt have horns but other merms do not? is she special in someway is this lore or am i bored and looking too far into this when this is actually just a design choice and has no further plot relevance and as i type this message i realize how stupid im being.

[minespatch]

6 minutes ago, Dextops said:

why does wurt have horns but other merms do not? is she special in someway is this lore or am i bored and looking too far into this when this is actually just a design choice and has no further plot relevance and as i type this message i realize how stupid im being.

I assume she's from a previous defeated king. She's a guard merm but never lost the guard trait when the king passed on.

[MikoFanboy]

I have a theory that Wagstaff has sat on the nightmare thorne before Maxwell 

3 hours ago, Dextops said:

why does wurt have horns but other merms do not? is she special in someway is this lore or am i bored and looking too far into this when this is actually just a design choice and has no further plot relevance and as i type this message i realize how stupid im being.

Merm Guard has horns :v

 

[minespatch]

4 minutes ago, MikoFanboy said:

Merm Guard has horns :v
 

The real question is what happened to Wurt's previous king.