Is Klei ok with griefing at their own servers?

[Tome130]

So if you ever played a Klei hosted server you have encountered them, the griefers, everything from base burners to wall spawn tenacles/spiders to pick your gears, gems, mandrakes and quit and so on.
As far as I know no mechanic has been implemented to suspend that kind of behaviour.(other then comunity mods)
So feel free to express you opinion.

[Cheggf]

Official game servers in general, regardless of what game it is, tend to have little to no moderation. Either the game is more old-school like DST, TF2, Mordhau, etc, and it lets people host their own servers and people kinda just do whatever on the official servers, or the game is more new-school like EA, Ubisoft, and Blizzard games where you only have the official servers and your options for griefing are both inherently limited by the game and punishable by suspensions from the game as a whole.

Griefing is just gonna happen, intentionally or not. If it's such a big problem to you I would recommend playing on private servers, or servers with anti-griefing mods enabled. Personally I don't think it's worth the effort for Klei to try to crack down on griefing, the world's probably gonna be reset within a day anyways.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

people troll in every online game

[blizstorm]

Why are you polling us on what klei thinks?

My guess is regulating the griefers is too expensive for a company. People burning bases may not as that clear all the time. Some could be a misclick due to torch. Then there are other form of griefing like looting which may simply be disagreement. A banlist is crated, and then you have to entertain appeals, maliciious reporting etc. Each grief report can easily cost 1 manhour to process.

A copy of the game cost less than 10 dollar, and may not even be enough to pay for 1 hour of labour in US/canada.

[Szczuku]

I mean... what are they supposed to do?

They've already gave us rollback and ban voting.

[Cheggf]

5 minutes ago, Szczuku said:

I mean... what are they supposed to do?

They've already gave us rollback and ban voting.

I think he wants Klei to either have moderators active on Klei servers or implement some sort of reporting feature to suspend those players for weeks/months/eternities instead of the 15 minute bans players can vote on.

[MondayNight]

In DST's Launch Trailer at 0:22 mark you have a prime example of Willow base-burn griefing. Take from that what you will - keeping in mind that's the game official trailer and message.

 

23 minutes ago, Szczuku said:

I mean... what are they supposed to do?

They've already gave us rollback and ban voting.

For starters KLei could add some simple lines of code prohibiting Tentacle Spawns, Fossils placements, Spider Eggs, burning of structures etc on a 5-tiles-radius around Spawn Gate par example. I saw such safety-measures on community servers, admins saying is a very simple solution. KLei: crickets. Nothing costly, time investing etc. Even more so as Spawn Gate is supposed to be a starting safe area. Again: take from that what you will.

Oh, and maybe make longer times for people being able to rejoin servers after being kicked - lets say up to 30 minutes or so.

[Tome130]

Im talking about simple code snippets that could prevent it but were 

1 minute ago, Cheggf said:

I think he wants Klei to either have moderators active on Klei servers or implement some sort of reporting feature to suspend those players for weeks/months/eternities instead of the 15 minute bans players can vote on.

wrong,
I am talking about simple code snippets that could prevent it entirely
for example ill use pseudocode
if(player day count <20 && player action = "hammer flingo")
resolve in not breaking

if(player action ==  "place wall" && player location < x distance from portal)
break;

[Well-met]

3 minutes ago, Tome130 said:

Im talking about simple code snippets that could prevent it but were 

wrong,
I am talking about simple code snippets that could prevent it entirely
for example ill use pseudocode
if(player day count <20 && player action = "hammer flingo")
resolve in not breaking

if(player action ==  "place wall" && player location < x distance from portal)
break;

cue the following 72 bug reports of "i cant hammer structures"

[Cheggf]

8 minutes ago, Tome130 said:

Im talking about simple code snippets that could prevent it but were 

wrong,
I am talking about simple code snippets that could prevent it entirely
for example ill use pseudocode
if(player day count <20 && player action = "hammer flingo")
resolve in not breaking

if(player action ==  "place wall" && player location < x distance from portal)
break;

You could have just said "Don't let people hammer flingos before they've survived 20 days, and don't let players place walls near the postern".

I don't think I've ever seen anyone wall the postern. Maybe I have once, but that's not really something people do. If anything they put spider eggs on it. Either way those don't really do anything to stop griefing and just overcomplicate things. They can't hammer the flingo (unless they play for only 2 hours), but they can still mash right click on it to stop it from working. They can't put walls next to the postern, but they can still put fossils (which are already way more effective), or they can just increase the circle's radius a little bit.

So now you've done nothing to stop griefing, but you've made it so that spawnbasers can't have decorational walls and people who pre-emptively set the flingo up but misplaced it have just ruined their base and they have to pause construction on their base for the next hour because it's preventing them from placing what they want where they want and they can't destroy it. And all of that at the cost of developer time.

[Tome130]

There are no misplaced flingos and its not the walls that are porblem its the tentacles inside

[thegreatJash]

Uh....I don't work at Klei, so I don't feel entitled to answer this question.

[MondayNight]

19 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

You could have just said "Don't let people hammer flingos before they've survived 20 days, and don't let players place walls near the postern".

I don't think I've ever seen anyone wall the postern. Maybe I have once, but that's not really something people do. If anything they put spider eggs on it. Either way those don't really do anything to stop griefing and just overcomplicate things. They can't hammer the flingo (unless they play for only 2 hours), but they can still mash right click on it to stop it from working. They can't put walls next to the postern, but they can still put fossils (which are already way more effective), or they can just increase the circle's radius a little bit.

So now you've done nothing to stop griefing, but you've made it so that spawnbasers can't have decorational walls and people who pre-emptively set the flingo up but misplaced it have just ruined their base and they have to pause construction on their base for the next hour because it's preventing them from placing what they want where they want and they can't destroy it. And all of that at the cost of developer time.

Only a tiny fraction of personal-server base builders build at gate - either ones playing alone or with fiends. Because any opened pub with some spawn-anything done by players will sooner-rather-than-later be smashed/burned to kingdom come. And you can have a WorldGen slide option for that - Spawn Protection: On/Off.

Having a 5-tiles-radius protection around gate will mean: no easy 1-2 On Tentacles reads in Florid Postern aka what certain Wicker trolls do; not enough Fossils in the entire world to surround such space with; Walls can be punched, so they can be build - in vein; not enough Spider Eggs in entire world for the first 5 in-game years to surround such space with, wall-style. And so on.

 

Really, the more I read the anti anti-griefing measures replies the more I get the feeling respective commentators might be griefers themselves. Because simple effective solutions are more than possible - at least for Spawn Gate griefing.

[Bird Up]

My feel is the public servers are there, and you just have at it. Just have some fun, and if you're not having fun, then obviously you just leave and do something else. Klei never moderates their servers, only pays for the upkeep.

 

Of course everyone cares about griefing, what you may be insinuating is that they don't care because they don't moderate, which wouldn't be true. Not moderating is their choice. Personally to me, the results are fine, and I rarely have any issues with public servers.

[1bubbainpa]

31 minutes ago, Tome130 said:

I am talking about simple code snippets that could prevent it entirely

Yeah okay.

 

Anyways, one of the things that my major has taught me is that there must be a delicate balance between user interaction and malicious prevention. If you invest too much power into malicious prevention, then the users who want to use something legitimately will feel the consequences.

In this case, the suggestion is to prevent any sort of building by the spawn portal, but what if I really want to base near the portal or set up some type of farm there, or chests to help new players?

Its unrealistic to expect Klei to have moderators for their official servers, so they opted to include the kick tool and the rollback tool as their malicious prevention, despite Don’t Starve being labeled as roguelike. This is the balance choice they went for, and while it’s not always perfect, (seriously, why can kicked players join after 15 minutes) it’s the best they can do as to not affect the main gameplay for people who want to play cooperatively.

If you don’t like the risk of grief Wes burning down your base, then try joining a community group with moderators.

[Mike23Ua]

Yeah uhm.. while Anti-Griefing measures could be made: I mean you kinda got EXACTLY what you paid for..

Source in Link 

https://www.klei.com/games/dont-starve-together

The games own official product description says play in private or be prepared for Chaos.

Off-Topic RDO example Below

Spoiler

Every day when I try to play Red Dead Online Theres this group of players who join my lobbies and intentionally try to interfere in my game by blowing me up while I’m trying to peacefully fish or something.. this behavior is actually Reportable directly to Microsoft because what they are doing is hindering my own personal enjoyment of playing the game: But the moment you make a game multiplayer you increase your chances of running into these types of bad behavior players: Now I’m generally a Nice guy so I have not yet reported these people who mess with my RDO experience because I wouldn’t want to be the cause of why someone else couldn’t enjoy their game (because I got them banned) that’s just how my MIND works and even though what they’re doing should be highly disapproved of- It shouldn’t be enough to warrant them not being able to play the product they paid for. If you don’t respond to their actions and continue to just slowly walk even if they’ve thrown a Molotov at your feet and your on fire, they will eventually get bored and go away- because people who play like that WANT you to get Angry, they WANT you to cuss them out and fight back.. and when they don’t get that- they realize they’re wasting yours and their time and they move on.

You can’t really try to beg Klei to uphold some guidelines when their own product description pretty much warns you in advance: play private or be ready for anything. It would just be a waste of Klei’s time they could be doing ANYTHING else to try and maintain grieving.

[Cheggf]

13 minutes ago, x0-VERSUS-1y said:

Only a tiny fraction of personal-server base builders build at gate - either ones playing alone or with fiends. Because any opened pub with some spawn-anything done by players will sooner-rather-than-later be smashed/burned to kingdom come.

So because the spawn base is going to be griefed anyway they just shouldn't have the option to make one at all? What kind of sense does that make?

13 minutes ago, x0-VERSUS-1y said:

And you can have a WorldGen slide option for that - Spawn Protection: On/Off.

Which is pointless because you can't change the worldgen options on Klei servers.

13 minutes ago, x0-VERSUS-1y said:

Really, the more I read the anti anti-griefing measures replies the more I get the feeling respective commentators might be griefers themselves. Because simple effective solutions are more than possible.

Because I don't think walls, which I have not once seen be used to grief spawn, which can be punched down with no resources, should be restricted from being placed at the spawn because it would legitimately hinder actual players who I have several times seen create a spawn base, that makes me look like a griefer? You being so immediately accusatory makes it look like you're a griefer yourself, projecting it onto others.

[Bird Up]

11 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

You being so immediately accusatory makes it look like you're a griefer yourself, projecting it onto others.

there's an imposter in this thread 

 

[Mike23Ua]

Actually a simpler already existing solution that would prevent spawn from grieving is if people spawned onto the map Randomly from ANYWHERE (you can already do this by playing Wilderness Mode) and during the few seconds they spawn in they are invincible to damage as can walk through any potential walls or barriers players have set up.

But say If Klei were to create said circle of protection that players couldn’t place X structure at Y location: That won’t solve ANYTHING because griefers will just go to exactly where that protective circle Ends ... and then build their wall AROUND the Circle Klei wasted time to do anyway.

In other words: It’s wasting precious development time they can be doing awesome content by trying to counter something that no matter what they do to prevent, people malicious enough will come up with workarounds for.

[ZTheNecromancer]

The wording in this poll (And some of the thread) makes me really wanna hit someone right now.

It's gonna happen in every game and practically any form of entertainment you have to play with friends, it's not a problem with the devs or the game itself. It's a people problem.

[MondayNight]

40 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

So because the spawn base is going to be griefed anyway they just shouldn't have the option to make one at all? What kind of sense does that make?

Which is pointless because you can't change the worldgen options on Klei servers.

I have almost 9k hours of DST and over half of that time was spent on KLei official server - yes, I know, am a sucker for punishment. Do you know how many spawn bases I've seen in those pubs that have successfully survived past.. a season at most? 0. Lemme spell that: ZERO. As a wonderful contrast lemme mention this next thing as well: for some time now am playing on a friend's server that's open to public; out of courtesy I've build at spawn a Firepit, Endo pit, Lightning Rod, 1 Crock Pot and an walled area (1 interior Moon Walls row, 1 exterior Rock Walls row) containing Moon Orb. There doesn't pass 1 season in which a Spider Egg isn't placed in Spawn after some random Webber logs in, puts it there, leaves; or the damn Pot doesn't get burned by a random Willow doing the same for 10s. It's so ridiculous that at some point a certain player sat there at spawn smacking the walls (Moon ones!!!) till they finally accessed Orb, took it, went a bit further and de-logged. This happening on a personal server with owner right there, able to kick/ban, and rollback at any moment. And you're telling me people successfully go for KLei Servers - totally un-moderated - spawn base?!

Not to mention my proposal was strictly related to:

Quote

...prohibiting Tentacle Spawns, Fossils placements, Spider Eggs, burning of structures etc on a 5-tiles-radius around Spawn Gate..

Not being unable to build structures in/around gate like Science Machine, Chests, Firepit etc.

 

40 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

Because I don't think walls, which I have not once seen be used to grief spawn, which can be punched down with no resources, should be restricted from being placed at the spawn because it would legitimately hinder actual players who I have several times seen create a spawn base, that makes me look like a griefer? You being so immediately accusatory makes it look like you're a griefer yourself, projecting it onto others.

Is not I who pointed at walls for prohibition - "Walls can be punched, so they can be build - in vein" - but to all the rest of shenanigans previously mentioned in my posts above, that have no place at spawn anyway. Of course I suspect people when I see them so vehemently denying any-and-all proposed measures - viable ones mind you - that could limit at least Florid Postern griefing for starters.

Also yes, you clearly caught me, am totally a griefer. That's why I advocate for years now against griefing and came on these forums in first instance because of the early 2017 server-resetting trolling problem at that date - to inquire and signal it. Because am totally a self-hating griefer wanting trolling be stopped/limited

[bruhmoment23]

You don't have to play on a klei offical server in order to meet these sorts of people obviously. Hell, new players themselves usually take whatever they find, including rummaging through chests just because they find something "flashy". While the rollback system could use a few tweaks and adding some sorts of "grefing" preventing measurements like blocking a certain space of florid postern to be fully disabled from building, placing or spawning things within that zone wouldn't hurt, I personally don't think this is much of an overgrowing issue since griefers are basically guarenteed to stop by every now and then in a multiplayer game like this. In the end, it is what it is, best thing to do is kick/rollback before any major damage comes up from these people or just simply change servers.

[FairyInABottle]

1 hour ago, Szczuku said:

I mean... what are they supposed to do?

They've already gave us rollback and ban voting.

For starters, rollback to two different points (midnight and noon) so griefers can't burn in the middle of the night. Bans that actually ban and can't be gotten around by name changes. Auto bans for slurs. Forced drop of non building resources (twigs, logs) and tools on leaving so people can't take 40 berry bushes or 10 gears with them.

32 minutes ago, ZeeDragon said:

The wording in this poll (And some of the thread) makes me really wanna hit someone right now.

It's gonna happen in every game and practically any form of entertainment you have to play with friends, it's not a problem with the devs or the game itself. It's a people problem.

It's disingenuous to suggest it happens the same amount in every game and measures can't or shouldn't be taken to do something about it.

[Mike23Ua]

Okay just to prove a point: let’s pretend Klei made a starting Island.. and on that island resources can be gathered but will shortly grow back and nothing at all can be built or placed on the starting island. Players can then jump into a sickly wormhole and NEVER be able return to the safe area of the game again.

If this was to happen.. a grieving player would just jump through the wormhole and then immediately wall it off and even though Klei dedicated AN ENTIRE ISLAND to Anti-Grieving Measures.. the people who are determined to be mischievous are just going to go right outside of the area they can’t grief within and then Wall that entire grief protective zone off..

Its simply a constant losing battle to try to counter grief players.. which is probably why Klei pays it little (if any) attention

[Tome130]

I mean why is Klei then fixing item duplication glitch?
Destroying items is OK, duping them is not?